Thats pretty much what i thought I just wanted to be sure. Mostly Because one of the hunters in my guild has gone that way from bm and i didnt want to say WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING. Just wanted to help him be the best hunter he could be no matter the spec
Considering I haven't seen an uproar in the Hunter community about mass hunter bans (and I doubt the type of "hunters" that did get banned would speak up on the forums), nor have I myself received any action for this kind of behaviour even though I've been using it for well over 3 months, I'd take this with a grain of salt.
My faith in the Blizzard AA dudes suggest they do look a bit further than just "he spammed a key a lot -> ban", and my typing in raidchat and manually clicking some consumables makes it pretty obvious I'm not botting either. More likely the above is just to cover their bases because some people will try to dispute their bans that way if they didn't.
New to forum and been loving the amount of information available. I did allot of research and decided to post in hopes someone could help me with a situation im in, If this has been answered im sorry I could not find it. I run five accounts at once and currently play five hunters. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if it would be better dps in the long run having five BM hunters or 4 BM and 1Marks. I know the trueshot should add about 34dps give or take, but I know also that I would then be losing ferocious inspiration which is up about 97% of the time and also serpents swiftness. I thought about maybe going 3 BM, 1 Marks and 1 Surv but quickly decided that expose armor could not compare to the dps I would lose in BM. I am really thinking that 5xbm would be better dps but I am really not sure. I would love to hear some thought and opinions on the matter I as regard this community's opinions in high regard. Thanks in advance for your help.
New to forum and been loving the amount of information available. I did allot of research and decided to post in hopes someone could help me with a situation im in, If this has been answered im sorry I could not find it. I run five accounts at once and currently play five hunters. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if it would be better dps in the long run having five BM hunters or 4 BM and 1Marks. I know the trueshot should add about 34dps give or take, but I know also that I would then be losing ferocious inspiration which is up about 97% of the time and also serpents swiftness. I thought about maybe going 3 BM, 1 Marks and 1 Surv but quickly decided that expose armor could not compare to the dps I would lose in BM. I am really thinking that 5xbm would be better dps but I am really not sure. I would love to hear some thought and opinions on the matter I as regard this community's opinions in high regard. Thanks in advance for your help.
That's an interesting question. I'll use my gear to estimate the numbers (4 x T5.) I'm using Cheeky's spreadsheet, but with all raid buffs turned off (but using Major Agility and Warp Burgers.) I also turned off FI so I could stack it myself.
1 BM = 1200 dps 1 Surv = 1000 dps
5 BM x 5 FI (uptime 100% to keep it simple) = 1200 x 5 x 1.15 = 6900 dps
(4 BM (EW) + 1 Surv(EW)) x (4 FI ) = (4 x 1250 + 1050) x 1.12 = 6776 dps (assuming 220 rap from EW)
Since TSA rap < EW rap, there's no point in trying that.
A more accurate analysis would take into account that FI isn't up anywhere near 100% of the time, despite the theoretical expected uptime (and same for EW.) Since FI is a 3% damage bonus, whereas EW is about a 4-5% damage bonus, but Survival hunters have less dps, it's probably reasonable to conclude it's a wash in practice, and you should do what works for you best in terms of being able to control the players.
Considering I haven't seen an uproar in the Hunter community about mass hunter bans (and I doubt the type of "hunters" that did get banned would speak up on the forums), nor have I myself received any action for this kind of behaviour even though I've been using it for well over 3 months, I'd take this with a grain of salt.
My faith in the Blizzard AA dudes suggest they do look a bit further than just "he spammed a key a lot -> ban", and my typing in raidchat and manually clicking some consumables makes it pretty obvious I'm not botting either. More likely the above is just to cover their bases because some people will try to dispute their bans that way if they didn't.
Understood, but I'd still prefer if there was a way to get the same effect without violating the explicitly-interpreted ToS.
It seems reasonable to bind, say F1 to F4 to 2 separate macros and just "play the piano" with the 4 keys to spam the macros at a finger rate that is 1/4 what it would have to be otherwise. (i.e, just hit the keys F1,F2,F3,F4 in that order with 4 fingers one after another.) I'll experiment with this tomorrow. One possibility is steady is in one macro and auto is in the other. Another is that they are both the same macro. Should be interesting!
