Beast Mastery Bible - Page 46

Howitzer · 05/31/07, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by cipro

not sure if this has been explained before but howitzer are hourglass and tsunami talisman on the same 45s cooldown? and if so do you still think its viable to use them both? over lets say bloodlust brooch that you can activate along with beast within and rapid fire; or something predictable is what i'm getting at.

Yes, they're on the same internal cooldown and I do prefer using the Hourglass over the bloodlust brooch simply because its absolutely awesome when they both proc at the same time while bloodfury is up and TBW is up. Thats like 900+ AP + 10% damage the numbers become insane and you'll see 1500 kill commands and hit like you're MM spec. (plus its one less trinket to worry about. I already have to watch TBW and Bloodfury timers)

Kyt · 05/31/07, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kom

I've been BM for a long while now, simply for the damage output and being able to keep up or surpass casters in SC and TK. However I've never really looked into the theory of shot cycles and such, I've always felt that not much of it would apply to us oceanic players sporting our 600ms latency, so I just sit there with my steady / auto cycle with KC every so often. Couple of things I'd like help with though, as noobish as they seem, is that I've seen a lot about weapon speed for BM hunters, my reckoning always was that with a pure steady/auto rotation after each steady shot (1.5 second cast is affected by talents and/or quiver correct? :/) your auto shot always fires, so therefore the slower the weapon the more those auto shots in between will do, without affecting the speed of your rotation. Im guessing all this is completely wrong as faster weapons or weapons in the mid 2.0 speed seem to be what many BM hunters are seeking. Any help is much appreciated..

There's actually some very good numbers posted on steady spam being -higher- dps (esp w/ latency) over at the Hunting Hunters thread. You can find the #s that were discussed as far as AP and crit for BM here: Hunting Hunters...

Also, to answer your question, while steady shot's cast time can be sped up, our Global Cooldown is still 1.5s. You just can't spam steady any faster than that. Anyway, lots of good info in the thread I linked, and I believe the current trend for BM is to get your weapon as close to 2.0 as possible so you don't lose too much time on auto/steady spam, but still have time to work a KC in.

Rexpop · 05/31/07, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by The Iron Colonel

Yes; he'll still charge people who are in range (charge has a min range and max range, but the max range is less than 35 yards), but he won't charge you at 35 yards. His area is not a very large space though, so you may have trouble getting far enough away.

I've been charged at 41 yards (back when I had the extended range) talent. I've been charged at 35 yards and I've been charged at 7 yards. I've also seen people be charged when they have been standing closer than me and further away from me. It's totally random who he charges as long as they are outside his melee range.

As I said before, his charge doesn't hit that hard and as long as you get a heal, bandage or healthstone/potion afterwards you are usually in good enough shape to take another one. And to be honest if you don't have enough health to take a charge from Attumen then you will have trouble on some of the next fights (Maiden, Morose) that require a deeper health pool.

Glaurong · 05/31/07, 4:42 PM

I've seen all kinds of stuff with Attumen charge. Pretty sure it uses RSTS to pick a target and charges. If that target is too close the charge fails.

Kom · 05/31/07, 4:48 PM

Thanks for the info, believe my only problem was thinking that steady shot resets your auto shot timer, I guess I never found a weapon slow enough to suggest otherwise with my latency.

With my current range weapon I have 2.1 speed, so I guess that would be pretty much perfect for 600ms+GCD.

As for my DPS, it really hasn't been an issue so far with steady shot spam, however I may think about turning auto-shot timers on my mods back on and trying to some other rotations.

Harwin · 05/31/07, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rexpop

I've been charged at 41 yards (back when I had the extended range) talent. I've been charged at 35 yards and I've been charged at 7 yards. I've also seen people be charged when they have been standing closer than me and further away from me. It's totally random who he charges as long as they are outside his melee range.

As I said before, his charge doesn't hit that hard and as long as you get a heal, bandage or healthstone/potion afterwards you are usually in good enough shape to take another one. And to be honest if you don't have enough health to take a charge from Attumen then you will have trouble on some of the next fights (Maiden, Morose) that require a deeper health pool.

Well, assuming I'm the only hunter there (likely in a 10-man )I'm the only one who benefits by standing farther away. But by doing so I decrease DPS/TPS for everyone else (since they can't attack him while he's charging) and I force the healers to throw a heal on me.

