LuringShadow

Abey, first off your spec looks pretty good. The only change I might make is moving one point from TotH to fill out EW. That is generally recommended until you hit ~50% crit raid buffed.

A couple quick notes on your gear... As SV you will only need 95 hit rating to be capped. If you can, try to snag the [Bristleblitz Striker] since it appears you are downing Archi. The 3.0 speed is nice, and you have the haste to support it. As SV it should probably go to you first, as the xbow is better for BM hunters. Also, if the T6 aren't an option for you (low on DKP or whatever) pick up the [Shoulders of the Hidden Predator] if they drop.

All in all, looks pretty good though. That rotation should be fine 'till you get your 4 piece.


P.S I'm very jelous of your trinkets.

Edited for Grammar. I didn't realize it was that strict here.

 

Abey

Thank you for your great recommendations. My guild only raids 2x/week and we are pushing to complete BT so I don't expect to see the Archi bow anytime soon. We keep a VERY lean roster and have only 2 raiding hunters. We don't use DKP but a system known as Suicide Kings (which works very well for small guilds).

1) I will make the change to ToTH and EW, as you suggest when next I log in.
2) I have no better items to place in the slots where I have hit rating (hence why I'm over the cap)
3) As we are pushing BT content, I hope to get the shoulder item you mention above (I'm ahead of the other hunter on the SK list *wink*)
4) I have 2pcs T6 and 2pcs T5 which I sometimes swap out depending on the fight (needing to heal the pet etc.,). How I am geared now in the Armory is pretty much my default raid setup.

Yes, I was fortunate enough to win the DST back when we DID have DKP.

Once again, thank you for your suggestions and refinements. This is just a great thread w/ awesome, knowledgeable ppl.

Abey.

 

kennethhead

Hi. long time reader.
I recently respecced survival and i basicly know nothing about the shot rotations or mechanics of this spec. if someone could give me a few pointers or tips that would be a huge thanks. i've been BM for a year now and raiding BT as this specis new to me.

armory link The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Samonu

Im very didcated to Survival, number 1 on agility US wide by a healthy margin.

Gankbang.com :: Armory

Ive theorycrafted long and hard about my spec. I think that Im doing fine, but in terms of personal dps I see myself as lacking, and of course I should be, but if I have a chance to do more dmg while still supplying my utility buff, then I might as well do it.

The World of Warcraft Armory

So my question to the EJ guru's are what do I have to upgrade to? What is the best choice for spec?

My thoughts are as such:

Helm - T6
Shoulders - T6
Back - Thalassian Wildercloak
Chest - T6
Bracer - T6
Pants - Bow-stitched Leggings

Trinkets are a bit of an issue, Im very happy with my Tsunami Talisman, but what to pair with it is difficult to decide.
Originally I used the hourglass, which turned into me using the DM Card Wrath, nether of which IMO helped my dps or EW up time.

DST - more personal dps, Probably similar to 5/5 Imp Hawk.
Madness of the Betrayer - This was my thought initially just due to itemization.
Alchemist Stone - Ive always considered it, but not till now have I seriously wanted it.

With 2/2 Combat Experience and 5/5 Lightning Reflexes Every point of Agility is crucial, its why I dropped Mining for Enchanting (+8 agi to rings) and why I ditched the CE Helm kit for the Old World Libram of Voracity (+8 agi to helm).

And seeing how engineering only gives me rp toys and a helm that I would never want, this idea bumps higher in my mind everyday.

As to spec, I see a lot of T6 go 7/20/34 Imp Hawk + 2% dmg But at the cost of 2% agi which at my stat numbers is around 30agi. I dont have T6 though, So Ive always been 0/27/34 with 1/3TotH 3/3EW, then once my agility was high enough and crit waranted 2/3TotH 2/3EW. And recently Ive been playing around with my current spec of 0/29/32 again 2%dmg while maintaining 2/2 CE and 3/3 Barrage. So overall Much more dmg, around 100-200 More in raids. But wow do I run out of mana, Hence my current equipping of Mark of Conquest. In a normal 6M dmg fight It restores identical to 2/3 TotH.

So Ive blind sided you with thoughts and the past, what are your thoughts on all of this?