I'll also try to see if there's any way at all I can press just 1 key per second, roughly, and still get the same dps (I've got both Quartz and Sorren's shot timer installed.) I'd also be interested in exact shot strategies that people use that manually time their shots (i.e., are you actually able to maintain a 3:2 rotation when no haste effects are in place?)
We should probably continue this discussion in the Shot Rotation thread.
That's an interesting question. I'll use my gear to estimate the numbers (4 x T5.) I'm using Cheeky's spreadsheet, but with all raid buffs turned off (but using Major Agility and Warp Burgers.) I also turned off FI so I could stack it myself.
1 BM = 1200 dps 1 Surv = 1000 dps
5 BM x 5 FI (uptime 100% to keep it simple) = 1200 x 5 x 1.15 = 6900 dps
(4 BM (EW) + 1 Surv(EW)) x (4 FI ) = (4 x 1250 + 1050) x 1.12 = 6776 dps (assuming 220 rap from EW)
Since TSA rap < EW rap, there's no point in trying that.
A more accurate analysis would take into account that FI isn't up anywhere near 100% of the time, despite the theoretical expected uptime (and same for EW.) Since FI is a 3% damage bonus, whereas EW is about a 4-5% damage bonus, but Survival hunters have less dps, it's probably reasonable to conclude it's a wash in practice, and you should do what works for you best in terms of being able to control the players.
Thats Awesome bro. I would love to know how you came up with this math. I was pretty sure that EW was not as good as FI but what I was asking and really want to know is If I should make 1 of the 5 hunters Markmans for True Shot Aura or have all 5 BM for 5xFI??? thanks in advance.
Thats Awesome bro. I would love to know how you came up with this math. I was pretty sure that EW was not as good as FI but what I was asking and really want to know is If I should make 1 of the 5 hunters Markmans for True Shot Aura or have all 5 BM for 5xFI??? thanks in advance.
If you actually read the quote you can see where he says TSA < EW, answering your question...
If you actually read the quote you can see where he says TSA < EW, answering your question...
Yea man im sorry I feel dumb and should. I have not been to sleep and took me a while to get that. Thanks again Cranch for your awesomeness and help. And thanks Jurgen for pointing out my stupidity , Ima go get some sleep now, this forum is so awesome I am learning so much researching here. Thanks everyone.
Presumably, Warden has now been modified to check for a G15 driver, and to see if the driver was programmed to press a shot macro key repeatedly. Otherwise, it would be hard to distinguish the disallowed events from someone accurately pressing keys over time.
It's unfortunate that BM hunters can't maximize their dps without pressing a large number of keys in a short period of time, with most of the keys having no effect.
I've been using AutoHotKey for quite a while, and this seems like bad news. However, AHK can compile it's scripts, so it would be harder for Warden to check for a particular process, since the compiled executables will differ from script to script. Making your script wait for a random interval between keystrokes might be useful too:
This will spam the "2" key at about 20Hz, but the individual waiting periods between keystrokes will vary.
And, if all else fails, the technically inclined could fashion an external USB keyboard type device that would spam the steady macro. Whoever is comfortable with a soldering gun and C programming could easily tweak something like HIDKeys into a steady-shot-spamming-footpedal
Presumably, Warden has now been modified to check for a G15 driver, and to see if the driver was programmed to press a shot macro key repeatedly. Otherwise, it would be hard to distinguish the disallowed events from someone accurately pressing keys over time.
It's unfortunate that BM hunters can't maximize their dps without pressing a large number of keys in a short period of time, with most of the keys having no effect.
It is more unfortunate that Blizzard ban and then inform us. Luckily i don't have a G15, but I was close to buying one for this reason. For years they have allowed this and never said a word or a warning. That isn't terribly great form. Perhaps people could have read through the big screen of text, but really a more solid warning would have cost Blizzard nothing and allowed all those normal players to not get banned, and yes I have heard of people getting banned, mostly they just settle with moving on as they hit a brick wall emailing. Meh...
Remember if you are banned from the game you can't post on the forum either.
Last edited by KraxisSingular : 05/30/08 at 10:28 AM.
It is more unfortunate that Blizzard ban and then inform us. Luckily i don't have a G15, but I was close to buying one for this reason. For years they have allowed this and never said a word or a warning. That isn't terribly great form. Perhaps people could have read through the big screen of text, but really a more solid warning would have cost Blizzard nothing and allowed all those normal players to not get banned, and yes I have heard of people getting banned, mostly they just settle with moving on as they hit a brick wall emailing. Meh...
