i.e. If I am running on a consistent 500ms latency, I would try to start steady shot 400-500ms before the next autoshot fires so that the server registers as charging the steady after the next autoshot.
Try that and see if you can get more out of the Wolfslayer - it takes quite a bit of getting used to vs a preset macro. A lot of macros I see don't deal with the additional latency (which is why I stay away from them) and have steady shot activating after auto which is suboptimal.
I also agree with this. Living in Australia gives me a 600-700ms but I've found that an awesome mod for this is Quartz, its just like a normal cast bar but it shows the exact latency in red at the end of the cast, giving you almost perfect timing on when to cast the next shot. Though recently I've found that the macro previously linked in this thread
Its quite helpful in this regard. I've found that this, granted is more for enabling kill command, but the way it is typed means that auto continues to fire in the back ground. Thus taking your 500ms latency, and turning into the kill command activation.
I think the point at which haste stops having a useful effect is when your autoshot attack speed gets down to GCD + Lag.
...
I'm not sure about this. My experience in time of heavy lag was that GCD starts when you press the button. So the GDC seems to be calculated local and is independent to latency.
With this in mind I would say that it's possible have a auto attack-speed faster than GDC. But I'm not really sure about the mechanics and data-transfer client <-> server. It's just a theory based on my ingame-lag-experience.
I know its hard but without too much in-depth gear analysis, anyone who has the trinkets / done the math able to give me there opinion on a ranking of the better raid trinkets?
Assuming around 2k unbuffed AP / 28% crit as a BM, how would you rate the Bloodlust Brooch, Hourglass, Dragonspine trophy, Tsunami talisman, edge of madness (name could be wrong?) al'ar trinket and the deathsworn one. The reason I ask is because while surfing the armories of hunters with loftier gear, i've seen over the last month or two certain people go from hourglass, to al'ar, to deathsworn (im reffering to the steadyshot trinket) then back to the hourglass. Could just be due to different encounters / farming gear or w/e.
Hi guys,
i have a question, since i can't post in the UI section as i'm a newbie here, i will post it here since it's not off topic.
I have been trying the scorpid tricks but i can't see the damage of the ticks only in my combat log.
I have been trying SCTD it doesn't show the damages of the poison at the moment i'm using Mikk Scrolling Battle Text which is for me far better than SCTD but again impossible to see the damage done by the poison.
I would like to know if there is a way to see it in any "SCTD-type" addon and if you can is there any special modification or configuration to do.
For the people who has a scorpid how do you check the damage of one tick of poison.
I know its hard but without too much in-depth gear analysis, anyone who has the trinkets / done the math able to give me there opinion on a ranking of the better raid trinkets?
Assuming around 2k unbuffed AP / 28% crit as a BM, how would you rate the Bloodlust Brooch, Hourglass, Dragonspine trophy, Tsunami talisman, edge of madness (name could be wrong?) al'ar trinket and the deathsworn one. The reason I ask is because while surfing the armories of hunters with loftier gear, i've seen over the last month or two certain people go from hourglass, to al'ar, to deathsworn (im reffering to the steadyshot trinket) then back to the hourglass. Could just be due to different encounters / farming gear or w/e.
First, I must scold you for not searching for the answers. These have been discussed in this thread already.
Be that as it may, it's very easy to determine the average RAP from the trinkets. I don't really feel like deriving some big equation for the Dragonspine trophy, because haste gives me headaches (you have to know too many extraneous variables to tell how much damage it will add). Also, Hourglass and Tsunami are listed at 10% proc rate and have a 45 second internal cooldown. Talon of Al'ar was discussed in it's own thread somewhere else; long story short, it's bad - if you can get it for almost no dkp, take it in case it's improved later, but don't worry about getting it.
If you like haste, Dragonspine is killer (but I'm still not calculating the benefit, that's a headache). I highly recommend you search for more in depth discussions on these trinkets, though.
[edit] Keep in mind I didn't add in the static +hit or +crit that some of the trinkets have, which will have an effect. If you need more precise numbers, use Cheeky's Spreadsheet (I'm not sure if he's added in the time averaged RAP from procs yet, but if not you can manually add them in with the manual adjustment area).
[edit 2] Accounted for steady shot in my Hourglass and Tsunami calculations.
Last edited by The Iron Colonel : 07/06/07 at 12:03 PM.
Reason: Added a comment
I know its hard but without too much in-depth gear analysis, anyone who has the trinkets / done the math able to give me there opinion on a ranking of the better raid trinkets?
