This post provides the detailed shot rotation information for the Kill Shot with Termination Phase from the MM guide. To make the MM guide shorter and since this information was not needed in the guide and is just useful (to some people) additional information, I am providing it in this separate post referenced from the MM guide instead. For convenience, I am leaving the headers as they would exist in the guide.

Note that the pertinent shot information concerning focus cost and cast times are the same as provided in the KS phase section with the exception that the SS focus generated is 6 focus greater.

 

Contents

16.5.5.2.1 Kill Shot Phase With Termination Unhasted 1.16.5.5.2.1.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term Unhasted 1.26.5.5.2.1.2 12.93% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term Unhasted 26.5.5.2.2 Kill Shot Phase with Termination During Rapid Fires 2.16.5.5.2.2.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term During RF 2.1.16.5.4.2.2.1.1 CS Glyph for KS Phase During RF at 5.4% Haste 2.1.26.5.5.2.2.1.2 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste 2.1.36.5.5.2.2.1.3 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste 2.1.46.5.5.2.2.1.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste 2.26.5.5.2.2.2 12.93% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term During RF 2.2.16.5.5.2.2.2.1 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste 2.2.26.5.5.2.2.2.2 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste 2.2.36.5.5.2.2.2.3 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste 2.2.46.5.5.2.2.2.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste 36.5.5.2.3 Kill Shot Phase with Term During Bloodlust 3.16.5.5.2.3.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase During BL 3.1.16.5.5.2.3.1.1 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste 3.1.26.5.5.2.3.1.2 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste 3.1.36.5.5.2.3.1.3 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste 3.1.46.5.5.2.3.1.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste 3.26.5.5.2.3.2 12.93% Haste Level for Kill Shot Phase with Term During BL 3.2.16.5.5.2.3.2.1 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste 3.2.26.5.5.2.3.2.2 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste 3.2.36.5.5.2.3.2.3 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste 3.2.46.5.5.2.3.2.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste

[top]6.5.5.2.1 Kill Shot Phase With Termination Unhasted

There are two main questions to explore on whether Termination helps during the KS phase. These are:
1) Whether the additional focus generated is enough to be able to perform an extra focus dump or to eliminate an extra SS
2) Is the additional focus generated over 2 SSs enough to make the ISS downtime cycles worthwhile.

[top]6.5.5.2.1.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term Unhasted

Concerning the question on whether the extra focus generated by Termination makes casting an extra focus dump worthwhile during this phase, the answer is no. The reason is that the focus dump is AS and does considerably less damage than CS and noticeably less than KS. Hence, replacing a KS with the AS or extending the cycle to add in the additional AS reduces DPS.

Since the unhasted KS cycles at this haste level all have the minimum 4 SSs, there are no extra SSs that can be eliminated due to the extra focus from Termination.

Concerning the ISS downtime cycles, I definitely do not recommend them in the AI and RF glyph cases for similar reasons as expressed in the Termination section. First, the ISS downtime cycles for these glyphs lose over 58 focus per cycle and require over 2.5 normal cycles to regain the lost focus. Although these averaged cycles potentially can gain 330 DPS from the specials, there is also all of the non-special DPS loses as discussed previously.

I also do not recommend the ISS downtime cycle for the KS glyph case for similar reasons as for the AI and RF glyphs. Although the extra KS makes the case slightly better by about 4 concerning focus costs, it also has about 100 less DPS to gain on average.

Although I do not recommend it, the ISS downtime cycle may be a gain for some people using the CS glyph since the shorter CS CD results in lower ISS downtime. The focus loss for the CS glyph is still about 54 focus but only requires about 1.33 standard cycles to counteract the focus loss. In addition, this case also has a higher DPS gain potential at just over 500 DPS.

[top]6.5.5.2.1.2 12.93% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term Unhasted

At this higher haste level, Termination is more useful during the KS phase for all the glyph cases except for the CS glyph.

For the AI and RF glyph cases, the KS phase cycles had 0.4s of deadtime with no good way to utilize that deadtime. Termination provides enough additional focus over the 4 SSs to eliminate that deadtime by firing an extra AS. This does delay the CS cycle by 0.6s; however, it is worth it since it increases DPS by about 450 while still being focus positive. I do not recommend the ISS downtime cycles here since they only increase special DPS by potential of 100 DPS, which is certainly less that the losses in non-special DPS.

For the KS glyph case, the benefits of Termination are the same as for the AI and RF glyphs with being able to perform an additional AS. The DPS gain is a little smaller at just over 400 DPS and even more focus is wasted. I also do not recommend the ISS downtime cycle since it still goes way negative at -53 focus and only potentially gains less than 300 DPS from the specials, which may not counteract the DPS loss in the non-specials.

For the CS glyph case, Termination provides no benefit during the KS phase. This is because the non-Termination rotation was already performing the extra AS and did not have any deadtime. I also do not recommend the ISS downtime cycle since it only potentially increases special DPS by about 50, which is more than lost with the loss of the non-special DPS.

[top]6.5.5.2.2 Kill Shot Phase with Termination During Rapid Fires

For all glyphs, Termination helps both haste cases during the KS phase. This is because the reasons detailed in the Termination section.

Since this guide is long enough already and I believe you all understand the shot information by now, that I will just summarize the information in this section.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term During RF

[top]6.5.4.2.2.1.1 CS Glyph for KS Phase During RF at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.95s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.4s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 3 per cycle and 8 over the RF.

Termination increases DPS by about 1100.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.1.2 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case except for focus consumption:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.95s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.4s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 2 per cycle and 5 over the RF.

Termination increases DPS by about 1100.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.1.3 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.35s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 4 per cycle and 14 over the RF.

Termination increases DPS by about 950.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.1.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case, except that it includes the second KS:

CS-KSx2-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 11.95s on non-MMM AI cycles and 11.4s on MMM AI cycles. Average net focus is positive by a good amount.

Termination increases DPS by about 800.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.2 12.93% Haste Level for KS Phase with Term During RF

[top]6.5.5.2.2.2.1 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.35s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 4 per cycle and 14 over the RF.

Termination increases DPS by about 1100.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.2.2 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case except for focus consumption:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.35s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus is barely positive each cycle.

Termination increases DPS by about 1500.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.2.3 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.06s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 3 per cycle and 8 over the RF.

Termination increases DPS by about 900.

[top]6.5.5.2.2.2.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During RF at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is similar to the CS case, except that it includes the second KS:

CS-KSx2-AIx3-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 11.35s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average net focus is positive by a good amount.

Termination increases DPS by about 800.

