To hit is actually overrated, percentage wise, crit is worth more.
I'm sorry, but I'd like to see some numbers on that; according to the spreadsheets, capping the hit chance is the cheapest, fastest and most substantial dps increase; pretty much every setup where I'm not hit capped yields lower dps, even at slightly higher stats.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
I'm sorry, but I'd like to see some numbers on that; according to the spreadsheets, capping the hit chance is the cheapest, fastest and most substantial dps increase; pretty much every setup where I'm not hit capped yields lower dps, even at slightly higher stats.
Depends where you're getting the crit from, stacking critrating is marginally less beneficial per itembudget than stacking hitrating, but stacking agility over hittrating will give you far more damage per itembudget.
Item budget seems very messy on Armour Penetration, but i think thats far better to stack over hitrating too.
I don't see how it matters where you're getting the hit from; you should be comparing whole items against each other. But yes, hit is one of the least valuable dps stats, second only to AP for a Hyjal/BT 41/20/0 hunter. With my "Wishlist" set in Cheeky's sheet, here are the values of stats (normalized to the budget cost).
Of course, these numbers all depend on many different factors so you shouldn't use these numbers. Use Cheeky's sheet to produce them for your own build/gear level. Months ago, AP was the best stat for me; now it's the worst. There just is no one answer.
Wow, that guide is pretty bad. Serpent Sting is still heavily mana and damage inefficient, and contrary to what they say, you cannot use Multi-Shot while moving.
You're ten times better off learning how to play a PvE BM Hunter on these forums than that guide.
Wow, that guide is pretty bad. Serpent Sting is still heavily mana and damage inefficient, and contrary to what they say, you cannot use Multi-Shot while moving.
You're ten times better off learning how to play a PvE BM Hunter on these forums than that guide.
Hi, Im a 9/49/3 MM hunter that mainly raids but also do arena and sometimes pvp in battle grounds. I've tryed BM in raids and i just cant get over the lack of AP i had as MM. I mean in a gruul's lair when we first downed gruul i was able to get arround 3400ish AP with Hourglass of the Unraveller Proc and using Blood lust Brooch. I also missed the 41 yard range with the 3 points into eagle eye. I was wondering is BM spec better for PvE raid wise. I use the standard Autoshot/steady shot Rotation, I feel i don't do as much damage as i do when I'm MM. Can anyone tell me other wise?
Hi, Im a 9/49/3 MM hunter that mainly raids but also do arena and sometimes pvp in battle grounds. I've tryed BM in raids and i just cant get over the lack of AP i had as MM. I mean in a gruul's lair when we first downed gruul i was able to get arround 3400ish AP with Hourglass of the Unraveller Proc and using Blood lust Brooch. I also missed the 41 yard range with the 3 points into eagle eye. I was wondering is BM spec better for PvE raid wise. I use the standard Autoshot/steady shot Rotation, I feel i don't do as much damage as i do when I'm MM. Can anyone tell me other wise?
41/20/0 is without doubt the best raid dps build, unless for some reason you really can't use your pet for most of the fight. All in all, though, pet survivability at Kara/Gruul level should be 100%, though.
Now, 3400 AP during procs seems somewhat overstated for that gear level, even with full raid buffs and a flask, but I may have overlooked something. Still, you're looking at a steady (as in no procs or trinkets) 2600 AP during 25 man raid conditions as MM, which is quite a reasonable figure. However, going over to Beast mastery, you chop off a bit of that AP in exchange for lots of other benefits: 20% faster attack speed, faster pet attack speed, more pet criticals, a lot more pet damage, Ferocious Inspiration, a lot more mana efficiency from not using Arcane/Multi anymore, and a kill Command that won't screw up your shot rotations anymore. Basically, the trade off favors BM a lot more, despite whatever feeling you may have. The only way to convince yourself of this is by running some accurate damage meters (I'd recommend Recount, which records your damage as hunter + pet damage, but also adds a separate entry for the pet) or by comparing a few WWS logs with both specs, on the same encounter.
The 6 yard extra range isn't likely something game breaking, and to be honest, I've hardly missed it in my BM days, and if I wasn't so fond of Survival, I doubt I'd pick it up ever.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Well maybe not 3400 ranged AP, but maybe around 3200 or 3300 i remember seeing it break the 3000 mark. I had every buff you could get and for flask it was of the bandit for gruul's cause it was free. I've respect to BM to see how it works out. Again i feel naked with out the 1900+ unbuffed ranged AP but i guess the speed at which i can use the steadyshot rotation makes up for it.
