Kamaa

Wouldn't the passive haste + DST have to take you below 1.0 Auto Shot speed in order to lose full advantage of DST?

1.0 + .5 Auto Shot animation = 1.5 = GCD complete and a new Steady Shot can be fired.

Or am I wrong in assuming the Auto Shot can fire before the GCD is complete?

 

Glaurong

Something I noticed last night in ZA that I hadn't before and I don't remember it being mentioned here.

I appears that pet attack speed caps at 0.99 seconds. No matter what buffs my pet gets, it simply will not go below this. Is this new? Have I just not noticed it before?

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Cheeky

Should be simple to test with a Shaman or a leatherworker. Test statically, then in combat with Frenzy proc'd. It could also be a function of the character sheet display. I'd use a combat log to check actual attack frequency.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Thrankul

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm not sure where else this question would go, so.. here goes, and if it's the wrong spot, let me know.

I'm using Cheeky's spreadsheet to look at possible gear upgrades, and I'm confused. My current gear and spec (41/20 BM) can be found here: The World of Warcraft Armory

Running that into the spreadsheet, and upgrading to the longbow off of Vashj i see a DROP in dps. The first thing I thought of was that maybe it was due to weapon speed, but even going to the Arcanite Steam Pistol off of Al'ar gives a drop. So my question here is - what am I missing, or are there really no hunter weapons in SSC or TK that are actually better for a BM hunter than KZ drops, and if so, what WOULD be better?

 

Mugsley

You just answered your own question. The difference is getting a hold of ZA gear. The haste in that gear can allow you to use slower weapons to better effect.

-------------------

My turn: When is it a good idea to start adding in Arcane and Multi shots for a BM? Pop them when we have to throw a KC? I'm trying to look for other ways to bump up my DPS besides just Auto-Steady.

I'm working on higher DPS time, but in fights like Aran, Gruul (for the most part), Mag, and even Dragonhawk in ZA; there's so much movement that it's tough.

 

Enova

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about that... on itself the bow off vashj and the gun off al'ar are a bit too slow for BM. Heck, even steelhawk is not ideal. Basically, without haste gear, [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] is the best BM weapon in the game so far. However, all that changes when haste comes into play. That means Wolfslayer becomes a bit too fast and the slower weapons get close to what an unhasted Wolfslayer used to be. I'm not sure how much haste rating you need to stack, but as a brief estimate, I'd say at the very least 2 pieces, even if they're the badge leather items.

Guilty as charged ^

 

Sienna

When your auto cooldown is below 1.5 you cannot shoot steady and an auto every 1.5 seconds anymore. So you are not getting x% damage if you get x% more haste.

 

Thorongil

Basically Auto-Steady gives you the best single-target-dps. You can weave in Multi if you´re sure more targets will be hit (normally the case when fighting trashmobs) and Arcane when you´re moving and thus can´t cast steady. But in normal bossfights it will mostly come down to auto-steady.

I also didn´t accept this for a long time, always going out with Arcane and Multi on bosses. Though, you don´t gain benefit of it, you just destroy your rotation. You get the same or even a better dps if you "just" run a clean rotation with auto-steady. Also, you can use AotH throughout nearly every bossfight and if you have a Shaman + BoW you don´t even have to chain-chug mana-pots.

For the reason, why a auto-steady-rotation in many cases out-dpses a full-special-rotation for BM check Hunter shot rotation illustrated.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Idril.png

 

Kamaa

This is not entirely accurate. Maintaining an auto/steady rotation is not the best DPS a BM hunter can do. You are on the right track though. BM hunters need to maintain a 1:1 shot ratio which means for every one special shot you should fire an auto shot in between. Auto, Steady, Auto, Steady.... etc etc will get you a long way but if you want to DPS to your maximum potential you need to substitute arcane shots and multi shots for steady shots on occasion. For example you might, Auto, Multi, Auto, Arcane, Auto, Steady and continue to use multi/arcane as the priority over steady shot. Arcane and multi do more damage than steady shot until late T6 gear where steady shot has the potential to do more damage. Armor penetration would also play a key role in boosting the value of steady shot over arcane shot.