[top]6.5.5.2.3 Kill Shot Phase with Term During Bloodlust

[top]6.5.5.2.3.1 5.4% Haste Level for KS Phase During BL

[top]6.5.5.2.3.1.1 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx5 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI and a 6th SS on MMM AI proc cycles

The cycle takes 12.79s on non-MMM AI cycles and 13.27s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 2 per cycle and 8 over the BL.

Termination increases DPS by about 1000.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.1.2 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste
Exact same as for RF glyph.

Termination increases DPS by about 1600.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.1.3 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste
Exact same as for RF glyph, except that focus consumption is positive.

Termination increases DPS by about 1000.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.1.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 5.4% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KSx2-AIx2-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.96s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.29s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 1 per cycle and 3 over the BL.

Termination increases DPS by about 1000.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.2 12.93% Haste Level for Kill Shot Phase with Term During BL

[top]6.5.5.2.3.2.1 RF Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KS-AIx3-SSx5 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI and a 6th SS on MMM AI proc cycles

The cycle takes 12.07s on non-MMM AI cycles and 12.58s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 1 per cycle and 5 over the BL.

Termination increases DPS by about 1150.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.2.2 CS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KS-AIx2-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 9.43s on non-MMM AI cycles and 9s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus loss is about 2 per cycle and 10 over the BL.

Termination increases DPS by about 900.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.2.3 AI Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste
The rotation is the same as for the RF glyph except with slight positive focus.

Termination increases DPS by about 1150.

[top]6.5.5.2.3.2.4 KS Glyph for KS Phase with Term During BL at 12.93% Haste
The rotation information is:

CS-KSx2-AIx2-SSx4 with MMM AI procs replacing an AI

The cycle takes 10.43s on non-MMM AI cycles and 10.0s on MMM AI cycles. Average focus is barely positive.

Termination increases DPS by about 1100.

Per some comments and suggestions that I have received in PMs, to make the MM guide a little more accessible and less intimidating, I have moved the shot details information for each phase to separate posts that are referenced in the OP. This is because although the shot details information is useful to some, it is not really needed by the average person reading the post. Furthermore, the T12 4-set support data is going to add more into the posts, so separating this data out will help keep the OP size down and make maintenance easier.

The main post, (and even the one above) is quite chucky and filled with data, though useful, it is very confusing to a new hunter reader.

You suggested using AI hard cast in your 4.2 cycles, is this flexible in relation to AS?

When to use AI as your focus dump in your cycles does not change in 4.2. It is still the same rules as applied in T11 gear since AI cast time was reduced and its damage was buffed in 4.0.6. And the choice of which to use is flexible as long as you understand the potential benefits or costs of using one over the other.

As a rehash:
- When unhasted, AI does a little more damage than the alternative cycle using 2 ASs, even when accounting for the the extra autoshot, WQ, and Sic'Em DPS of the AS case. However, the long cast times of AI makes it vunerable to both interruptions and pushback. Having an AI hardcast interrupted is a huge DPS loss, where just one or two interruptions can easily use the AI advantage. Thus, when we are unhasted, the recommendation is to use AS as the focus dump unless you are confident that your AI cast will not be interrupted or pushbacked.
- When hasted, AI hardcasts are much shorter making it much more DPS than the AS alternative and reducing the vunerability to interruptions/pushback, although the vunerability still exists. As such, we prefer to hardcast AI when hasted, with still knowing that we will need to use AS as the focus dump when moving or when in jeopardy of experiencing AI interruption or pushback.
- During the CA phase, AI almost always crits. Thus, it does a lot more damage than the AS alternative, and we want to use it as teh focus dump with the same exceptions as listed for the hasted case.

Not sure if this has been mentioned ---

For T12 another reason for switching to Kill Command is -- It does not reset your SS timer, thus you can maintain a free KC in the middle of a ImpSS refresh.

That is good to know, but I do not see a reason why we would ever need to do so...
- Whether you use the KC first or finish the SS first, the net focus consumption is the same
- The 4-set proc applies to the next focus consuming shot/KC within a certain amount of time. Hence, whether you cast the KC first or finish the SS pair doesn't matter
- There is a chance that the delay to cast KC before finishing the SS pair could result in the loss of ISS if you started the pair late in its 8s window.

The only exception is if need to do a quick move during the SS pair, am not already in AoF, and have the spare time in ISS refresh. Then it would make sense to use the KC on the move and finish the SS pair afterwards. Besides that, I really so no reason to break up an SS pair.

First, I do not think that there is an ICD but I do not know for sure either.

Next, I understand what you are saying, and I consider it a preferrential choice whether to do as you suggest. However, I still think it does not really buy you much for the following reasons:

1) You are only using KC to consume the procs when you are using AS as the focus dump; hence, this option does not apply when you are using AI as the focus dump. Assuming a 5 min fight with the first RF pair during the CA phase and a second RF pair and a BL, that is 100s of the 300s fight during which this situation does not apply. Thus, it basically only applies when you are unhasted.

2) Over the most unhasted shot rotations without the CS glyph, you perform 8 shots per CS cycle with 2 SS pairs. Thus, you have a 2 in 8 or 25% chance to be in the middle of an SS pair when the proc is available to be consumed. Factoring in the 10% chance for the proc, that means the average chance to encounter this situation is 1 in 40. With assuming a 2s average autoshot cast time, that means that this situation will occur on average about every 80s. So during the 200s of unhasted fighting where we would use KC potentially for the procs, that is about 2.5 occurrences on average. This means that you have only gained yourself on average 0.25 additional procs over a 5 min fight.

EDIT: If the second SS pair is at the end of the cycle right before the CS, then you definitely do not want to use KC in the middle of the SS pair since it will be using the focus savings instead of CS and you are pushing your CS back a GCD. Thus. the 0.25 additional procs over a 5 min fight is a best case scenario. Depending on where you perform the second SS pair in your cycle, the benefit could be as low as 0.125 additional procs on average over a 5 min fight.

3) Now it is true that doing as you suggest could save a whole proc if you had "back-to-back" procs. However, most of the unhasted rotations with a single T12 proc during that CS cycle are already focus positive or close to it. Add in a 50% chance for a MMM AI proc that cycle and the cycle is almost definitely wasting focus already. If on the off chance using KC in the middle of an SS pair results in the back to back proc situation that you are trying not to waste, the odds are very highly that the proc is a wasted proc anyway with focus savings that will just be wasted, although there are indeed situations where some of that focus could be used.

In summary, although your suggestion could potentially gain an extra proc once in a while, it is going to be seldom and most likely to provide focus that is not useable. Thus, I prefer not to worry about it and to always perform my SS pairs before casting the next shot regardless of whether the T12 proc is available during the SS pair and that your suggestion could be utilized.

