While there is no difference in stat/item budget, there is a very practical difference. Should you die in a bossfight (think of unavoidable deaths like Azgalor's doom or Teron's Shadow of death) and receive a Battleres or Soulstone you are lacking 20 hitrating since you can't refresh the now missing foodbuff. This means it is generally better to have the complete 142 hitrating on your gems and gear, and using the 20 agility food instead.

This proves what I said:
There is no server-side queue for cast resquest while waiting for the GCD.

But I'm wondering why the frequency is 1.53 and not 1.5 + Seconds per Click / 2 ( = 1.5005)...
Did you have any FPS problems?
Am I correct assuming you have around 13 FPS while spamming your macro?
Calculation: 1 / 0.039 / 2 = 12.82
- 0.039 is the average delay per Steady or 'Seconds per Click'
- /2 because sometimes, you click just after the GCD ends and sometimes *Clickfrequence* Seconds later

Well that have to go in the very knitpicking department won't it? Teron doesn't last more than 5min tops, Azgalor prolly a bit longer. But how often will you see a _hunter_ get combatressed in these fights? Isn't it usually shamans of any kind, spriests, healers etc that benefit the raid a bit more. And even if you do get the res, that short time with 20 less hitrating will hadly make any difference. When you venture into sunwell at least an early death is more or less fatal for your raid since most of the encounters are on a quite tight timer.

It is no secret that obtaining hit is very hard without equal bidding on leather loot. Since Blizz decided to entirely keep hit off i.e. the original t6 pieces. I'd say that in the earlier stages of the game you sacrifice to much by aiming for a strict 142 all the time.

I believe strongly in adapting your gear to the encounter.

On trash I dop my hit to around 95 and fill my open slots up with arm penetration, haste, crit, AP, other stuff...

If we have a balance druid around keeping up imp FF I also aim for 95 hit. Even for 75 hit with the hit food.

It takes some gear balancing and takes up some bag slots but it gives a good result.

You're not going to tell me you don't bring SR gear to Mother because you lack hit do you?

I did not record my FPS, but I believe it was above at least 20 the entire time. I will redo the test after my raid tonight and record my FPS.

Another possibility might be minor lag spikes. If I got a very small increase in latency just as the GCD came off, the packets might not be reaching the server at equal intervals, causing a short delay.

Actually this brings up a good point for me. On Sunwell bosses our moonkin likes to sacrifice himself to the attrition gods about half the time. Therefore I'm wondering if I'm hurting myself by gearing with the expectation the boss will have imp FF. I don't even want to talk about the times he forgets to put it up, forgets to refresh it, or plain doesn't care.

Are the stats that I gain worth risking the single most important stat, especially on a progression boss (where 0% miss is crucial for the first MDs)?

I redid the test. Same macro on my G15 spamming the same key every .001 seconds. The test this time lasted 600 seconds.

225 Auto Shots (2.67), 387 Steady Shots (1.55) Average latency ~260. 13 steadies short of the expected 400.

Now, the FPS part is where it gets weird. While casting a steady shot, my framerate would be in the 40-50 range. But the moment the GCD got close to coming off, my FPS just dropped. The lowest that my mod picked up was 6.7. This kept repeating in a cycle until I stopped the test.

Until now I thought the GCD works this way:
At the moment a cast is clicked, the gcd starts (not waiting for the server's 'OK') and prevents any other casts to be used.

But what you describes doesn't fit with my assumption...
There shouldn't be any delay, the first activation after the end of the gcd should start the next gcd and prevent the following clicks from causing lags.
I think the client waits for a signal from the server until he really stops all following clicks (Maybe the first click was prevented by something - In this case, a player with high latency would have to wait 200+ seconds until the alert message reaches him, preventing him from casting anything in the meantime.)

But this still doesn't explain the average 50 ms delay on your Shots... your Seconds per Steady, 1.55039 are nearly exactly 50 ms slower than expected (1.5005).

Any Idea where this could come from? Serverside computing time?
FPS problems?

Assuming 10 FPS while spamming the macro:
1 / 10 / 2 = 50 ms delay - exactly the number we want...

