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04/01/11, 6:16 PM
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#346
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Glass Joe
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Ive come to feel like hard casting AiS is better if your going to be MM that fight. And for all fights with alot of moving or aoe Surv has shown to be better for me.
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04/01/11, 6:48 PM
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#347
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Caycay
Ive come to feel like hard casting AiS is better if your going to be MM that fight. And for all fights with alot of moving or aoe Surv has shown to be better for me.
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That is definitely a legitimate choice someone can make; but there really is no reason MM cannot be successful on a movement fight. With autoshots firing now while moving, that takes advantage of MMs autoshot buff and still allows chances for WQ procs from autoshot while moving.
For short movements, the impact should be small since your can use your instants while moving and your SSs to regain focus after stopping. Remember that a rotation like CS-ASx2-SSx4 or 5 is highly flexible with a wide range of ordering of the shots allowed.
For long movements, you can go into Fox and continue close to a full AS focus dump rotation.
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04/01/11, 7:46 PM
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#348
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Von Kaiser
Troll Hunter
Twisting Nether
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Originally Posted by Caycay
Ive come to feel like hard casting AiS is better if your going to be MM that fight. And for all fights with alot of moving or aoe Surv has shown to be better for me.
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You should also keep in mind where your raid stands in regard to the 10% AP and the 10% physical haste buffs you could be bringing. If someone is already bringing the 10% physical haste, but not the 10% AP, you could be hurting your raid's overall DPS significantly by going Surv, even if your playstyle promotes Surv for you personally during certain fights. Of course some raids will already have both buffs regardless, so there's no need to worry about that in that case.
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04/05/11, 4:09 PM
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#349
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Hunter
Twisting Nether
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Originally Posted by Pogonophobia
I am interested in what starting rotations people are using currently. As we wall know the start of every fight is generally our highest DPS due to CA and starting RF, and is often also lower movement than later phases. In general I start with:
Potion of the Potion of the Tol'vir (if I am not saving for a burn phase)
RF
Readiness
AI / SS alternating till RF ends
RF
AI / SS alternating till RF ends
SrS
CS
Enter "standard rotation" for either AI or AS depending on the fight and my anticipated need to move often
I have also tried adding SSx2 proceeding each RF for some extra haste but it doesnt seem to be worth it. Curious what everyone else uses as their opening? Is it worth it to try to keep SrS up or ISS up during RF?
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Just one note on your post which I didn't see covered elsewhere, although I might have missed it. On almost all fights you don't really have to make a choice on using the Potion of the Tol'vir at the start of the pull or not. As long as you use it 1-2 seconds before the start of the pull, and thus going into combat, you'll start your potion CD going (since you are out of combat right before the pull) and thus be able to use a 2nd potion later in the fight while still getting the benefit of 25-28 seconds or so of the first potion too.
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04/05/11, 4:12 PM
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#350
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Hunter
Twisting Nether
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Originally Posted by Manveru
Personally I'm going with (assuming I put Hunter's Mark before pull): SrS>RF/CoTW>CS>SSx2>AiS>Readiness>AiS. Looks strange at first glance perhaps but I've found out that if I use Readiness right after the first AiS I don't have to wait for focus for second AiS. Might be a haste issue obviously, but generally this seems to work.
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One thing here is if CS (I bolded the cast in question in your post) is an instant cast what is the net gain of using RF right before it instead of starting after it when you are hitting your sequence of casts that actually have a cast time that can be reduced?
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04/05/11, 6:51 PM
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#351
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Focault
One thing here is if CS (I bolded the cast in question in your post) is an instant cast what is the net gain of using RF right before it instead of starting after it when you are hitting your sequence of casts that actually have a cast time that can be reduced?
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I agree with you. If you are going to use CS, it is best to do so before casting RF so you do not waste as much of its benefit on an instant cast shot.
However, to improve on this some more, there really is no reason to cast CS at the start of the fight. This is not pre-4.0.6 where CS was our hardest hitting shot. AI is now our hardest hitting shot, and it hits even for much more than CS during the initial part of a fight. All CS should be used for during the CA phase is to extend SrS; otherwise, all focus should be spent on casting AI.
