new run, new macro, and you see the margin has increase dramatically, and on this run i was no longer potting or food buffing, even on boss mst boss fights
several fights i did go oom, and on Fathom lords i was viper stung twice by the hunter and was fighting oom by the time we down the first lord, the shaman.
It has been a marked difference so far, and right now my DPS is actually being held back because of threat issues i developed from using this macro
I was going OOM alot faster though, and had to drink every trash pull.
I was switching between macros, to conserve mana on certain fights, but then i figured something out:
You can use the new macro to get the effect of both macros.
For more DPS, you spam the macro as per usual, giving you the approx. 3:2 ratio
For more mana efficency, you use the macro button as if you are manually timing steady shot, and simply double or triple tap the key to ensure KC goes off, giving you a 1:1 ratio
this made it easy for me to go mana conservative when i needed to, especially in long fights waiting for a pot to cooldown.
i think this has alot to do with the new server side action queue, along with the latency eduction, coupled with the new cast commands.
I'm a little confused. As far as my poor understanding of the ! function in macros, wouldn't the 1st cycle of the macro turn auto shot on, and then the 2nd cycle turn it off, and so on back and forth? It should give you something like auto-steady-steady-auto-steady-steady.
A second "!auto shot" should follow the steady shot on line 3 in a cast sequence, or possibly as a separate cast on a new line 4. This would also toggle off the auto shot thus allowing the command in line 1 to toggle it on again.
Time for me to go test the 2 I guess...
(edit) Ok, my bad. Since this is being spammed, it should be constantly toggling auto on and off, and firing steady whenever possible.
I'm a little confused. As far as my poor understanding of the ! function in macros, wouldn't the 1st cycle of the macro turn auto shot on, and then the 2nd cycle turn it off, and so on back and forth? It should give you something like auto-steady-steady-auto-steady-steady.
A second "!auto shot" should follow the steady shot on line 3 in a cast sequence, or possibly as a separate cast on a new line 4. This would also toggle off the auto shot thus allowing the command in line 1 to toggle it on again.
Time for me to go test the 2 I guess...
(edit) Ok, my bad. Since this is being spammed, it should be constantly toggling auto on and off, and firing steady whenever possible.
the ! in front of autoshot keeps it from toggling i believe
also see if you can use the macro to duplicate a 1:1 ratio, to see if you can duplicate it.
I have used AotV and went through my manabar 5 times with each macro.
Charscreen critrate: 30.61%
I am using WSR und 15% ammo pouch.
No proc trinkets and no trinkets used.
Results were recorded with SWStats
Lightning breath was not casted during the test.
With the first macro I experienced the rotation to be AS-SS-AS-SS-SS-AS-SS-AS-SS-SS.
I dont know why after one SS the AS came and in the next step two SS were fired before AS came through.
(I hope I did not make any mistakes here, because english is not my native language)
I've noticed the same thing on my hunter, in testing and in practice. Its just annoying your macro will stop if you switch targets and your pet ever lacks focus to Lightning Breath right away.
Yes i also see an increase of about 100 dps with the 3:2 macro. I cant wait till i get 4 piece T6 bonus ./drool. I use the old macro for trash and 3:2 for boss fights, with a SP it is a joke but without one i'm chugging pots like mad. Also my latency is down to 60-71 were it was 200-400 for the last month or so in BT/MH.
Does a new macro have impact on the best weapon speed? Maybe now stronger bows are better than WSR? Sheet can't help in simulation I think - maybe someone do tests? (I don't have strong bow to make it)
Does a new macro have impact on the best weapon speed? Maybe now stronger bows are better than WSR? Sheet can't help in simulation I think - maybe someone do tests? (I don't have strong bow to make it)
i had some different speed bows all at 64 to 66 dps, but i cleared em out to make bank room. im going to go grab some similar bows with the same approx dps but different weapon speeds and test it out soon
I placed LB back on auto-cast and have not seen any issues regarding repositioning. Do we still need to put this ability in our macros?
As of last week, which was the last time I tested having LB on auto-cast, I noted numerous occasions where the serpent would back away from the target to try to cast.
Originally Posted by Castia
I've noticed the same thing on my hunter, in testing and in practice. Its just annoying your macro will stop if you switch targets and your pet ever lacks focus to Lightning Breath right away.
Is the macro you're using exactly the same as the one posted?
If so, I'd recommend changing that line to either exclude [target=target] (which really isn't needed since it will cast LB on it's current target anyway, unless your target and your pet's target are different and you want it to cast LB on your target) or change it to [target=pettarget,exists] and move it to the end of the macro. Having it as the last line in the macro I have never had any issues with specials being delayed/macro freezing due to LB not being able to be cast.
Originally Posted by DeeNogger
Every time I bite into an oatmeal raisin cookie mistaken for a chocolate-chip an angle loses its wings. Fucking trani's of the cookie world!
As of last week, which was the last time I tested having LB on auto-cast, I noted numerous occasions where the serpent would back away from the target to try to cast.
Is the macro you're using exactly the same as the one posted?