As shown in the private message question below, the amount of haste level to counteract latency is being asked again. Since the analysis changes without the presence of the T11 4-set reduced SS cast time (and is actually better more often with longer SS cast times), I am providing an updated response here that will be linked from the latency section in the main post. Haste % in this post is the resultant amount from haste from gear multiplied by your haste from Pathing.

Concerning how much haste is needed to counteract a given amount of latency, I have done some analysis concerning this previously with posts on it somewhere in the thread. However, the analysis is for with the T11 4-set and does not apply to without the 4-set. The trouble with this analysis in general is that it is not necessarily one size fits all since there are many factors that affect it. These include:
- A given players average latency
- The haste level (low or high recommendations) that they chose to use in game
- A player’s chosen glyphs and shot selections since this determines how many latency affected shots you are performing that need to be counteracted by the number of cast shots you have
- The fact that there is some slack in the haste recommendations, especially if your chosen rotation takes different lengths on normal cycles and MMM AI cycles where you want to somewhat balance the CS cycle delay on the longer cycles and the deadtime on the shorter cycles.
- The complication that you are not always performing the same cycle every cycle. Your cycle changes with changes in haste amounts as well as changes in the phases. Your cycle may also change in order to balance focus or in the presence of accommodating MMM AI procs. Thus, you have to chose which of the cycles to optimize.
- The cost in crit and mastery to acquire the additional haste to counteract the latency

When I optimize for latency, the cycle I use is the Standard phase unhasted cycle since that it the one we perform the most and also has the ideally tight CS cycle restriction for maximum DPS. Here is an example of such optimization for the 12.93% haste case.

Let’s assume that the cycle is performed as the following:

CS-SS-SS-AS-AS-SS-SS-SS (MMM AI procs or KCs for T12 4-set procs replace an AS)

This cycle has 3 instant cast shots affected by latency and 5 cast shots of duration that is greater than the GCD that are not affected by latency. Although it’s the 3 instants that suffer the latency, it is the 5 SSs that have to make up for the inefficiency by reducing their cast times. The table below shows the amount of haste required to maintain a tight CS cycle at a certain latency level.

Latency (ms)	CS-ASx2 (s)	SSx5 (s)	Actual Cycle Time (s)	Haste (%)	Haste (rating)	SS Cast Savings (s)	New Cycle Time (s)	Required Haste (%)
0	3.00	7.00	10.00	0.00%	0	0.000	10.00	12.93%
50	3.15	7.00	10.15	2.19%	280	0.150	10.00	15.12%
100	3.30	7.00	10.30	4.48%	573	0.300	10.00	17.41%
150	3.45	7.00	10.45	6.87%	880	0.450	10.00	19.80%
200	3.60	7.00	10.60	9.38%	1201	0.600	10.00	22.31%
250	3.75	7.00	10.75	12.00%	1537	0.750	10.00	24.93%
300	3.90	7.00	10.90	14.75%	1889	0.900	10.00	27.68%

As can be seen, the amount of haste required to full counteract the latency increases slightly exponentially as your latency level increases since it requires slightly more and more haste per latency increase. At low levels of latency a reasonable amount of additional haste can be used to partially or fully tighten the cycle back up. At higher levels of latency, too much additional haste is required for a tight cycle where it is probably best to utilize the lower 5.4% haste case for which the data is shown below for the 5 SS cycle, which delays your CS cast by 0.5s and is only a tight cycle on cycles where the MMM AI proc replaces the 5th SS:

Latency (ms)	CS-ASx2 (s)	SSx5 (s)	Actual Cycle Time (s)	Haste (%)	Haste (rating)	SS Cast Savings (s)	New Cycle Time (s)	Required Haste (%)
0	3.00	7.50	10.50	0.00%	0	0.000	10.50	5.40%
50	3.15	7.50	10.65	2.04%	262	0.150	10.50	7.44%
100	3.30	7.50	10.80	4.17%	534	0.300	10.50	9.57%
150	3.45	7.50	10.95	6.38%	818	0.450	10.50	11.78%
200	3.60	7.50	11.10	8.70%	1114	0.600	10.50	14.10%
250	3.75	7.50	11.25	11.11%	1423	0.750	10.50	16.51%
300	3.90	7.50	11.40	13.64%	1746	0.900	10.50	19.04%

As can be seen in the table above, at higher latency levels, a more reasonable amount of haste is required to maintain the cycle at the 0 latency level.

A complicating factor here is that you do not always perform a 5 SS cycle. You often perform the 4 SS cycle if you have sufficient focus to do so. With 4 instants now suffering latency and only 4 cast shots to counteract it, the amount of required haste is higher for both haste cases as shown below.

For 12.93% haste case:

Latency (ms)	CS-ASx3 (s)	SSx4 (s)	Actual Cycle Time (s)	Haste (%)	Haste (rating)	SS Cast Savings (s)	New Cycle Time (s)	Required Haste (%)
0	4.00	5.60	9.60	-6.67%	-854	-0.400	10.00	6.26%
50	4.20	5.60	9.80	-3.45%	-442	-0.200	10.00	9.48%
100	4.40	5.60	10.00	0.00%	0	0.000	10.00	12.93%
150	4.60	5.60	10.20	3.70%	474	0.200	10.00	16.63%
200	4.80	5.60	10.40	7.69%	985	0.400	10.00	20.62%
250	5.00	5.60	10.60	12.00%	1537	0.600	10.00	24.93%
300	5.20	5.60	10.80	16.67%	2134	0.800	10.00	29.60%

Although the 4 SS cast rotation is more restrictive in counteracting latency, the 4 SS cycle is actually more forgiving over parts of it at the 12.93% haste level since that case was designed to accommodate 5 SSs in a tight CS cycle. Thus, when you only perform 4 SSs in a CS cycle, there is at 0 latency 0.4s of deadtime in the CS cycle making it a tight CS cycle at 100 ms latency. At lower than 100 ms latency, the cycle has deadtime where less than 12.93% haste is actually required to perform a tight CS cycle. Hence, depending on your latency level below 100 ms latency and what percentage of your cycles are 4 SS cycles versus 5 SS cycles, you may not need any extra haste to counteract latency on average and may actually be able to get by with less than 12.93% haste. This is an additional benefit of the 12.93% haste case over the 5.4% haste case if you have lower latency.

For instance, from the charts at 100 ms latency, somewhere between 12.93% and 17.41% haste is ideal depending on your ratio of 4 SS to 5 SS cycles. Without the T12 4-set, I estimate that to balance focus, you need to perform the 5 SS cycle every 5 of 8 cycles. Hence, about 15.73% haste is a good amount to roughly effectively counteract latency on the average cycle. It results in a little deadtime on the 4 SS cycles and a little CS delay on the 5 SS cycles.

