What I didn't mention (and what you appear to be overlooking) is Focus Fire, which grants us a built in 15% haste giving us a lot of buffer in the rotation and making 3 CoS possible between KC if there isn't enough focus for an Arcane.
I quite understand the "we can't cast 1 AS per rotation", I was making the same case in beta, and haven't been able to on a dummy either. In a real raid situation - Argaloth is where I've gotten to so far - it hasn't been a problem (though I have to admit I have done more encounters as SV due to BM buffs being covered and SV doing higher damage). Between Cobra Strikes and Invigoration, coupled with Killing Streak and Fervor I have yet to be unable to use an Arcane Shot except sometimes right after BW (teh times where fervor is on CD from last BW for example) where I dump all my focus on the cheap shots - but at that time I've made up for them during BW. Again Focus Fire keeps the Cobra Shots at a casting time that means I can do 3 between KC do build up my focus again - if I recall correctly, its 1 rotation of KC, 3x CoS after dumping focus on BW.
The place where its gets hairy, is whenBW runs out if you keep dumping focus for 1-2 seconds - those 1 or 2 arcane shots can kill the focus generation, but thats a player error (one I am still prone to making) and one thing thats painfully obvious with focus compared to the previous mana system, is that it is very very unforgiving on mistakes untill you get back to your rotational equilibrium.

It seems to me the large focus pool afforded BM allows us to be able to alternatively spam cobra shot (without capping focus) or spam arcane shot (starting from a high amount of focus that you've pooled) to take advantage of the best times for either. Namely, I am thinking of Sic' Em! and Cobra Strikes. For instance, if you have Cobra Strikes charge(s) up and Sic' Em! up you will want to start spamming cobra shot to pool enough focus so that when they fall off you can dump several arcane shots in quick succession to try proc both of those. If you were to instead dump focus on a set rotation or after a relatively small amount of focus is pooled, you risk using arcane shot when you are already have both of those procced, or having to cast cobra shot when neither of them are procced. Obviously, keeping enough focus to use Kill Command on CD probably takes preference over all of this.
e: pet focus in general could also be a factor, because GftT procs will be higher while casting arcane shots than cobra shots.

I haven't done any math on this yes, so my questions would be:
*Are uptime on Cobra Strikes and/or Sic' Em! so high that micro managing this is moot or minimal?
*Which is more important or perhaps more practical to watch: Cobra Strikes, Sic Em!, or pet focus (dumping AS to fish for GftT procs to allow Wild Hunt to do its thing)?
*How effective would this be in actual practice?

e: typo

* I'll assume the Cobra Shots is a typo and should be Cobra Strikes (bad design with those 2 names). CoSt isn't something I would fish for. Experience from my frost mage which has the same basic 15% chance to proc a free (frost)fireball from any sepll I cast (in practise) apart from frostfirebolt, the 15% chance is streaky and very unpredictable.
Sic'Em procs are easier to "farm", but also easier to waste since they don't stack, so again I wouldn't use AS spam to get it (quite apart from that I don't have sic'em in my own setup currently).
* None of the mentioned are, in my opinion, important to watch, and none of them are practical either as we have no control over how they are used. CoSt's main benefit is the forcing of 2 crit strikes by the pet, returning 6 focus on the next 2 pet basic attacks. Sic'Em doesn't proc an effect that we can use on anything, so watching for it isn't important. Finally pet focus - this is perhaps the most interesting one because we do have a small influence on this with Fervor - however, I would advocate that Fervor should be used when the hnter needs the 50 focus, regardless of the pets needs - best use is when both pet and hunter need it, but whether the pet need it or not is secondary.
* Last point, I think it would be very ineffectual in practice. Going from 110 focus we start out with a KC for 40 focus, that leaves 70 focus, enough for 3 Arcane shots (no focus regen factored in yet) bottoming out at 4 focus. This all takes 4 seconds worth of GCD for a base regen of 16 focus - half a second from firing off one more AS which would take us to 5.5 seconds and end us up at 2 focus when KC comes off CD. Instead of the last AS we could use Fervor and one more arcane (provided perfect reflexes) and not lose the KC (fervor taking us to 70 focus, regenning 4 more base, and the Arcane taking us down to 52, again regenning 4, for a total of 56 when KC becomes available). After doing 1 rotation of this we would play catchup with CoS.
The main reason I don't want to suggest the spam a / spam b thing is that we will only gain Arcane shots (and their damage) if we waste less focus over the fight in this situation (since focus is the resource thats relevant), and spamming cobra shots alternating arcane shots is more likely to cap and overcap focus that to intersperse the arcanes. I do advocate using as many arcanes as possible, but the nature of the procs off arcane are based off the pets basic attacks, so there is a 3/6 second cooldown on the usefulness of said procs.