 

Faerdael

Ok, you are not going to like my reply I think, but honestly, I think what you are doing is sacrificing too much for the sake of your agility. Its almost like you are asking what you can do to increase your DPS while deliberately gimping your DPS. You have 1083 unbuffed agility (yes, impressive) and yet only 2036ap. This is frankly a very bad ratio.
Don't forget that your personal DPS is a portion of your raid's DPS.

Some choices you should REALLY scrutinize are the glyph on your helm, Nethercleft leg enchant, the dual wielding unbral shivs, and the Mark of Conquest (this really shouldnt be a raid consideration, more of a solo trinket). Also the barrel blade is not very good for being survival specced (although the speed would be good for the 7/x/x spec - but you don't have 4T6 or a DST); the badge bow would be a marked improvement. Also a helm with a meta socket for a relentless would be nice. S3/S4 helm is very good for raiding. Crusade is a far better darkmoon card than wrath, Bloodlust Brooch is better than wrath. Also being a draenei survival hunter, you are 14 points over the hit cap, which is more potentially lost DPS.

Combat Experience for survival is rarely considered a positive choice - its just not a very good talent, also not having Rapid Killing with 27-29 points in MM is odd. I would think that a higher end damage bow and a 20/41 spec would work better for you. Really though, I think your gearing choices are a bigger problem than the 0/27/34.

I would recommend that you delve into the spreadsheet and then add your personal DPS plus the result from Expose Weakness Calculator
to make some choices here. Agility is VERY important when specced survival, but must be weighed with all things.

 

Filena

Hey all,

I just came back to wow after some time off and have been looking at some of the new gear now available. In the near future I plan to upgrade my Sunfury to the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes.

My question is:

1. The rotation with this crossbow from what I understand is very tight to be doing a 1:1.5 rotation which I have been using for some time now. What rotation is recommended when using this weapon? ***Please note that I am SV specced and do not have any additional haste items other then my quiver***

I have been reading a lot about this 2:1 rotation but haven't given it a try since being back. Does this rotation make use of AS or MS or purely Auto and Steady? Please explain

Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

Serf

Wowhead has weight filters to help balance whether the agility bonus (I add 10% to the agility number for the kings benefit) is really superior to a non-agility, but high AP/crit/haste/hit etc. item. I've found a number of upgrades that listed lower agility numbers, and was skeptic at first, but I have seen a marked increase in my overall DPS, and a very minor decrease overall in my agility, so my EW hasn't suffered much at all.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that Gankbang.com is not very accurate, as you have to add your own character to the ranks by hand, rather than it actually parse the armory database and show all characters within your search. Yes, your agility is impressive, I fully admit, but using that site to say "I'm No. 1!" is a bit out there.

 

Samonu

I honestly welcome the constructive criticism, so dont think that I wont like what you have to point out or that I havent weighed these options already.

I mean if Im the buff Hunter then I should be the best buff I can be, hence the 5/5 Imp Mark and degree in which I stack agility. I see a piece of gear with 8 more agility and 20 less ap and I think with 17% bonus thats almost 9, more crit, and more ap through ew back to me as well as the rest. I see it as an equal trade if not more so.

As far as Combat Experience is concerned, Its not that great, but given its a percentage that scales, its all relative to the amount of gear you have. I noticed a dramatic increase in not only ew up time but overall raid dps just from 2 points that I would have had in TotH, to which I could just mana pot if needs be.

Somethings double in purpose, the stm leg kit has agility but I am always on ranged tanking duty with sv health and tons of stm and -4% dmg through talents. And Umbral Shivs have the highest agility obtainable out of swp they just also have hit, so granted Im over hit cap but I havent gemed for hit. Also When I switched out my Coif for T4, I saw a huge dps loss, which I find odd but I think the gems I had to use in order to activate the meta was what I was seeing.

This current spec is just application and test of theorycrafting, Imo offering this level of agility to the raid while maintaining 900-950 dps is alright in my opinion. Granted you guys are the dps masters and know all about the formulas of what to use and how, else I wouldnt be asking you.

My main concerns are Trinket options and spec, what you have found to be the best given my spot in progression (T5).

