Beast Mastery Bible - Page 272

daemitus · 08/11/08, 5:42 PM

generally, with your choices between those two items, you dont have the haste to make sunfury work. the gun is superior in almost every sense.

Final_Rest · 08/11/08, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by NotQuiteThere

First time poster long time reader. Sry in advance for the wall of text....I tend to get in to this...

With all of the discussion of haste cap and when to use haste vs other stats I figure this might be a good spot for my first post.

I would consider myself a ridiculously geared Alliance Dwarf hunter in 4/6 SWP guild working on Muru.

Over the past several months I have been through testing of multiple different macros and gear combinations in order to put up the numbers my guildmates said i should have been putting up. I have used Cheeky's forever and have not quite seen the numbers its given me until recently.

My fellow hunters in the guild and I began recently combatting a post by another guild member who posted a WWS of one of SK Gaming's hunters doing 3000 dps on a Brutallus fight and said that he was giving us something to shoot for. On average I would do about 2000 dps in a grp with a Warrior, a Feral Druid and some other random classes but never really a shaman. I had been told I was not doing what I needed to be doing to put up the numbers I should be so I did not deserve a stacked grp. Through testing multiple variations of macros (ie /cast auto /cast steady /cast KC /cast LB) I would arrange them around in different orders hoping to see at least 2500 or so dps, but I still hovered around 2k.

I always thought my low dps was a factor of using the badge bow along with the DST and the rotation being off or something I was doing wrong. I was at my wits end and decided to instead of using the badge bow like I had been I would go with the Arcanite Steam-Pistol and no haste other than the DST. I had recently gotten the Felspine and using it along with the badge bow didnt seem to improve things. So with the Steam-Pistol and mojo daggers x2 and 3 hunters in the raid I just happened to get put in to a group with a Feral Druid, A Shaman, A Warrior, and a Pally and FINALLY I did almost 2600 dps I was ~50 dps from beating our Dual warglaive rogue. I think this proved to them that group was the problem and not me personally. Again latter that week in BT they stacked 3 BM hunters Feral Druid Shaman and we definately ranked much higher than usual for the night.

So now that the the group thing has been situated I wish I had kept all of my data on what rotation or arrangement of /casts seemed to work the best but I tossed it all thinking it was bad since I hadn't done 2500 dps.

I usually sit at about 170ms Latency and use 3:2 of some variation.

With Badge bow I can either sit at 2.03 unhasted or I can use the Pistol and sit at 2.1 unhasted

I can put on various haste items to lower both speeds dramatically. Pistol with Felspine is 2.03. Badge bow with felspine 1.96.

I also have Grip of Mannoroth and Grips of Damnation to play with for additional haste without a terrible loss of dps according to the spreadsheet. Still havent gotten the ZA cloak or Trink to drop for me

I have been using the badge bow for some time now along with DST. Even with the Arcanite Steam Pistol the WWS most nights does not look right at ALL. Instead of SS SS AS SS AS I was seeing SS SS SS AS SS SS AS SS AS SS SS SS AS. I can not figure out where the steady strings are coming from. With the Pistol unhasted I think because I was sitting at 2.1 speed along with latency pushed me in to a 2:1 and 1:1 at points rather than a 3:2 and 1:1 but when I am well below 2.1 with the bow I have no clue.

Questions...

1)With DST should I wear any haste items at all with the Badge bow. Should I even use the DST. Should I switch to the Steam-Pistol and use the DST and haste items. Should I spec out of Iaoth.

2)With all of the haste procs from rapid fire, drums, heroism, IaotH at once i go well below 1.2 close around .7 or so shot speed... would it be viable to try and use a 2:1 here and use the 3:2 when I am around 1.6ish shot speed and have it turn in to a 1:1. Or should I just let auto fire solo when I get that low.

3)Is there any arrangement of the 3:2 macro that is better than others ie having steady before auto or auto before steady or having KC at the begining or at the end or in the middle and the same for Lightning Breath. I wish I had kept all of my test data. Moral of the story..just because others tell you its your fault doesnt make it true.

4) Any suggestions on where the steady strings are coming from?

or should I screw all of the above and just go all out 1:1?

Next Brutallus I plan to go with Badge Bow, Felspine, DST and no other haste gear than that which has been my usualy setup for a LONG time before the group change. I am going to roll with a very simple 3:2. Unless you guys can offer suggestions otherwise. I usually always run with a Wind Serpent but the night of the 2600 Brut I brought a ravager because we were having an issue with it getting pally buffs and the ravager almsot always got the buffs it needed.

