So it seems that 2.09spd is the "sweet spot" for the spam macro, but why is that? Any math why hasting from 2.17 to 2.09 yields a 5 Auto Shot increase, where as hasting from 2.09 to 2.02 only yields a 1 Auto Shot increase? Could it just be lag, or an anomaly that needs more data sets to average out, or is there a mathmatical "sweet spot" for weapon speed?

That is a good question. Latency is a big factor in any test like that.

Nosti what was your average latency on the tests?

I'm not entirely sure, but during that time of the day my latency typically varies between 30 and 60 ms, so rather low.

EDIT: did the spammacro 2.17, 2.09 and 2.02 tests again and got exactly the same results

I believe there will be a 'sweet' spot somewhere, or at least a spot after which increasing speed further has no noticable effect.

EDIT: I believe that there won't be a sweet spot, but several -pretty- 'sweet' spots, in the sense that haste might have no decent effect unless you pass certain thresholds, aka step-function.

I'm trying to model this rotation, but there are still some things I don't understand about that rotation and if you are aware please reply.

#1
If I spam Steady Shot, will it be cast every 1.5 seconds (GCD), or will the Auto Shots in between delay it sometimes? 74 Steady Shot * 1.5 second = 111 seconds. But if you add 0.1 second latency/reaction time for each GCD you get 74 * 1.6 second = 118.4, which is really close to 120 seconds.

#2
Auto Shot has a 0.5 seconds casting time, but can this casting time start when the GCD is still active?

#3
How do I calculate the casting time of Steady Shot? With quiver, Bestial Swiftness, haste rating? Do all 3 have an effect?


EDIT:

spam macro driven 1:1.5 shot rotation (1.95 speed using Long Redwood Bow (2.8))

duration = 2 minutes (Hunter's Mark duration)

amount of steady shots = 74
amount of auto shots = 54

total shots = 128

Auto Shot is controlled server-side, the GCD is client only, so they are completely independant.

All haste effects lower the cast time of Steady Shot.

Hello guys,
What is your opinion(experience) about (Tuskbreaker - Items - World of Warcraft)

I'm trying to calculate the effective bow speed and Steady Shot casting time from scratch using 15% quiver + 20% Bestial Swiftness + additional haste rating but the formula I found on WoWiki seems flawed, or I'm doign somethign wrong.

Ive been researching about the BT hunter trinket [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness] and tried to theory some about the new 3:2 rotation and the trinkets procc, seeing as we now fire off more SSs in ten seconds then with the old /castsequence this trinket might be undervalued.

I personally fire off two SSs and one AS in 2.7seconds, in ten seconds i fire off a total of 7.4 SSs, this trinket needs an avrage of 6.66666 SSs to procc it's effect. Now I could be far far off since math neither theorycrafting is for me, I just spread the word around about new mechanics, but I would like that someone that is alot more into the maths to do crunch some numbers and help me out. Would be greatly appreciated.

Apologies for cross-posting but the relevant discussion seems to be jumping from thread to thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/620136-post397.html

_Issue_: In my albeit limited tests, there appears to be a serious problem implementing 3:2 when your pet is actually attacking (and KC is in the macro).

To add to what is in that post, I recently went to Dr Boom with the same gear discussed in the post above, and edited the 3:2 macro so that the KC command was just \cast Kill Command, with no modifiers for the pet having a target. The same issue arose.

Hence, _query_: Can 3:2 be implemented when your pet is actually attacking something? My data suggests not but perhaps I have screwed up somehow.

I have a question on the new macro. I tried it out last night in Kara and had some unexpected results. The macro I used was:

/cast !Auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

When I was spamming that the only thing I did was cast auto shot. I never saw steady shot go off even once in the first 4 trash pulls going to Moroes. Am I missing something on the macro? Also, doesn't having kill command on just /cast rather than /castrandom mean it won't do steady shot till it casts kill command or am I missing something there as well? Any help is appreciated.

Here are some more measurements, this time with close attention paid to Quickshot uptime.

/castsequence macro, Dr. Boom, 1.96 speed, ~80msec latency, hunter's mark clicked, macro spammed, exactly 1 minute elapsed.
same as above, except using Abacus of Violent Odds also
/cast !auto /cast steady macro instead, no Abacus
as above, except with abacus
As expected, the /cast macro gives ~5% more shots.

Given my latency of ~80-100 msec, 60/1.6 = 37.5 which matches the number of steady shots I am seeing above.

Haste made the autoshots shoot faster, thereby giving more steady shots with the castsequence macro, which matches what I see above.

Stupidly, I thought quickshot affected steady shots, but of course it doesn't.

What the above says is that possibly the haste that the Abacus gives you may not get you any extra shots at all if you use the /cast /cast macro. In which case the trinket is not as good as the Hourglass or even the Core of Ar'kelos.

Last teron kill, i had 110 steadies in 191secs and the trinket proced 11 times. I don't know if
this helps you at all, but it's an indication.

WWS LOG

With my rate of fire, the theoretical procs should have been about 16, so it's pretty close.
Especially if we take into account that when and if a proc gets refreshed, this new proc is probably not(?) recorded in the WWS log. Although i am not 100% sure about this last thing.

Meaning that i am not sure what happens if a new proc refreshes a previous one, is it recorded in the wws logs as a new proc or not being counted at all ? I think the latter (as this happens with FI too), but just in case If someone knows for sure, please let me know.

If that is the macro copied directly from your game, your problem is overlooking capitalization. You'll need to properly capitalize the S's in both Auto Shot and Steady Shot.

Reminds me of when my warlock stopcasting macro wouldn't work because I made it /cast Shadowbolt instead of /cast Shadow Bolt hehe.