Not including pet abilities, potions, or trinkets, I recommend the following default abilities being used at the start of the fight with assuming that Hunter's Mark and MD are cast pre-pull:
SrS (hopefully the one and only cast that is maintained throughout the fight)
RF (can use Readiness here too - refresh RF after it runs out)
AI (prefer casting this first to use focus instead of 2 SSs to gain ISS and lose focus - can also often cast a second one too if have sufficient haste)
SSx2
(repeat AI-SSx2 until CS to refresh SrS)
CS
With using a conservative focus usage approach and always doing SS pairs, the RF portion at the start of the fight looks like with assuming CS/AS/SS glyphs, the recommended 10.52% haste, and 100ms latency:
| Shot | End Time | Focus | Notes | | | 0.000 | 100.000 | | | SrS | 1.100 | 79.553 | Should be one and only cast | | RF/Read | 2.200 | 90.966 | Readiness can be done immediately since not resetting any CDs going to use soon | | AI | 3.854 | 58.128 | Prefer AI first to use focus instead of wasting focus with SS pair for ISS | | SS | 4.954 | 78.540 | | | SS | 6.054 | 98.953 | ISS started | | AI | 7.493 | 63.877 | | | SS | 8.593 | 84.289 | | | SS | 9.693 | 100.000 | Caps focus | | AI | 11.131 | 64.924 | | | SS | 12.231 | 85.336 | | | SS | 13.331 | 100.000 | Caps focus | | CS | 14.431 | 67.412 | Refresh SrS with about 1.6s to spare | | SS | 15.531 | 87.825 | | | SS | 16.631 | 100.000 | RF runs out during this cast; Caps focus | | RF | 16.631 | 100.000 | | | AI | 18.070 | 64.924 | | | SS | 19.170 | 85.336 | | | SS | 20.270 | 100.000 | Caps focus | | AI | 21.708 | 64.924 | | | SS | 22.808 | 85.336 | | | SS | 23.908 | 100.000 | Caps focus | | AI | 25.347 | 64.924 | | | SS | 26.447 | 85.336 | | | SS | 27.547 | 100.000 | | | CS | 28.647 | 67.412 | Refreshes SrS with abut 0.8s to spare. Can skip an SS to do earlier. | | SS | 29.747 | 87.825 | | | SS | 30.847 | 100.000 | Caps focus | | AI | 32.285 | 64.924 | RF runs out during this cast |
This does in 32.285s:
CS: 2
AS: 7
SS: 16
The problem with the above is that it wastes some focus and also casts some extra SSs that do not necessarily need to be cast for focus or to maintain ISS. An improvement is:
| Shot | End Time | Focus | Notes | | | 0.000 | 100.000 | | | SrS | 1.100 | 79.553 | Should be one and only cast | | RF/Read | 2.200 | 90.966 | Readiness can be done immediately since not resetting any CDs going to use soon | | AI | 3.854 | 58.128 | Prefer AI first to use focus instead of wasting focus with SS pair for ISS | | SS | 4.954 | 78.540 | | | SS | 6.054 | 98.953 | ISS Started | | AI | 7.493 | 63.877 | | | AI | 8.931 | 28.800 | Prefer second AI to prevent focus capping | | SS | 10.031 | 49.213 | | | SS | 11.131 | 69.625 | | | AI | 12.570 | 34.549 | | | SS | 13.670 | 54.961 | Only need single SS to have enough focus for CS | | CS | 14.770 | 22.373 | Refreshes SrS with about 1.4s to spare | | SS | 15.870 | 42.786 | | | SS | 16.970 | 56.794 | RF runs out during this cast; Using non-RF focus regen for duration of cast | | RF | 16.970 | 56.794 | | | AI | 18.408 | 21.718 | | | SS | 19.508 | 42.130 | | | SS | 20.608 | 62.543 | | | AI | 22.047 | 27.467 | | | SS | 23.147 | 47.879 | | | SS | 24.247 | 68.291 | | | AI | 25.685 | 33.215 | | | SS | 26.785 | 53.627 | Only need single SS to have enough focus for CS | | CS | 27.885 | 21.040 | Refreshes SrS with about 1.9s to spare | | SS | 28.985 | 41.452 | | | SS | 30.085 | 61.864 | | | AI | 31.524 | 26.788 | | | SS | 32.624 | 47.200 | RF runs out during this cast |
This does in 32.624s:
CS: 2
AS: 8
SS: 15
This option takes a little longer since it fires one more AI instead of an SS, but it definitely does more DPS because of it without wasting any focus. The focus situation and number of AIs in both cases is a little higher since I did not factor in the random MMM AI procs. About 2 MMM AI procs should occur. In the first case, I would use them to replace the extra SSs to help reduce the focus overflow a little bit and to not change the timing. In the second case, they can be added in as additional shots since CS always has more than 1.1s to spare before refreshing SrS.