~2600 DPS Brutallus
Wow Web Stats

~2k DPS Brutallus
Wow Web Stats

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

Ive been playing with the use of the some gear over others according to Cheeky's spreadhseet:
SSO neck vs Choker of Nightmares
BM Shoulders vs T6
Eternal Champ ring vs Angelista's
Teron Cloak vs Kaelthas Cloak

PRAY GOLDEN BOW DROPS SOON....or even Bristleblitz for that matter.

Thanks in Advance

~Nim

Out of your current Gear set, cheeky's is showing Pistol/1:1 at about 2270 DPS, Pistol/3:2 at about 2310 DPS, Crossbow/3:2 at 2327, and Crossbow/1:1 at 1 DPS higher than the 3:2 at 2328. So with just felspine your best choice is using the Crossbow with a 1:1.

Plugging your gear into cheeky's, this is what i am looking at as far as comparing the Different items:
SSO > Choker by 6 DPS with your Current Hit.
Beast Tamers > T6 by 11 DPS
Eternal Champ > Angelista's by 12 DPS. (Though i could've sworn i've seen 126 static ArP is better than the Unreliable Proc from the Hyjal ring)
Teron Cloak > Kael Cloak by 12 DPS with your current hit.

I didn't answer everything, but this should help you a bit.

moonsprite · 08/11/08, 6:40 PM

Originally Posted by daemitus

generally, with your choices between those two items, you dont have the haste to make sunfury work. the gun is superior in almost every sense.

What rotation macro works best with wolfslayer no haste then?

blkthunder · 08/12/08, 12:51 AM

So according to my WWS logs i usually sit around 900ish DPS. This is a little disturbing to me due to the fact that ive always been top dps and it seems in t6 content the locks/mages are able to pull away from me prett good now. Cheekys sheet is saying i should be sitting at 1163.29 dps unbuffed.

Link to WWS
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Stats are:
AP: 2036 (w/hawk)
Crit: 29.69
Hit: Hit
Mana: 6658
Ar Pen: 308
Haste: 64
Bow: 2.8 speed

Specifics: Relentless earthshroud diamond, SSO neck, Hourglass/BB combo, also when at 20% mana switch to viper and 2xS1 1 Handers with 30 int on each and dual mana oils

What can i do to catch up to the other DPS with "easily available" upgrades?

Unfortunatly Armory is PVP gear but i'll relog tomorrow morning in PVE gear
The World of Warcraft Armory

Nataliah · 08/12/08, 1:50 AM

Your shot rotation is way off. You're trying to use arcane shot and multi-shot with steady shot, and as a beast mastery hunter, that isn't necessary. Even if you are trying to use those specials in place of steady shots in a 1:1 rotation, you're still not taking advantage of global cooldowns, seeing as how you have more auto shots than special shots combined. This is evident in your boss kills of The Lurker, Supremus, and Anetheron. Fire those steady shots and your DPS will go up.

Use a 3:2 macro instead. Many have been posted in this thread; just scroll up or check the previous page for the macro.

On Kaz'rogal, all you did was fire auto shots. I understand the nature of the fight and the importance of conserving mana, but at the same time you can't just stand there and auto shoot the boss to death. You have to use your mana if you want to keep up the DPS. Continue using steady shots, even for this fight.

On Morogrim, your abilities are all over the place. For the murlocs, drop an explosive trap and that's it. Let the mages and warlocks take care of the AOE. Skip the volley, raptor strikes, and wing clips. Focus on the boss. Your steady shot usage here is very low.

blkthunder · 08/12/08, 2:10 AM

yeah it kinda sucks, i was tasked with helping to aoe the murlocs, so i did the only aoe we have. Multi at min range, drop exp trap and volley, using the wing clips to kite the ones i pulled aggro on. :*(

I guess i'll go test out the dps of the 3:2 on Boom to see if it yields higher dps.

Barradin · 08/12/08, 2:39 PM

thunder,

most important things I find that ups your dps are:

A) KNOW THE FIGHT. I'm sure your competant knowing what to do and all. What I'm referring to is stay ahead of the bosses abilities. Know where to stand so that you have to do the minimal amount of moving while stlil not dying. By being able to stand and do nothing but shoot for 90% of the fight as opposed to 80%, you'll see a big improvement. For example, on alar in phase 1 you can move back and forth between only 2 positions so that you can shoot al'ar in any of his 5 positions. This means more shooting, less walking. Stuff like this can usually be applied to every boss.

