I've literally been full marks for over 2 years now, and rightfully so. I've PTR tested BM spec and survival post 2.0 without ever considering it for full time hardcore raiding. I was 21/30 back in the day as well.

Having said that, recently I have been wondering quite a bit about the 2.1 patch and the changes it will mean for pets in particular. Avoidance, increased attack speed, the new Hunter's Mark, the changes to Glancing Blows, etc. All this is making me wonder whether or not the BM tree will truly be a viable and top DPS build in 2.1. I'm also bringing this up due to the fact that 25 man raiding hunters are usually, (if at all possible), grouped with a Shadow Priest. If you aren't, get used to running OOM or blowing Fel Mana pots every 2 minutes, (which isn't fun).

Being stuck in a caster group most raids isn't exactly beneficial to anyone but myself. They don't exactly need TSA and I don't exactly want to be grouped with warriors and rogues to give them TSA because then it doesn't benefit my mana problems whatsoever. Going BM with Ferocious Inspiration is actually a reason to keep me in with an SP/Warlock/Mage/Ele Shaman group and maybe even have them request ME to be grouped with them for that 3% to all damage boost.

I've come to the basic conclusion that my damage, (fully buffed, potted, flasked), is never going to exceed or match the long-term dps fights of a warlock, mage, or shadow priest, (I'm talking casters with 1100+ spell damage that are absolute rockstars at their class). I'm not even going to mention how rogues and fury warriors will top the meters again come 2.1...

So what does this leave me with? It basically leaves me with the choice of coming to terms with personal DPS versus group utility. The Survival Tree change will have a nice change to Expose Weakness but guess what? We don't roll with a ton of melee in TBC raids. Its world of rangedcraft from here on out pretty much. So have any of you other long-term raiding hunters had the same thoughts on this as I am? Just curious.

I switched to 41/20/0 from 7/4x/x about a month ago, and have enjoyed higher dps ever since. I can pretty much assure you that 2.1's buffs to BM spec and pet damage/survivability will make the BM tree even more enjoyable.

With the obvious footnote that if the encounter isn't pet friendly (for me, Gruul comes to mind, although that might get easier after the mend pet change), you'll wind up doing less damage than your Marks spec, but not all that much.

So let me ask an honest (stupid) question: Why are any of your hunters anything BUT BM?

It seems that FI >> TSA, and I certainly can't think of any situation where Silencing SHot is helpful in raids, so why in the world are ANY hunters not BM? I feel like I'm missing something.

no joke? If you don't mind could you post his name, etc? I'd like to see his setup / talent configuration. Also, is he outclassing people in 25 man raids? I could see this happening pre 2.1 if you're talking 5 mans or Kara.

Granted, Marks is good for arenas, but I think this thread pertains to raiding - if nothing else I base that purely on the title.

I would be interested to find out more about this. Even thinking of going BM spec makes me feel dirty, as I've been true Marksman since launch. But anything for better dps to justify the raid slot.

Indeed, I'm specifically looking for discussion / feedback on raids. Discount PVP, 5 mans, or Kara, (which I don't consider a real raid because of small group configuration and weaker mobs).

pet survivability is the main reason I guess. I'm BM at the moment, and I wanted to spec it earlier, but had no choice but to stay MM since we were working at Gruul at the time. I can only imagine how BM spec was pre lb nerf.

Jayde, someone like Polina is a perfect example of a BM hunter that knows wtf they're doing. You can simply tell by looking at his/her armory profile. Thanks.

Question regarding Polina (I don't think he/she is reading this thread, but maybe someone else can help): when you've got your bow speed down to 2.1 with SS and quiver, is it better to keep the crit scope or swap for +12 damage?

I believe the main reason many hunters have an aversion to BM is it requires a great deal of micromanagment and multitasking. In a fight like Gruul, you have to focus on your shot timings while watching your own health, your mana, your position to avoid cave ins, and your pets health and position, not to mention making sure you hit your trinkets/rapid fires every time they're off cooldown, and watch your threatmeter (at least earlier in the fight). If your pet dies early as an MM hunter, it's a bummer as you'll lose something like 20% of your DPS potential, but if your pet dies early as a BM hunter you'll lose more like 30-35% of you DPS potential. So as a BM you really want to make sure your pet doesn't die early. It's one more thing to worry about I guess.