Don't forget the 2 funky vendors at Darkmoon Faire. If camping (or get guildies who are doing it) for cheap herbs and pots anyway, consider buying out any rank IV or V scrolls he has so they might respawn agility. Personally, given the cost involved - I'm not proud. I took any scroll I could get. (Yes, even rank I, but hey, I had +6.25 agi on all bosses for a week after).

I think scrolls don't stack with class buffs like mark of the wild.

I find once I go viper, that's it for the fight, and generally only switch back as I know I can now blast the last of my mana out in the boss's last 10% or so. One thing, which admittedly was a little more important before the 2.2 buff to Viper, is the cost of the aspect switches - both in shots skipped and mana. 180 mana to switch to viper and back means even running on fumes (~10% mana), you need 10 seconds with Viper up to get payback for the total cost of going back to hawk later. You'll also likely skip two steady shots. As such, I'd rather hit viper when at around 30%, and with some raid support for regen (mst/tide in particular), later hit a fel mana, and go back to hawk when I'm comfortable I can then finish out the fight with no more mana issues.

As for using viper for the entire fight (was mentioned in some post, might not have been Glaurong), as viper is now so poor when you have a lot of mana, I'd always start hawk, drop a super mana as soon as I'm 3K mana down, which normally means you can pot once more, then hit viper for a minute or more, drop the fel mana, and back to hawk.

Strength, agility and protection scrolls do (Gift isn't an "agility buff", it has a class all of it's own from what I can tell), whereas stamina, spirit and intellect do not stack with the respective class buffs that just buff that one stat.

I was wondering what a good dps SV spec would be. I'm torn between 0/21/40 or 0/24/37. Here is my current gear and talent setup
My armory

So we just downed Doomwalker and I got the barrel blade longrifle. Popped in 2 delicates and the crit scope and I was all happy. Until I realized it was 2dps more than wolfslayer and .1 second faster. I've been clipping so many more of my shots now with this gun. Any ideas. Was it a bad choice? Should I just stick to Auto Steady and weave in Arcane, forgetting multi?

Least I have a weapon if/when I go back to BM.

just add in /cast LightningBreath There may be a space before breath.

I checked and inputted your armory profile into Cheeky's Spreadsheet for comparison between the [Barrel-Blade Longrifle] and [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] using the 1:1.x shot cycles (auto-steady base while weaving in arcane or arcane/multi). Here are the findings:

Weaving arcane only:
WolfSlayer Sniper Rifle gives 1225.05 dps
Barrel Blade Longrifle gives 1219.99 dps

Weaving arcane and multi:
WolfSlayer Sniper Rifle gives 1234.51 dps
Barrel Blade Longrifle gives 1229.90 dps

*dps includes pet damage, over 50-shot cycle, raid buffed (Gift, might, kings, Major Agility, Warp Burger), assuming 0.2 sec latency*

Based on these numbers, the WSR gives you better dps than the BBL. I also noticed that under the above latency conditions, your auto-shot frequency under either shot cycle was 2.7 seconds, meaning that you would "clip" more using BBL, thus attributing to its lower dps output.

As you can see from the numbers above, you would deal better damage when you weave in both multi and arcane than when you only weave arcane on either weapon.

However, since the BBL gives you an additional 21.5 agi (raid-buffed), it translates to a ~5AP stronger EW. Whether or not this effect is worth taking the 5~6dps hit for you depends on how many physical dps you have in the raid.

Hope this helps, and please let me know if there's any discrepancies in the calculations.

I am saddened that I spent dkp on a downgrade. This is taking into account the gems and crit scope, true?

Well, I wouldn't worry about that very much. Using simple 1:1 rotations, (but working with somewhat different gear -t5shoulders+chest, 3/5 t4 and 2 [Netherbane] and the rest of the slots are similar), and my current Survival spec, [Barrel-Blade Longrifle] pulls ahead of [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle]

Here are the results with [Dragonspine Trophy] and [Tsunami Talisman]
Wolfslayer 1117.77 dps
Barrel-Blade 1139.36 dps

Here are the results with [Bloodlust Brooch] and [Tsunami Talisman]
Wolfslayer 1068.77 dps
Barrel Blade 1096.71 dps

Everything else was the same way, gems were [Delicate Living Ruby] after getting the [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] prerequisites. I used a cat for testing, and all my usual raid buffs except shamans, since i never get grouped with one. I used a fully debuffed (5xsunder, Imp Hunter's mark EW) Lurker Below as a benchmark. The values i took into account are the hunter's personal dps, NOT the total (hunter+pet) dps.
Also, i used [Stabilized Eternium Scope], [Felbane Slugs] and [Smuggler's Ammo Pouch]

Now, obviously, this doesn't refer to your exact situation, but it does show that simply skipping all specials seems to benefit Barrel-Blade more, even as SV build. So, the DKP is not wasted completely.