Obviously mana becomes a concern with the more expensive shots but each hunter will have to handle that in their own way. Spriests are by far the easiest way, but you might need to use a resto shaman, mana oil, and chain chugging mana pots as well. If you are OOM then steady/auto only is great, but otherwise it can't compete with the "1:1 Multi/Arcane Priority" rotation.

 

Grogzor

Unless there is a display error, you can get below .99 AS. A couple nights ago my pet had frenzy and bloodlust up at the same time, in addition to my Serpent's Swiftness and Cobra Reflexes my pet had the indicated .73 AS that one would expect.

But when it comes time for me to remove your wings, and you, you must try to fly...

Click Here to see what makes me tic(k).

What Are You Going to Roll for Warhammer Online?

 

Mugsley

Right. I just have my head so far into Auto-Steady, that I keep forgetting to throw in Multi and Arcane on the rare occasion I get a SPriest and/or JoW. I just wasn't sure how to prioritize Arcane and Multi in those cases (Multi still crits more often -- based on the number of times I use it -- versus my other shots; even though I'm BM) where I can use them with Steady.

 

Cheeky

That is an illusion. They have the same chance to critically hit for you.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Kamaa

If maximum damage is your only concern then max rank multi will be your priority until the 15 and 20% bonuses of arcane/steady boost that damage above the static damage of multi shot. Arcane is second and steady shot is last. Just remember the 1:1 ratio and be conscious of some bosses with high resist (ie Solarion) where you should drop arcane from the rotation.

If you are having mana problems just drop the multi all together and use only arcane shot. W/O a Spriest you'll prolly still need mana oils and pots.

 

Ghoselle

With the addition of +20 agi to 1H enchants combined with the ability to put [Superior Mana Oil] on both weapons, is it generally worthwhile to use a pair of 1H weapons instead of the canonical 2H weapons while raiding?

At the Karazhan gear level, [Legacy] seems hard to beat with a pair of weapons of similiar ilvl without putting mana oil on it. A combo of [Spiteblade] and [Emerald Ripper] appropriately enchanted and oiled seem to be an upgrade from Legacy, assuming you needed the additional mana regen.

Is there any reason not to do a gear build like this for raiding? Does this sort of trade off continue in to SSC/TK and MH/BT?

Ghoselle.
Feral Druid.

 

Enova

There really is no practical reason why dual wielding shouldn't work. It's still a matter of lower odds for 2 separate drops, and of having to spend dkp twice or to sort priorities on weapons twice. Also, the one handed weapons have stats that clearly make them a target for rogues. Most 2 handed hunter weapons, however, have agility, maybe even mp5 that holds back warriors from them.
Back when I ran Kara, one group ran with a dagger rogue and a hunter, and one (mine) with one or two sword rogues, and in Februray or so, [Spiteblade] was about the best a rogue could reasonably hope for. That means the hunter in the other group was able to get himself an awesome pair of Spiteblades, for minimum dkp,while I've seen 3 of them drop without getting any, and only one Legacy that i passed on, back when it had +Intellect instead of +Agility. I ended up spending a small fortune on an [Axe of the Gronn Lords] that dropped first. But even then, a Spiteblade combo used to beat Legacy on stats, either with 15 agility or intellect enchants.
Also, remeber that for a 2 hand weapon, you're pretty much set when you got one. For dual wielding, you have 2 separate drops to wait for to actually be viable.

Nowdays, the popular dual wielding combos would be [Netherbane]x2, [Blade of Infamy]x2 and [Dagger of Bad Mojo]x2. Personally, I still think a good dual wield combo is superior, even only if for an extra 16mp5 from a second mana oil. That doesn't stop me from having a [Trollbane] at the moment.

EDIT: at Kara level, if you can reaonably get your hands on them, get 2 Spiteblades rather than an Emerald Ripper. Not only for the stats, but you'll like the looks, as well.

Guilty as charged ^

 

Glaurong

This all depends on your gear and the armor of your target. These kinds of generalizations are somewhat misleading. Everyone should take the time to plug in their gear, typical raid buffs and mob debuffs into the sheet and see about how hard each of their shots will hit.

