Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Hunters

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/11/11, 10:45 AM   #301
Gavinas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
To delve deeper into this: There currently is no way of simulating (be it FD, Simcraft or otherwise) the shot cycle in which Whitefyst calculates the recommended haste. Simcraft priority system comes very close, but just that, close. So if you don't want to take his recommendations by heart, the only way to debunk them and present a better model is to look at the detailed math done yourself.
The problem with simulating this is that the premise to achieve the highest dps is to include as much focus dump shots (AS) between each CS cycle (9s with glyph, 10s without) while maintaining ISS buff and at least focus neutrality. None of the simulation tools available are able to parse such logic.
This is incorrect. If you're interested in modeling an exact rotation in Simcraft you can use a sequence action to do it. However, since that is not how you actually play MM, as the OP mentions, the default action list is set up as a priority system without any sequences.
Unlike BM/SV where you're always sticking to a 6s cycle I don't believe there is any point in aiming for a specific haste value for MM.

Since our priorities vary between the Careful Aim, standard, dynamically hasted, and Kill Shot/Termination phases the amount of haste needed to have a tight rotation in each phase will vary, as is clear from the OP's haste calculations. Additionally, even when you have a tight rotation that is nominally focus neutral, the distribution of MMM procs will force you to deviate from that rotation when you get a streak of lucky/unlucky RNG.

United States Offline
Old 03/11/11, 1:30 PM   #302
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by Gavinas View Post
Unlike BM/SV where you're always sticking to a 6s cycle I don't believe there is any point in aiming for a specific haste value for MM.

Since our priorities vary between the Careful Aim, standard, dynamically hasted, and Kill Shot/Termination phases the amount of haste needed to have a tight rotation in each phase will vary, as is clear from the OP's haste calculations. Additionally, even when you have a tight rotation that is nominally focus neutral, the distribution of MMM procs will force you to deviate from that rotation when you get a streak of lucky/unlucky RNG.
Although a player's "rotation" will vary from phase to phase and even within a phase depending on dynamic haste conditions, the impacts of moving and interruptions, and RNG, it still helps to have an ideal rotation to shoot for under each scenario - e.g, I want to do this during CA and that during Standard unhasted. With looking at the various haste ranges or requirements for each scenario and ideal rotation, you can determine a rough haste range or amount that best fits you. Furthermore, you need to be at least aware enough of the haste requirements so that you can balance both a high DPS rotation with focus consumption.

For instance, lets look at the following case:
- Use AS as the focus dump outside of CA phase and when not under dynamic haste effect; otherwise, use AI.
- Has T11 4-set
- Has the SS/AS/CS glyph combination

Since the Standard phase unhasted is the portion of the fight that you should normally be in the longest, I like to start with it. The recommendation in the OP is a CS-ASx2-SSx5 cycle that has a high-limit of about 15.12% for a tight CS rotation (not including latency and reaction times) on cycles without an MMM AI proc but to have about 0.2s deadtime on cycles with a MMM AI proc. It indicates that you only need about 10.52% to have a tight rotation on cycles with an MMM AI proc, but that you will have about 0.25s delay in your CS cast on cycles without the MMM AI proc. So ideally if acquiring haste had no cost, to maximize the benefit of the CS glyph during this situation, you want somewhere between 10.52% and 15.12% haste. However, with acquiring haste having a cost in crit and mastery and how much that cost is depends on your overall ilevel of gear, the actual maximum DPS point varies from player to player. They key though is that the ideal range is between 10.52% and 15.12% with realizing that even less haste may be okay with the penalty of delaying your CS casts more.

When hasted during the Standard phase, the best rotation appears to be CS-AIx2-SSx5. This only requires 6% haste from gear to be both tight and sustainable, even on cycles with an AI MMM proc. Since this haste requirement is less than that for the Standard phase unhasted, it is already supportable by your choice for the Standard phase unhasted and skews the maximum overall DPS case to be at closer to the lower end of the range.

What is probably the second most important maximum DPS phase to the Standard phase unhasted is the CA phase during RF. It has short duration (only 30s), but does by far our highest DPS, especially with trinket procs and racials. The recommendation is CS-AIx3-SSx7. This rotation is supported by the recommend haste range and results in a cycle time of just over 12s with the amount over depending on where in the haste range you are. It provides about 2.6 to 2.9s of leeway in refreshing SrS with the recommended haste range. Focus is not really a concern with this rotation within the recommended haste range. Where you are in the haste range does not have a large impact since the cycle time only varies by less than 0.2s. A little bit less haste than the low end of the range is probably still fine.