 

Gearknight

Samonu, it is obvious to the majority of the old-timers around here that you are stacking agility too aggressively. I understand that you don't want to change that, as you're proud of what you've achieved, but you've come to us asking for help, and the only proper help to give is that you've stacked too much agility, and need to drop some of it for increases in personal DPS. If you are "very dedicated to survival" as you say, then that means properly weighing increases in EW strength (agility) versus other sources of personal dps (attack power, crit rating, armor penetration, haste), to maximize total raid DPS.

You say you'd take 8 agility over 20 AP. So would I. But when you picked a bracer enchant, you chose 4 agility over 24 AP. This is a little extreme. When you picked a leg enchant, you picked 12 agility over 50 AP and 12 crit rating. This is absolutely absurd. It's quite obvious that the popular choices for these sorts of things are the best choices. Umbral shivs aren't terrible, but getting the correct head enchant would mean you no longer need the hit from them, and many other things become better (badge MH fist, Rage, dagger of bad mojo, to name a few).

Quit with the stamina. "Ranged tanking?" for what?? The only things that come to mind are Supremus trash and Kaz'rogal/Azgalor trash. As far as I remember, there's no boss or trash that a hunter tanks in T5 content. Stamina should be just about ignored on gear and enchants.

Each point of Combat Experience is worse than each point of Ranged Weapon Spec. This has been theorycrafted repeatedly, so if you don't believe it, feel free to search the thread. 0/28/33 is a good spec if you want to stay that, just take 3 RWS and 3 EW. It's odd that given how dedicated you are to making your raid buff as good as possible that you'd only take 2/3 EW. With 40% crit and 1 shot per second, the difference between 2 EW and 3 EW is 89% versus 97% uptime. So only taking 2/3 EW is effectively costing you 8% of your agility. I'll bet that makes you no longer 1st in the US in agility.

The ranged weapon is the one equipment slot where a survival hunter will find that the good choices often have no agility. You'd get the most mileage of a 2.9 or 3.0 speed weapon, with the most important stat being the weapon DPS, by far. The best one you have access to is probably the steam pistol, or you could consider the badge crossbow, despite the nonoptimal speed. Vashj's bow and Legionkiller are both excellent choices if you can get to those bosses too. You also need a meta socket. The increased critical bonus of relentless earthstorm is not to be underestimated. The best way for you to get a meta socket quickly would be a Season 3 helm.

 

Abey

Well, I'm doing something wrong! First, I made all suggested changes to spec and gear, as outlined in this thread (awesome thread) based on guild progression content, gear, passive/active haste and pet (LB). The macro suggested on page 96 is the 1:1.4 as I have 386 HR. I plugged in the changes to the macro but neither arcane shot nor multi-shot are going off. I can manually weave NP and I'm totally willing to do this as I can't program for crap!

Here is the changed macro (modified from ye ole BM 3:2):

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/castrandom Arcane Shot (Rank 9), Multi-Shot (Rank 6)
/click [target=pettarget,exists] MultiBarBottomLeftButton12
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrors

The referenced "MultiBarBottom" line helped KC from sticking my 3:2 macro and reads as:

/castsequence reset=4 Kill Command, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot


What have I messed up? I've searched this thread but can't find a good, complete macro that I can use for BOTH CC'd mobs as well as boss or non-CC'd mobs (ie., macro w/ and w/o multi-shot). I already feel foolish for having to ask a scripting question so please take it easy on me. Also, if I've overlooked a sweet spot in this thread that deals w/ this (ie., pg 55-58 which I DID re-read) please let me know and I'm happy to investigate further on my own.

Again, THIS is now the place I come to for all things hunter. You regulars are just an amazing group of folks. Thank you again for your time, advice and (of course) patience w/ ppl like me!

Sincere thanks always,

Abey.

In an attempt to answer my own question, I have uncovered these macros from other sources:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=10 Auto Shot,Steady Shot, Arcane Shot,Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot,Auto Shot,Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/script UIErrorsFrame:Show()

but perhaps better for my purposes:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=2.44/combat/target !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/castrandom Arcane Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

and I'll just weave multi-shot as needed based on CC v non-CC.