Edit: heres the SW stats log for that Gruul's lair run Wow Web Stats
Number-crunching aside, I'd say that once you get higher than T5 gear the MM spec starts to shine quite a bit in Hyjal/BT. I personally loved BM spec all through TBC up until late-Tempest Keep when it began to be a pain in my rear end just because of the pacing of the fights from trash to bosses.
So I just got the beastmaster shoulders from Hyjal and wonder if it is worth giving up my T5 4 piece bonus for the increased pet damage should I go BM (currently SV so haven't even put them on yet)
So I just got the beastmaster shoulders from Hyjal and wonder if it is worth giving up my T5 4 piece bonus for the increased pet damage should I go BM (currently SV so haven't even put them on yet)
Probably not. They have a spreadsheet for this kind of question. It can be found at www.elitistjerks.com
Because people will just scroll past this and ask the same question over and over again. There is a thread dedicated to Hunter questions. You can ask anything you want. I believe this thread is (was) intended to be for theorycraft as it relates to BM Hunters, not to help people choose gear.
Like I say everytime I try to use the spreadsheet I fux it up. Can't even save a profile and I'm using Excel not Openoffice.
That and why not have the answer listed here for those who shall follow in my oft misguided footsteps?
Because blanket answers to questions such as this are dangerous and can just as easily do more harm than good. The answer to that question will be different for each individual based on their individual spec and gear setups. In order to answer your question I would have to take all of your gear and your spec from the armory, plug it into the spreadsheet, and then swap the shoulders out. However, they are BM shoulders so I can only assume that you would change not only your spec as you mentioned, but other pieces of your gear as well.
Whether you like the answer or not, the answer is listed here over and over for you and those like you. The answer is, don't be lazy. Use the spreadsheet and don't come here expecting others to do it for you. If you are "fuxing" it up, that is something we can help with. There is a whole thread dedicated to the spreadsheet. Ask questions about how to use the spreadsheet if you are confused. Don't be lazy.
This is very specific. Is 5% crit better than whatever the bonuses the shoulders give you in Beast Master spec worth the sacrifice or not? The stats are on each of the items and I can link them if you really need. This is NOT blanket. This is very specific. I told the spec, weapon speed should not matter here. And no there is no other gear. The only change is the one I gave. No blanket change. That is YOUR assumption, not the given factors.
And why hate on being lazy? Work is for some, reaping rewards efficiently is for others.
Number-crunching aside, I'd say that once you get higher than T5 gear the MM spec starts to shine quite a bit in Hyjal/BT. I personally loved BM spec all through TBC up until late-Tempest Keep when it began to be a pain in my rear end just because of the pacing of the fights from trash to bosses.
How do you handle your mana? Aside from the typical consumables, what other sources of mana regen are you receiving?
This is very specific. Is 5% crit better than whatever the bonuses the shoulders give you in Beast Master spec worth the sacrifice or not? The stats are on each of the items and I can link them if you really need. This is NOT blanket. This is very specific. I told the spec, weapon speed should not matter here. And no there is no other gear. The only change is the one I gave. No blanket change. That is YOUR assumption, not the given factors.
And why hate on being lazy? Work is for some, reaping rewards efficiently is for others.
I'm going to answer based on how I personally use the spreadsheet. I think that other hunters here probably use it the same way. Instead of looking at individual stats and asking questions about that specific stat - in this case, 5% crit - I look at overall DPS (as a BM hunter, I look at the hunter + pet total). When I need to choose between two pieces of gear, I look to see which item will give me the biggest overall DPS boost, period. That is the beauty of the spreadsheet, and why people are telling you to plug in your numbers (yes, I know you said the sheet doesn't work for you). The results ARE extremely specialised. Stats are not just stats, and a +5% crit to you may produce a very different DPS outcome than a +5% crit to someone else... even someone else with very similar gear.
As far as "hating" on laziness... Cheeky et al. worked VERY hard on putting together this astounding spreadsheet for us to use. The very fact that we have such a tool at our disposal is *definitely* "reaping rewards efficiently" - wilfully choosing not to use it (or not bothering to figure out how to use it... it is very user friendly and most bugs can be worked out; it's not like people aren't willing to help you) is asinine and shows a disrespect for those who have taken the time to make it available.
