Can someone confirm that in the 2.1.2 Patch the Scorpid Poisen has changed in the way that it can only applied from one Scorpid per Mob and any additional Skorpid will always miss with his Poisen ?

It happend to us yesterday in SSC with 2 Hunter and 2 Scorpids, whos Scorpid applied the Poisen First could hold it up and it ticked the amount pre Patch but the 2end Scorpid was never able to apply it.

They used same rank, only 1 rank of poison can be on mub at same time (basically, both hunters had 1 stack up, but only one got dps benefit) Works like this since, em? Release?

Try using rank5,4,3. They should stack seperatly.

Ah thx, yes bevore we had differnt Ranks.

I finally really understood what a major improvement a +weapon skill stat is. I apologize if it has been covered before, but I believe not everyone really understood it fully like me, cause the wowwiki explanation is kind of messy. I asked one or two times, if someone could clear it up and got no answer, so now I just write it down for other people like me

I now understand that the 8,6% needed is divided in 5% for the base miss, which was clear, and 0,6% for difference in defense rating +3% for difference in level, which is still based on the difference in defense.

The 0,6% come from 0,04% steps per point of defense, while the 3% come from 0,2% steps per point of defense. Now the most interesting part is, that the latter will be reduced to 0,1% steps per point in defense, if you get the defense difference down to 10 or less.
That makes the troll or dwarf racial a flat 2,2% hit and makes the kazzak pants unbelievable good with (only 8agi gems) in terms of damage:
141 RAP
2,265% crit
3,74% hit!!
Compare that to the T5 pants:
140 RAP
1,29% crit
1,1% hit

Obviously the T5 brings other nice stats, but if someone has a problem to reach the hit cap, there seems to be no better way to solve the problem with just one item.

Sorry, if that was clear for a long time to anybody but me

Edit: because I forgot to add 0,64% crit, which also come from the weapon skill. I really need that pants now...

I think you have that wrong, you're splitting, and combining the difference from defence for some reason?
Quote: "The 0,6% come from 0,04% steps per point of defense, while the 3% come from 0,2% steps per point of defense."


It should be :
5% base miss
3.60% from level (15 defence) difference.

So, it's : 3.6 / 15 = 0,24 hit chance per weapon "skill" point.
Meaning the Dwarf, and Troll racial give a flat : 5x0.24 = 1,2% hit chance, not 2.2%
(Been like that since back in the Molten Core days iirc.)

So, do you have any source to back up this part :
"Now the most interesting part is, that the latter will be reduced to 0,1% steps per point in defense, if you get the defense difference down to 10 or less."

Edit: the 0.04 you might be thinking if, is probably for melee skill only.

Ok, I should have written more explanations, but somehow I felt I was the only one who didnt know that, so I didnt want to blow up the post.

You are right, that 3,6% comes from the 15 point difference in defense, but as I said, you need to divide that in two parts. One part, the 0,6% are a separate effect of the +weapon skill and make a solid 0,04% per point, no matter what, thats why its split. I shouldnt have bound that to defense for better understanding, but technically it is.

The other 3% are for the level difference, which comes down to defense points, which becomes obvious by the fact that the one point in defense around the 10 mark makes a huge difference and lowers the total penalty from 0,2% per defense to 0,1% per defense.

So, as far as the sources are correct, troll and dwarf racial is a 2,2% hit and a surefooted troll or dwarf with the kazzak pants has gigantic 7,44% hit and needs only the ridiculous amount of 18,3 hit rating on other items to cap.
Sources:
http://www.tkasomething.com/hitrating.php
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Weapon_Skill

So, to clarify again, there are two effects on +weapon skill. The first part gives you a direct percentage to lower your miss by 0,04% per point in weapon skill.
The second part is, that weapon skill directly conters the opposing effect of the enemies defense skill, which has the aforementioned effect and offers a sweet spot, when you have +5 weapon skill against a lvl 73 mob.

