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Old 11/26/11, 11:39 AM   #166
PFCchen
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Illidan
currently in WOL a BM hunter named Iconoclast is #1 DPS on 10 man heroic Baleroc 50k, heroic domo 90k and heroic rag 40k, on both of the fights his pet(wolf) is doing about twice as much as the hunter did, i compared some BM hunters who are doing 30k dps on 10 man heroics, the hunter usually about 3% more than his pet does. i also looked up the dps for BM hunter on 25 man heroic baleroc, seems like this is pretty solid. So my ilvl378 BM is doing 24kdps on heroic baleroc, so what am i missing here?

sorry about my bad english and this might be off topic, but i figure this would be the best place for me to find the answer

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Old 11/26/11, 12:50 PM   #167
Trinilis
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Kel'Thuzad
they are using a exploit pet found in AQ 40 raid dungeon

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Old 11/26/11, 1:46 PM   #168
Freetard
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Trinilis View Post
they are using a exploit pet found in AQ 40 raid dungeon
If the hunter in question uses a wolf, this cannot be the case. The AQ40 exploit-pet is a silithid.

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Old 11/26/11, 2:46 PM   #169
Glatzel
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Hunter
 
Malorne (EU)
Originally Posted by Freetard View Post
If the hunter in question uses a wolf, this cannot be the case. The AQ40 exploit-pet is a silithid.
I think he just called his pet "Wolf". When i had a look at why the bm hunters did such a lot of dps they all ( including Iconoclast) used a silithid.
And even if he really used a special wolf, there is no other way than bugusing to do this much dps.

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Old 11/26/11, 4:02 PM   #170
PFCchen
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Illidan
Looking at his pet's damage, there is wolverine bite, so i assume is a wolf

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Old 11/26/11, 4:57 PM   #171
pichuca
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Hunter
 
Dun Modr (EU)
Wolverine bite is a cunning pet talent. Also there are no cunning wolfs.

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Old 11/29/11, 1:33 PM   #172
Asmorano
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
<Wet>
Blackwing Lair
bugged bugs

I can clarify the Vengeance buff from personal experience. I tamed one of the boss bugs for cosmetic appearance and was shocked when my dps went up something like 8-10K.

Vem enrages Lord Kri and Princess Yauj when you kill him, so taming them (post Vem) gives you a tenacity pet with 200% physical damage and 250% attack speed for 10 minutes, or until it gets killed.

The boss bugs all respawn when you reset the fight, so you can carry 50 minutes worth of crazy bug by using all of your pet slots.

Obviously, a mechanic like this is an EXPLOIT, and you risk suspension or a ban for using it. Don't feel jealous of the guys posting 50K logs since they're essentially cheating.

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Old 12/02/11, 9:56 AM   #173
Nerec
Von Kaiser
 
Nerec's Avatar
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mannoroth (EU)
I think BM needs some love again. I have to / wanted play BM and since our mages respecced to fire I'm the one who brings 3% (10 man). So, my interest in BM is everyday growing.

The first BM hard plateau is 3 Cobra Shots, 1 Arcane Shot and 1 Kill Command, in 6 seconds. This requires a Cobra Shot cast time of 1.333 seconds; 17.403% haste; 2,229 haste rating.

With the high haste already on the gear this tier, it is worth reforging out of crit to reach this plateau? Did already someone math for it and could provide / show the post for this?

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Old 12/02/11, 1:55 PM   #174
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Seeing as Arcane Shot scales off of 4.83% of our RAP and Cobra Shot only scales off of 1.7% RAP, we want to dump any extra GCD's into Arcane Shot, not Cobra. The hard plateau doesn't exist where we have 3 CoS, 1 AS and 1 KC within a cycle*, but where we can fit 2 AS, 2 CoS, 1 KC into a cycle. With the 2t13 bonus that becomes easier, as we do not, in practice, have to have a sustainable focusregen for such a cycle. We do not have any mechanics that require us to stick to a specific rotation, so something like; KC, CoS, CoS, CoS, KC, CoS, AS, AS, AS, (AS), KC is equally viable.
In other words, the 2t13 bonus is great, but doesn't require any new thinking, as we still want to dump any excesss focus into AS - we really only need 1 CoS every ~15-21 seconds to keep up Serpent Sting - apart from that it is only to generate focus when we don't have enough for AS and KC on CD.

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Old 12/03/11, 9:21 AM   #175
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
The guide is now updated for 4.3

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Old 12/04/11, 3:09 PM   #176
Striken7
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Mannoroth
The current priority has Kill Shot below Kill Command, as in if both are available use Kill Command first. Is this your intention? Kill Shot is the higher damage option based on all my numbers and I'm wondering if I've been incorrectly delaying KC when KS is available.