With the T12 4-set procs saving focus, the ratio of 4 SS cycles to 5 SSs cycles becomes higher. In the worse case of all procs consumed by AS/KC, the ratio of 5 SS cycles is only 1 of 3 cycles, at which about 14.42% haste is a good compromise. In the best case of the proc being consumed by CS, you will almost never need to perform the 5th SS, with the 12.93% haste level being ideal.

The table below provides a recommended haste level depending on your ratio of ideal 4 SS cycles to total number of cycles, where the “3 in 8” is the non-T12 4-set ratio, “2 in 3” in the T12 4-set procs used all by AS, “1 in 1” is the procs used all by CS, and “4 in 5” is a rough “middle” ground for procs being used mostly by ASs:

Latency (ms)	3 in 8	2 in 3	4 in 5	1 in 1
0	10.43%	8.49%	7.60%	6.26%
50	13.01%	11.36%	10.61%	9.48%
100	15.73%	14.42%	13.83%	12.93%
150	18.61%	17.69%	17.27%	16.63%
200	21.67%	21.18%	20.96%	20.62%
250	24.93%	24.93%	24.93%	24.93%
300	28.40%	28.96%	29.21%	29.60%

Hence, for the 12.93% haste case an addition benefit of the T12 4-set proc is that you are performing more 4 SS cycles and the amount of haste to counteract latency is generally reduced. Note that at about 250ms latency is the inflexion point for this cycle where reducing the number of SSs per cycle starts to have a negative instead of positive impact.

Note that both Termination and when KS becomes available are additional factors that result in the unhasted rotation to only cast 4 SSs in a cycle more often.

For 5.4% haste case:

Latency (ms)	CS-ASx3 (s)	SSx4 (s)	Actual Cycle Time (s)	Haste (%)	Haste (rating)	SS Cast Savings (s)	New Cycle Time (s)	Required Haste (%)
0	4.00	6.00	10.00	0.00%	0	0.000	10.00	5.40%
50	4.20	6.00	10.20	3.45%	442	0.200	10.00	8.85%
100	4.40	6.00	10.40	7.14%	915	0.400	10.00	12.54%
150	4.60	6.00	10.60	11.11%	1423	0.600	10.00	16.51%
200	4.80	6.00	10.80	15.39%	1970	0.800	10.00	20.79%
250	5.00	6.00	11.00	20.00%	2561	1.000	10.00	25.40%
300	5.20	6.00	11.20	25.00%	3202	1.200	10.00	30.40%

The 5.4% haste case is built around the 4 SS cycle for a tight CS cycle. Thus, instead of having deadtime in the cycle with 4 SSs as the 12.93% case does, it is a tight cycle with 4 SSs and has a 0.5s CS cycle delay on cycles with 5 SSs. Hence, reducing the number of SSs in the cycle does reduce its cycle time but it also requires more haste to maintain the tight cycle.

Without the T12 4-set procs, focus is balanced doing about 5 4 SS cycles out of every 8 cycles. The presences of T12 4-set procs increases the ratio of 4 SS cycles with the required haste shown below:

Latency (ms)	5 in 8	2 in 3	4 in 5	1 in 1
0	5.40%	5.40%	5.40%	5.40%
50	8.32%	8.38%	8.57%	8.85%
100	11.43%	11.55%	11.95%	12.54%
150	14.74%	14.94%	15.57%	16.51%
200	18.28%	18.56%	19.45%	20.79%
250	22.07%	22.44%	23.62%	25.40%
300	26.14%	26.61%	28.13%	30.40%

In all cases, performing the tighter 4 SS cycle more often requires more haste from gear to counteract a given amount of latency.

I've got a question regarding Haste and the Pathing talent. Is it better to stack haste and thus take the talent points you have in Pathing and place them somewhere else or should you reforge the haste into Hit/Crit/Mastery and pick up Pathing? As it looks now, the only other possible talents are either Improved Serpent Sting or survival ones Hunter vs. Wild/Spirit Bond, neither of which increase our dps.

The answer to this is that it depends. Some of the factors it depends on are:

- Your gear and the amount of haste that you have on it. Obviously, a player with higher ilevel is likely to have more haste on their gear naturally and more options for reforging into haste than a player with lower ilevel and will have more flexibility in making haste plateaus.

- Are you going with the high haste point or the low haste point. If you are going with the low haste point, the odds are that you are going to have a difficult time reforging away enough haste to get down to the ideal amount (with factoring in your latency) that it makes sense to talent out of Pathing. If you are going with the higher haste plateau, then it requires more haste and you are more likely to need points from Pathing. Furthermore, Pathing is multiplicative with your haste on gear. Hence, points in Pathing are more valuable (worth a higher equivalent amount of haste rating on gear) when you have more haste on gear. This also makes Pathing a better talent at the higher haste plateau than at the lower one.

- With Pathing being worth more haste rating at higher haste levels, this means that taking a point in Pathing at higher haste levels allows you to be able to reforge a higher amount of stats out of haste and into crit and mastery. On the other hand, it also means that when trying to make a haste plateau that the more points that you take in Pathing to make that plateau means the less amount of haste you have on gear and the lower value of each those points in Pathing as shown at the top of the guide.

- What other talent options are worthwhile? Assuming that you are using the recommended spec in the guide but with 3/3 Pathing, here are some of the options for moving points in Pathing:
-- Frenzy: This talent increases pet DPS by a decent amount and is a good option. So using an unnecessary point in Pathing to top it off can be beneficial.
-- Termination: Topping off Termination can potentially be a DPS increase, especially if you are hasted a lot during the Termination/Kill Shot phases.
-- Improved KC: This talent is a DPS increase only if you are talented for RiF and/or are using KC in place of AS under certain scenarios with the T12 4-set procs.
-- Concussive Barrage: This talent can be very useful in some situations where need to slow/control the target. It is especially nice in AoE situations and why I have it in my AoE control spec. However, it does not necessarily provide a DPS benefit and can be counterproductive in situations where the tank is trying to move the target.
-- Resistance is Futile: Free KCs can be nice, but I am not personally a fan of this talent.
-- Improved Serpent Sting: This is a bad talent for MM and worth very little DPS. I do not recommend it.
-- Hunter vs. Wild: Good for survivability, but for good players the extra Stamina should not really make the difference on most fights, although there are some boss fights where having it can help.
-- Silencing Shot: Gets the ranged interrupt/silence back, which may not be needed in your raid, but which is a nice utility to have if can afford the talent point.
-- Other talents in BM second tier: None of these really have much benefit in PvE, with the exception being Spirit Bond, but it is kind of overkill most fights considering the much better self-heal that we have in CS.