B) maximize your cooldowns and shooting time. Aside from the first few critical seconds while the tank picks up aggro and positions the boss, you should be USING EVERY COOLDOWN. Figure out an order of firing so that you're always using an ability on every GCD. riding the therat cap? renew your hunter's mark, cast a scorpid sting... do something! it prevents you from having to do it later (or at least delays it). Time your trinkets to fire with rapid fire and bestial wrath if you have it. Use your cooldowns whenever they're available (and is safe to do so).

C) Shot rotation. This is what you'e been talking about already. Practice, experiment, see what works best. Shots per minute/second is a good indicator to see how well you're doing... especially on boom tests where you get dps numbers all over the place. Get that number higher and you'll do better (but usually spend more mana).

Sk1nk · 08/18/08, 7:21 AM

i read across the thread but over 100 pages are way to much to search through for getting my questions answered.

First of all I found many steadyshot autoshot macros, most of them eighter using

/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot

or

/castsequence reset=x Steady Shot, !Auto Shot (x=weaponspeed)

so long so good ... my problem was checking it back ... irelevant which one i used i got kind of 1:1 rotation, but the Auto Shot Timer of Quartz ran way often into getting chopped off.

so I used wowwiki.com to ensure understanding what these Macros do:

the /cast/cast macro toggles auto shot to on, and if done it spames Steady Shot ... it's like haven't any macro, and spamming the steady shot button

the /castsequence is supossed to avoid this via the reset=x ... but as wowwiki says ...

Originally Posted by [url=http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro

Making a macro - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft[/url]]Once you use the last entry in the list, it will reset to the beginning

so there isn't any avoidance at all, because the macro casts the steadyshot, toogle's on autoshot if it isn't, and beginnes with another steady shot, ignoring the timer

simple to test that i'm right by setting the resettimer up to 10 ... you won't have just 1 steady at 10 seconds

First question: any other macroideas for a perfect 1:1 cicle, especially not based on the groundspeed of the ranged weapon, because i want to use it even while in rapidfire and with Improved AotH proc'd

Second question: slightly offtopic, i currently equiped 149 haste, making my tuskbreaker a 1.92 weapon ... my goal was it to get as close to the 1.6 as possible, for spaming autoshot steadyshot just regulated by the global cooldown
but Haste lowers the castingtime of the steady aswell, so if i go off with rapidfire and AotH Proc my castingtime is around 0.6 for the shot, and 0.7 for the autoshot ... i tryed just triggering and shooting boom as long as i'm on Rapidfire and got a 1:1 cicle so it doesn't seem that the gc stay's 1,5 sec at all.
shoud it be useful to go full on haste, for having the perfect cycle even without RF or aren't there enouth items with haste on it, so I miss other important stats.

PS: my armory link, maybe needed http://eu.wowarmory.coml

nfmmalice · 08/18/08, 4:00 PM

Hey there... I know I dont have anywhere CLOSE to the Great gear that some people have, but I was looking for a little advice here.

Here's my Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

Im looking for little places to make Upgrades... You know.. in TYPICAL hunter fashion, while I out DPS Everyone in our Guild, I'm looking to COMPLETLY obliterate them.. hehe

We are a casual guild, so We haven't done most of the 25 Man content (Only Lurker and Hydross) But we have ZA on Farm...

Basically, with this build I'm looking at the following pieces:

Is Worgen Claw > Choker of Animalistic Fury
Is Shadowtooth Trollskin Cuirass > Demon Stalker with 3 +8 Agi (2pc Bonus only)
Is Abacus of Violent Odds > Hourglass of the Unraveller

And anything Else I can change with whats available.. Im getting ready to Resocket Everything to +8/10 Agi. With only 2 Greens to Satisfy the Meta Socket (Jagged Seasprays in the Helm and Boots.. everything else + Agi)

Any help would be appreciated. =)

Sarutobi · 08/18/08, 4:44 PM

The best way to see what upgrades are available to you given the level of content you're clearing is to use Cheeky's spreadsheet. Input your gear, shot rotation, buffs, etc, hit calc attributes, then switch over to the gear planner tab. Un-check the instances you're not currently clearing and viola, you have all of your available upgrades.

mako · 08/18/08, 4:44 PM

Cheeky's spreadsheet should be able to answer your "help me please" questions, and then some.