Assuming around 2k unbuffed AP / 28% crit as a BM, how would you rate the Bloodlust Brooch, Hourglass, Dragonspine trophy, Tsunami talisman, edge of madness (name could be wrong?) al'ar trinket and the deathsworn one. The reason I ask is because while surfing the armories of hunters with loftier gear, i've seen over the last month or two certain people go from hourglass, to al'ar, to deathsworn (im reffering to the steadyshot trinket) then back to the hourglass. Could just be due to different encounters / farming gear or w/e.
Two of the following trinkets are what I'll be looking to use as my endgame ones: Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness, Tsunai Talisman, Madness of the Betrayer. The only reason I'd swap between them would be to potential missing hit due to resist gear or lack of optimal drops in other slots. The two I'd lean towards full time use would be both talismans.
I could see someone swapping in hourglass over the ashtongue trinket for pvp and the like if they had one of the two other trinkets I mentioned in their other slot.
Thanks to the 2 posts relating to my question. I definitely like my dragonspine and feel it's haste is very beneficial but let's not go into that. The al'ar trinket i had seen the talk about, basically it only procs off specials (not auto's) and i agree it'd be fairly worthless. For me i've always seemed to undervalue hourglass compared to other hunters. I used my bladefist over it when i was an mm hunter pushing 2.5k RAP with only 21% crit. I simply didn't feel it procced the once per minute and a half that was required of it to be equal to the bladefist (and made better by the higher crit rating). Since going BM and having a faster attack speed + 30% crit unbuffed i felt it was the better option, but however still dont believe its the OP trinket others do. With our lowered attack speed (compared to say a rogue) lesser haste ability and around half the crit of a rogue or whatever with the correct build.
I'm not sure about this. My experience in time of heavy lag was that GCD starts when you press the button. So the GDC seems to be calculated local and is independent to latency.
With this in mind I would say that it's possible have a auto attack-speed faster than GDC. But I'm not really sure about the mechanics and data-transfer client <-> server. It's just a theory based on my ingame-lag-experience.
I should've explained what I meant by lag. I mean the time between when the GCD ends and when your next steady shot begins. To put it another way, imagine you didn't have autoshot and you were just spamming steady shot as fast as you can. How often is steady shot firing? Ideally one every 1.5 seconds, but in the real world its probably a bit slower. The difference between 1.5 seconds and the actual time between steadies being spammed is the lag I was talking about.
I agree with you that its perfectly possible to have an autoshot speed faster than the GCD. My point was that in that situation, the best thing to do would be to continue using 1 special per auto, which would slow your autoshots down to whatever speed you could spam steady at. This would imply that there is an auto-attack speed greater than 1.5 below which any additional haste doesn't increase DPS.
Hi guys,
i have a question, since i can't post in the UI section as i'm a newbie here, i will post it here since it's not off topic.
I have been trying the scorpid tricks but i can't see the damage of the ticks only in my combat log.
I have been trying SCTD it doesn't show the damages of the poison at the moment i'm using Mikk Scrolling Battle Text which is for me far better than SCTD but again impossible to see the damage done by the poison.
I would like to know if there is a way to see it in any "SCTD-type" addon and if you can is there any special modification or configuration to do.
For the people who has a scorpid how do you check the damage of one tick of poison.
Thanks to the 2 posts relating to my question. I definitely like my dragonspine and feel it's haste is very beneficial but let's not go into that. The al'ar trinket i had seen the talk about, basically it only procs off specials (not auto's) and i agree it'd be fairly worthless. For me i've always seemed to undervalue hourglass compared to other hunters. I used my bladefist over it when i was an mm hunter pushing 2.5k RAP with only 21% crit. I simply didn't feel it procced the once per minute and a half that was required of it to be equal to the bladefist (and made better by the higher crit rating). Since going BM and having a faster attack speed + 30% crit unbuffed i felt it was the better option, but however still dont believe its the OP trinket others do. With our lowered attack speed (compared to say a rogue) lesser haste ability and around half the crit of a rogue or whatever with the correct build.
You can figure out average time between hourglass (and tsunami, actually, since they have the same cooldown length and proc rate from crits). It's simply the cooldown time plus the time between procs. Dimensional analysis shows that ( shots / second ) * ( crits / shot ) * ( procs / crit ) gives ( procs / second ). You can take the inverse of that to get seconds / proc, or the time between procs. So the internal cooldown of 45s plus 37.5s (in your case - doing auto/steady at 2.1 speed w/ 28% to crit) is 82.5. The uptime is then 12% for an average RAP of 36 on Hourglass and 41 on Tsunami. I should point out this differs from my last post (in which I didn't account for steady shot). I'll edit the last post to include steady; either way, neither of those trinkets can match the average RAP of bloodlust brooch or ashtongue talisman.