Thus, I really cannot provide a general recommendation since it depends on your given situation and preferences. However, I can state these guidelines:

- If you are using the lower haste plateau, you are usually better off moving the points of Pathing into other talents since you are probably getting more than enough haste from gear and may have problems reforging out of it.

- If you are using the higher haste point, I still recommend at least some points in Pathing depending on your overall ilevel and haste from gear. By default, I recommend 3/3 Pathing since each point is valuable and helps to make the haste plateau. However, at higher ilevels with higher natural haste from gear, you may not need one or more points in Pathing to ideally make the haste plateau. In most cases at higher ilevel, dropping one point in Pathing is recommended, but dropping additional points depends on your situation and preferences.

- For replacement points when dropping Pathing, I recommend first topping off Frenzy for most situations and then Termination. If you have the T12 4-set and am using KC a lot, then IKC is another viable option. Other choices can be made on a preferential basis.

This is notification that I have finally added in the support for the T12 4-set into the Standard phase information in both the OP and the Standard phase details post.

This may be the only specific support that I provide in the guide for the T12 4-set since:
- The Standard phase is by far the largest part of the fight.
- Providing the details for the other phases is a lot of effort for something that is easily extrapolated from the general information for a rough sense of what to do.
- The T12 4-set is only temporary, so the support for it is temporary.

If I do find the time for additional T12 4-set support, I will probably concentrate on the more unique phases. These are:
- CA phase unhasted since using AI as the focus dump instead of AS. Since we should normally be hasted during this phase, support for this is low priority.
- KS phase due to the impacts of adding KS.

I probably will never provide specific T12 4-set support for the following phases:
- CA phase with RF or BL since the rotations should be exactly the same as during the Standard phase when under the corresponding haste effects.
- Termination phase since all it does is reduce the ratio of focus regen cycles with the 5th SS.

Replying to this question generically in the thread since the answer applies to many hunters (including myself).

With how valuable the T11 4-set bonus is, generally obtaining one replacement piece that improves it's ilevel from 359 to 378 is not enough DPS gain in the piece to make up for the loss of the 4-set. When you obtain one replacement piece, the best option is usually to use that new piece if you have the 5th T11 tier piece that you can still use to keep the T11 4-set, even if you downgrade the ilevel in the slot for the 5th T11 piece from a 372 item to a 359 T11 piece. if you don't have the 5th T11 piece, then the best option is to just hold onto the 378 piece until you acquire more gear.

Even gaining 2 359 to 378 upgrades in your tier slots may not be enough to replace your T11 4-set either (unless they are both T12 tier pieces gaining the 2-set). The answer really depends on which tier slots is being replaced since different slots have different levels of itemization. For instance, a chest piece has more itemization than a hands piece; thus, an upgrade in your chest is a larger DPS gain than your hands. It also depends on the secondary stats on the new piece compared to the old piece. If the new piece has better secondary stats, then the DPS increase is larger than if it has worse secondary stats (such as the new piece not having crit but the old piece did).

Hence, it is very difficult to provide any definitive recommendations since there are many variables involved. My recommendation is to use a tool like Rawr or FemaleDwarf to get a good estimate of whether the change may be DPS increase for you. To get a more accurate estimate, make sure that when you drop the T11 4-set that you adjust your haste level appropriately, take advantage of maybe being able to spec out of a point in Pathing, and adjust your third glyph if appropriate.

As an example from my personal experience, I have received 2 378 non-tier upgrades so far - 372 to 378 in chest and 359 to 378 in helm. Previously, I was not using my hands for my 4-set since I had a 372 off tier piece I used instead. When I gained the 378 chest, it was not a DPS upgrade for me since I only gained 6 ilevel in my chest slot but lost 13 ilevel when replaced my hands to maintain the 4-set. Even after getting the helm, the two items together were not enough to break my 4-set (partly due to having a 372 tier chest), with being about 100 DPS short after making haste, spec, and glyph adjustments. However, the 19 ilevel gain in the helm, as well as its higher itemization than my hands, was enough to make dropping the 13 ilevel in my hands worthwhile to maintain the T11 4-set with the new helm.

Status of the latest version of Rawr (4.2.1 from July the 11th) is still "Inoperable" in hunter's section which makes that tool practically useless for us in Cata.

with 3/3 pathing you say we need 1235 haste. but where is the difference to 4.1 we need 1346 haste?!

The difference in the haste recommendation between the 4.1 and 4.2 versions of the guide has to do with the fact that we have a different base SS cast time. With the T11 4-set in the 4.1 version, the base cast time was 1.8s, while without the T11 4-set it is 2s. This results in different shot selections per cycle and different haste points. The haste recommendation in the 4.2 version of the guide is consistent with the recommendation in the 4.1 guide for those who did not have the T11 4-set.

It is because of this fundamental difference that I have archived the recommendations for the T11 4-set.

The 4 piece tier 12 is currently not affecting Arcane Shot for me. I will get the buff, cast Arcane Shot, lose the 22 focus from the shot and lose the buff. I have reported this on the bug forums, but I was wondering if anyone else with the 4 piece is having this issue as well.

In an effort to further reduce the size of the MM guide while still maintaining good information for those that are interested, I have moved the T12 4-Set Bonus detailed discussion into this post since it contains information that is beyond what the average player necessarily cares to know and since it is information that is only relevelant for T12 content.

This post is referenced in section 4.2.2 T12 Set Bonuses in the MM guide for easy access.

T12 4-Set Bonus Introduction

The 4-set bonus is that autoshots have a 10% chance to cause our next shot or Kill Command to cost not focus. Note that this proc is only consumed by abilities that cost focus; hence, it will never be wasted on a SS, KS, MMM AI proc, or other non-focus costing shots. This can also be a very beneficial bonus since it provides additional focus to possibly use to perform more damage. Note though that the benefit from this ability does have some limitations. If your rotation over a certain fight phase already has the minimum 4 SSs and is focus balanced, then the additional focus generated by this proc could just be wasted focus. Luckily, we are not always in such situations if we ever are. Anytime your normal rotation is focus negative, this proc can help make it focus positive or at least less focus negative. Furthermore, if your rotation has extra SSs required to balance focus, this proc will help reduce or eliminate the number of those additional SSs needed. When under dynamic haste effects with casting AIs and not performing a tight CS rotation, these procs will usually power additional AI casts for more DPS.