When unhasted during the CA phase, a CS-AIx2-SSx7 rotation is recommended (same rotation as during CA RF but with one less AI). The recently added table in the OP illustrates that with the recommended haste range that each cycle will have at least 1 to 2s leeway to refresh SrS and even more time on cycles with a MMM AI proc. This cycle is also recommended during Bloodlust in the CA phase but with the extra haste resulting in a shorter CS cycle (with more leeway in refreshing SrS) and better focus balancing.

I have not gotten around to analyzing the Termination phase since its lasts only about 5% of the fight length and many people are not talented for it. It is low priority and probably not worth changing your Standard phase rotation in many cases. Although, I do recognize that in some situations that DPS could be gained by maximizing your rotation for the additional focus regen from SS casts.

I still need to analyze the KS phase as well, but I am not too concerned with it since it should have similar outcomes as that for replacing shots with AI MMM procs, except now there are more occurences per cycle.

Anyway, the rotation analysis definitely indicates that although an exact haste number is not recommended for which to shoot, that a range of haste from gear between about 10.5% to 15% is ideal with where you fall in that range being dependent on what your gear can ideally support and which fight phases you want to maximize for your personal preference.

Similar analyses can be performed for other situations, but here I just provided the information for the case I am currently following. For my gear, just getting over the 10.5% haste from gear is about the amount that my gear can support.

Last edited by Whitefyst : 03/11/11 at 2:45 PM.

United States Offline
Old 03/11/11, 6:42 PM   #303
chinoquezada
Von Kaiser
 
chinoquezada's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Gavinas View Post
This is incorrect. If you're interested in modeling an exact rotation in Simcraft you can use a sequence action to do it. However, since that is not how you actually play MM, as the OP mentions, the default action list is set up as a priority system without any sequences.

Unlike BM/SV where you're always sticking to a 6s cycle I don't believe there is any point in aiming for a specific haste value for MM.
Since our priorities vary between the Careful Aim, standard, dynamically hasted, and Kill Shot/Termination phases the amount of haste needed to have a tight rotation in each phase will vary, as is clear from the OP's haste calculations. Additionally, even when you have a tight rotation that is nominally focus neutral, the distribution of MMM procs will force you to deviate from that rotation when you get a streak of lucky/unlucky RNG.
The simulation required is not that of a static rotation, but a shot cycles for different phases in which the "order is flexible". Such logic, I reiterate, is not one that can be simulated with the current tools.

For the 2nd part, I believe Whitefyst has lengthily explained it in the post above this one. But, again to reiterate, the aim in haste rating is to have the tightest rotation possible during standard phase.


Offline
Old 03/11/11, 7:17 PM   #304
Gavinas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
The simulation required is not that of a static rotation, but a shot cycles for different phases in which the "order is flexible". Such logic, I reiterate, is not one that can be simulated with the current tools.

For the 2nd part, I believe Whitefyst has lengthily explained it in the post above this one. But, again to reiterate, the aim in haste rating is to have the tightest rotation possible during standard phase.
This is incorrect, any priority that you use in game can be modelled in simcraft. For example, the current default action list when using the arcane shot glyph uses only ss and AiS during CA, arcane shot as focus dump outside CA and dynamic haste effects, AiS as the focus dump during RF/heroism, and delays CS during RF/heroism. It also prioritizes maintaining the ISS buff etc.

I don't disagree that having a rough idea of what your rotation will be like in various phases is useful, although in practice I personally find it easier to choose shots on the fly based on current focus levels, cd times and buff status. The main factor making me say that aiming for specific haste amounts is pointless is that crit always sims higher or even with haste and mastery is 25%+ lower so that in practice reforging is a matter of getting to the hit cap, reforging to crit if the piece doesn't have it or haste if it does, and to leave crit/haste pieces as is.