Edit: for better wording

Well, yes, I have nothing else but wowiki on this part. But I would present it in a different way. The formula itself is not that +5 weapon skill is reducing the penalty, this is merely a sideeffect or a coincidence.

I would put it that way, that the enemies defense skill gives you +0.1% miss until 10 points of difference. Above that it changes to 0.2% per defense point, but not only for the remaining 5 points, but for all 15. So its crucial to stay below 11 points in difference.

Of course you could say, why would there be a turning point, why is it not plain 0,2% per point of defense from the beginning + the 0,04% mentioned above, because that also fits your result if you just have no +skill and your mob is 3 levels above you.

I have no further arguments besides wowwiki and the fact that the other hunter in my raid never misses and I have the logs to prove it. He has 54 hit rating, 3/3 surefooted, is a bow-using troll and has the kazzak pants.
That gives him 3,42% hit + 3% hit + 21 weapon skill.

Now if the wowwiki formula is right, that would give him 10,86% to hit, obviously above the cap.

If yours is right he would have a total of 6,42 + (21-15)*0.24 = 7,86%
That would give a miss in full raids sooner or later.

Troll racial (5 Weapon Skill)
+ Kazzak legs (16 Weapon Skill Rating -- 4 Weapon Skill)
= 9 Weapon Skill

Just a small note

Aaargh, really, I missed that the whole time...

Ok, then its difficult to prove it with the help of my logs, because the wowiki formula still tops the cap, but yours also gives 8,58%, so nothing to read out of this.

Actually, now that I reread it, does your formula really make sense?
I mean, first you said +1skill gives you a flat 0.24% hit, thats what I used to determine the 8,58% now.

But with the formula you posted above I get totally different results. Might also be because I am too dumb, so I am asking

54 Hit Rating, 3/3 Surefooted, 9 Weapon Skill

YourHit% = HitChance + (YourWeaponSkill - OpponentSkill)*0.24
YourHit% = 95 + (54/15.77) + 3 + (9 - 15)*0.24
YourHit% = 95 + 3.42 + 3 -1.44
YourHit% = 99.98

95 = base Hit Chance
54/15.77 = Hit Chance gained from Hit Rating
3 = Hit Chance gained from Surefooted
(9 - 15)*0.24 = Hit Chance based on Level difference.

I see why this can be slightly confusing, due to the way I set it up in the previous post.

Got it now. Ok, I was totally confused, because I thought you were giving a formula for the additional char sheet hit percentage

Well, as it stands its you and tkasomething against wowwiki.
But you are the only one out of these who can go out and test it

99,98% has a chance to produce a miss, but it never happened. Sadly I guess the data of some 10k shots is not enough to judge by that, cause it might still have been luck.

I have (some) evidence that there is either a % rate we cannot overcome, or your formula's are wrong.

I have a S.S on nightbane where i missed a shot with 136 hit rating. Now the reason why it's only some evidence, is because i have only my word that i wasn't afflicted by the -hit % debuff. I haven't recieved a miss since then also since i upgraded the violet eye signet and have 140 soemthing hit rating.

Following the conversations on the previous page, I have some questions about my new scorpid! First off, it's a blast playing with him and aiming to get those nice ticks. Now, I grabbed the highest level scorpid I could find, so to avoid the painful level up process but I never had a scorpid before, so I don't have scorpid poison 4. Is it that much better to go with 4 for the increased duration, or is rank 5 alright if you dont mind the stacks falling off?

The max hit on scorpid poison with WWS. Does that show the highest possible tick you managed to get off during the fight? I assume the tick I have in my report from last nights gruul, must have occured during the cube clicking because it hit ... well, insanely high.

My biggest question though, is about the combat messages in game. Is there a way to have only YOUR pets periodic damage show up? If I show creatures damage, I can see the poison tick but I see everyone elses crap too. Is there a mod, or UI set up, or option I am missing?