Tsunami is obviously going to be better than Hourglass (given that it has more static stats and better average RAP from the proc), but I'd probably pass the Tsunami talisman to a rogue or dual wielder who would benefit from the hit more than I would. It's not a bad trinket, but I think it's only marginally superior to Hourglass for a Hunter whereas it would be a large upgrade for a somewhat more hit dependant class.
[EDIT] To address madness of the betrayer, based on the wowhead listed PPM of 1.5, first figure out uptime. I know it's been discussed before, but I honestly forget if PPM is calculated based on base weapon speed or hasted weapon speed. I believe it's base, but if someone corrects me I'll update this. 1.5 PPM at 2.9 weapon speed is a 100*1.5/60/2.9=7.25% proc chance. An auto/steady rotation fires a shot every 1.05 seconds, on average, with that speed weapon (2.9/(1.15*1.20*2)=1.05). The uptime calculation is then 1-(1-0.0725)^floor(10/1.05)=49% uptime.
Now, we have to figure out how much RAP the armor ignoring is worth. This obviously depends on how much mitigation the target has to begin with; due to the shape of the armor/mitigation curve, high armor targets will be less effected than low armor targets. Since I can't speak specifically about a target, I'll just give you an equation and you can figure it out based on what % mitigation you think the target has. The armor formula is %Reduction = (Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * 73)) * 100 for a boss (level 73). I'm going to make the assumption that all damage you do is mitigated at the same rate, such that the effect of the trinket is uniform for all attacks and therefore all damage you personally deal (not strictly true at all, but for simplicity's sake I'm assuming that). Ok, a loss of 300 armor makes the mitigation equation simplify down to r =((Armor-300)/(Armor+11660))*100. If a target mitigates n%, you're doing (1-n)*BaseDamage=TotalDamage. A loss of r mitigation (according the the previous equation) equates to (1-(n-(n-r)))*BaseDamage. Subtracting one from the other, the increase in TotalDamage is r*BaseDamage. We can calculate BaseDamage as TotalDamage/(1-n) and do the algebra such that the increase in damage is (n-r)*TotalDamage/(1-n), so with the trinket buff active you're doing TotalDamage*(1+(n-r)/(1-n)). Ok, to get your new damage with the buff up, it's TotalDamage*(1-r)/(1-n), so just multiply the dps you do without the buff by (1-r)/(1-n) where n is the base mitigation and r is the reduction in mitigation provided by a loss of 300 armor.
Ugh, messy. Lemme give you a quick example. Lets say the target has 20% base mitigation. That's 2990 base armor. A reduction of 300 armor gives 2690 armor, which is 18.36% mitigation. That gives you a damage coefficient of (1-0.1836/(1-0.20)=1.02, which is about a 2% increase in total dps. If you're doing 750 personal dps (not including pet, remember) that's an increase of 15.375 dps while the buff is active. Given that the buff has a 49% uptime, that's a time-averaged 7.53375 dps which equates to 105.4725 AP plus the static RAP of 84. Wow. Try it for a target with less mitigation. 10% base mitigation gives ~1329 armor, and a loss of 300 armor gives 7.92% mitigation. That's a coefficient of 1.023, which would be a time-averaged dps increase of 8.48 and RAP of 118.72. This seems like a pretty darn good trinket to me.
[edit 2] Realized I calculated RAP from DPS incorrectly (divided by 14 instead of multiply). Fixed now.
Last edited by The Iron Colonel : 07/06/07 at 12:41 PM.
You can figure out average time between hourglass (and tsunami, actually, since they have the same cooldown length and proc rate from crits). It's simply the cooldown time plus the time between procs. Dimensional analysis shows that ( shots / second ) * ( crits / shot ) * ( procs / crit ) gives ( procs / second ). You can take the inverse of that to get seconds / proc, or the time between procs. So the internal cooldown of 45s plus 37.5s (in your case - doing auto/steady at 2.1 speed w/ 28% to crit) is 82.5. The uptime is then 12% for an average RAP of 36 on Hourglass and 41 on Tsunami. I should point out this differs from my last post (in which I didn't account for steady shot). I'll edit the last post to include steady; either way, neither of those trinkets can match the average RAP of bloodlust brooch or ashtongue talisman.
Tsunami is obviously going to be better than Hourglass (given that it has more static stats and better average RAP from the proc), but I'd probably pass the Tsunami talisman to a rogue or dual wielder who would benefit from the hit more than I would. It's not a bad trinket, but I think it's only marginally superior to Hourglass for a Hunter whereas it would be a large upgrade for a somewhat more hit dependant class.