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04/06/11, 6:22 AM
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#352
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Hunter
Frostmane (EU)
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Is it really worth it to apply and refresh SrS for the first 80% of the fight? I would think that aimed and steady shot spam alone would be better since CS uses almost same amount of focus as aimed, while doing less than half the damage. With using rapid fire or heroism at the start of the fight i see even less reason to even bother applying SrS before 80% mark.
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04/06/11, 2:43 PM
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#353
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Piestalker
Is it really worth it to apply and refresh SrS for the first 80% of the fight? I would think that aimed and steady shot spam alone would be better since CS uses almost same amount of focus as aimed, while doing less than half the damage. With using rapid fire or heroism at the start of the fight i see even less reason to even bother applying SrS before 80% mark.
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Well, I thought that it was and that previous analysis done for the OP proved it. However, while using FD currently to provide additional proof, I need to amend my position. When I had previously done the analysis by hand and FD, I had done it over the course of the whole fight instead of focusing solely on the CA phase (as I know I now can in FD), so that probably clouded the results. Plus, our understanding of certain mechanics that affect this analysis have improved since then and been updated in FD. These include:
- ISS not affecting focus regen (less focus to use on average)
- Better understanding and modeling of autoshot loss during AI casts
- My personal knowledge of how latency impacts shots
I has also originally started my reply by saying that the difference is just not CS damage versus AI damage, for which AI clearly wins. It is the CS + SrS + autoshots that are locked out during AI cast + the partial cast that can be done in the extra time above a GCD and latency that the AI takes + extra WQ damage versus the AI damage. This is still true and pertinent, so I am leaving it.
Next is some data from FD. I set up FD to be a 1 min CA phase only fight with the best case AI scenario of RF over the first 30s followed by Bloodlust. This analysis is using a 372 gear set with 13.23% haste from gear.
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 42353 DPS (recommended set up for full fight)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 43285 DPS (+932 DPS) (switching glyphs to optimize for this phase since not casting CS off CD or using AS)
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and and Disable CS and SrS: 43446 DPS (+1092) (even keeping the full fight glyphs and disabling CS and SrS is better)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and Disable CS and SrS: 45555 DPS (+3202 DPS)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and Remove CS and SrS: 46390 DPS (+4027 DPS)
Note that this last 835 DPS gain surprised me since I didn't think there should be a difference between the two cases, and I originally thought it was a bug. However, I then realized the difference was due to the Save Focus for CS option where enough focus was being saved to cast both AI and CS although CS was not being used. With CS still in the priority list but the save focus for it option cleared, the results have the additional 835 DPS too.
Okay, this initial set of data surprised me a bit. So in this optimal case, it does appear its better to forgo CS and SrS. However, let's be a little more realistic and forgo the Bloodlust in the second half of the CA phase.
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 40156 DPS (recommended set up for full fight)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 40307 DPS (+151 DPS) (switching glyphs to optimize for this phase since not casting CS off CD or using AS)
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and and Disable CS and SrS: 40509 DPS (+353 DPS) (even keeping the full fight glyphs and disabling CS and SrS is better)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and Disable CS or SrS: 41150 DPS (+843 DPS)
Still here it appears that it is a benefit to forgo CS and SrS again, but I believe that is solely due to the RF part, so I am repeating the analysis with no dynamic haste effects.
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 37011 DPS (recommended set up for full fight)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and Disable CS or SrS: 36433 DPS -587 DPS)
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and and Disable CS and SrS: 36966 DPS (-45 DPS) (even keeping the full fight glyphs and disabling CS and SrS it is about the same)
SS/RF/AI glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 37444 DPS (+433 DPS) (switching glyphs to optimize for this phase since not casting CS off CD or using AS)
So in conclusion, I now recommend the following during the CA phase and will update the OP accordingly:
- If under dynamic haste effects (RF or Bloodlust) during the CA phase, it is best to forgo CS and SrS
- Once dynamic haste effects wear off, it is generally best to start up your SrS and CS use.
Of course, the caveat here is the amount of haste on gear you have. With less haste on gear, the results still held true. With a little more than 1% haste on gear (somewhere about 14.5%), your unhasted AI cast becomes quick enough where it is best to forgo CS and SrS the whole CA phase.
Last edited by Whitefyst : 04/06/11 at 2:59 PM.
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04/06/11, 2:57 PM
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#354
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Piestalker
Is it really worth it to apply and refresh SrS for the first 80% of the fight? I would think that aimed and steady shot spam alone would be better since CS uses almost same amount of focus as aimed, while doing less than half the damage. With using rapid fire or heroism at the start of the fight i see even less reason to even bother applying SrS before 80% mark.