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Old 12/05/11, 7:41 AM   #177
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Your question has led me to do a number of different calculations on FemaleDwarf. While logically we should be able to define either KC or KS as the priority choice between the 2, no matter how I move them about (while maintaining the rets of the relative priority) I see 0 change in dps between KC>KS and KS>KC - even when switching around BW so its in between KS and KC (KS>BW>KC), so simulations show that it doesn't matter.

Now for the practical and logical approach;
Using the results from a t13 normal equipped raider (all 5 tier pieces), Femaledwarf reports that I have 35,284 effective RAP on my target. KC damage is (849 + 51.6%RAP) * Mastery. KS is 150% weapondamage + 543 + 45%RAP so the differences between the 2 is (excluding mastery) 303 + 6.6%RAP in favor of KC versus 150% weapondamage.
For a weapon like [Vishanka, Jaws of the Earth] the weapon damage is 2629.76 + RAP/14*2.8 or 20%RAP. It then becomes 303 + 6.6%RAP versus 2629.76 + 20%RAP, or in other words Kill shot is the clear winner here.
Now the thing that is most likely playing in to even it out so completely is the differing cooldowns, and what you replace. If you prioritize KC>KS then KS is still fired as often as possible (more or less) by pushing out Arcane Shots (though in reality it pushes out Cobra Shots, which are even lower on the damage chain, since we don't need to use CoS to gain focus we haven't used), while if we prioritize KS>KC then we push KC by 2 seconds, or a third of the CD, thus costing us 1 full KC every 3rd time we do so, or in sim terms, costing us a third of a KC.
That 1/3*KC is more or less exactly the gain of KS>KC - which is the reasoning I used orignally to prioritise KC>KS.

In summation to that, you can do it either way, its more or les a wash theoretically speaking, though I will retain the KC>KS priority, as that will, in practice, more likely allow more of both and pushes CoS instead of KC, allowing more instants.

Also, while doing these iterations I have looked at the relative values of secondary stats, and can confirm that, regardless of the projected values (I'm looking at haste specifically) the priority is
Hit (to cap) >> Crit > Mastery >> Haste
Even while the tool is valuing haste higher than crit and mastery, and mastery at the bottom, reforging haste to mastery on a single item at a time consistently provides a dps increase. This, of course, goes very nicely with the priority, as we are pushing the only casttime shot we use (CoS) to the very bottom at all times, and with 2t13, we will use it even less, thus gaining almost no value from haste apart from the autoshot increase.

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Old 12/05/11, 4:14 PM   #178
NextOne
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Throk'Feroth (EU)
4.3 Updates:

The Focus Fire description has a mistake, the duration is now 20s up from 15s.

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Old 12/06/11, 7:54 AM   #179
Nooska
King Hippo
 
Nooska's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by NextOne View Post
4.3 Updates:

The Focus Fire description has a mistake, the duration is now 20s up from 15s.
Thank you, I missed that, it is now updated.

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Old 12/06/11, 10:59 AM   #180
molson
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Aegwynn
Originally Posted by Nooska View Post
Also, while doing these iterations I have looked at the relative values of secondary stats, and can confirm that, regardless of the projected values (I'm looking at haste specifically) the priority is
Hit (to cap) >> Crit > Mastery >> Haste
Even while the tool is valuing haste higher than crit and mastery, and mastery at the bottom, reforging haste to mastery on a single item at a time consistently provides a dps increase. This, of course, goes very nicely with the priority, as we are pushing the only casttime shot we use (CoS) to the very bottom at all times, and with 2t13, we will use it even less, thus gaining almost no value from haste apart from the autoshot increase.
Confirming that I'm seeing the same results with my character, but only after I switch out legs to gain 2t13 (although the 2t13 effect is not listed under "Gear Bonuses"). Although Haste is valued over Mastery by almost a 3:1 ratio, reforging from Haste to Mastery consistently provides a DPS increase according to the tool. As you noted, this makes sense given that our only cast time shot is CoS, and with 2t13, it will see a large reduction in casts.

I'm curious then, as to why I see a large DPS loss with the tool when switching from 3/3 Pathing to 1/3 Pathing + 2/2 Imp Serpent Sting, with the Serpent Sting glyph replacing Kill Shot. I found this setup through the Paragon website, and with the value of haste plummeting for BM with 2t13, it would seem like a logical conclusion that we could move the points in Pathing elsewhere for a DPS gain. Any ideas why this does not seem to be the case?

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