Any comments?

Abey.

 

Gearknight

Abey,

What you probably want to do is simply use:

/castsequence steady shot, !auto shot
/click KCbuttonBlahBlah

And manually add both arcane and multi. This allows total flexibility in 1:1.5 vs 1:1.4 as you gain things like DST/IAotH/drums, as well as going to 1:1 with heroism/rapid fire.

You also seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of "reset=2.44" in the macro. All this part does is make it so that when you stop shooting and then start again, you'll start with an auto shot, not steady first. Personally, I like steady first, it allows for tight misdirected triple taps (steady-arcane-auto) without a need for a separate macro. You can simply do away with the reset conditions altogether, it's no big deal. Personally I have reset=5 and put steady shot first.

reset=target with auto shot first could actually be a problem, leading to things like 2 auto shots with no special in between when you're switching targets (Spitfire totems, shadow demons, etc).

Also, avoid signing your posts.

 

Digitrev

Quick question and I apologize for the randomness. I'm a SV hunter with no haste and this is going to sound dumb to most but through a turn of a events I'm using a the sunfury bow with my guild which is just starting sunwell and I don't mean trash. We havn't had to much luck on range weapons dropping in HJ or BT.

So the question is will the badge bow distroy my dps because I can't maintain a 1:1.5 at 2.52 weapon speed?
And if I get it what is the recomended rotaion knowing I have no haste gear?
Thanks

 

Abey

Thanks for your advice. As mentioned in my post, the macro displayed was simply one I had uncovered that seemed close to what I wanted, but I was not the author of the macro. I displayed it as I copied it for completeness sake but your comment on the reset is well taken.

In any event, thanks for the concise macro as I like things to be clean.

 

Harrumph

This is for both Digitrev and Filena who asked previously.
Also concluding my post on the Sunfury Bow some pages ago.

I recently aquired the badge bow and have run DrBoom tests comparing it with Sunfury. I ran 4 tests, weaving arcane/multi with either the 1:1 macro (/castsequence) or 3:2 macro (/cast /cast or Manito's, mine being Manito's) for each bow.

I have no haste gear.

My armory if you wanna check for gear. The World of Warcraft Armory

The rotation I'm doing with the 1:1 macro is a regular 1:1.5 weaving arcane/multi.
With the 3:2 what I get it's more like a "1:1.6" in the sense that i'll get a chained steady shot in every 3rd round, so it's:
steady-auto-steady-arcane-auto-steady-steady-auto-steady-multishot-auto etc etc...
Others have reported they can achieve a true 1:1.5 or 1:1.4 rotation for this macro, I just seem to not get the timing down for that.

Average of 10 series until oom (with Aspect of the Hawk):

Sunfury
1:1
DPS-------Damage----------Time
937,34----106530,4---------108,73

3:2
DPS-------Damage----------Time
957,91------99733,6---------101,53

Badge xbow
1:1
DPS-------Damage----------Time
981,38-----108850,9---------106,48

3:2
DPS-------Damage----------Time
1019,76---106543,1---------101,55

Difference:
Badge xbow over Sunfury:
Rotation DPS-----Damage------Time
1:1-------44,04----2320,5--------2,25
3:2-------61,85----6809,5--------0,03


Conclusion: no matter if you run the 1:1.5 rotation or the "1:1.6" rotation, you will get an increased DPS from using the Badge XBow. It's always better, regardless of rotation.
And yes you can achieve a good rotation with the badge bow despite the faster speed. It will be tighter but it's definitely possible to get a solid 1:1.5 rotation down using the 1:1 macro. The 3:2, despite the dodgier rotation, has produced better dps for me, tho it is more Mana inefficent and might be hard to sustain in raid.

 

Samonu

What on the wowhead's weight scale would you suggest I set the values at? To determine if a ranged weapon is good for survival and what the progression is of my upgrades will be.

Also between DST, Beserker's Call, and the Hourglass of the Unraveller which would you choose to pair with the Tsunami Talisman for a 7/20/34 spec? And would they all be chumped by Madness of the Betrayer?

 

Digitrev

I grabed the badge bow and discovered that you can do a 1.1:5 with imp AS with it still even at 2.44 weapon speed.