Remember if you are banned from the game you can't post on the forum either.
I had no idea this could happen. I use a Nostrom N52 gamepad because I multi box running 5 clients on one machine. I use it because of the fact I have to use 1000's of macros in game. I use no automation like that but I do set my keys to turbo. This means basicly instead of having to press my power over and over I can just hold down a key and it fires it over and over on turbo. I use all my keys like this. I hope that is not a problem. I dont see any advantage form doing it as I am not using any macro's or anything. What do you all think?
I don't see any difference in binding a n52 or G15 key to W and holding it down to run forward, or assigning a macro to a specific key and having that key bound and held down. I mean honestly, are you going to wack your G15 "move forward" button once for every step you take, or do you just hold it down to move forward? I can see them getting upset if you're using software/hardware that allows custom scrips, but if you're simply replicating a single keypress while using the in-game macro system?
Well in the thread they differenciate between moving and casting because the game makes the differenciation. The game understands and performs the 'lazy' hold for moving, but won't allow it for other stuff (as you will quickly notice when you play the first time, you can't just hold down the button for your cast attacks). So when you circumvent that (and don't require to press the button for ever action, aside from moving) then you have done some automation. And that they can, and apparently will ban people for.
I suggest you just get rid of these things. Risking the loss is not worth it when you can still manage otherwise. Personally I have any action that requires spam bound to my mousewheel up and down. Makes for an easy lazy moving one finger backwards and forwards a little.
I personally look at it like this. You can't tell the guy who uses the G15 for his shot rotation that it is ok and then tell some guy in AV who uses it so they can afk that it isn't ok. While these are two different extremes you are using the same feature of the keyboard to achieve them.
Automation is automation and if Blizzard was to say, 'go ahead and use the G15 and all it has to offer, we don't care' then how can Blizzard possibly turn around and sue WoW Glider for what they are doing? I guess we would call that a double standard and that is bad business.
If two kids are caught for under aged drinking and one has 9 beers while the other had nothing more then a couple sips the cop is going to bust them both regardless because under aged drinking is under aged drinking.
The question is if Blizzard is actively seeking and banning those who are using a G15 keyboard to fire a shot rotation or cast their spells while they are raiding. The answer there is probably no.
They are simply on the record saying automation of any kind is unacceptable and those caught doing it will be banned. I think they are just covering their ass, thats my opinion.
Just to add onto that, I would think Logitech would need some sort of disclaimer saying that by using these features while playing World of Warcraft can result in the loss of your account and to use and your own risk. You go in Best Buy as some average Joe looking for a new keyboard, the G11 and G15s promote World of Warcraft. WoW is one of the games you can get presets for when you load the software. I really have to think that unless you are using the keyboard and its macro features in a malicious way there isn't much to worry about.
I don't see any difference in binding a n52 or G15 key to W and holding it down to run forward, or assigning a macro to a specific key and having that key bound and held down. I mean honestly, are you going to wack your G15 "move forward" button once for every step you take, or do you just hold it down to move forward? I can see them getting upset if you're using software/hardware that allows custom scrips, but if you're simply replicating a single keypress while using the in-game macro system?
OK so Just to follow up I sent a in game ticket to a GM and asked him if I was violating the ToS. He said that as long as I was not using it for any kind of automation then it was ok. He said If it was used in a sense where you press a key and the device either hardware of software would then send multiple keystrokes then that would be considered automation and a violation of the ToS. I just wanted to make sure sense I have 5 accounts with 70s on all 5, I do not want to get banned
Anyway I let him know while talking to him about how I 5 box and he said that was all good too, and I took some screenshots just in case. Just thought id share with you all.
Blizzard use G15s at all of their events including the last 2 BlizzCons and they all have the macro and keystroke settings activated. Blizzard also have, as far as i know, a moderately large deal with Logitech which means that all G15 keyboards come with a WoW mod pack (albeit heavily outdated) auto installed. If Blizzard are working this closely with the Logitech team and using the keyboard that you are referring to quite openly, I doubt that using the inbuilt auto-keypress feature is, in any way, a violation of the ToS. I believe there have been 2 or 3 blue posts as well that refer to the legality of using both the G15 keyboard and multibox hard/software.
As I was trying to illustrate before, the fact that shot rotation automation is legal or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether you can get caught or not, since we probably agree that trying to avoid getting carpal tunnel isn't all that immoral.