But this doesn't make any sense, because the FPS problems are caused by the clicks - At the moment the first click comes through shouldn't be any delay. (Well, the delay of 50 FPS... 10 ms)

I'm not entirely sure how this might relate, but by doing a few experiments in a duel with a guildy of mine, I have learned that the time stamps on combat logs are not put on by the server, but rather by the client. This can be seen here and here. Since we were fighting each other, the times should have been exactly the same. Even the times of random people gaining buffs were at different times.

Could this somehow be related to how I couldn't get steady shots every 1.5 seconds? I have no idea, I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas here.

On a completely other note, I couldn't find any information on whether pet AP affected claw or not. So I did another test in the deeprun tram, killing rats until I got 250 noncrits my gear on(751 pet AP), and another 250 noncrits without my gear on(366 pet AP). I was unspecced, and so was the pet with the exception of claw. The pet was a cat, was content throughout the entire test, and was using max rank claw(rank 9, 54 - 76 damage). The results I got were as follows:

With gear: Mean: 70.78 Max: 84 Min: 59
Without gear: Mean: 70.5 Max: 84 Min: 59

From the looks of it, it seems safe to conclude that pet AP has no effect on claw. The same probably goes for gore and bite also, but that would require more testing.

I see my mistake on hinting that a sub 1.5 fequency for SS is possible. I was looking at a WWS report where I was:

1) recieving "spell" haste via drums most the time
2) recieving Heroism/Bloodlust
3) having SS pushed back due to the nature of the fight

On points 1 & 2 above: Blizzard stated that Haste Rating would not effect the GCD of melee classes (and specifically hunters) while it would effect our cast times. Spell haste rating on the other hand does effect all caster class GCDs. With hunters being a mix of caster and melee mechanics, it has been theorized that spell haste (from drums and bloodlust) would infact lower our GCD (this hasn't been tested to my knowledge).

On point 3: having a SS cast pushed back eliminates the GCD from that cast allowing for the next SS to follow immediately afterwards (typically in the 1.1-1.3 second range). It is alot like having an Aimed shot (no GCD impact on the next special) go off followed immediately by a SS.

Bloodlust and drums do not lower the GCD from my experience. There is very noticeable clipping when bloodlust + drums + quick shots are up (1.2-1.3 sec auto shots).

I was actually able to get a steady shot every 1.5 seconds with a g5 spamming steady every .001 secs with 42 ms and around 120 fps.

I have a question about the 3:2 macro tho.. with a 2.06 paper doll speed i've been getting .06 - .08 pushback on auto after every second steady, was wondering if that's what i should be getting or is it around .5 like i've read.

Hey guys, my guild is on felmyst atm but i'm still trying to optimize my dps on brutallus.
This is a wws log of my best dmg. Wow Web Stats.
I only pulled off a 2047 dps. here's my armory The World of Warcraft Armory.
I'm supposed to do around 2150 or something like that on cheeky's spreedsheet, and I can't come close to that.
This attempt was even with 2 heroisms and Righteous Weapon Coating, and no burns, just straight up dps. Using mantia's macro. A G5 mouse set on cruise down, with cruise control speed on fast, and acceleration on high. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? thanks in advance.

I believe Bloodlust/Heroism are the only two abilities that lower the GCD.

Not for hunters. Hunter GCD is always 1.5 seconds.
No physical ability's GCD can be hasted.

Recently on Illidari Council/Illidan and in Sunwell my feign deaths haven't dropped my aggro. There was a span of time on IC and Illidan where my feign had no effect 6 times in a row. It's ridiculous. Is it server lag, I wonder. Even if it's not resisted, feign will sometimes just do nothing to your aggro. The only solution I've found so far is to switch to white damage/stop attacking, or if you're fortunate switch targets for a bit. Rogues vanish, as far as I know, can't be resisted and they don't fail to "vanish", so what's the big deal.

Honestly I just think blizzard hates hunters, that's why a lot of our gear has blue/yellow+blue slots and it's rare on rogues. :P

you'r wrong.. you can track wich mob resists your FD since the SCT shows you. So you just need to watch your direct target when you FDing.

Your methods are basically the same, except that having 122 hit would let you use 20 agi food for trash and 20 hit food for bosses, if you're really looking to min/max. For boss fights, they're identical.