The part I don't understand is how. Imp AS has a 5 sec CD weapon speed 2.44 x 2 = 4.88 sec. So AS needs to cool .12 sec sooner.

But some how without imp AS 6 sec CD a 2.52 weapon speed doesn't work with a 1.1:5. Since 2.52 x 2 is 5.02 making requiring AS to CD .98 sec faster then 6 sec.

I guess the diffrence of .86 sec is all it takes to make or break the rotation. I also notice 3:2 does a little more dps with the badge bow then a 1.1:5 but if you try a 3:2 with a 2.52 weapon speed its better to stick with 1.1:5.

 

Harrumph

Or don't take Impr AS and weave with Arcane and Multi. Impr AS just seems like a waste of points to me in that sense, since AS/Multi does the job just as well.

 

Digitrev

I didn't use multi in my 1.1:5 test for 2 purposes. First being shooting multi at Dr.boom and hitting his bombs around him throw you're dps compairsons way off. And 2nd because multi has a cast time and Arcane shot barly fits with a 2.44 weapon speed. Its already behond me how AS cools fast enough to be shot every 2x 1:1 at 2.44 theres hardly any room for a .5 cast time.

 

Harrumph

If you wanna compare a rotation without multi with one including it, use a combat log parser and just remove the hits on the bombs perhaps?
The test I did on Sunfury vs Badge Xbow, the rotation always included Multi Shot, so that condition is the same in all series, and they can still be compared. So i didn't edit and parse my log, I just went by the numbers in Recount.

I don't know if it's up to latency (i have 100-150 ms usually), but I have not seen any greater problems fitting in Multi's even with the faster speed of the xbow.
Theoretically it will fit (1,3s (SS cast)+ 0,5s (MS cast) +0,5s (next auto cast) is less than 2,44 s) even when accounting for latency (you'll have 0,14 s minus latency to start the multi), and the remaining 0,5 s of the Multi GCD does not delay the following steady-auto (0,5s (remaining GCD) + 1,3s (SS) + 0,5s (auto cast) is less than 2.44). I have tried to visualise the idealised shot timing below.

Specials
SS--------MS+GCD---SS----------SS--------AS+GCD--SS
|---1,3---|0,5|--1---|---1,3---|---|---1,3---|---1,5----|---1,3---|----|
|------2,44----|--|------2,44---|--|------2,44----|--|------2,44----|--|
Auto (hidden cast shown by the extra vertical bars)

In reality it's ofc very tight tho, and in my case I think I probably add some small amount of pushback almost every cast, varying with the human factor of how exact i manage to time my macro/shots-button presses.

This doesn't seem to matter much though, because of the 10 s CD on Multi. When the 2nd Multi shot is up it has been (theoretically) brought out of sync abit (10-9,76 = 0,24 s), and it's only possible to execute it with pushback of the next auto anyway, effectively lowering my average draw speed to 2,5 s over the course of 4 autos.

The delay for Multi to come out of CD is even worse on the 3rd time around, I'd even miss it occasionaly, (Multi pops out after auto, and your next round of rotation is fucked).
Therefor I would often leave it out on the 3rd cooldown if it looked too close for comfort, instead firing it after the immediate next steady. So I will correct myself: my rotation actually falls somewhere in between a true 1:1.5 and 1:1.4.

So, there's obviously more pushback issues with the Badge Xbow than Sunfury, but it still produces comfortably more dps for me not to worry about that.

I would guess it is just the same with the Impr AS rotation you're doing, that you are introducing a bit of pushback, effectively spacing the autos 2,5 s apart.

 

Serf

I'd personally use this exact page.

Wowhead Ranged Weapon Filter

And from every calculation I've read, from all the advice that's been given by the great number crunchers here, it quite effectively showcases the truth of every calculation done for survival. Agility on your ranged weapon is nowhere near as important as it being a big damage beater, basically. The only personal choice change I'd make is using the Merciless crossbow over the steam-pistol for the minimum-maximum damage range; It actually resulted in an overall DPS and damage done increase for me, a total increase over and above the relative DPS gain from the lost agility by a considerable margin, however that could quite possibly have been due to variables unable to be filtered, per se.