And while it might be easy to program Warden to check for G15 drivers, it would be significantly more difficult to detect a compiled AutoHotKey script (which can be used in conjunction with the G15, while we're at it). And it would be absolutely impossible to prove anything if you have a hardware device that behaves as a keyboard, since there'd be no other indication of it other than two keyboards being present (which is perfectly legal, I can have 10 connected at the same time if I want to use my USB ports).
People are not interested about how Blizzard will interpret the ToS. They are not interested if automation is legal or moral. What they do want, however, is not to get banned. So the only way to keep our spam up is be smart about it.
Hey, just had a quick question. My main is a shammy, and coming from the enhancement shaman thread, we had Pawn addon strings for gear. Are there any such strings set up for BM hunters? I did a search on Pawn, but got nada. Thanks!
Presumably, Warden has now been modified to check for a G15 driver, and to see if the driver was programmed to press a shot macro key repeatedly. Otherwise, it would be hard to distinguish the disallowed events from someone accurately pressing keys over time.
It's unfortunate that BM hunters can't maximize their dps without pressing a large number of keys in a short period of time, with most of the keys having no effect.
You know, I might be missing the point here, but this is not what he says. I think he and the person he was replying to were talking at cross purposes. What he is saying is you must not use it to automate things that macros are not capable of, for example using one key press to cast two spells in sequence.
So he says in a different thread:
Do not use them to automate game play in any fashion.
Do not use them so that a single macro press results in multiple actions.
Do not use them to insert time delays between hardware functions. For example, making a macro that causes your character cast a spell, delay one second, then cast another spell would be unacceptable.
Its clear (at least to me) that he is not talking about it spamming the same key (and thus firing the same macro) [which really - how is that different from binding it to your mouse wheel] but rather using it to "make a macro style function" that accomplishes something you can't do with the in-game macros - e.g. cast this thing, wait 1.2 secs, cast that thing.
This is not okay. One hardware function = one action, according to standard macro rules. A hardware function is a keypress (including press/release) associated with movement and an ability/item. Obviously, our default macro rules enable you to use 'modifying' trinkets or abilities, such as nature's swiftness, plus a single spell all in a single press.
To clarify: No, you may not use hardware or software to auto-spam your shot rotations - period.
Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max
just use mousewheele and all those problems should be solved.
well now to myproblem ...
i had more disconnects lately, and i am wondering if it could be possible that its why i changed my macro and spam it to often.
My guild is starting SSC and TK (Solarian down, Void Reaver try), cleared ZA (and trying to catch a bear =P), and Gruul farming. I need some tips about my gear and shot rotation: i've switched BM from Surv for a substantial increase of my dps, but i think there is something to do about small things...
Currently I am using that 1:1.5 shot rotation:
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/castsequence reset=1.62 !Auto shot, Steady Shot
/castrandom Arcane Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill command
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Recently i've take my Dragonspine Trophy, and i'm searching for a different macro when it proc.
Armory link on profile.
I know: 2 T5 pieces boorst my dps very well, but for now... =\
My doubts are: socketing, correctly shot rotation, and other stuff. I'm open to any kind of tips! =)
Hey, I'm new to the forum but I was hoping you guys could help me with a question about Lightning breath and bite.
Is it worth it to even train bite knowing that LB is the major dps or is it better to get bite and LB? DPS wise
and while im at it, if I am gonna use the wind serpent for pve mainly should i even get dash?
For some time I have been using Bite on top of LB. Mainly to see if it is worth it.
The argument behind getting Bite is that if you have LB bound to any sort of spamable key, then it will retain priority over Bite. Hence you will see no LBs getting displaced by untimely Bites. So the main negative point is solved there. So what is the positive point then? Well, at times we will be moving around the boss, in that timeperiod spamming the shotkey/macro is less likely (I try to do it still, but there are periods where it can't be done) and there are crit droughts as well. In those periods Bite will help a fair bit since the natural regen of the pet is at 2/2 BD 48 focus, just shy of LB. And a quick double crit will overload the LB after a drought. Bite will mean less lost focus due to that.
But, we are talking single digit DPS gain or lost. If some resistance needs those 29 points I suggest you take them right away over Bite.
05/29/08, 8:12 PM
, Ima go get some sleep now, this forum is so awesome I am learning so much researching here. Thanks everyone.
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