At your current hit rating, Animalistic Fury is probably better than Worgen Claw.
Abacus is probably going to be inferior to hourglass since I imagine you're using blb stacked with tbw already.

Edit: Damn it, Sarutobi beat me to the reply ><

Sk1nk · 08/20/08, 4:55 AM

Got another question:

At Manito's signature, there is a threat, posting this speedlist:

Weapon Speed || Steadies || Autos || Steady:Auto
______________________________________

| ........ 1.59 ........ || ..... 38 ...... || .. 38 .. || ...1.00:1 ... |
| ........ 1.61 ........ || ..... 35 ...... || .. 35 .. || ...1.00:1 ... |
| ........ 1.64 ........ || ..... 24 ...... || .. 24 .. || ...1.00:1 ... | ---> Slowest speed for true 1:1
| ........ 1.67 ........ || ..... 49 ...... || .. 42 .. || ...1.17:1 ... |
| ........ 1.74 ........ || ..... 67 ...... || .. 59 .. || ...1.14:1 ... |
| ........ 1.79 ........ || ..... 40 ...... || .. 34 .. || ...1.18:1 ... |
| ........ 1.83 ........ || ..... 61 ...... || .. 47 .. || ...1.30:1 ... | ---> now closer to 3:2 than 1:1
| ........ 1.86 ........ || ..... 51 ...... || .. 38 .. || ...1.34:1 ... |
| ........ 1.88 ........ || ..... 31 ...... || .. 24 .. || ...1.30:1 ... |
| ........ 1.92 ........ || ..... 35 ...... || .. 25 .. || ...1.40:1 ... |
| ........ 1.96 ........ || ..... 26 ...... || .. 18 .. || ...1.44:1 ... |
| ........ 2.07 ........ || ..... 23 ...... || .. 16 .. || ...1.44:1 ... | ---> these speeds are the closest tested for true 3:2
| ........ 2.11 ........ || ..... 39 ...... || .. 25 .. || ...1.56:1 ... |
| ........ 2.14 ........ || ..... 24 ...... || .. 14 .. || ...1.71:1 ... |
| ........ 2.17 ........ || ..... 43 ...... || .. 23 .. || ...1.87:1 ... | ---> now closer to 2:1 than 3:2

My question now: a 3:2 rotation means firing 3 specialshots at the time of 2 Autoshot's, isn't it?

e.g.: Auto, Steady, Arcane, Auto, Steady ...(restart, next time with Multi)
but don't you need a weaponspeed > 2,25 for that because of the threetimes triggered global cooldown?

SenorPez · 08/20/08, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Sk1nk

Got another question:

At Manito's signature, there is a threat, posting this speedlist:

My question now: a 3:2 rotation means firing 3 specialshots at the time of 2 Autoshot's, isn't it?

e.g.: Auto, Steady, Arcane, Auto, Steady ...(restart, next time with Multi)
but don't you need a weaponspeed > 2,25 for that because of the threetimes triggered global cooldown?

A 3:2 macro is typically three Steady Shots for every two Auto Shots.

Auto, Steady, Steady, Auto, Steady, Auto, Steady, Steady, Auto, Steady...

Ideal weapon speed for it is 2.8 if I remember correctly, but other weapons can be made to work by adjusting the amount of passive haste.

Barradin · 08/20/08, 11:11 AM

Aye,

3 steadies to 2 autos. The auto, steady, multi, auto steady, auto steady arcane, rotation is referred to as 1:1.5 (or 1:1.4 sometimes depending on your speed).

The macro that gets you the "3:2" rotation doesn't always produce that exact ratio. You get the 3:2 ratio when you have an attack speed of about 2.07 and accomplish it because you clip/delay some of your autoshots... giving you that extra bit of time to allow the GCD to reset. If you have a faster speed than 2.07 you eventually move to a 4:3 ratio (4 steadies to 3 autos), a 5:4 ratio, or alternate between them.

The only concern you really have with the 3:2 macro is not to go much slower than 2.07 or else you risk chaining multiple steady shots off in a row without an autoshot (=bad).

Wythel · 08/20/08, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sk1nk

/castsequence reset=x Steady Shot, !Auto Shot (x=weaponspeed)

...
...
...

the /castsequence is supossed to avoid this via the reset=x ... but as wowwiki says ...

The use of x in "reset=x" is if you do NOT press the macro button, after x seconds the macro resets.
So, when you use the macro, x can be 1 or 100, it doesn't matter.