United States Offline
Old 03/12/11, 4:38 AM   #305
Satyric
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Hunter
 
Shattered Hand (EU)
Originally Posted by aijlad View Post
That's great for normal modes, but the heroic versions offer a different perspective. For instance, on Maloriak heroic during dark phase you are going to be moving constantly to get out of the slime unless you are just ridiculously lucky. But even then you may not find a "safe" spot that is always in range of the adds. There are plenty of other examples of how heroic modes force you to move much more frequently and sporadically than normal modes. That's why Arcane Shot typically does better. If you are constantly interrupting your Aimed Shots to move you are going to suffer much more than if you just used Arcane Shot except in those moments when you know you can just let loose...as Noleafclover pointed out above.
I don't know how Maloriac HC is a problem, I always stay on Maloriak due to inferior aoe damage and you can see the swills ~3 seconds before they land. I never have to cancel an aimed shot in black phase if I'm doing it right. The only hardmode I've enctountered that favor AS is Atramedes.

Sweden Offline
Old 03/12/11, 11:42 AM   #306
chinoquezada
Von Kaiser
 
chinoquezada's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
The simulation required is not that of a static rotation, but a shot cycles for different phases in which the "order is flexible". Such logic, I reiterate, is not one that can be simulated with the current tools.

For the 2nd part, I believe Whitefyst has lengthily explained it in the post above this one. But, again to reiterate, the aim in haste rating is to have the tightest rotation possible during standard phase.
I believe you are not grasping the difference between Priority, Rotation, and Shot Cycle with flexible order. Using simcraft with a priority based on focus levels and buff time remaining comes close to the shot cycle, but its not a sim of the shot cycle itself.

If you have some knowledge in basic Discrete Math, think of the "Shot Cycle with flexible order" as a Combination (math concept) of elements in which, for this particular case, SSx2 must exist at least once and CS must be used at the beginning/end of the cycle.


Offline
Old 03/12/11, 7:43 PM   #307
Gavinas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
I believe you are not grasping the difference between Priority, Rotation, and Shot Cycle with flexible order. Using simcraft with a priority based on focus levels and buff time remaining comes close to the shot cycle, but its not a sim of the shot cycle itself.

If you have some knowledge in basic Discrete Math, think of the "Shot Cycle with flexible order" as a Combination (math concept) of elements in which, for this particular case, SSx2 must exist at least once and CS must be used at the beginning/end of the cycle.
I understand what you're saying, but I believe that all of the shot cycles we're talking about can be equivalently represented using a priority list. In fact, I believe all of the shot cycles are essentially the result of predetermining the results of applying a priority list to the various phases of interest where the priority list consists roughly of: Use CS on CD, keep up ISS, use all focus and use SS when there's nothing else to do and it wont delay CS significantly. Take a look at the sample action sequences available when you expand the action priority list of any simcraft results.

United States Offline
Old 03/13/11, 1:25 AM   #308
Squall13
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Eredar
The very interesting thing I see in this patch is that in higher levels of gear, the stat values are too close that it I think it needs a second look on BiS levels.

Notably, checking WoL I saw logs of hunters (mainly Paragon's hunters) reforging out of Crit and dumping it to Haste then Mastery and still attain amazing results despite what sims and stay weights say.

Offline
Old 03/13/11, 5:28 PM   #309
aceofanarchy
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Gurubashi
Hello All,
not to sure if this is the correct thread for this question but, does any one happen to know what the average haste increase number is for Rapid Fire? I'm Looking into 4.2 with the new trinkets and am currently playing with http: Hungerer comparing just how long and how much dps can be gained by using this trinket appropriately. I don't believe it's as simple as (haste) x .4 because if you look at the % value mine jumps up another 5% after I use my RF (Not glyphed). Does anyone happen to know a good calculation for this? I know it's going to be different for each person. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Last edited by aceofanarchy : 03/13/11 at 5:47 PM.

Offline
Old 03/14/11, 11:40 AM   #310
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by aceofanarchy View Post
not to sure if this is the correct thread for this question but, does any one happen to know what the average haste increase number is for Rapid Fire? I'm Looking into 4.2 with the new trinkets and am currently playing with http: Hungerer comparing just how long and how much dps can be gained by using this trinket appropriately. I don't believe it's as simple as (haste) x .4 because if you look at the % value mine jumps up another 5% after I use my RF (Not glyphed). Does anyone happen to know a good calculation for this? I know it's going to be different for each person. Any help would be much appreciated.
I do not know whether this answers your question or not. Unglyphed RF is 40% haste, and glyphed is 50%. If you want to know how much haste that is averaged out over a fight, it depends on the fight length and how many times you used RF. Using a 5 min fight as an example, you should be able to use RF 4 times for 1 min of the 5 min duration, or 20% of the time. Hence, the average effect of RF over the fight is 8% unglyphed and 10% glyphed.

