Beast Mastery Bible - Page 91

Breakerone · 06/29/07, 4:25 AM

I just got my second T5 piece yesterday, but had no time to try it out. The other hunter (MM) claimed that he got his second last week and tried if afterwards in a duel and it procced like 2 times in a minute.
I thought I read about a 45% chance. Can someone fill me in, before I get my own tries tonight?

Kash · 06/29/07, 5:03 AM

read something about 10-15% chance but I could give you a WWS link to a Voidreaver Kill, there you can see how much it healed my pet (though it isn't an intelligent heal)

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...045-12524&a=12

Breakerone · 06/29/07, 6:11 AM

Originally Posted by Kash

read something about 10-15% chance but I could give you a WWS link to a Voidreaver Kill, there you can see how much it healed my pet (though it isn't an intelligent heal)

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...045-12524&a=12

Hm, sad. If I read your WWS correct, your pet healed itself with about every 6th hit, which would come to the percentage you mentioned and yours is a cat or ravager, so you even have a very large advantage in number of hits compared to my wind serpent. Might really be the final reason now to let it go

Really sad, I had my hopes up for 45% as mention on thott, but this "value" thing was unclear from the beginning...

Krypt · 06/29/07, 6:30 AM

For me the Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness is getting ever closer. Equip: Your Steady Shot has a 15% chance to grant you 275 attack power for 8 seconds. At first glace this looks quite amazing, however I'm beginning to wonder how it compares to the Tsunami Talisman, or even Dragonspine.

The thing I'm most worried about is a long hidden CD. Which wouldnt suprise me looking at the imba nature of most other classes trinkets. Any one else have thoughts on this?

Maa · 06/29/07, 7:11 AM

Originally Posted by Krypt

For me the Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness is getting ever closer. Equip: Your Steady Shot has a 15% chance to grant you 275 attack power for 8 seconds. At first glace this looks quite amazing, however I'm beginning to wonder how it compares to the Tsunami Talisman, or even Dragonspine.

The thing I'm most worried about is a long hidden CD. Which wouldnt suprise me looking at the imba nature of most other classes trinkets. Any one else have thoughts on this?

This have been already discuised here.

And I can tell you it doesn't have hidden CD, it can proc while the proc is still active.

Lactose · 06/29/07, 7:20 AM

This is a link to where discussion regarding the Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness starts. Click me.

Krypt · 06/29/07, 7:37 AM

Thanks Lactose, ou saved me some time there. Been following this thread since start must havve missed them pages.

Its nice to now it has no hidden GCD, i assume it stacks? A flat 220 AP boost is extremly nice, im still embarrasingly using Drakefang, through lack of +hit gear ithats dropped - even thinking about resocketing some + hit/agi. Maa, on your armoury your using bloodlust still, I assume this is for more control over scorpid stacks. (was impressed with your uptime on Illidan, with a non to shabby 663)

This trinket looks nice for me with Barrel-Blade, and its extremly fast speeds with BM.

Lactose · 06/29/07, 7:46 AM

Originally Posted by Krypt

Its nice to now it has no hidden GCD, i assume it stacks?

A proc while the proc is active simply refreshes the timer.

Trohck · 06/29/07, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Breakerone

Hm, sad. If I read your WWS correct, your pet healed itself with about every 6th hit, which would come to the percentage you mentioned and yours is a cat or ravager, so you even have a very large advantage in number of hits compared to my wind serpent.

Can anyone confirm that 2pc Tier 5 procs off special attacks? Is Lightning Breath an exception? When I first got it I tested it for a while and never had a proc off of LB.

With that said, 15% proc rate is consistent with my experience, though this is a "gut feel" and comparing multiple WWS's will yield better results.

Note that a BM pet is going to attack at 0.89s speed most of the time, so even at a 15% proc rate with just normal attacks:

178 to 192 = 185 average hp healed per proc
1/.89 = 1.12 attacks per second.
Proc rate * health per proc * attacks per second = .15 * 1.12 * 185

2pc Tier 5 = 31 hp per second for your pet

Pretty awesome! On Naj'entus this averages out to ~1800hp healed between tidal shields. As a hunter in my guild said: "Tier 5 was made for BM hunters". The 4-piece bonus is also awesome for us.

Rexpop · 06/29/07, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

You are not clipping, you are clobbering auto shots completely. This means you are casting steady shot during the 0.5s cast of auto shot, and getting 2 steadies between some of your autoshots. This means you are doing less damage generally, and using more mana to deal it. A lose-lose situation.

While clipping could also be the cause, its also possible to end up with more Steady Shots fired than Auto Shots if the mob you are fighting dies after the Steady Shot hits, but before the Auto fires/hits. If this happens enough then the number of Steady Shots fired will slowly creep ahead of the auto shots, especially if the macro you are using uses Steady Shot to trigger the Auto Shot.

The Iron Colonel · 06/29/07, 3:33 PM

While that's true, you'd have to consistently have that phenomenon happen to establish a margin of 7 steadies more than autos. Lurker has adds, but not so many that you should be seeing that kind of margin (especially with a 2.1 attack speed - there's simply not that much deadtime in which you'd fire a steady but not an auto before a death - 0.6s window minus latency and reaction time before the steady fires).

Glaurong · 06/29/07, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

It should be trivial to write a parser that will give you statistics about shot clobbering and clipping. The results will be a bit off because of flight time but it should let you know if you have any major problems.

If you guys want to attach some combat logs I can take a stab at it.