EDIT: Just kidding, it works even with the lower case S, I just tested it. The only other thing I can think of is there might be extra spaces in there somewhere. I'm not sure if that affects it though.

It seems as if when im spamming my normal old 1:1 steady shot macro, everytime after it casts kill command it lags up and sits there not casting for a sec, then starts up again. I don't understand why this happens if KC isn't in anyway on the GCD....

Any ideas?

Another question concerning weapon choise at the moment i'm still using Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle.
But since we killed Lady Vash last night the bow that she drops comes into my reach.
I'm a 41/20/0 Beastmaster hunter. Should i go for the bow Lady Vash drops or should i stick wih my Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle ?

I got a question about raiding as BM, since I would like to give it a final go because of its famous higher dps compared to any other hunter spec. I've always been MM (pre-TBC and with a 7/48/6 actual build). Actually we are raiding MH (4/5) and BT (4/9). Usually i can get good overall dps as MM, but last raid (BT, pet died only twice, specced BM 41/20) my damage went a bit crappy (way crap compared to my usual one)... using a 1:1 rotation instead of the 1:1.5 (with arcane and multi) which I used as MM. Any suggestions about it? I can't believe I am doing more dmg as MM than BM with the same gear. Armory isn't working so i'll write a few stats of me:

As MM selfbuffed with TSA and AoTH:

2306 AP
29,22% crit
140 hit rating
speed 2.52s

I don't have 2xT5, though I have beast tamers shoulders if it can help.

Any suggestion is of course welcomed, thanks <3

I have both the [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] and [Serpent Spine Longbow]. I use the gun for all raid fights except Kael'thas (you really want a quiver equipped for this one). I use the bow in PvP exclusively.

You know we really need a synopsis post , all of these threads are so dang long.

Ok I need some help from the Math guys. I have done test after test, but they are inconsistent and I can't get a good result.

I have the WSR and Sunfury. I also have the DST. As a normal 41/20 BM spec with IAOTH, counting in procs from DST and IAOTH, which weapon is "theoretically" better using the "new" shot macro.

Cheekys isn't helping me with the new macro, and due to so many procs and such, my Dr Boom testing is hard to get consistent data.

Cheeky,

I am a much less experienced hunter than you and stand in awe of the work you have put into your spreadsheet. I use it almost exclusively for determining upgrades and shot cycles.

However, since 2.3.2 and the new 3:2 macro discussed in this thread I went out to Dr. Boom and did some testing. After viewing the results I started using my Sunfury bow (which like you I previously only used for pvp) instead of the WSR in raids with the 3:2 rotation. The result was about a 150dps boost over the old 1:1 macro with WSR. The bow was only slightly better than the WSR in testing (and I am a troll). For testing I used aspect of viper, no hunters mark, and popped no cooldowns. Additionally, the bow shoud be more tolerant of lag than the WSR when Rapid Fire, IAoH, Dragonspine, Bloodlust, ... pop or more haste gear is added.

The new shot mechanics, intentionally or otherwise seem to have freed bm hunters from weapon speed as the overriding factor in dps. I am prepared to switch back should Blizzard decide to revert the change, but right now I think the bow is the better weapon if you are a troll and use the 3:2 rotation macro.

A lot of people are seeing that. I haven't been one of them. I think part of the OMGness of it is because people were unaware of how badly their /castsequence macros were hurting them, and the new macro does not have that problem. I haven't come up with what I feel is a good model of how the new macro works yet. I'm doing a little work on it, but with 2.4 looming I may delay putting hours into changing the spreadsheet just to have to deal with whatever new thing arrives. I have a sneaking suspicion we're kinda "between mechanics" right now. Either that, or Blizzard has been even more clueless than usual in regards to Hunter DPS mechanics the last couple patches/hotfixes.

I strongly recommend any Hunter try out all their weapons/macros and see what works best. There is some talk now that using KC in the macro causes you to clobber more Auto Shots. If that's true it may mean the new macro is no more total DPS (all tests have been petless on Dr. Boom) and less mana efficiency.

There are a lot of Hunters doing work on this, like Thayer. Hopefully that research will let us construct a better model of the timings of things.

Hi guys,

First of all thanks to all those for all the great help you provide on these forums. I've been reading around on and off all day today, but Im still confused on a few things. Please know I definitely have used the search function, i was just hoping for some clarification

Id like to know what the optimal macro for me would be as a 41/20 bm hunter with th s1 pvp xbow. I used the "old" macro for a while then just recently updated it with a newer macro with the !Auto Shot deal in it.. im just not sure if thats what i should be doing??

I used the spreadsheet but its all confusing to me, lol..

Here's my armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

1738 rap and 27.46% crit unbuffed w/ aoth. Any advice on appropriate macro would be great.. Thanks!

I believe what the posts above are saying is nobody knows what "best" is right now. Plenty of people have posted what works for them over the last several pages. You need to go spend some quality time with Dr Boom testing each with your range off weapons to see what works best for you. Over time things will become more definitive but for now thats the best you can do.

First, thank you all for doing all this testing and theory-work. I love messing with numbers and used to think I was good at it until I got to this site.

At the moment, I am using the arcanite-steam pistol (2.9 base speed), 41/20 BM, 15% quiver, and 25 Haste bonus. With the new macro, I have seen an inrease in raid damage using the other hunters as reference.

My question is: when Rapid Fire is used and/or IAotH procs (or DST for that matter which Im still in the back of the line for), is it better to switch to 1:1 during the haste or continue to spam the macro? Or at what speed is it better to switch to 1:1 ratio?

Ive tried to test it, but the IAotH procs are too random and rapid fire is too short to give consistant results.