Has anyone noticed that LnL will not proc again off of a second mob that is run through your frost trap on the ground, even if the first mob is dead?

Also, what are your thoughts on raid utility of Point of No Escape. It would seem in a place like MH it might be really good for AoE. It does seem more situational for sure. Just wondering if we have a BM, MM in the raid already if it makes sense to grab those talents or go for more DPS with the mana battery.

I'm about to make the switch to a wind serpent pet and was looking at my options on petopia. Some are tagged as casters while others are not. Is this an error (i.e. all wind serpents are actually the caster variety?), or are some wind serpents the "caster" variety stat-wise, while others are not? Furthermore, for a raiding pet, do I want the caster variety, or do I want the normal type (assuming they exist) and then teach them the lightning breath skill? Thanks in advance for the help clarifying that distinction for me.

Edit: so I did some more research and apparently there are both caster and non-caster varieties of wind serpents to tame. I just want to confirm that we need to avoid the caster wind serpents as survival hunters for optimum raid dps. I realize the caster versions have lousy stats, but I just want to make sure that the boosted intelligence stat doesn't help increase the pet's spell damage (which is the whole reason a survival hunter would want one in the first place).

Afternoon everyone,

Well I know some people are already planning/testing towards WoTLK, however I was hoping to get some good advice from veterans here for this last month or so while my guild tries to finish off SWP =)

I recently got 4 pc T6 and I too have a DST. I used the 1:1.5 rotation with a 0/2x/3x(or somethin like that, been a long time) spec.

I'm looking to use the 7/20/34 spec now that I got the T6 bonus, however I don't know if it's changed recently or not on the rotation. Any suggestions?(Using BM 3:2 atm, which looks more like a 2:1 during boss fights)

Nothing has really changed on the 7/20/34 spec yet, still using the BM /cast /cast macro. You have about a week to enjoy it. Ideally I always found getting closer to 2.3 speed auto's to be best, 2.4 and above always felt like I was hurling lead baseballs at the boss, although there are some guys further up the food chain that are fairly slow on autos as well, so take as you will. But yes, /cast /cast macro.

Just wanted to drop a quick thank you to everyone in here who by debating theories and providing feedback helped me during my time in TBC. Being top 3 dps, frequently #1 while at the same time providing my raid with an additional 400+AP (~1200-1250 agi raid buffed +Inp Hunter's Mark) was a challenge and fun.

It looks as though in 3.02 and beyond the SV tree will not hold the appeal it did for me in TBC, but I look forward to further discussions in these forums for our WotLK builds.

Question on 0/10/51 spec...

Rin about 290 int buffed.


3/3 Careful aim and 2/5 mortal shots.

OR

5/5 Mortal shots.

I thought about going arcane shot over explosive shot but then TnT would be a waste and there isn't really anywhere else to put em. Surv has just too many spots to buff explosive shot. What you guys think?

Ex

That's what I was planning but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. :-) On top of the AP scaling with ExS is also benefits from what an extra 9% crit over any other shot. I'll take it.

This is how I am looking to spec then the servers go live in about 7 hrs.

0/10/51 what I think will be cookie cutter at 70. Let me know if you have ny input.

Ex

Also due to my bad luck with very specific items I can very easily run 145 hit. No SFS yet I'm on KJ :-(

Identical to the spec I came up with last night at 3am. I'll be trying explosive shot out in Sunwell tonight to see whether it's worth the push past MT. On the test dummy I was at an unbuffed 3.4k RAP and 53.4% crit at 70. Pretty mindblowing.

2/5 should be enough to keep up Replenishment, We are rarely beyond 30 yards so sniper training is wasted quite often, and only applies to certain shots. Noxious stings is 3% of all damage on targets you sting, this will apply to all of your specials as well as auto. Really don't need the imp FD either.


I am thinking that http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...00000000000000 will be more of the cookie cutter spec at 70.

I could be wrong, but my gut says that MS is the stronger talent since crit is such a big part of SV's dps. I think the formula would be:

18 * [percent of total dps that benefit from MS] * [% crit] = % increase in dps from 5/5 MS vs 2/5 MS

Compare the result to what the percent increase in dps would be from that flat AP boost from 3/3 CA and it would tell you which is better. A SV hunter will only be firing ES, Steady, Serpent and auto right? Of those, Steady and Explosive shot are the only ones that benefit from MS as of the latest patch I believe. Let's assume that 40% of our total dps comes from steady and explosive shot damage (my wow computer is being repaired so I don't have real numbers for this, please feel free to correct me if this guess is off), furthermore let's assume a 45% crit chance in a raiding senario (a conservative value for SV).

18 * [.40] * [.45] = 3.24% total increase in DPS from those extra 3 points in MS. I hope that helps.

Hmm, I like the spec, but
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...00000000000000
is what I ended up trying. That will probably change when I start levelling, but even in my t5/badge gear my crit rate is high enough that I don't find the extra point in T.N.T that big a deal or the 2/3EW. The losses of those points seem relatively minor, and with the changes to raidwide buffs I can be in range of the WF totem and still manage to keep far enough out for sniper .

I speak from T5 and some MH content though, so not sure how much harder that gets in the higher end raids so take what little my opinion matters for with a grain of salt.