First off I don't play a hunter the survial hunter is my GF charcter, but i do alot of research on hunters,

I Saw earlier in the post that people were throwing around that GCD stops auto shot from casting when it doesn't from all the testing I've done and from other melee classes i play, things that are Effected by GCD are things that trigger it as well, that said if your doing a 1:1.5 shot rotation seems you have to put steady shot first because its cast time will stop auto shot from casting. A macro i played with on Dr. boom yeilded about a 1000 dps for 2 min and non epic ammo was used The World of Warcraft Armory


/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, Auto Shot,
/castrandom [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Lightning Breath(Rank 6) '

another thing i seemed to notice is the value of agi for a SV hunter (ap wise) with
with 1000 agi =1000 ap *LR(1.15) 1150 Agi + kings (*1.10) 1265agi so thats now 1265 ap from the agi ad SI(1.04) gives the agi now 1315.6 ap finally adding on EW to your own ap assuming its up 30s/per 1 min the agility you have will give an additonal 158 ap to your own giveing you 1473ap so it seems like per point of AGI you get you fain 1.5 ap almost plus crit which allows EW to stay up more often increaseing the ratio further. so in the end would you really ever not want to put AGI in your gear (GEM, Enchant) to gain .5 more ap and no crit.

well thats my 2 cents

Now test sunfury, rank 1 multi, viper and 1.1:5 rotation with 5/5 MT instead of IAotH. Im sure youll see much higher dps and higher efficiency as survival.

Fair enough, I've been expecting Sunfury to be a better Survival dps weapon, and here are the results (Multishot is not rank 1, though)

1. [Dragonspine Trophy] and [Tsunami Talisman]
Sunfury 1189.93 dps
Wolfslayer 1165.18 dps
Barrel-Blade 1171.71 dps

2. [Bloodlust Brooch] and [Tsunami Talisman] (and this was quite a big surprise for me, as a Dragonspine owner)
Sunfury 1200.00 dps
Wolfslayer 1152.21 dps
Barrel-Blade 1154.97 dps

Same setup as before, except using Viper and the 1:1.x rotation. I've used my talent spec (0/20/41 for both this and the previous tests, so there is no IAOTH), and default latency of 0.2

EDIT: Worth taking into account the Expose Weakness effects
214.31 AP for Sunfury
226,13 AP for Barrel Blade with 2x[Design: Delicate Living Ruby]
228.80 AP for Barrel-Blade with 1x[Delicate Fire Ruby]

The [Dragonspine Trophy] no longer provides enough haste to make the 1:1 rotation under proc out-perform the 1:1.5 rotation without haste effects. For mana efficiency the DST is great for MM/Survival Hunters, for pure DPS isn't not good at all.

True, but I'm using a 1.5 rotation with my Sunfury. However, due to the fact that I'm often clipping that rotation when my latency jumps above optimal, I did not even consider testing the 2, even faster rifles with that rotation in the first place. Also, I used Aspect of the Hawk for the first test mainly because I have no idea how accurate the Viper calculations are, based on the new scaling with the mana pool percentages. The same reason why I don't consistently use Viper for raids in the first place.

I didn't change anything for Viper with the 2.2 changes. I just have no clue how to model it in any meaningful way.

Pretty nifty tool there; I'm impressed, and, as soon as i get a bit of spare time, I'll do some more detailed consumable management. Finding a good point to switch to viper should now be a piece of cake, now that the formula has been revealed.

Thanks

I don't suppose you could do some testing with Tsunami Talisman and the Hourglass of the Unraveller for me since you already have the baseline?

Working with the same gear setup as before (t5 Chest+shoulders, 3/5t4 2x[Netherbane], mostly agility sockets), here are the results with [Tsunami Talisman] and [Hourglass of the Unraveller]. The reason I'm not going to work with everyone's individual gear is so that the results in various threads can be benchmarked via the same standards, with one or two changing factors (ie Ranged weapon, trinket, rotation). Ammo used is either [Felbane Slugs] or [Warden's Arrow], and the quivers are 15% haste rep rewards.
EDIT: Using Aspect of the Hawk /EDIT

1:1 shot rotations:
Sunfury: 1025.78 dps
Wolfslayer 1051.79 dps
Barrel-Blade (with 2x[Delicate Living Ruby]) 1085.36 dps

1:1.x shot rotations: (but as i've stated before, i doubt in anything past optimal latency you could sustain this kind of rotation with a Barrel-Blade)
Sunfury: 1217.54
Wolfslayer: 1169.20
Barrel-Blade: 1162.83

EDIT: Subsequently, I've also introduced data using Aspect of the Viper /EDIT
1:1 rotation
Sunfury: 994.75
Wolfslayer: 1019.62
Barrel-Blade: 1052.34

1:1.5 rotation
Sunfury: 1181.43
Wolfslayer: 1134.09
Barrel-Blade: 1128.03

Id say Brooch+Tsunami would be better than Hourglass+Tsunami. You can boost your AP when you pop rapid fire. The average stat + cooldown / procc boost when ignoring the rapid fire is about the same for both brooch and hourglass i believe. So the rapid fire boost would benefit brooch more.

ZA trinket will be by far the best trinket for hunters till sunwell i believe. Thus ZA trinket + Tsunami will be perfect for survival.

Hey all, just wanted to report back in and say thanks for the help. I seem to have improved a bit from last week already! Here's our night 1 in SSC. I had a shadowpriest for the back half of the night only. (Otherwise was grouped with healers and warlocks)


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Tidewalker afforded me the chance to break 1k! And a few of the other fights I was pretty satisfied as well. (Lurker for example) The others I still feel like I am underperforming, but maybe those fights are just not good to use a judge of my work ethic.

I can't tell if the Wind Serpent is doing decent damage or not, since I he was not afforded buffs, or any kind of solid grouping to boost up his damage. So for the time being he gets to stay and I'll see how it goes. Thanks again guys, and as always, if you see something I've missed, or need to change, please help me figure it out.

I fucking need to run Kara. I'm BM now because my weapon just sucks for survival and miss it so much. Glowing red sucks.