Thanks!

rank 4 poison is MUCH better. Dont forget to position him behind the mob as well as asking the tank to flip him if you cant position. Rank 5 poison gives you one chance to reapply, with 4% hit talent you still have about a 5% chance for the poison to miss so the stack resets. The whole point of scorpid poison being OP was buffing it up with AP trinkets, FI, BW etc and then keeping that buffed poison up for as long as possible.

Yeah that's what I thought- but was really hoping to avoid having to ditch this one, to get a smaller one just to learn rank 4 so I can retrain this one lol. So next question, -- that's still the only way for me to go back to fetch the rank 4 poison right?

You have 2 stable slots. stable scorpid, get new scorpid, learn rank 4, ditch new scorpid, take old scorpid back out,

We're using 3 BM Hunters together with a Feral Druid and a Enhancement Shaman in raids, all 3 Hunters using Cat pets. I searched through all 25 pages and I still have a question..

How much damage would Furious Howl used 3 times every 10 seconds add to that whole groups overall DPS? The pets would lose Claw but maybe the buff from the Wolf pets would more than make up for it if you consider that all 3 pets will buff eachother as well as the Shaman and the Druid. I fail at math and theorycrafting, thats why I'm asking.

I think the buffs from the wolves would add 76.5 DPS for us at best. Is this correct? I would need to figure out how much DPS the loss of Claw would hurt us as well though.

Pet Level 56 (25 TP). Party members within 15 yards receive an extra 45-57 damage to their next physical attack. Lasts 10 seconds

There seems to be no higher ranks.

Let's assume hunters stand at mininum bow range so that it affects hunters and druid and pets and shaman.

That's 8 targets per howl.

Now, the correct way of doing this is...

(Z(51 * X) + 51 * Y)

Now this is going to be confusing since i can't type what I would normally write.

Use this formula to find a # that corresponds with each target of Furious Howl.
X is the targets crit rate. Z is the Crit modifier. Y is 1-crit rate.

Example. A hunter with mortal shots and 30% crit rate.

(2.3(51 * .3) + 51 * .7)
(2.3(15.3) + 35.7)
70.89 is the average damage added to a hunter's attack.

10 second cooldown, 7.089 dps for that hunter.

As you can see, if you understand what I said, is that the damage added by Furious Howl scales based on the target's crit and crit modifier talents.

If you feel like getting the #'s from your hunters, i can tell you the approx. damage claw (assuming Bm hunter's here with GFTT) does.

Claw 54 - 76 damage. 65 average.

Modifiers, 25% happiness, 10% cat family, 20% unleashed fury, 1.5 second cooldown.

65 * 1.1 * 1.25 * 1.2 = 107.25 damage on average. Claw gives a BM hunter 71.5 dps assuming limitless focus. With GFTT and Bestial Discipline this isn't too outrageous, and the times when your pet can't claw would be made up for it's ability to proc FI as well as the 10% more white damage that a cat gains compared to a wolf.

Oh, thank you for taking the time to respond to this. I've been trying to figure this out for quite some time now.

Does this help at all? I'll check what their stats are fully raid buffed with BoK/LotP/GoA totem next raid if that would be better but from what I can understand from your reply, Cat pets is the way to go unless everyone has fantastic gear?

Hunter 1 44/14/3 -
Hunter 2 41/20/0 - 23.86% Crit Chance
Hunter 3 41/20/0 - 25.20% Crit Chance minus Elixir of Major Agility :/
Druid 0/56/5 - Wearing tank gear here unfortunately
Shaman 3/44/14 - 27.10% Crit Chance (+dual weilding Mongoose)

Gonna assume 20% crit chance for pets. Not gonna bother with mongoose, beyond my.. caring and possibly my skill.

(Z(51 * x)) + (51 * Y )
27.98 + 38.83 = 66.8114
27.2136 + 39.168 = 66.3816

61.2 * 3 = 183.6

316.793

64.821

I have 38.1614 dps assuming everyone gets the buff.

So it would add another ~40 Raid DPS under optimal circumstances, I think that answers my question. Thank you

Just wanted to mention that that was ~40 dps per wolf howl ignoring hunter 1 and the druid.