 

Ashunga

Hi

I have been BM from Kara to Sunwell, although after the recomendation of the guild, I have decided to survival to help the raid. Unfortunetly I am too ignorant to fully understand the mechanics on this spec. After reading many, many, many pages of this 100+ post, i still seem to of either gotton myself lost or just missinterpretting alot of the advice.

Atm, im still changing a variety of gems around but when im finished i'll be around :

850agi +
40.00% crit +
2400ap +
speed 2.52 with BristleBlitz striker bow
53 haste passive
hit caped
I have my 4p/T6
Im also looking towards going with the 5/20/36 spec
I dont have a DST

Un-buffed


I would love some help with a variety of dps macros to run with, when using these. I have read many post, but as I mentioned im a bit lost about these macros, unless your are speaking of the 1:1 or the 3:1. All others im afraid are beyond my current knowledge unfortunetly. Therefor if you can spare some advice, involving a specific amount of haste to determine which macro is best and also could plz post these macros, instead of just stating them. As I am still a bit confused as whats the /cast/cast macros, 1:1.4 & 1:1/5, and about adding manual weavings into my macros. Plz if anyone could offer any broad form or insite for a new hunter on the spec, it would be most apprecaited.

 

Barradin

Don't use the Tsunami talisman.

Take beserker's call and the DST! You've got 4 pc T6 AND the DST! The premise behind the build you mentioned is to be hasted as much as possible during the fight... allowing you to shoot the BM 3:2 rotation or even the 1:1 as much as possible. The high proc rate, and large haste boost, on the DST is ideal fort his purpose (it's basically a second, stacking, quick shots). Ideally, you should get your attack speed to whatever speed you need with passive haste so that:

A) Quick shots puts you below 2.07 or so (fast enough for a 3:2 without chaining steadies).
B) The DST puts you below 2.07
C) any combination of haste procs as well as Rapid fire or heroism will put you at or near a 1:1.

You should see exceptional damage with a setup like this and gear like yours. The biggest problem here is that you need to spend some time planning out the fight in advance. You need to coordinate with your shamans (if you have them) so that you know when they are dropping their heroisms. You can then plan when and in what order to use your Rapid fire, Haste potions, drums, etc. so that you are under SOME kind of haste effects all the time or as much as possible.

I'd pair it with beserker's call since timing an on use trinket with a Rapid fire or heroism yields enormous burst dps.

The madness and Tsunami both provide hit rating (which is fairly useless as SV hunters reach hit cap easily) and Tsunami has a fairly low proc rate (once per minute or so I believe).

 

Whitefyst

Sorry that I have not replied to this sooner, but I am no longer playing WoW due to RL matters that need attention. Because I am not playing WoW, I haven't been following the thread and haven't been planning to reply to anything since I am no longer actively experiencing the game and any changes in it since the last I played to be a qualified contributor.

However, I was bored at work today and thought I would take a look to see what was new and saw this question concerning a previous post of mine. Since this involves a clarification of a previous post, I feel it is still appropriate to reply to it. Also, in the few posts I have looked at in this brief glimpse, I have not yet seen a sufficient reply.

With that said...

First, please do not mix apples and oranges. SV hunters and BM hunters have very different skill sets, talents, and haste operating ranges that affect their DPS. The differences in AP and crit and benefits that trigger from our different talents in various situations causes my analysis not to translate between the two. Furthermore, the must faster base attack speed of a BM biases the BM hunters to a different set of rotations than SV hunters.

Next, my analyses only applied directly to the main SV hunter specs (0/20/41 and 7/20/34) and the well-established rotation possibilities with a given set gear, etc., but with the trends being able to be roughly generalized to other SV hunter's situations. In the analyses I made it clear the conditions under which they were performed with a long list of assumptions, and I made it clear that there are many factors, such as playing style, FPS, latency, etc. that affect the results. It is important to keep the analysis in context and not extrapolate it too far from the given conditions of the analysis.

What my analysis did was for the assumptions provided indicate for both 3.0 and 2.8 base weapon speed for SV hunters in general what rotations theoretically provided the maximum DPS at certain haste (combined passive and active) values. This assumes that you are able to ideally implement your rotation and that mana consumption is not an issue.