My Steady Shot, out scaled my arcane shot a long time ago, even on a boss with 7700 armor. My average steady is 1285, my average arcane is 1163, even my multi-shot only hits for about 1408. The extra 12 dps isn't worth the mana expenditure for me, and once I get my Ashtongue Talisman there will be no reason to use anything but steady/auto.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Kamaa

If you look at one of my posts above you'll notice I that I've already said SS beats the others once you reach T6 gear. You have 4/5 T6 and it happens that your steady shot beats your arcane by about 10% so the math is near perfect. If you don't mind though, can you show a WWS of a fight, or preferably an entire raid where you used a 1:1 arcane priority? I'd like to see WWS of the arcane doing 10% less on average.

 

Aylek

Agreed. Asthongue is a great trinket for BM. I use it itogether with a DST and am very happy with this combination (armory currently shows PVP specc and gear). All the haste proccs mean that I can get some additional Steadys out for more Ashtounge proccs.

I will probably swap it for a Berserker's Call as soon as I can get my hands on one though, since Berserker seems superior AP-wise (Ashtounge is close to Bloodlust as a non-BM if I remember right). Calculating Ashtounge is difficult when considering both fully specced AOTH and a DST equipped.

EDIT: typo

 

Ishmaael

I found the ashtongue trinket to be highly dissatisfying, coming out below bloodlust brooch with my gear and general rotation (and also below my current setup in a straight steady-auto rotation)Maybe if my t6 pieces ever drop it will edge ahead, but its still an incredibly limited trinket imo.

 

Blaarg

HI, ive been reading alot of what u guys have to offer recently and ive been switching between marksmanship and Bm for quite some time... my guild is progressing into hyjal and BT very soon and im curious on what tips u guys have for me... basicly whats spec is better overall... bm or marks. I have heard that many of the bosses in BT and hyjal are not pet friendly. I have also heard its still better dps to be BM untill u start replacing ur T5 with T6... If there is allready a post about this im sry for double posting but i was unable to find one.

 

Tyrae

The only fight in Hyjal thats a bit rough as BM is Archimonde. In BT Illidan can be a bit tricky, and Gorefiends acid spit needs to be healed quick. Rest of the bosses are no sweat as BM

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....33302ZOmlN.png

Aim Shots in arenas are like fat chicks on Unicycles; they are slow as hell and every one sees them coming.

 

Bullwyf

I was talking with some of my friends in another guild that has recently started up on Lothar and one of the hunters asked about the usefulness of having a Windserpent as your pet on ranged encounters like Prince. When I am not pvping, I am always specced 41/20, so my mentality is that of a BM hunter first and foremost. The doubts I had about a windserpent actually came when thinking about FI. Would Lightning Breath proc FI?

The doubts I have come from knowing that Blizzard makes distinctions between "Spell Critical" and "Critical Strike" and I read the text for FI where it says when the pet gets a "critical hit." I am just wondering if anyone can confirm one way or the other because I would really like to know.

Thank you for your time.

 

• Tsook

Yes, it does. However, your pet's spell crit rate may be lower than its melee crit rate if you are in a party with physical damage synergy (LotP, GoA totem). On the other hand, in a caster group it could be higher (Moonkin aura, Totem of Wrath).

 

Enova

I'll quote Cheeky on this; Lightning Breath has a crit chance of 10% as a BM with the proper talent. Totem of wrath + Moonkin aura add another 8%.
A cat or ravager likely has much more than that, buffed with Leader of the Pack alone.
Also, the focus cost for Lightning Breath makes it unlikely to cast very often unless GFTT procs often (but that would mean getting in the physical dps group, which nullifies the pet's crit chance). Overall, Claw or Gore cost half, have a higher critical chance and get buffed by the physical dps buffs, as well as scaling with the same buffs on the hunter.

Guilty as charged ^

 

Tongaro

Ok done some searches and wasn't able to find an answer to this but my guild is working on Azgalor in MH and have decided to use the range max distance to out range the fire. I have read it has a 35 yd range and was wondering if I will be targetable by it since that is my range too.

If so how do other BM hunters that are doing this fight and use this strat handle it?