If so, I'd recommend changing that line to either exclude [target=target] (which really isn't needed since it will cast LB on it's current target anyway, unless your target and your pet's target are different and you want it to cast LB on your target) or change it to [target=pettarget,exists] and move it to the end of the macro. Having it as the last line in the macro I have never had any issues with specials being delayed/macro freezing due to LB not being able to be cast.
From everything I have gathered I have set my macros as such.
If so, I'd recommend changing that line to either exclude [target=target] (which really isn't needed since it will cast LB on it's current target anyway, unless your target and your pet's target are different and you want it to cast LB on your target) or change it to [target=pettarget,exists] and move it to the end of the macro. Having it as the last line in the macro I have never had any issues with specials being delayed/macro freezing due to LB not being able to be cast.
I have put it in the macro in this way for the occasions where I want to pull my pet of the mob for some healing (like Voidreaver). This way it is out of AOE range and will still deal LB (which is better than nothing).
So the 2:3 rotation is basically the 1:1.5 rotation but with only steady shots? How does MS/AS fit into this new rotation?
I was also wonder if this rotation is manageable with manual weaving instead of using the macro, though it seems very timing dependent.
This tells the cast sequence to reset on either of two conditions.
If you switch targets OR if 2 seconds elapse. This helps get your rotation correct on a new target right off the bat.
I think the reset=target is a pretty bad idea.
Often people change targets while fighting. eg: Hydros, Akama, Illidan... and of course most of the raid, trash.
I'll use Illidan flame elementals as an example. While I'm dpsing one, I often change to the other to share my threat around a little bit, especially if FD's resist. If I was using my macro on the first Elemental, and targeted the other one, I would like my shot rotation to continue perfectly as if I never changed targets. If I changed targets as the Autoshot went off, Autoshot would hit Elemental A, and the followup Steady would hit Elemental B, along with the next Auto which fires right after the Steady, and the cycle continues.
Shot cycle was: Auto(A) -> Steady(A) -> Auto(A) -> Steady(B) -> Auto(B) -> etc.
Wouldnt the "target=reset" mean that when I change target while casting that Autoshot, the macro would reset back to the first skill (Autoshot) and therefore would do this: Autoshot was cast on Elemental A as target was changing. Macro reset back to Auto. The macro lets Autoshot fire on Elemental B, then Steady.
Shot cycle was: Auto(A) -> Steady(A) -> Auto(A) -> Auto(B) -> etc.
Missed out on a steady shot.
Thats why I always took the reset=target out of my macros. Maybe I don't understand exactly how that syntax behaves though.
So the 2:3 rotation is basically the 1:1.5 rotation but with only steady shots? How does MS/AS fit into this new rotation?
I was also wonder if this rotation is manageable with manual weaving instead of using the macro, though it seems very timing dependent.
this is a 3:2 ratio of steady shot to auto shot, while the 1:1.5 refers to the ration of auto shot to all other specials, so it is not really the same rotation.
this is just a steady / auto rotation, as it basically spams steadyshot. There is no gap of inaction while waiting for autoshot to go off in which to weave in AS / MS. Since this macro can be used to "time" into a 1:1 rotation though, i believe it can be used to bring in arcane or multi whenever the cooldown is up pretty much, i will test that as well.
im testing right now to see if this is weapon speed independent, as the way the macro functions now, it doesnt take any timing manually. The main benefit of the macro is to hit kill command it seems, and remove error messages in text.
I tested two weapons of similar DPS, but varying Speed, while using the new macro as stated in my previous post.
I used the same quiver speed (15 percent) and the same ammo (32 DPS) for both weapons. I had aspect of the viper on and as i reached oom, i FDed to end combat and make sure that i was never counting time while oom in the DPS observation. I had no proc trinkets to reduce the amount of chance at play in this test.
I ended up using exactly 1000 rounds or ammo on both test sequences. The Damage meter used was Recount.
* Due to slight difference in weapon stats, we can assume an approximate 10 Overall DPS difference between the two weapons, in favor of the Bow (5.2 dps, modified for 3:2 ratio)
I also plugged these two weapons into Cheeky's spreadsheet, with current gear and current BM spec.
It returned a 38.87 dps difference in favor of the bow. this is primarily because of the speed, as is the currnet conventional knowledge.
How much of this difference do i account to weapon speed, and how much to the difference between the two weapons?
If i adjust for the difference in weapon (approx. 10 DPS), the 1.1 percent block difference (approx. 6 DPS), we still end up with a 11.2 DPS difference. Is this simply human error?
Considering the spreadsheet gives us a more drastic 38.87 dps difference, it seems this new macro may not be as weapon speed dependent, but is still affected by it. The thing i find the most interesting s that the ratio of steady shots to auto shots was virtually the same regardless of weapon speed. This is the second test i ran today, as my first one got cut short due to raiding schedule. the previous test seemed to point to similar results, but not quite as drastic a gap.
It should be noted that Dr. Boom test are not fully accurate and are subject to error and mathematical variance. Even the test sample of 1000 hits was showing fluctuations of 20 to 30 DPS midway through and up until a 8 dps variation in last 200 hits (due to crit rate fluctuations and normalization of damage averages).
Needless to say, i feel more testing needs to be done.