Other additional factors concerning the 4-set bonus:
- Being under dynamic haste effects increase your autoshot frequency and number of procs per CS cycle. Thus, this bonus favors higher haste cases and the RF glyph.
- Since AI locks out your autoshot casts, you will experience less procs while using AI as your focus dump at a given haste amount.
- The T12 4-set bonus has inverse benefits to your T12 2-set bonus. Whenever we have additional focus and can take another focus dump instead of a having to perform additional SSs, we lower our number of SS casts and chances to proc FAs. One question that can be asked then is which is more important, casting an additional SS with the additional chance to get FA or AS when it is the focus dump. This question is addressed in 6.2.4 Steady Shot Spamming vs. Arcane Shot outside the CA Phase.
- When using AS as your focus dump and a 4-set proc occurs, it can be beneficial to cast KC instead if you can perform it without incurring additional reaction time delays in your cycle. This is because KC does a little more damage than AS but does not cost the additional focus that it normally does. A question that has been asked is whether it would be better to cast KC instead of AS when they costs full focus. This question is addressed in 6.2.5 Kill Command or Arcane Shot for T12 4-Set Procs.

T12 4-Set Bonus Proc Consumption

With how various shots cost various amounts of focus with a wide range in damage, the general goal, when possible, is to spend the T12 4-set proc on the highest focus costing and damaging shot as possible. The decision process depends on which shot you are currently using as a focus dump and what shots are on CD.

When AS is your focus dump, the only other focus costing shot that you normally use is CS, which is on a 9 to 10s CD. Since CS costs twice as much focus as AS, the preference is to use the proc on CS if it is off CD or coming off CD soon, with the next section illustrating methods to increase the chance the CS will consume the proc if that is desired. However, if CS is still on CD for a long time, it is usually more beneficial to use the proc on AS and start the chances for the next proc. Furthermore, if your cycle is only slightly focus negative, then it will not matter whether you use the proc on CS or AS, since either way you will lose focus. Another option is to replace ASs that would consume the proc will KCs instead since they both are instant and focus free in that situation but with KC doing about 1.4 times the damage.

When AI is your focus dump, the only other focus costing shot that you normally use is CS, which is on a 9 to 10s CD. Since CS and AI cost about the same amount of focus (within 6 focus depending on Eff and AI glyph), the preference to consume the proc on the higher focus costing shot (AI in this case) is not that important. The difference basically amounts to about 6 focus at most every about 25s or about 0.24 fps. Thus, for most players, I recommend not worry about which shot, AI or CS, consumes the proc. In addition, since KC does so much less damage than AI and does not proc Sic’Em like AI, I do not recommend using KC whenever AI is your focus dump.

4.2.2.2 T12 4-Set Bonus Impacts

In the Shot Rotations discussion in section 6.5, this guide does not usually provide explicit instructions for optimal use of the T12 4-set proc like it does for in the cycles without the T12 4-set proc. Instead it provides general impacts of the T12 4-set to the listed rotations and suggestions for utilizing the 4-set benefits. The reason for this is that there are so many variables that exist which impact how the T12 4-set proc affects your cycle which require a player to have to make dynamic decisions on how to best utilize it. These variables include:

1) How often the procs occur relative to your number of cycles since focus balancing is tracked in this guide per CS cycle. Factors affecting this include:
- Higher static haste increases your autoshot frequency and proc rate
- Dynamic haste periods and the amount of dynamic haste increases your autoshot frequency and proc rate
- Whether you are using AI as your focus dump and how often AI is used since it locks out your autoshots and reduces its frequency and the proc rate
- Whether you are experiencing any in fight factors that temporarily halt your autoshots and reduce proc frequency
- The length of your CS cycle
The number of procs that you get per CS cycle affects the number of opportunities per cycle to save focus to better balance it or eliminate extra SSs.

2) When in the CS cycle that the proc occurs. Depending on when in CS cycle that the proc occurs impacts what shot consumes the proc and what focus benefit is received. In some situations, the proc will occur at a time that allows us to make a decision on what shot to use to consume the proc. However, there are other situations where the timing of the proc is such that we have no opportunity to decide what shot consumes the proc. If the proc occurs while we have a focus costing shot queued or are in the process of casting a focus costing shot, then there is no chance to change what shot consumes the proc. In other cases, the shot you would prefer to consume the proc on since it costs more focus may be on CD for too long of a period to make it worth waiting for it and not casting any other focus costing shots.

3) The order that you perform shots in your cycle. Since your cycle contains both shots that use focus and consume the proc and shots that are focus free and do not consume the proc, the order you perform shots in your cycle impacts the probability of what shot consumes the proc and the amount of focus saved. With using the Standard phase unhasted maximum DPS cycle at the 5.4% haste level of CS-ASx3-SSx4 as an example:

Option	A	B	C
	CS	CS	CS
	AS	AS	SS
	AS	SS	SS
	AS	SS	SS
	SS	AS	SS
	SS	AS	AS
	SS	SS	AS
	SS	SS	AS
CS %	70%	40%	10%
AS %	30%	60%	90%
Avg. Savings	17.16	14.13	11.10

Where:
CS% is the probability that the T12 4-set proc is consumed by CS
AS% is the probability that the proc is consumed by AS
Avg. Savings is the average focus savings for that option with using the average proc chance for cycle of 45.78% (derived from 10s cycle duration, 2.18 autoshot frequency, and 10% proc chance per autoshot).

It can be seen that with this cycle that there are three main options of cycle performance that affects the probability that CS will consume the proc instead of AS. These are whether you finish the cycle with both, one, or none of the SS pairs. So from the above table only, it seems that the obvious choice would be to perform option A since it saves the most focus, but that it not necessarily the best case for the following reasons:
- You may not need to save that amount of focus to end up with a cycle that is focus positive on average. In this case since the max DPS cycle shown has about a net 21 focus deficit per cycle with factoring in MMM AI savings. Hence, option A would be preferred since it gets us closest to focus balanced. However, if the focus deficit was only 14, then option B would be sufficient.
- Focus dipping constraints. If starting at 100 focus, option A dips down to about 5 focus. Thus, if you start the cycle with less than 95 focus, you cannot perform cycle A. On the other hand, cycle B has the least amount of focus dipping with only dropping to about 36 focus at the lowest if starting at 100 focus. Hence, focus B may be the more desired cycle since it can be more consistently performed and since it only loses about 3 focus per cycle on average from the T12 4-set proc from the optimal focus savings case.

Similar situations exist for each CS cycle with different shot selections.