Welshy was kind enough to send me a combat log and I put together a quick parser. His log was about 15MB but I'm able to parse it in just a couple seconds. It should provide some insight into how you are managing your rotations, if you are clobbering/clipping shots and outputs some other misc stats.

This is the output from his log:

Auto shots: 1412
Average auto shot: 715.7854107648725
Auto shot damage: 1010689
Steady shots: 1258
Average steady shot: 730.2321144674086
Steady shot damage: 918632
Multi shots: 45
Average multi shot: 911.1333333333333
Multi shot damage: 41001
Arcane shots: 126
Average arcane shot: 813.5396825396825
Arcane shot damage: 102506
Average time between auto shots: 2181 ms
Minimum time between auto shots: 1297 ms
Maximum time between auto shots: 3422 ms
Times exceeded 3500 ms between auto shots: 258
Times targets switched: 99
Back to back auto shots: 236
Back to back steady shots: 82

To run it (you must have java installed):

1) Extract LogParser.jar from the zip I'm attaching
2) Drop LogParser.jar in your log directory or wherever you have a WoWCombatLog.txt
3) Double click LogParser.jar

Edit: A few notes
For the autoshot calculations:
-I keep track of your target, if your target changes between two auto shots I disregard that time difference.

-I set a maximum delay between auto shots to 3.5 seconds. Anything greater than this delay is discarded since that falls outside the range of weapon speeds and a back to back steady. If you try really hard you could have auto shots further than 3.5 seconds apart in a rotation but you would have to be screwing it up pretty bad

Edit 2: I updated the zip to include the source if anyone wants to play with it

Edit 3: Couple of fixes so it doesn't break on Dr. Boom or misses

Edit 4: Displays results in a simple window so you don't have to run it from the command line

The Iron Colonel · 06/29/07, 4:53 PM

First of all, thanks Glau for putting together a parser in timely fashion. Much appreciated!

Originally Posted by Glaurong

Auto shots: 1412
Average auto shot: 715.7854107648725
Auto shot damage: 1010689
Steady shots: 1258
Average steady shot: 730.2321144674086
Steady shot damage: 918632
Multi shots: 45
Average multi shot: 911.1333333333333
Multi shot damage: 41001
Arcane shots: 126
Average arcane shot: 813.5396825396825
Arcane shot damage: 102506
Average time between auto shots: 2181 ms
Minimum time between auto shots: 1297 ms
Maximum time between auto shots: 3422 ms
Times exceeded 3500 ms between auto shots: 258
Times targets switched: 99
Back to back auto shots: 236
Back to back steady shots: 82

Note: this is the same log as http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=p4bh6vrkbyoxa&a=11 , in case anyone wants to cross reference. Some of the numbers disagree (number of shots and average shot damage appear to be different), but I'm sure Glau can shed more light on that.

Emphasis mine. I'll start by just asking some questions (perhaps of interest only to me, it's my log) that might be confusing to others. How am I getting 258 autoshots with time between autoshots if my max time is 3.4 seconds? Also, if I have 82 back to back steady shots, how is my max time between autos 3.4 seconds (should be at least 2 times my attack speed of 2.1). edit: answered my question. You may want to reconsider ignoring shots with more than 3.5 seconds in between - this might shed light on how many shots get dropped. I'm unclear on the methodology and what exactly the numbers mean, so I'm asking. Undoubtedly I'm dropping and clipping shots, but I want to figure out exactly what the report is telling me so I can improve.

Again, thanks for another tool, Glau. Hopefully we can all make good use of this.

[edit 2]: bah, what am I thinking, it's 2*steady cast, which is 2*1.08=2.16. Some days math is hard, Barbie. However, it occurs to me that the log I sent you was from Void reaver and TK trash, in which I frequently have to move while keeping the same target due to either LoS or Deadzoned (in those stupidly small hallways) or to avoid Arcane Orbs. I have some suggestions as to ways to improve the parser, but I'll PM you about those.

Glaurong · 06/29/07, 5:16 PM

I had to pick an arbitrary number to cut out time spent moving or doing anything besides standing still and banging out your rotation. 3.5 seconds might not be the right number for this but it's easily changeable.

The 258 shots that exceed the 3.5 second max I set is just a number I have in there for a sanity check. Shots will end up here when you are moving, probably if you spend time mending your pet or if you are badly clobbering your autos. If this number is too high the maximum time between shots you want the parser to consider needs to be raised.

The maximum time listed is the maximum time between shots that falls under the absolute maximum. In practice this number isn't really useful because there is undoubtedly a time when you move from one target to another with the same name and take a few seconds (or a similar event). From the parser's point of view they are just auto shots that are really far apart.

I only include auto shots that are closer than the absolute cutoff of 3.5 second in the back to back auto shot number.

As far as the discrepancy between your log an WWS I can't explain that. I take any line that starts with one of the following strings:

"Your Auto"
"Your Steady"
"Your Multi"
"Your Arcane"

They get included in the shot count, overall damage, and average damage stats.

The Iron Colonel · 06/29/07, 5:21 PM

Thanks for the answers - I admit I had an initial moment of panic when I was looking at the numbers and saying "holy hell, I'm terrible at my rotation and didn't even know it," so my initial post probably makes less sense than it could (or should). However, when you put it in context the results make more sense. As for WWS, I'm unsure why it's different, but I'm not going to worry about it. I'm using your tool for timing information, which it seems to do very well at.