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While CS itself does much less damage than AiS, the actual ticks of SrS may be enough to make SrS + CS (for refresh only) worth using. In Whitefyst's example above, there's the initial cast of SrS plus 2 CS refreshes during the first 32 seconds of the fight, for a total of 3 GCDs (3 seconds) and 113 focus used. If you were to use that time and focus on AiS instead, you'd get (roughly) 2 extra casts in. Compare AiS x2 damage to the combined SrS ticks plus CS x2 damage (I'll do this when I get home), and I'm guessing you'll be better off keeping SrS and CS (for refresh only) in the rotation.
Edit: Disregard, Whitefyst's response above is far more detailed and accurate than mine. 
Last edited by lolzorz : 04/06/11 at 3:02 PM.
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04/07/11, 12:32 AM
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#355
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by lolzorz
While CS itself does much less damage than AiS, the actual ticks of SrS may be enough to make SrS + CS (for refresh only) worth using. In Whitefyst's example above, there's the initial cast of SrS plus 2 CS refreshes during the first 32 seconds of the fight, for a total of 3 GCDs (3 seconds) and 113 focus used. If you were to use that time and focus on AiS instead, you'd get (roughly) 2 extra casts in. Compare AiS x2 damage to the combined SrS ticks plus CS x2 damage (I'll do this when I get home), and I'm guessing you'll be better off keeping SrS and CS (for refresh only) in the rotation.
Edit: Disregard, Whitefyst's response above is far more detailed and accurate than mine. 
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Don't forget about the Piercing shots bleed that does 30% of all the aimed and steady crits you get during careful aim.
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04/07/11, 7:02 AM
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#356
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Von Kaiser
Orc Hunter
Mannoroth (EU)
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Originally Posted by Tregetour
Don't forget about the Piercing shots bleed that does 30% of all the aimed and steady crits you get during careful aim.
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Our CS does also benefit from PS, so there ist only a small gain from the bonus crit% during CA. Due to the test where made with FD the PS dmg is already considered in whitefyst numbers:
Originally Posted by Whitefyst
Okay, this initial set of data surprised me a bit. So in this optimal case, it does appear its better to forgo CS and SrS. However, let's be a little more realistic and forgo the Bloodlust in the second half of the CA phase.
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and CS delay < 2.9s: 40156 DPS (recommended set up for full fight)
[...]
SS/CS/AS glyphs, ISS refresh < 4s, and and Disable CS and SrS: 40509 DPS (+353 DPS) (even keeping the full fight glyphs and disabling CS and SrS is better)
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If i might have to change position or have the risk to interupt any Aim, I suggest it would beneficial to stick to the normal rotation and use this situations to get off a CS while moving.
other topic:
Originally Posted by Whitefyst
4.4 Enchants
Excluding profession bonuses, the best MM hunter enchants are:
[...]
• Range Weapon – Gnomisk X-ray Scope – 800 AP proc or R19 Threatfinder - 88 hit
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I stick with the X-ray now since cata release. But I get the feeling it isnt worth it. Looking at my Logs I never got a uptime near 20%. So in simple math, 20% would provide 160 AP overall with bear in mind 1 hit = 2AP it seems that 88 hit gives use way more utility. Think I enchant my next weapon whith R19..
What experience have you made? Why does so many Hunter use X-ray over R19?
Last edited by Nerec : 04/07/11 at 7:22 AM.
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04/07/11, 8:44 AM
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#357
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Whitefyst
Of course, the caveat here is the amount of haste on gear you have. With less haste on gear, the results still held true. With a little more than 1% haste on gear (somewhere about 14.5%), your unhasted AI cast becomes quick enough where it is best to forgo CS and SrS the whole CA phase.
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So are you saying that if you have 14.5% haste from gear, that it is better to forgo CS and SrS the whole CA phase regardless of whether or not you're under dynamic haste effects?
Also,in post #351, you did your analyses of the optimal opening rotation with Rapid Fire/Readiness. Now that you have determined that it would be best not to use CS/SrS when under dynamic haste effects during the CA phase, what should the new opening rotation look like?
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04/07/11, 12:36 PM
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#358
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Von Kaiser
Troll Hunter
Jaedenar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Nerec
I stick with the X-ray now since cata release. But I get the feeling it isnt worth it. Looking at my Logs I never got a uptime near 20%. So in simple math, 20% would provide 160 AP overall with bear in mind 1 hit = 2AP it seems that 88 hit gives use way more utility. Think I enchant my next weapon whith R19..