How much of this difference do i account to weapon speed, and how much to the difference between the two weapons?
If i adjust for the difference in weapon (approx. 10 DPS), the 1.1 percent block difference (approx. 6 DPS), we still end up with a 11.2 DPS difference. Is this simply human error?
Considering the spreadsheet gives us a more drastic 38.87 dps difference, it seems this new macro may not be as weapon speed dependent, but is still affected by it. The thing i find the most interesting s that the ratio of steady shots to auto shots was virtually the same regardless of weapon speed. This is the second test i ran today, as my first one got cut short due to raiding schedule. the previous test seemed to point to similar results, but not quite as drastic a gap.
It should be noted that Dr. Boom test are not fully accurate and are subject to error and mathematical variance. Even the test sample of 1000 hits was showing fluctuations of 20 to 30 DPS midway through and up until a 8 dps variation in last 200 hits (due to crit rate fluctuations and normalization of damage averages).
Needless to say, i feel more testing needs to be done.
A couple of questions:
1 - Why do you account for 10 DPS difference between the weapons in your conversions, isn't it 2.9?
2 - Wouldn't the differences in block mean that the bow was under-represented in its DPS?
3 - In the spreadsheet, did you turn off Hunter's Mark? And also not use it in your tests? The faster weapon will see more benefit as it ramps it up quicker.
4 - It's possible to correct for crit rate imbalance by just re-figuring the numbers by turning all crits back into normal hits (divide damage by 2.3 or 2.33 as necessary.) You could also add a -crit rating modifier to the spreadsheet to eliminate them there as well.
5 - What Armor value did you give Boom in the spreadsheet? That would effect the difference it says between the weapons.
Based on those questions, the answers may yield that there is the same difference in weapon speed now as there was last month. This is a great test, but I think we need to make sure we handle the data properly.
A couple of questions:
1 - Why do you account for 10 DPS difference between the weapons in your conversions, isn't it 2.9?
2 - Wouldn't the differences in block mean that the bow was under-represented in its DPS?
3 - In the spreadsheet, did you turn off Hunter's Mark? And also not use it in your tests? The faster weapon will see more benefit as it ramps it up quicker.
4 - It's possible to correct for crit rate imbalance by just re-figuring the numbers by turning all crits back into normal hits (divide damage by 2.3 or 2.33 as necessary.) You could also add a -crit rating modifier to the spreadsheet to eliminate them there as well.
5 - What Armor value did you give Boom in the spreadsheet? That would effect the difference it says between the weapons.
Based on those questions, the answers may yield that there is the same difference in weapon speed now as there was last month. This is a great test, but I think we need to make sure we handle the data properly.
1- paperdoll dps difference of 5.2, after modifications, x 2 to account for effect on auto shot and steady shot. This is an approximation to try to find the difference between the two weapons independent of bow speed.
2- correct, my mistake, so bow actually gains 6, not loses 6.
3- no hunter's mark on test, all buffs and debuffs turned off on spreadsheet.
4 - the difference in crits was 0.1 on test so i didnt feel it was neccessary to adjust for it since the test rates were so close to the paperdoll change
5 - standard armor value, as is default for level 73. should probably change that to a lower setting.
But as it looks anyway, it seems this macro is weapon speed dependent, especially since it took about 80 seconds longer to finish the test through 1000 rounds with the slower weapon, but the ratio of steady shots was basically the same, so it seems the steady shot is delayed according the weapon speed.
Cheeky can you link back to the previous test you have mentioned?
1- paperdoll dps difference of 5.2, after modifications, x 2 to account for effect on auto shot and steady shot. This is an approximation to try to find the difference between the two weapons independent of bow speed.
2- correct, my mistake, so bow actually gains 6, not loses 6.
3- no hunter's mark on test, all buffs and debuffs turned off on spreadsheet.
4 - the difference in crits was 0.1 on test so i didnt feel it was neccessary to adjust for it since the test rates were so close to the paperdoll change
5 - standard armor value, as is default for level 73. should probably change that to a lower setting.
But as it looks anyway, it seems this macro is weapon speed dependent, especially since it took about 80 seconds longer to finish the test through 1000 rounds with the slower weapon, but the ratio of steady shots was basically the same, so it seems the steady shot is delayed according the weapon speed.
Cheeky can you link back to the previous test you have mentioned?
1 - Whoops, I completely forgot Steady Shot. I'm an idiot.
3 - Did you set the rank for Hunter's Mark to 0 in the spreadsheet?
4 - You're right, if they are the same they are immaterial.
I'm working on a theory for exactly why people are seeing the behavior they are seeing with this new macro, and weapon speed is going to play into it. As does latency (to a degree) and how fast you can spam it. I'm running my ideas by Lactose and then I'll present them here once he's poked all the holes in them.
What previous test? When I referenced last month, I meant the established BM Hunter preference for faster weapons.
With my latency, either spamming the macro posted earlier or trying to manually weave shots, I'm getting the same DPS and the same mana usage. I'll try later on Dr. Boom so I have numbers to back this up.
01/20/08, 1:22 AM
If it's not please post actual macros rather then posting what changes need to be made.
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