4) MMM procs occurring on same cycle as the T12 4-set procs. Since both procs save focus, when they both occur on the same cycle, then you save a lot of focus and have a high potential of wasting focus instead of being able to utilize that focus. Also the variation of when MMM AI procs and T12 4-set procs occur can result in feast and famine cycles happening somewhat randomly. Using the same cycle as in 3) as an example below:

Shot	Time	Focus	Focus2	Focus3	Focus4	Focus5	Focus6
CS/4S3,4	1.00	60.22	60.22	104.22	104.22	60.22	60.22
AS/MMM2,4,6	2.00	42.43	64.43	86.43	108.43	42.43	64.43
SS	3.50	57.76	79.76	101.76	123.76	57.76	79.76
SS	5.00	73.08	95.08	117.08	139.08	73.08	95.08
AS/4S5,6	6.00	55.30	77.30	99.30	121.30	77.30	99.30
AS	7.00	37.51	59.51	81.51	103.51	59.51	81.51
SS	8.50	52.84	74.84	96.84	118.84	74.84	96.84
SS	10.00	68.16	90.16	112.16	134.16	90.16	112.16
Net Focus		-31.84	-9.84	12.16	34.16	-9.84	12.16

Focus2 is a cycle with a MMM AI proc
Focus3 is a cycle with a 4-set proc consumed by CS
Focus4 is a cycle with a 4-set proc consumed by CS and a MMM AI proc
Focus5 is a cycle with a 4-set proc consumed by AS
Focus6 is a cycle with a 4-set proc consumed by AS and a MMM AI proc
Note that shot order should be changed to better utilize focus where possible but was not done in this example.

As can be seen, on a normal cycle, this shot selection loses about 32 focus. On the other hand on a cycle with both a MMM AI and T12 4-set proc consumed by CS, the shot selection wastes over 34 focus. On cycles with only an AS being replaced by either proc, the cycle loses about 10 focus. On a cycle with one AS each being affected by the two procs or the 4-set proc only being consumed by CS, then 12 focus is wasted.

Thus, as can be seen, when MMM AI procs occur relative to when T12 4-set procs occur, can really affect your focus balancing and may result in focus wasting depending on your focus level entering that cycle. For optimal focus balancing, it is ideal for the two procs to not occur on the same cycle. Unfortunately we have very little control of that. On average, MMM AI procs should occur on every other cycle, while the 4-set proc should occur on every about 2.2 cycles. These proc frequencies will vary depending on your shot selection per CS cycle.

Note that the majority of the details on the impact of the T12 4-set procs will be provided in the unhasted cases where the shot rotation is limited to as tight of a CS cycle as possible. Since the hasted cases are not CS CD limited, there is a lot more leeway in the decision process.

BM has Kill Command. It'd probably be a slight gain if only KC consumes the proc for BM.

Exactly ! If only KC consume the proc it's a gain, If KC and AS consume the proc it's a loss because BM have to use AS.

Does anybody know if Multishot also proc ?

A short answer on my specific case :

I've played with 100 ms of latency and i have really difficulty in raid situation to perform 5ss and 2 as ...

I've tried to increase my haste (19%) but it's not really solve the problem.

Which level of hast cap will be reasonnable for me ? & after haste and hit cap, witch stat must be increase (mastery ? Crit ?).

My template, stuff and reforge on wowreforge : Wow reforge link

Answering this question generically since may apply to others.

As clarification, the 12.93% haste level is the level to allow you to be able to perform 5 SSs in a tight 10s CS cycle at 0 latency. However, it does not mean that you are supposed to cast 5 SSs every cycle.

The ideal situation is still to only be able to cast the minimum 4 SSs per cycle required to maintain ISS (doing so results in about 0.4s of deadtime in the CS cycle at this haste level); however, for focus balancing reasons, we often need to cast a 5th SS.

As a reminder from the guide for the Standard phase unhasted:
- Without the T12 4-set, I recommend at this haste level performing the following base cycle with MMM AI procs replacing the extra SS on every 3 of 4 procs and an AS on the other procs to include focus regen cycles to balance focus
CS-ASx2-SSx5
Hence, this cycle performs the 5th SS on roughly 5 of 8 cycles.
With Termination, the 5th SS is not needed when Termination is active
- With the T12 4-set, I recommend at this haste level performing the following base cycle with MMM AI procs replacing an AS. In addition, to balance focus an AS needs to be replaced by a 5th SS as needed, preferrably on cycles with neither a MMM AI or T12 4-set proc to reduce focus wasting.
CS-ASx3-SSx4

The 100ms latency case is kind of an “ideal” latency case for this haste level. When performing a 4 SS cycle, it makes up for the deadtime in the cycle and results in a tight CS cycle. However, on 5 SS cycles, it results in about a 0.3s delay in your CS cycle.

Since the goal is to perform that 5th SS cast as seldom as possible to balance focus and with the T12 4-set reducing the need for the 5th SS cast, I do not recommend acquiring additional haste to try to tighten up the CS cycle on 5 SS cycles. It results in more deadtime on the 4 SS cycles and costs you additional crit and mastery.

This post does not really apply to those that raid in 25-man raids since the 10% physical haste buff should be available in the vast majority of 25-man raid groups.

I recently received a private message in regards to a player with questions about what is ideal for him to do in his 10-man raid that is often without the 10% physical haste buff (just called haste buff for the rest of this post).

The default answer is to switch to SV to increase your personal DPS and to increase the DPS of your raid. This default answer is particularly useful for those that like to play SV and am good at it and/or have a raid group composed of a lot of physical DPS.

This default answer is not necessarily the best answer in all situations though. These include:
- When your hunter is also the only source of the 10% AP buff for the raid. For most physical DPS classes, the 10% AP is bigger DPS gain than the 10% haste.
- The player knows how to play MM well, but does not play SV nearly as well. In these cases, switching to SV can be not much of a personal DPS gain or even a loss. Also, itemizing gear to support SV an SV spec well is not bad for MM but is not ideal.
- Your raid has very few physical DPS and is caster heavy. Hence, the raid benefit of the raid buff is much smaller, and in the extreme case, only applies to yourself and the tanks.
- You are not normally without the haste buff but am from time to time on a seldom enough basis where it is not worth allocating one of your dual specs to SV.

Personally, I fall into several of these categories. I am the only source of the raid’s 10% AP buff when our DK tank goes DPS (in which case he covers the haste buff anyway). I am much more effective at playing MM than I am at SV since I study it much more and play it much more (almost all the time). Except for a melee sub from time to time, I am the only physical DPS in my raids. Finally, I am rarely without the haste buff since we usually have two shaman, each with dropping the caster/physical haste buffs. I am only without the haste buff when one of the shaman is missing that night and our DK is tanking. As such, I do not have an SV spec or raid as SV ever (only raided as SV at the start of Cataclysm when it was so much better). When I am without the haste buff, I continue to raid as MM since it occurs infrequently and since my raid says they do not care if I respec SV.