What experience have you made? Why does so many Hunter use X-ray over R19?
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General consensus is that since one cannot reforge into AP, while being able to do that into hit, then it makes sense to go with AP scope and get hit via reforging less optimal stats. Also, depending on gear, one might have quite a lot of hit to start with already, which makes ray scope a somewhat more flexible choice.
Glancing over logs of mine, I end up with uptime anywhere from 15 to 22%, so it's quite unstable, but still worth it over hit scope, I'd say.
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Fide, sed qui, vide
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04/07/11, 12:58 PM
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#359
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Nerec
If i might have to change position or have the risk to interupt any Aim, I suggest it would beneficial to stick to the normal rotation and use this situations to get off a CS while moving.
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Of course, if you are moving, it is best to cast CS and do damage than do no casts and possibly waste focus. In the case of a large movement fight such as Heroic Atramedes where it is difficult to consistently perform cast shots, it is definitely still a good idea to use both SrS and CS. I will make this clear in the OP.
Originally Posted by Nerec
I stick with the X-ray now since cata release. But I get the feeling it isnt worth it. Looking at my Logs I never got a uptime near 20%. So in simple math, 20% would provide 160 AP overall with bear in mind 1 hit = 2AP it seems that 88 hit gives use way more utility. Think I enchant my next weapon whith R19..
What experience have you made? Why does so many Hunter use X-ray over R19?
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Good observation. As our damage increases, hit rating becomes more and more valuable and is greater than 2 AP. The rub is that we will always be fully hit capped and that the true value of hit rating is the secondary stat (crit, haste, or mastery) that we gain and 1 point in crit, haste, or mastery is on average less than 2 AP. There is also the problem that you may not be able to convert the full 88 hit of the scope into secondary stats and that some of it will be left as extra hit over the cap, while the full benefit of the X-ray scope always applies.
As an example, with my current full 359 gear, here is the current stat ratings from FD:
| Hit + 1 | 2.624 | | Attack Power + 2 | 2.354 | | Haste Rating + 1 | 2.229 | | Crit Rating + 1 | 1.566 | | Mastery Rating + 1 | 1.097 |
Definitely 1 hit is greater than 2 AP, but 2 AP is greater than haste (whose value changes drastically with just a few points often) and much greater than crit and mastery +1. Since I can't figure out a way to utilize all of the hit on the scope, a few points of it result in over hit and are not converted to any benefit. The best I could with the hit scope is about 170 DPS loss.
With a 372 gear set, the state ratings are:
| Hit + 1 | 2.696 | | Attack Power + 2 | 2.517 | | Haste Rating + 1 | 2.328 | | Mastery Rating + 1 | 1.236 | | Crit Rating + 1 | 1.053 |
Once again, hit +1 is greater than AP+2, but AP+2 is still greater than the other stats.
Now in this case, I was actually able to convert all 88 hit into other stats and had the additional benefit of being able to eliminate a glinting for a delicate to gain 10 agi. Despite that, the hit scope was still an 80 DPS loss.
Of course, this data is for an ideal fight with being able to execute every shot on time. In a real game play situations, movement, interrupts, reaction times, your role, etc. will reduce the number of shots you take and the uptime of the X-ray scope. Looking at my most recent logs, X-ray uptime for me varied between 15 and 20%. The fights with the higher uptimes are those where I am attacking more consistently, like Halfus. The fights with the lower uptimes are ones where either I move a lot (such as V&T), the target moves a lot including sometimes out of range (I hate you Arion), or my role decreases my DPS uptime (such as controlling the pillars and worms on Magmaw). The thing is that all of these situations affect the benefit of your crit, haste, and mastery too. Crit and mastery have no affect if you are not attacking beyond the possible autoshots and corresponding WQs. Haste has greatly diminished benefit when not attacking; however, it still provides focus regen, with often this resulting in overcapping focus and focus loss.
Hence, for now, I would recommend still sticking with the X-ray scope.
Originally Posted by dvorjak
So are you saying that if you have 14.5% haste from gear, that it is better to forgo CS and SrS the whole CA phase regardless of whether or not you're under dynamic haste effects?
Also,in post #351, you did your analyses of the optimal opening rotation with Rapid Fire/Readiness. Now that you have determined that it would be best not to use CS/SrS when under dynamic haste effects during the CA phase, what should the new opening rotation look like?