Item stat cost increases exponentially, such that the 20th point of hit costs more than the 19th point. As a result, on a given item level, you could get 20 hit (or 20 agi), or you could get 13 hit and 13 agi. Thus, I find that getting most of my hit from items works out better point wise, since mixed stat items give you more overall stats. Also, since I value 1 point of agi the same as 1 point of hit, and value both more than 1 point of crit, I end up gemming 10 hit or 5 agi / 5 hit gems into yellow sockets to make up the missing hit. [Schematic: Biznicks 247x128 Accurascope] is another good way to make up hit, since 30 hit > 28 crit from both a stat and damage perspective.

Theorycraft is called theory craft for a reason, it is not necessarily an accurate representation of real WoW. The spreadsheet assumes ideal conditions, so I'd use it as a guide. For example, I'm not sure what your crit is supposed to be, but you had a 6% variation between auto-shot and steady shot. If you're supposed to be at 40% crit, but you're only critting 34% of the time, that's the DPS drop right there. If you're within 5% of the spreadsheet, I think you're doing fine.

I'd spend time helping Lotius instead. Even with 2 burns, his DPS seems low. Only 96% of his time spent DPSing? What did he do the other 4% of the time? He swapped to Aspect of the Viper, which means he probably should have potted earlier to get another mana pot in and kept Hawk up. He's averaging 1 shot (auto or steady) every 1.14 sec. If you're doing 1:1, that's a 2.28 sec cycle, far slower than his 2.17 un-hasted speed. Quick Shots, Drums of Battle, Heroism x2, 3:2 cycle, and DST should all make his shots faster, not slower. By comparison, you're getting a shot off every .99 sec. Even allowing for lost time during the 2 burns, he should be getting a lot more shots of during that time. He may have gotten unlucky with FD resists and had to hold back, or he could be using a bad macro or having trouble with his cycle.

Is it really this way? Do you have any source to prove this statement? I would really appreciate it.

On the rest, I'm absolutely with you. I like to spread my hit rating on various items. Just because we are still raiding middle Tier6 and therefor I can't get my hands on best-in-slots. I get a new item every now and then and don't like it if I loose a bunch of hit (or push myself way over hit-cap).

So not sure if this is the right spot to post this... but here goes.

I am in a 4/6 SWP guild that I joined about 1 month ago. I was coming from a guild that had not killed anything in SWP, so I have had to learn the 4 farmed fights on the fly. As you can see in my armory, the WOW gods have been generous and I picked up T6 bracers and belt, and the rest of my gear was most of the best I could get pre-SWP.

We are working on Muru, and I have for the first time in my WOW career been benched for DPS issues. In my old guild I was pretty much top dog, with my DPS on most straight forward fights approaching 2k or exceeding. With my new guild I have yet to survive a Brut kill but on death I have been ranging from 2k-2.4k depending on group comp, and I have pulled over 1900 on my own recount of Kalecgos. We just recruited a feral tank, so with any luck I should be seeing a LoTP soon. We raid two hunters, me and one survival, so no second FI for me. I normally get a Bloodlust and if I am lucky a twisted GOA tot.

My question is, what gives with the Muru phase one. I am working with the best tanks I have ever played with and I am threat capped like crazy on the ads. Also I am asked to trap the doorway so that movement slows my DPS as well. Lastly I am responsible for a MD on the Void Sentinel as well so when I have to move to get in position for that my DPS drops considerably also.

I am not one to complain and of course it is most important that the guild down the boss, but I am very disappointed with my own performance and was wondering if there is anything I am missing to make things better. Also for my own sanity I wanted to feel like I wasn't the only one this had happened to. On our Muru phase one attempts I am running at around 12-1400 DPS and about 90-92 up time between all of the threat issues, and movement that is required.

Thanks for whatever help you folks can provide.

Well 1200-1400 sounds about right for phase 1 of Muru. As long as the adds are going down before the next set arrives there shouldnt be any issues, i would save cooldowns for if we fall behind. For threat capped it depended on the tank- i was threat capped when our druid tank side but no issues with our normal prot warrior side. We tanked them all so i would be on muru for the first 15% of the first add then go to town. Like i said if the adds are going down befor ethe next group who cares. An aggro pull is a wipe plain and simple so dont push it too far. Have yet to see the changes with HP from this patch but my guess is it will be alot easier now.

Oh yeah the only time i have to MD the sent is liek 3rd or 4th spawn which seems to cause issues for our tanks.