So the player that messaged me wanted to know how to tune his MM hunter for the lack of haste buff since staying MM seemed to make the most sense to him for his situation, which meets many of the factors listed above, and whether doing so was acceptable. I said that it was acceptable situationally and shared the details of how I handle it currently with my T11 4-set. I then investigated how it would work out with T12 gear, especially the T12 4-set.

The key to this situation is our two major haste points for the fully buffed case – 12.93% haste from gear and Pathing for a tight 5 SS cycle and 5.4% haste for a tight 4 SS cycle. If you notice, these two cases have about a 7.5% haste difference between them. This is not 10%, but still important.

If you are built for the 12.93% haste 5 SS cycle for the fully buffed case, then the main impact of losing the raid buff is that you downscale to the 4 SS cycle being preferred. Performing the 4 SS cycle at this haste situation only has 0.16s of CS delay. Without the T12 4-set, this rotation is decently focus negative, losing about 17 focus per cycle on average. This requires performing a 5th SS a lot. The 5th SS cycle delays your CS by 0.7s. Unfortunately, without the T12 4-set, the 5th SS is needed almost every cycle to balance focus. With the T12 4-set, the situation is much better since you rarely need the extra SS (only 1 in every 10 cycles).

Here is detailed shot information for the 12.93% haste case without the haste buff for the Standard phase unhasted.

Shot	Time	Focus	Focus2	Focus3
CS	1.00	60.52	60.52	60.52
AS	2.00	43.03	43.03	43.03
SS	3.54	58.99	58.99	58.99
SS	5.08	74.95	74.95	74.95
AS/MMM2/SS3	6.08	57.46	79.46	90.90
AS	7.08	39.98	61.98	73.42
SS	8.62	55.94	77.94	89.38
SS	10.16	71.89	93.89	105.33
Net Focus	-17.11	-28.11	-6.11	5.33
Cycle Delay		0.16	0.16	0.70
Ratio	-1.22	1	20	19
#Autos		4.55	4.55	4.79
Net-T12AS	-7.10	-18.10	3.90	15.88
Net-T12CS	2.91	-8.09	13.91	26.42
Ratio for AS	1.40	1	2	1
Ratio for CS	2.91	1	1	0

Focus2 – MMM AI proc replaces an AS
Focus3 – extra SS replaces an AS

Compared to the case with the haste buff, the Standard phase unhasted really is not affected much by the lack of the raid buff. It takes a little longer at 0.16s on 4 SS cycles and 0.7s on 5 SS cycle, but has slightly better focus balancing since the haste buff doesn’t affect regen but the longer cycle generates a little more over its duration. The big penalty occurs when you have to cast the extra SS to balance focus, although you have to cast the extra SS slightly less often in this case.

With the T12 4-set bonus’s practical elimination of the need for the extra SS, our cycles over the Standard phase unhasted are almost identical except for the extra 0.16s on the CS cycle for the case without the raid buff.

Where the real impacts of the loss of the haste buff occur is during the much more shot flexible dynamic haste periods where both our SS and AI cast times are longer, although regen is still slightly better. In addition, obviously autoshot and related damage is less without the haste buff.

In this situation, I definitely recommend the RF glyph since the extra haste is fully utilized during RFs to increase both SS and AI cast times to 1.03s and 1.49s, respectively.

So now that we discussed the case of how the recommended configuration is impacted by the loss of the haste buff, let us look at what the situation is if one desired to tune their MM hunter for the lack of the haste buff (not recommended but for extreme cases).

Without the 10% haste buff and assuming 3/3 Pathing, your base SS cast time not including haste on gear is:

2/1.15/1.03 = 1.69s (instead of 1.52s with the haste buff)

So how much haste from gear would you need for the 4 SS cycle with 4 GCDs for CS and ASs at 0 latency?

10 - 4 = 6 = 4 * 1.6884761 / x
x = 1.688471 / 6 = 1.12565 or 12.57% or 1610 haste rating

Haste rating requirements with various levels of Pathing (suggest 3/3 though):

Pathing Ranks	Haste From Gear	Haste Rating from Gear
0.00%	15.94%	2042
1.00%	14.79%	1895
2.00%	13.67%	1751
3.00%	12.57%	1610

This is equivalent to the 2.33% low haste on gear case (5.4% with 3/3 Pathing) with the haste buff since both have the 1.5s SS cast time. Thus, you need 10.54% more haste on gear to make up for the 10% haste buff if normally at the 5.4% haste case. The RF glyph still fully takes advantage of this situation with getting your SS cast to exactly the GCD during RFs.

Note that this case is essentially your haste for the 12.93% haste case with an additional 3% haste to fully make up for the loss of the raid buff.

Focus generation is a little better at 4.64 fps vs. 4.22, but this results in only 4.2 more focus per CS cycle, which does not make that much of a difference.

Lets look at the 5 SS case with 3 specials (12.93% haste case from guide - 9.63% with 3/3 Pathing):

10 - 3 = 7 = 5 * 1.6884761 / x
x = 1.20605 or about 20.61% or 2639 haste from gear (an unreasonable amount that will be ignored over the rest of this discussion)

Going back to the 4 SS cycle design since that seems like the best option (especially from the earlier discussion), here are more details. It results in a tight 10s CS cycle with the following profile:

Shot	Time	Focus	Focus2	Focus3
CS	1.00	60.64	60.64	60.64
AS	2.00	43.28	43.28	43.28
SS	3.50	59.23	59.23	59.23
SS	5.00	75.19	75.19	75.19
AS/MMM2/SS3	6.00	57.83	79.83	91.14
AS	7.00	40.46	62.46	73.78
SS	8.50	56.42	78.42	89.74
SS	10.00	72.38	94.38	105.70
Net Focus	-16.62	-27.62	-5.62	5.70
Cycle Delay	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.50
Ratio	-0.80	1	20	19
#Autos		4.60	4.60	4.83
Net-T12AS	-6.51	-17.51	4.49	16.32
Net-T12CS	3.61	-7.39	14.61	26.94
Ratio for AS	-0.87	2	3	1
Ratio for CS	3.61	1	1	0

Focus2 – AS is replaced by an MMM AI proc
Focus3 – AS is replaced by a 5th SS

Without the T12 4-set, the bad news with this cycle is that it requires the extra 5th SS almost every cycle in order to balance focus. The 5th SS results in a 0.5s delay in your CS cycle. Thus, it is not a great option without the T12 4-set.

With the T12 4-set, it basically becomes close to focus balanced with rarely using the extra SS (like one in every 10 cycles).

Thus, although I recommend in most situations to go SV if your raid does not have the haste buff; however, this post provides information for the alternatives of remaining as MM without the haste buff as long as it doesn’t hurt your raid.