However, I would not suggest using the average numbers in any analysis since it is misleading. Using the average number is not too bad when looking at autoshot and WQ procs from them, but it is when looking at specials and the number of them that can be performed as well as the impacts to your CS cycle time. In addition, 8% additional haste may not be enough to make using AI worthwhile instead of AS, but 40% haste definitely is.

The trinket you list appears to provide about 12% (normal) and 13.5% (heroic) haste for 15s every minute. Thus, the average values appear to be 3% and 3.375%. But once again, using the average value is misleading. An additional 3 to 3.375% haste is not necessarily enough to make it worthwhile using AI instead of AS as your focus dump, but 12% or 13.5% is. At 12% from the trinket and 10.5% haste from gear, AI casts are under 1.8s when the trinket procs, making it worthwhile to cast if able too.

Hence, especially with the base agility, this trinket has some possibilities but will have to be weighed against the other trinkets once we see the full list.

As far as how much DPS can be gained by using the trinket, there is no good answer. It not only varies from player to player but varies for a player from fight phase to fight phase, with shot selection, and depending on how well they are stacking other procs with it and utilizing the haste.

Since you can control when the effect occurs when off its ICD by going below 20% focus, you can use it during the CA phase to reduce your AI cast time. However, even in this situation the benefit varies depending on when you use it and how long your CA phase is. If your CA phase is only 30s, then I would stack it on top of RF for very fast AIs. If your CA phase is longer than 30s, then I would use it after RF to not only haste more AIs but to also haste your SSs so that you will have both more focus and time to cast additional AIs in the phase.

During the Standard phase, I wouldn't stack it with RF since using it with RF doesn't affect your SS casts much if at all. I would use it outside of RF to increase hasted AI cast times and so it affects SS cast time as well.

United States Offline
Old 03/15/11, 9:44 PM   #311
Dispiosan
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by aceofanarchy View Post
Hello All,
not to sure if this is the correct thread for this question but, does any one happen to know what the average haste increase number is for Rapid Fire? I'm Looking into 4.2 with the new trinkets and am currently playing with http: Hungerer comparing just how long and how much dps can be gained by using this trinket appropriately. I don't believe it's as simple as (haste) x .4 because if you look at the % value mine jumps up another 5% after I use my RF (Not glyphed). Does anyone happen to know a good calculation for this? I know it's going to be different for each person. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

If the above post didn't answer your question and you are in fact looking for the ratings, refer to the OP of this thread for some possible enlightenment.

My guess is you're in fact trying to compare the haste ratings. In such a case...

Standalone unglyphed RF = 5122.28 haste rating (40%)
Standalone glyphed RF = 6402.85 haste rating (50%)

Offline
Old 03/16/11, 10:32 PM   #312
chinoquezada
Von Kaiser
 
chinoquezada's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Haste Calculations to Account for Latency

BIG EDIT:
Looked good in paper but Whitefyst gave it a run and had quite few mistakes. Please refer to his post (the one after this) for the correct numbers.



I've been working on the calculations of how much haste is required to account for latency. Here are my results:

Latency (ms) CS-ASx2-MMM AI (s) SSx4 (s) Actual Cycle Time (s) Haste to Account for Latency (rating)
0 4.00 4.94 8.94 -1.41
50 4.20 5.14 9.34 7.87
100 4.40 5.34 9.74 17.15
150 4.60 5.54 10.14 26.43
200 4.80 5.74 10.54 35.71
250 5.00 5.94 10.94 44.99
300 5.20 6.14 11.34 54.27
350 5.40 6.34 11.74 63.55
400 5.60 6.54 12.14 72.83
450 5.80 6.74 12.54 82.11
500 6.00 6.94 12.94 91.39
http://i54.tinypic.com/s41lxz.jpg

.xls file with all the calculations.