All the above is for the normal rotation. Under BW (or any focus regenerating aura, if such is encountered) spam arcane - not due to the procs, but due to the higher damage per gcd - even sub gcd casttime cobra shots are worse damage (ignoring above 80% health targets with CA) per gcd. During external haste cooldowns or rapid fire, stick to the normal rotation, but stick in some extra arcane shots whenever possible.

I know parses for raiding have been scarce as BM. My 10 man raid composition allows me to experiment a little bit as BM because we raid with 2 hunters (1 other than myself). For this weeks raid (and a few fights last week) I raided as Beast Master for 6/7 fights (Baradin's Hold, Black Wing Decent minus Magmaw for AoE reasons), ranking on WoL top 4 on all of them for Beast Master hunters. This clearly shows the lack of BM hunters out there due to the high damage output of Survival.

A few tips I have for learning the 'BM' rotation:

• Save Focus Fire while BW is up. Your pet has 30% IAS as compared to your 15%. Consider the previously mentioned downsides as well.

• I use a Ravager for 4% Physical for the raid, and with that comes the talent Feeding Frenzy. If around 40-36%, I try to save BW during that time as well, to get that little bit extra damage out of my pet. Depending on the fight, you can typically get 1 more BW cast after this before the bosses death. Most notably tonight was for Nefarion. I don't have the math calculated for this, but it is a little unverified tip.

• Fervor is on the GCD, so it eats up a GCD during your BW AS/KC spam. I try to use this before my first BW, then it does not line up with BW CD for a bit of time.

• Try to time your BW to get 2 KC's during it. With my Ravager, I am an 'execute' class, and KC is effected by the above linked talent.

These are just a few things that I think about during a raid as BM. A lot of it is trying to get the most damage out of your Bestial Wrath

1-11-11 Beast Master Raiding I was survival for the H Halfus attempts and for Magmaw. My rotations/priorities are a little rusty, as I have healed for the past 6 years (since day 1), and this is the first time playing a pure DPS class outside of five mans, so I tend to pay attention to Grid over Focus/procs. This is my 2nd raid as BM, as I did a few fights last week as BM. I post these hoping that maybe you can help get a feel for shot counts / shot damages in a raid setting.

I have a question that doesn't seem to be asked often, and I get unclear answers to. Does Careful Aim talent make Cobra Shot spammable during the first 20% of a fight over using arcane shot? Obviously haste effects the damage of CoS more than AS, so is there a point where 100% crit to cobra > 40% crit arcane shot. It is hard to get clear results on a target dummy as raid buffs greatly change our damage, as the two shots scale differently.

I will parse my log better (as I get more free time) and begin to make more specific calculations. This post is to show how I raid as BM, and the logs to devour to possibly help develop mathematical data we can use to test a lot of this theory crafting and unanswered questions we have.

Just one thing. Haste affects pet to? (from first post, 100%) Either I'm still drunk or I don't get it. You only use 60% portion of damage (hunter) for haste calc not 100% (hunter+pet)?

Not all the hunters damage is increased by haste - Kill Command, Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting are not affected by haste.

Yes I get that.

40% damage = pet attacks (modified by mastery and white also by haste)
60% damage = our white, and hasted shots (modified by haste)

What I'm asking is: How can you compare haste to mastery if you skip the part where haste also modifies pet, not just our hasted attacks?

What seemed strange(wrong) to me was that, while comparing haste and mastery, technophebe didn't account for haste to benefit hunter and pet(but just hunter). Thus lowering value of haste. Witch would indicate that I want to put bigger value on haste.

Plus haste influences far to many things to do it simple, faster pet frenzy stacks, more hunter focus trough invigoration, more pet focus trough Go for the Throat etc.. But that's not what got my attention initially.