If I can't outrange it, guess I'll just stick to meleeing him.(he's been on farm for months anyway, no huge reason to change strat if it adds risk) At least I'm BM.

The Iron Colonel · 05/31/07, 5:37 PM

Wow, I guess I'm just lucky. I haven't been charged by Attumen in almost 2 months (about the time I started standing max range). I guess I've just been lucky, though; it makes much more sense for him to use RSTS than some oddball system.

Anyway, as Rexpop said there's no reason not to stand at range and dps him - he doesn't hit hard enough to be a real concern.

[edit] correct have to haven't, such that this post makes a lick of sense.

Ladwenae · 05/31/07, 7:03 PM

The way I have done attumen was to have a pally standing furthest away from him which usually meant that he was getting charged and I just stood a bit to the side of the rest of the raid and could DPS all the time.
And as allready said, even if he do charge you its nothing to worry about.

cipro · 05/31/07, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Howitzer

Yes, they're on the same internal cooldown and I do prefer using the Hourglass over the bloodlust brooch simply because its absolutely awesome when they both proc at the same time while bloodfury is up and TBW is up. Thats like 900+ AP + 10% damage the numbers become insane and you'll see 1500 kill commands and hit like you're MM spec. (plus its one less trinket to worry about. I already have to watch TBW and Bloodfury timers)

wait they're on the same timers? or seperate 45s timers. You kinda through me off by saying 'its absolutely awesome when they both proc at the same time'

Howitzer · 05/31/07, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by cipro

wait they're on the same timers? or seperate 45s timers. You kinda through me off by saying 'its absolutely awesome when they both proc at the same time'

no they're on different timers but they both have a 45 sec internal cooldown. Having them proc both at the same time is pure luck.

Krypt · 05/31/07, 8:51 PM

I just recently picked up the Al'ar talon as BM spec with a pure auto/steady rotation, do you think with the mana usage and cycle interupts with arcane, that this Trinket would benifit a BM hunter by adding it into our rotation?

Howitzer · 05/31/07, 9:03 PM

Originally Posted by Krypt

I just recently picked up the Al'ar talon as BM spec with a pure auto/steady rotation, do you think with the mana usage and cycle interupts with arcane, that this Trinket would benifit a BM hunter by adding it into our rotation?

I read somewhere here on this forum that the al'ar talon trinket is the equivalent to 175 ranged attack power. You be the judge. =)

Elvandir · 05/31/07, 9:12 PM

The talon adds 40 damage to each damaging shot. (does this apply to Auto, as it is technically a "damaging shot"). So for 6 sec you do an extra 40 damage per steady (worst case).

40 damage / 0.3 (steady shot scaling factor) = 133.3 RAP
2.0 attack speed (assumed)
6 sec duration
Maximum of 4 steadys
160 extra damage
26.6 DPS increase from steady alone (best case)

More realiticly you are going to get 3 steadys per proc so
120 extra damage
20 DPS boost...

/disclaimer
Rough numbers only, and I'm low on coffee
/enddisclaimer

Lactose · 05/31/07, 9:45 PM

Steady Shot's scaling factor is not 0.3 - it's 0.2.

I'm pretty sure Auto Shot is affected by it. Basically, if you spam Arcane Shot at every cooldown, you'll gain 40 raw damage every shot, possibly excepting the Arcane Shot you use to trigger it - unless you've got a couple of points in Improved Arcane Shot?

As a BM, 5-6 shots per 6 seconds doesn't seem too unlikely, does it? Equaling +35ish raw DPS.

Raw = pre-mitigation and damage modifiers /crits

Howitzer · 05/31/07, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Steady Shot's scaling factor is not 0.3 - it's 0.2.

I'm pretty sure Auto Shot is affected by it. Basically, if you spam Arcane Shot at every cooldown, you'll gain 40 raw damage every shot, possibly excepting the Arcane Shot you use to trigger it - unless you've got a couple of points in Improved Arcane Shot?

As a BM, 5-6 shots per 6 seconds doesn't seem too unlikely, does it? Equaling +35ish raw DPS.

Raw = pre-mitigation and damage modifiers /crits

basically, I want this trinket.