Yeah but how much does the GCD on bloodlust matter? I've been hesitant to swap to it because hourglass of the unraveller just works for me(although it also works for me at non-optimal times). For the brooch I have to forego a steadyshot to use it. In 2 minutes a 1.5s gcd is 1.1% of my damage. 45 RAP from using it would seem to be < 1.1% of a damage boost, making it actively bad to use.
No, because the haste will be more effective with a 2.9 or 3.0 speed then it would be with a 3.2. I have 3 haste items and don't have a issue when using a 3.0 speed, when it comes to delaying shots.
Djinn, please stop getting loot. Its getting to be very aggrevating keeping up with your Armory profile especially with my horrible luck on drops. Back on topic, I am running with 2 haste items and my POS Kara bow and have no issues with clipping yet, either. I imagine once I get a 3.0 speed bow it'll be easier to squeeze in 1 more haste item like the ring.
Yes. I find it much more accurate than spamming a macro.
I find that a little ironic, since the purpose of a macro is to minimize any downtime between shots due to anything but lag But then again, most macros flip out if you start throwing in other shits and forget to reset it. So I definitly understand this statement.
As for BM...I like BM solo and PVP. A lot. A very lot. However, my hunter being an alt, is regulated to being leader of our C Team, which is full of people with "abnormal" schedules, and a few who don't seem to want to take raiding seriously...so he isn't raiding a lot. I am Survival spec (20/41) and I like it a lot. I am sure that with BM I could do higher sustained DPS without burning mana pots, however, I don't want to test the healers with healing my pet while they have to focus on a tertiary guild tank, AND people who for the most part have never done any raiding before Kara. Am I just hyping the pet factor too much, especially with the new Mend Pet mechanics and Avoidance?
I find that a little ironic, since the purpose of a macro is to minimize any downtime between shots due to anything but lag But then again, most macros flip out if you start throwing in other shits and forget to reset it. So I definitly understand this statement.
As for BM...I like BM solo and PVP. A lot. A very lot. However, my hunter being an alt, is regulated to being leader of our C Team, which is full of people with "abnormal" schedules, and a few who don't seem to want to take raiding seriously...so he isn't raiding a lot. I am Survival spec (20/41) and I like it a lot. I am sure that with BM I could do higher sustained DPS without burning mana pots, however, I don't want to test the healers with healing my pet while they have to focus on a tertiary guild tank, AND people who for the most part have never done any raiding before Kara. Am I just hyping the pet factor too much, especially with the new Mend Pet mechanics and Avoidance?
The pet is an added bonus to your damage as BM but isn't the large contributor to your DPS. You can keep up with or surpass the damage dealt by a full survival hunter as a BM spec without even using your pet. Serpent's swiftness = win. Serpent's Swiftness + Haste items = super win!!!
The pet is an added bonus to your damage as BM but isn't the large contributor to your DPS. I can keep up with or surpass the damage dealt by a full survival hunter as a BM spec without even using my pet. Serpent's swiftness = win.
Right now, I am 4th in DPS, beaten by a rogue and 2 mages. Below me is whatever DPS we can fill in which is usually somebody terrible, and the tanks.
I don't like being so low. I would say that I have gear equal to or better than these guys. I use a pretty standard "spam this shit" macro for Survival (arcane auto steady auto steady and then weaved in multis/stings as needed)
/edit; That's interesting that you say its' not the biggest, a lot of the charts I see show the pet being close to the rest of shots used in terms of added dps!
Right now, I am 4th in DPS, beaten by a rogue and 2 mages. Below me is whatever DPS we can fill in which is usually somebody terrible, and the tanks.
I don't like being so low. I would say that I have gear equal to or better than these guys. I use a pretty standard "spam this shit" macro for Survival (arcane auto steady auto steady and then weaved in multis/stings as needed)
/edit; That's interesting that you say its' not the biggest, a lot of the charts I see show the pet being close to the rest of shots used in terms of added dps!
In this WWS report you'll see the several 1st attempts my guild had at Archimonde. In these Archimonde attempts there is me, (a BM hunter), and a Survival Hunter. Both equally geared, both using the same bow. We didn't use our pets all night because we were retarded and believed that a pet death would cause a 4,000 dmg DOT to the raid. (We realized this morning it was coincidence that a pet died right when another player died which led to that assumption that it was bugged last night).
As you can see, a BM pet is going to add roughly 300-400 dps which is excellent BUT STILL less than half of what you yourself are putting out. YES, the pet is absolutely important and crucial to keep up, but by no means does it completely define your usefulness as BM.
07/06/07, 3:25 AM
But then again, most macros flip out if you start throwing in other shits and forget to reset it. So I definitly understand this statement.
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