Quick Edit btw:
Stuck in a training right now so can't run math, but working off the wotlk spreadsheet, which quite probably has some inaccuracies, the missing point from EW is a minor increase, I see a 3dps increase, the point in TnT is about 10dps.

However if you can manage to use sniper training it's registering about a 60dps increase for me give or take about 4 dps there.

I was an avid survival fan up until this recent patch. It's my opinion that a survival build at lvl 70 just won't be very viable when compared to the other builds. Once we reach 80, then I think it would stand a chance to do better (haven't tested at beta so don't know).

Anyway, the reason I think Survival won't be able to cut it at 70 is because you need to spec into explosive shot (the primary special for the spec) and to do so means you need to skip Go for the Throat. With the changes made to pets, they are much more effective than they were before, and need focus to keep good dps. I specced my hunter marksman after the patch and from the raiding i've been doing (cleared sunwell this last week), my pet has been doing about 20% of my dps (this is with Go for the Throat). That means that my pet is doing about 500 dps by himself (depends on the fight). Now, if he didn't have Go for the Throat, he wouldn't be able to sustain that dps without the focus regen the talent gives.

Therefore, I think that by speccing deep survival (into explosive shot) that you're sacrificing too much pet dps in the process. At level 80, this won't be an issue but right now it is. Anyone who is trying to maximize their dps would probably need to rethink survival right now, especially since EW no longer affects the raid you need to work on personal dps.

Somehow mana has become an issue in my raid even with 2 or more shadow priests on any given night and I've decided to sacrifice my personal dps for the healers sake. I spent 1-70 MM and went BM when my guild entered SSC/TK and I've been spec'd such ever since. I have no idea what shot rotation a Survival hunter is expected to use. I knew of a rotation pre-patch but I assume it's no longer viable. Any input is appreciated.

Edit: Figured it out on my own. My question now is if 40% crit unbuffed is a decent amount of crit for survival raiding? I recall seeing someone say they had 45%, but im not sure if they were speaking raid buffed or not. Ty.

I have stayed SV to help the raid with Mana Replenishment and this combined with Blessing of Wisdom and all of the other raid wide Mana restoration abilities (mana spring totems, Judgement of the Wise, Vampiric Touch) I have found the opposite - that mana does not seem to be an issue any more.

I do use Illidans bow though which will help ofc...but our Markmanship hunter was also saying he had no mana issues as well and that spec burns mana like no other.

If you do get low then you always have pots and Aspect of the Viper restores your whole mana pool within a few seconds now although it is obviously not prefereable.

As auto-shot is no longer locked out I have found this rather crude spam macro has gotten me very decent DPS. Top DPS a lot of the time too:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/tt
/castsequence reset=2 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/castrandom Explosive Shot, Multi-Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

The /tt element relates to an addon TrackThat that automatically set's the tracking to that of your current target:

TrackThat! v1.0.0 - Hunter Mods - World of Warcraft Mods, Addons, and More!

Spec Used is the cookie cutter version that has been mentioned already:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...00000000000000

It works for me anyway so maybe some of you can get some use from it.

I'm sure there are better solutions out there though...

i think 5/5 ms will benefit more than 3/3 CA, but i might depand on youre crit ofc.
On teron i had a 54 % crit for steadyshot and 42 % on explosive shot. steadyshot autoshot is almost a 1:1 situation (some lag and other things make is a bit less) so ss is quite a lot of your damage.
I think 5/5 will benefit more, but then again, i cant prove it with numbers and i still dont know how this spreadsheet works (gonne find that out this week :-p)

Regards

Btw i think 2 or 3 talentpoints in hunting paarty will be enough to keep the replenishment up, same goes for expose weakness.

Looking over WoW webstats as a SV hunter I find that my typical damage breakdown is

36%auto
32%SS
12%ES
5%SerpSting
15% pet

Is this about what we should expect based on what others are seeing as well?

About right, Im seeing a bit higer percentage in ES but then I have L&L, my petdamage is lower due to no GftT and it being a Cat instead of a Scorpid (waiting for the nerf to see if it still does more damage).

My distribution at Bossfigths (standing still and nuking) is about

32% Auto
30% Steady
22% Explosive
6% Serpent
10% Pet

Overall damage over a complete Raid allways has a very high factor of Volley damage since thats what Im using when 4 or more trashtargets fit underneath. A Boss that requires a lot of movement will have a higher factor of Explosive and Serpent damage component ofc.

Btw, in the WotLK topic there is a cry for a new SV Hunter topic. One without all the baggage of 2.1 till now. I'll second that request. Im not the most suited to do a recap and introductionary post, maybe one of you mathjockeys wants a go at it?

I did on teron last week a dps of around 2k, since all the haste and things my speed was around 1.6 all the time so i didnt use ES that much. Numbers are not normal but it looked like

AS 36%
SS 35%
ES 5%
SS 4%
pet 20 %



On other fights ES is a bit higher but never above 15% and average is like 9% i think, dont understand how you guys get high numbers like 22%. Maybe i doesnt use LnL good enough, but still the differnce seems a bit high imo.

btw last time i went as BM since we had sp with us (and i was curious) and I did 3.2 k dps, which imo is to much of a difference. I had same gear so there were no differences in that part (same raidbuffs too). Tho i liked playing surv more than bm, i think ill spec BM for a while till it seems mana is such a big issue that i need to be surv again (not for my own mana, but as mana battery i ment ofc).

Regards