What this analysis found was that unhasted or at low haste values that the 1:1.5/4 always outperformed the 2:1/3:2 (at least for the passive haste amounts in the analysis). It also found that in some cases the 1:1.4 outperformed the 2:1/3:2 over the complete range of haste values evaluated. In the scenarios that the 2:1/3:2 started outperforming the 1:1.5/4 after certain haste values, it was found that at those haste values the 1:1 was outperforming all the options resulting in best ideal rotation set being using 1:1.5/4 under certain haste values and then the 1:1 over that haste value.

What my analysis also stated is that if you are someone whose average haste situation in raids is that you often operate at haste values close to or over the switch haste value for your weapon speed (the table showed the cutoff point) that a 2:1/3:2/1:1 rotation will still work well (although not the ideal DPS) since you are mostly in the 3:2/1:1 parts of the rotation. The extreme of this statement is that if you are always hasted at or above the 1:1 change to point, then it really doesn't matter which rotation set you use since you will be doing 1:1 in either case. Since BM hunters already faster attack speed than SV hunters puts them at a weapon speed that is much closer to the 1:1 cut off unhasted and then with QS procs combined with other haste effects keeping them close or over that threshold, the 2:1/3:2/1:1 rotation works damn well (although when operating at lower haste effects there are definitely points where an arcane shot could be thrown in to increase DPS but with how the BMs haste situation changes so frequently from QS, those opportunities are less frequent and more unpredictable making trying to add them in possibly resulting in lower DPS due to implementing their addition at the wrong time).

Furthermore, the analysis was for ideal rotations. As we all know, the 2:1/3:2/1:1 rotation is easy to implement with great macros for doing so, such that it is easier to achieve nearer the idealized best that these rotations can do. On the other hand, the 1:1.5/4 is not easy to implement correctly and has no ideal macros that work for everyone in all the various situations that different players can encounter. Thus, for a lot of SV hunters who have not spent enough time to master the 1:1.5/4 rotation to work well for them or are unable to due to their playing conditions, they get better results with the 2:1/3:2/1:1 and correctly use it.

Finally, my limited analysis was never meant to be a definitive answer to say that all SVs hunters should do such and such (it only provides a definitive answer for hunter's who's situations match mine). It was meant to provide some additional information that each SV hunter can assess for their given situation in determining what best works for them.

Well, good luck to you all!

 

Jisora

Apologies in advance from a forum newbie. I did run a search which only flagged this and some other really long threads. I'm sure the answer is buried in here somewhere, but over an hour of reading didn't find it...

I'm looking at respeccing a hunter to Survival and have heard many people say that 650 is a minimum agility for SV. The toon is currently not geared for SV, but has about 2100AP w/o raid buffs and 23% crit. Unbuffed Agi in current spec is just over 500, so with a SV spec and raid buffs should be a bit over 650. Guild is running SSC and TK.

Is the 650 AGI minimum based on reaching the point at which your raid benefit from EW normally exceeds the additional personal DPS contribution you would provide with a BM spec? Or is there some other reason for the magic 650 number? Also, is the 650 before or after buffs?

Thanks in advance for your patience with a healer learning to play a DPS class!

 

Serf

From what I remember, that would be correct- 650 agility pre-LR is where it becomes a viable buff. Remember, EW uses 25% of your agility as an AP buff, so 650 agility becomes 747, which divided by 25% becomes 186.875 AP per person. If it's a magic-heavy raid, certainly it can seem like a waste, but even with just 5 physical DPS, it becomes a very nice buff, totalling 934.375 AP to the physical DPS in the raid or approxmately 66.74 hunter DPS (14 AP = 1 DPS). This doesn't take into effect the TPS your tanks recieve either, which is also a boon.

If you have any +AP gems, switch those for the respective agility gems, with any yellow slots filled with Agi/Hit, and blue with agi/stam, unless you can fit in two crit/stam gems , in which case you can simply use agility gems everywhere else (It allows you to be less worried about replacing a particular gemmed item to keep your metagem requirement).