Notes:
- Only valid for hunter's with 4pc t11 and CS glyph
- "Haste to Account for Latency (rating)" is the extra rating (beyond 10.52% - 1347) to make the standard phase unhasted cycle with a MMM AI Proc a tight 9s cycle given your latency (on steps of 50 ms)
- This calculation is based on the idea that while latency increases GCDs and Cast Times, haste is only able to reduce SS Cast Time. CS-ASx2-MMM AI-SSx4 is the summary of this cycle. Details below.
- The first result is a -1.41 because 10.52% is only an approximation to a tight 9s cycle, not an exact one (refer to the standard phase unhasted calculations on the OP)
- I'm unfamiliar with how tables are presented here so I've uploaded a pic of my excel file and link to the actual file with the calculations. (Edit: changed, see reason for edit below)



Calculation Details:

L = Latency in ms
HL = Haste to account for latency

Cycle Time Accounting for Latency

(4)(L/1000) + (4)(1.38)(100-10.52)/100 + (4)(L/1000) = x secs


Haste to Account for Latency and Perform a 9s tight cycle

(4)(1.38)(HL) = x - 9

HL = (x - 9) / (4 x 1.38) (in percentage)
HL rating = HL x 128.057

Last edited by chinoquezada : 03/17/11 at 1:51 PM. Reason: Edit2: Whitefyst corrected the analysis, look below. Edit1: Added Table Form. Thx Lokrick :)


Offline
Old 03/17/11, 12:06 PM   #313
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
I've been working on the calculations of how much haste is required to account for latency.
There are a few problems with your analysis

1) At the 10.52% haste recommended, the SS cast time is just below 1.25s and rounds to it. Thus, the 4 SS casts are 5s total. This is just a minor thing.

2) You are applying the latency to both your instant casts shots and your cast time shots. In this scenario with a 1.25s SS cast time which is greater than the 1s GCD, you can queue your next shot during the end of a SS and eliminate latency for those attacks.

3) With SS cast time limited to the 1s GCD with at most 0.25s to reduce and an equal number of shots affected by latency as there are SSs to make up for it, this means that the highest amount of latency that can be corrected for with this rotation being 250 ms. Thus, any latency amount greater than 250 ms cannot be corrected by any level of haste with this rotation. If you have more than that latency, your are probably better off not using the CS glyph or removing an AS from the cycle. Actually, the limitation is even a little lower than that since when you SS is at the GCD, you can no longer queue the next shot to make up for latency. Thus, the real ceiling where this rotation can no longer make up for the latency is around 125 ms, which is half the SS cast time over the GCD. Here you can reduce the SS cast time by 0.125s to make up for the latency for attacks after the instant cast shots and have enough cast time in your SS to queue the next shot to eliminate the latency.

4) You missed a factor of 100 when converting the haste requirement specified as a decimal to the haste rating. The 128.057 is per percentage of haste not decimal value.

Here is my version of the table:

Latency (ms)CS-ASx2-MMM AI (s)SSx4 (s)Actual Cycle Time (s)Haste (%)*Haste (rating)*SS Cast Savings (s)New Cycle Time (s)
04.005.009.000.00%00.0009.00
504.205.009.204.17%5340.2009.00
1004.405.009.408.70%11140.4009.00
1504.605.009.6013.64%17460.6009.00
2004.805.009.8019.05%24390.8009.00
2505.005.0010.0025.00%32011.0009.00
* Additional haste required to account for the latency and maintain a tight rotation

As can be seen, with this rotation, it requires a little over 4% haste from gear to make up for the first 50 ms of latency. I usually run at around 100ms, which would require almost 9% additional haste to make up for. With how costly that is on top of my current haste amount, I choose to just take the about .4s hit to my rotation cycle time. But as I get better gear and can afford more haste, I plan to add a little more to account for some of the latency.

You may ask here whether the CS glyph is still worthwhile with the delays from latency, and the answer is still yes, assuming that the latency is not too large. Whether you have a rotation for a 9s or 10s CS CD, you are going to have about the same amount of latency affect it and you are still going to be able to perform your CS cast earlier. In my case with 100 ms latency, having the CS glyph means that I can cast my CS at about 9.4s instead of about 10.5s without the CS glyph.

Last edited by Whitefyst : 03/17/11 at 12:25 PM.

United States Offline
Old 03/17/11, 1:56 PM   #314
chinoquezada
Von Kaiser
 
chinoquezada's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Whitefyst View Post
There are a few problems with your analysis
Thanks for correcting it. I've put a cautionary noted bolded on top of my post. Maybe you could a short note of this analysis to the op.

Oh and silly me, I made the most common scientific mistake of all. I did see that extra 100 factor, but thought it must be a mistake due to percetange/decimal change at the start of my calculations and simply removed it. You know, because the numbers were so large and that just can't be...


Offline
Old 03/17/11, 3:38 PM   #315
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
Maybe you could a short note of this analysis to the op.