So I just got the beastmaster shoulders from Hyjal and wonder if it is worth giving up my T5 4 piece bonus for the increased pet damage should I go BM (currently SV so haven't even put them on yet)
Let's just say 5% extra crit won't make up for a dead pet. I got that same pair of shoulders on our only Kaz'rogal kill to date (around December 10th, or so). Also, I'm survival. And my tier 5 2 piece bonus also depends on my shoulders. But after various field experiments during a little raiding break for the holidays, I'd say the beast tamer shoulders are a paradox. They don't benefit any spec except BM, since the bonus to pet damage is too low compared to the stats you lose. BUT, as a BM, you need the tier 2 2/5 bonus even more. So, no, it's not worth respeccing BM over a single item. But I can see why these would appeal to your typical BM with more than 2 pieces of tier 5 to sacrifice.
Personally, as survival wearing these, I typically lost around 80 dps on the blasted lands mobs. (went from constantly over 1100 to 1020-1030)
As a BM (in a PUG kara, helping some friends farm badges, if that's in any way relevant), my pet died twice during Aran's Blizzards simply because Mend pet alone couldn't keep it up. (No FrR, though, and the shaman alts weren't healing). Then, on Nightbane, same story; pet gets feared through flames with BW unavailable, I toss a Mend Pet, and nuke away, while my pet dies just as it clears the flame patch. One time experiences as these may be, they kind of illustrate Murphy's law...
All in all, and on an unrelated note, I think the only think that could make a hunter break his 2/5 t5 is 4/5 t6.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Actually it's the 4 piece bonus. So I'd be losing the 5% crit not the heal proc. However, with me getting tuskbreaker I've decided to give the sheet a 2nd try. Well, 5th but only number crunchers count.
And see Belaq, your presentation motivated me, whereas before I just heard "L2P spreadsheets"
...So i wasted 30 dkp. And Tuskbreaker > Barrel Blade Longrifle.
So, here's a question the spreadsheet can't answer. How much dps should I shave off of this ideal amount when adding in real game time mechanics like moving, starting up hunter mark, potting, ooming, etc.
From reading around here I see that apparently the 2nd point in Trap Mastery is useless. I currently have 2 points in the Trap Mastery Talent but now I may be removing that extra point and putting it elsewhere.
I am thinking of socketing my BL shoulders a with a +8 spell hit gem and am just wanting to confirm as whether this will make any difference for trap heartbeat resists.
Let's just say 5% extra crit won't make up for a dead pet. I got that same pair of shoulders on our only Kaz'rogal kill to date (around December 10th, or so). Also, I'm survival. And my tier 5 2 piece bonus also depends on my shoulders. But after various field experiments during a little raiding break for the holidays, I'd say the beast tamer shoulders are a paradox. They don't benefit any spec except BM, since the bonus to pet damage is too low compared to the stats you lose. BUT, as a BM, you need the tier 2 2/5 bonus even more. So, no, it's not worth respeccing BM over a single item. But I can see why these would appeal to your typical BM with more than 2 pieces of tier 5 to sacrifice.
Personally, as survival wearing these, I typically lost around 80 dps on the blasted lands mobs. (went from constantly over 1100 to 1020-1030)
As a BM (in a PUG kara, helping some friends farm badges, if that's in any way relevant), my pet died twice during Aran's Blizzards simply because Mend pet alone couldn't keep it up. (No FrR, though, and the shaman alts weren't healing). Then, on Nightbane, same story; pet gets feared through flames with BW unavailable, I toss a Mend Pet, and nuke away, while my pet dies just as it clears the flame patch. One time experiences as these may be, they kind of illustrate Murphy's law...
All in all, and on an unrelated note, I think the only think that could make a hunter break his 2/5 t5 is 4/5 t6.
If your pet is dying to things like Scorched Earth and Aran's Blizzard, I have to believe you haven't trained him in r2 avoidance. If Gruul hadn't grown too many times, I could mend pet through cave-ins with it properly trained.
I've not seen Hyjal and BT, where I think the 2pcT5 would really shine.
...So i wasted 30 dkp. And Tuskbreaker > Barrel Blade Longrifle.
What other haste gear are you rocking? I only have the Arrow-Fall Chestguard, and plugging that into the sheet sets Tuskbreaker behind the Wolfslayer in my current gear. If, however, I picked up crafted BT shoulders/Bracers, that haste would push it over the top.
12/22/07, 8:25 PM
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