Of those mentioned, only GftT is affected by haste. Pet frenzy stacks and invigoration are predicated on pet basic attacks, which have a hard cooldown of 3 seconds. GftT is better served by crit than by haste, because 1% more crit means 1% more GftT procs (out of all the shost, crit or hit), while 1% haste just means 1% more shots, or crit percentage percentage more GftT procs (at 20% crit its 0.2% more GftT per 1% haste). All the things you mention are predicated, and vastly better served by, crit, not haste.

To be fair, Sapa (or anyone else) wasn't suggesting that haste was better than crit, so there's no reason to hammer home the point that GftT is better served by crit than the other stats. As between haste and mastery, haste has some effect on GftT and mastery has absolutely none, so it makes sense to factor that in when comparing mastery vs. haste.

Frenzy and Invigoration are unaffected by either, as you mentioned. (If haste increases pet regen then there is an outside possibility that it could lead to more frenzy stacks if for some reason the pet doesn't have enough focus to use it on cooldown, but that probably wouldn't be worth modeling even if true).

Yes, as BM you care differently about haste than as SV. As SV you cannot use Arcane Shot every rotation because of focus starvation. As BM that problem doesn't exist in practice. As BM you don't really want to delay KC, so that gives you a 6 second rotation. And Arcane Shot does more damage than a Cobra Shot and scales better from RAP, so you will never get to a point where CoS becomes better than AS if you can spare the focus. These things taken together means you want to cast 1 Arcane Shot per rotation, leaving 4 seconds to cast CoS. To fit in an extra Cobra Shot you need enough haste to get the casttime down to 1.33(...) equaling a total of 50% haste. With full FF, 3 points in pathing, WF/HP/IT that translates to 1937 hasterating without 4t11 - and ~500 hasterating with 4t11 (provided Female Dwarf is modelling 4t11 correctly, which I don't know to a certainty as of this moment). At this point you will have squeezed 1 more CoS into your 6 second rotation.
The next question is, will 1937 (or ~500) rating points give more damage than 1 additional CoS per 6 second rotation if spent on crit or mastery? I will look at crit because that is the highest rated secondary stat.
I will use the same profile I used for the stat weightings in the first post; It isn't born with 4t11 so it will do nicely for the best case scenario for haste adding 1 more CoS. I won't subtract any points in the custom adjustment to avoid hitting any lower breakpoints for any stat influencing the result, and I will add rating to hit 1940 to be sure there aren't any rounding 'errors' causing the 3rd CoS to not get in.
As the set is born with / left with 689 hasterating, I will hand add 1251 rating points to haste and then to crit.

1) Adding 1251 Haste rating = 22,597.58 DPS (13,324.24 hunter, 9,273.34 pet). It also gives a stat weight of 0.476 dps per haste point and 0.878 dps per crit point.
2) Adding 1251 Crit rating = 22,512.82 DPS (13,379.08 hunter, 9,133.74 pet). this gives a stat weighting of 0.505 dps per haste point and 0.833 dps per crit point.
Seeing that the hunters dps increased and the pets decreased when using crit instead of haste, I feel I need to try mastery as well.
3) Adding 1251 Mastery rating = 22,179.06 DPS (12,729.14 hunter, 9,449.92 pet). Clearly mastery isn't better than crit or haste when adding the block of rating.

Drawing a conclusion, if you could get to the magic haste number in one go, it would be better than having it all as crit, though it is only a 0.4% increase in dps over the crit, so I will stick with the advice of stacking crit as secondary stat and ignoring haste / reforging it to crit>mastery because crit benefits you every point, haste does not. The very very slight increase in value of haste when using this large a block and seeing no real benefit over the baked in haste at lower amounts of hasterating means that haste will mostly be wasted. During RF with the above buffs (still not 4t11) CoS will be at 1 second casttime and you can fit in 3-4 per rotation during RF (3 being a rotation with 2 AS due to increased focus regen allowing for it). During BL it will reduce the casting time to slightly over 1 second, allowing for the same 3-4 CoS with a very slight delaying of KC.

4t11 gives 1 more CoS automatically at the inborn haste amount of an ilvl 372 set (or ~400 dps / 2% increase from just the setbonus), and can easily do it with an ilvl 359 set, where it will propably be easy to just not reforge all the haste to hit the magic number.