I made the most common scientific mistake of all. I did see that extra 100 factor, but thought it must be a mistake due to percetange/decimal change at the start of my calculations and simply removed it. You know, because the numbers were so large and that just can't be...
To be honest, I did not expect the large number of haste rating myself and had to double check my results including adding in the last two columns to verify the results.

Concerning adding something in the OP about this, I would prefer not too add anything additional to what the OP already generally has on latency. The reasons for this include that the OP is large enough already and this type of information is very dependent on your glyphing, haste on gear, and shot selection. It is not really one size fits all.

For instance, the analysis table on latency above only applies for the given condition of a CS-ASx2-MMM AI-SSx4 rotation with the CS/AS/SS glyphs for someone with the T11 4-set. It also applies to any other rotation with 4 instants and 4 steadies over a 9s CS cycle. Hence, it applies to the Standard phase unhasted on MMM AI cycles and the KS phase unhasted. It does not apply to other situations.

The data for the Standard phase unhasted on cycles without an MMM AI proc with the 10.52% haste from gear is where a CS-ASx2-SSx5 rotation works best:

Latency (ms)CS-ASx2 (s)SSx5 (s)Actual Cycle Time (s)Haste (%)*Haste (rating)*SS Cast Savings (s)New Cycle Time (s)
03.006.259.250.00%00.0009.25
503.156.259.402.46%3150.1509.25
1003.306.259.555.04%6460.3009.25
1503.456.259.707.76%9940.4509.25
2003.606.259.8510.62%13600.6009.25
2503.756.2510.0013.64%17460.7509.25
* Additional haste required to account for the latency and maintain a tight rotation

The requirements to make up for latency in this case is a lot less since although there are still 8 shot being performed. you have both 1 less instant cast shot incurring latency and 1 more cast shot that can be reduced to eliminate it. In this case, up to 156ms of latency can be eliminated by adding more haste on gear to maintain the tight rotation.

The best case latency situation for the recommendation I have for players with the T11 4-set is during the CA phase unhasted with the CS-AIx2-SSx7 rotation since only one shot, CS, incurs the latency penalty and you have 9 shots in which to make it up. The data in this case is:

Latency (ms)CSSSx7 (s)AIx2 (s)Actual Cycle Time (s)Haste (%)*Haste (rating)*SS Cast Savings (s)New Cycle Time (s)
01.008.754.0313.780.00%00.00013.78
501.058.754.0313.830.39%500.05013.78
1001.108.754.0313.880.78%1000.09913.78
1501.158.754.0313.931.17%1500.14813.78
2001.208.754.0313.981.57%2000.19713.78
2501.258.754.0314.031.96%2510.24513.78
3001.308.754.0314.082.35%3010.29313.78
3501.358.754.0314.132.74%3510.34113.79
4001.408.754.0314.183.13%4010.38813.79
4501.458.754.0314.233.52%4510.43513.79
5001.508.754.0314.283.91%5010.48113.80
* Additional haste required to account for the latency and maintain a tight rotation

As can be seen, the above rotation requires very little additional haste from gear to make up for latency, which is good considering the small window you have for refreshing SrS before it falls off. An interesting coincidence to note with the above case is that the amount of haste rating required to make up for the latency is the roughly the same as the amount of latency in ms.

As one final example, let's look at the CA phase during RF, which is our highest DPS portion of the fight. The rotation here is CS-AIx3-SSx7. Note that since the SS cast time is at 0.89s, it is below the GCD and incurs latency. SS casts can be treated like the instant cast attacks. Thus, with 8 "instant" attacks, this rotation is our rotation that is the most impacted by latency.

Latency (ms)CS-SSx7 (s)AIx2 (s)Actual Cycle Time (s)Haste (%)Haste (rating)Cast Savings (s)New Cycle Time (s)
08.002.8810.880.00%00.00010.88
508.402.8811.2816.15%20680.40010.88
1008.802.8811.6838.52%49330.80010.88
1509.202.8812.0871.56%91641.20010.88
2009.602.8812.48125.30%160451.60010.88
25010.002.8812.88228.06%292052.00010.88

I show in the table up to 250 ms, but this rotation can only make up for latency of up to a little under 110ms since the 2 AI casts can't make up more time lost to latency above that amount due to the GCD limitation.

Last edited by Whitefyst : 03/17/11 at 3:44 PM.

United States Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Hunters

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Cataclysm] Beast Mastery (4.3) Nooska Hunters 197 04/30/12 4:51 PM