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That is indeed what I am saying for the ideal fight situation. However, as I stated above, in fights where performing cast shots is difficult, then using SrS and CS is probably beneficial.
Concerning the optimal opening rotation, it is not much different than listed but with eliminating the SrS cast at the start and with replacing CSs with AIs, which pushes back following shots. It is pretty simple, perform AI if have sufficient focus to cast it (including back to back AIs sometimes to prevent focus capping) with casting SSs to regen enough focus to cast AI. Sometimes it will take only a single SS to regain enough focus to cast the next AI. This is fine since casting teh AI here is more DPS, prevents focus capping, and will not lose ISS in this ideal cast case with 100 ms latency and 10.52% haste.
Here is the shot table:
| Shot | End Time | Focus | Notes | | RF | 0.000 | 100.000 | Use RF only so do not waste a GCD on Readiness during the RF | | AI | 1.654 | 67.162 | Prefer AI first to use focus instead of wasting focus with SS pair for ISS | | SS | 2.754 | 87.575 | Could cast a second AI here to prevent focus capping but that wastes about 0.22s | | SS | 3.854 | 100.000 | ISS Started, focus capped | | AI | 5.293 | 64.924 | | | AI | 6.731 | 29.848 | Prefer second AI to prevent focus capping | | SS | 7.831 | 50.260 | | | SS | 8.931 | 70.672 | | | AI | 10.370 | 35.596 | | | SS | 11.470 | 56.008 | | | SS | 12.570 | 76.421 | | | AI | 14.008 | 41.344 | | | SS | 15.108 | 61.757 | RF runs out late in this cast; Only need single SS to have enough focus for AI, ISS is not lost | | Read/RF | 16.208 | 66.310 | Use Readiness after RF expires to maximize RF haste on casts; normal regen | | AI | 17.647 | 31.234 | | | SS | 18.747 | 51.646 | | | SS | 19.847 | 72.059 | | | AI | 21.285 | 36.982 | | | SS | 22.385 | 57.395 | | | SS | 23.485 | 77.807 | | | AI | 24.924 | 42.731 | | | SS | 26.024 | 63.143 | Only need single SS to have enough focus for AI, ISS is not lost | | AI | 27.462 | 28.067 | | | SS | 28.562 | 48.479 | | | SS | 29.662 | 68.891 | | | AI | 31.100 | 33.815 | | | SS | 32.200 | 47.824 | RF runs out early in this cast |
AI: 10
SS: 15
Any MMM AI procs can be just added into the rotation with pushing all other shots back a GCD. The only exception is that an MMM proc that occurs after a single SS cast and before the next SS pair completes must either wait to be used until after the SS pair to refresh ISS or it can replace the hardcast AI in order to maintain ISS uptime. However, if you do still add in the MMM AI cast in these situations, ISS will just run out during the cast of the second SS in the pair to refresh it for minimal ISS uptime loss.
Note that there are basically three choices at the start:
1) SS pair to get ISS buff
2) AI pair to utilize focus
3) single AI then SS pair
I chose option 3) since I believe its the best overall choice. Relative to option 3), option 1) saves about 0.22s on the first AI cast but also over caps focus by over 44 before your first AI is finished casting. That is almost the focus for a full AI. Of course, starting with AI still loses the 17 focus that accrues over its cast, so the real trade off is 0.22s versus 27 focus. I chose the extra focus.
Comparing option 2) to option 3), option 2) takes 0.22s longer but prevents the focus capping in option 2). The amount of focus capped in option 2) is less than 21 focus. This includes both the about 8 over focus that the second SS provides and the focus that accrues during the 2nd AI cast.
Last edited by Whitefyst : 04/07/11 at 5:46 PM.
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04/08/11, 10:33 PM
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#360
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Glass Joe
Troll Hunter
Laughing Skull
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I'm transferring to a new guild, and their main hunter mainly reforges mastery instead of haste. He has less then 5% on gear, and I was trying to figure out why. My friend said he was putting out some good parses, and I went to check out if other hunters were doing the same. I came across quit a few hunters on Heroic 25 Chimeron, and there are quite a few with top parses, using the mastery over haste gearing.
Has anyone been able to test this? I saw a page or 2 back that someone else noticed this, and it was kind of dismissed, and I'm just wondering if anyone has tried raiding with that gear set and had any success?
Edit: I'm sure a few people have tested this, just trying to make sure I make a very good impression on the guild, and I always try to stay updated with the latest theories.
Last edited by Darkruler : 04/08/11 at 11:11 PM.
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