Math on that doesn't line up at all.

2x [Dagger of Bad Mojo] =
82 Agility
80 Ap
280 Armor Ignore (in the neighborhood of 2% damage boost)

[Reforged Trollbane] =
89 Agi
100 Ap
65 Stam
OR
94 Agi
94 Ap
58 Stam

12 Agility and 14 attack power equate to a personal DPS gain of approximately 16dps, and additional Expose Weakness effect of a little over 1 dps per physical attacker.

Assuming 1k dps, these come out really equal. Except that the two hander has 58 (or 65, depending on gem preferrence) more stam, and significantly harder raptor strikes for when you just have to melee.

You've got to get your stam somewhere, and I really think this is the place to do it, you won't find a 58+ stam upgrade anywhere else for as cheap.

I think you're underestimating armor penetration, using the spreadsheet the daggers come out about 13 dps ahead, and that's assuming crimson spinels in Trollbane which might be in short supply unless you've been farming BT for a while. And personally I've never found stamina to be a problem as survival, between Survivalist and the fairly high stamina on most mail gear I have more HP than almost any non-tank in a raid, combined with 4% less damage taken surviving becomes almost a non-issue. Of course more stamina doesn't hurt but I wouldn't sacrifice DPS for it.

I've recently switched to Survival spec and as expected I've noticed a drop in personal dps (about 100dps drop from BM). Fully raid buffed I have 1024 agility. Before speccing SV I was 41/20 BM. SV utility in raids revolves largely around expose weakness. In my case that means giving all physical attackers a little more than a 250ap buff, but with all the BC content, there are so many bosses where dps is split ie. casters/ranged dps on one mob, and melee on another. This is where I find myself on the fence for the whole SV spec and the "benefit" it really has for raids.

Our raid make up runs pretty heavy on physical dmg. 3-4 tanks 2-3 rogues, 1 dps warrior, 2-3 hunters which is great for gaining full benefit of expose weakness, but again dps is all too many times split. So I guess my question is, how do I figure out if/when expose weakness is buffing the rest of the physical dps enough to surpass the loss in my own personal dps from not being BM with FI, and enough mana efficiency to run 5/5 imp Hunters Mark?

If dps is split you should go with melees unless there is a major need of dps on the ranged target or you have other duties.

I haven't been able to upgrade my gear in about a month. With ZA and the new badge items, and with me waiting for the breastplate off hydross, i'm wondering what i could do to improve my gear as well.... here's to logging out on my surv gear... And as far as 25 man raiding goes, we've only cleared ssc:Hydoss, lurker, eye:the lootchicken and solarian, and we're about 1 run away from full clearing ZA with kara and grull on farm. ideas?

This is what I am usually doing in raids. If ranged is on one target and melee on another, I am effectively melee while choosing a target.

Search in this thread for the actual equation... but as a Survival Hunter your contribution is:

your AP buff *0.3*(number of physical damage classes in raid-yourself)... so let's say you have 1000 agility and there are 8 total physical damage classes (not including pets).

250*0.3*7= 525 dps

This number is then added to your own personal dps... so let's say you are at ~950 dps you would add 525 onto that and see your total dps contribution to the raid. 1475... not too shabby.

Survival is absolutely a benefit and I have found it to be crucial during progression nights. The buff I give the raid is invaluable and you should take pride in it. I do not top the dps meters too often however, I consider my job well done if I can get the top five dps spots full of physical dps classes.

As for the other portion of your post, for any boss where dps is split, I absolutely stick with melee to provide them with the buff.

I"m trying to optimise my damage output aswell as maintain a high crit strike. I do realise I need replacements for my chest, legs, shoulder (currently using Merc Shoulders) and my helm.
The World of Warcraft Armory
Sorry I'm currently in PvP gear.
I was wondering if anyone had any tips as to how I could do what I"m trying to do, asides from respeccing. I like my spec, both pvp and pve wise

So I'm reading through all this and wondering, does anyone have a new 2.3 decent working surv macro to spam?

Hey guys,

I was wondering if y'all could help me out here...
Basically, the only weapons I have access to right now for my survival hunter are Legacy(+35agi), 2x stellaris(+20agi each), and sonic spear(+35agi).

Which one would be better for a survival build? I figured Legacy, even though it has less agi than the twin stellaris. Are there any other weapons that are attainable outside of 25 man raids? (not a big raiding server)

Legacy, unless you seriously lack hit rating, in that case sonic spear.

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot(rank 1), Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear() ; script UIErrorsFrame:Show()

Rank 6 multi if youre fine with mana

280 penetration can be worth up to nearly 100 ap if you already have some penetration, 12 agi and 14 ap isnt even close beeing equal. You also didnt mention huge ammount of mp5 from additional mana oil when dw, that equals ~1 less points in TotH in my experience.. HP for survival isnt realy an issue even.

I'm assuming that means trollabne is better than Legacy? I think I'm reading this right...
What about the new hunter axe in season 3?
On the same page, how does the new heroic badge cape Dory's Embrace compare to the other badge cape, Blood Knight's war cloak? And compared to Sergearnt's heavy cloak?

The new hunter axe, and both pvp capes offer zero agility, and therefore are not attractive to survival hunters in 25-man raids.

I have to agree with this, stick with [Blood Knight War Cloak]

As for the axes, [Trollbane] vs [Legacy]... even ungemmed, Trollbane is slightly better than Legacy. Now, my advice would be to add 2[Design: Delicate Living Ruby], ignoring the socket bonus, and get another 35 agility on it. However, if you need to fulfill the prerequisites for a [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond], these should take priority over living rubies.

My guild farms Kara and Gruul, and while we wait for some of our members to get geared enough for SSC, I've been running Arena a bit. So far I've found S2 chest and shoulders to be great upgrades to my Raiding armor set, but I'm curious about the helm.

My armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

Armory's been flaky lately, but I have both T4 and Engineering Helm's. It seems that the S3 helm would be my best upgrade, out of all of the Arena items. I was all set to buy the S3 axe, for purely Arena use, but it seems the S3 helm would be a great PVP and Raid item. Am I on the right track?

I've had very good success with 0/28/33, coming in very close to my guild's BM hunters on Gruul. We have a pally who keeps up JoW full time, so mana is not an issue at all - we absolutely love Ret and Prot Pallys!

I've been using the following shot rotation macro:

/castsequence reset=5 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

For some reason, KC seemed to cause my macro to hang - other Hunters in my guild had the same issue, so after we removed it from our respective macro's, they seemed to work as normal.

My macro question is this: Since I'm literally swimming in mana, I'd like to add Multishot to my rotation. I have 4/5 Improved Arcane Shot, and I'm not sure how to optimally insert a Multishot into my macro. If I understand castsequence correctly, that is the number of seconds the macro will take to reset, and start from the beginning. If I added a second auto/steady/arcane sequence, would that be enough time for my Multishot cooldown to be up? Would a /castsequence=8 or 9 be more appropriate?

Hope my questions have not been answered before, I did search a bit, but always get sidetracked reading some informative post on another topic!

To include multi you can use it in place of any steady shot or in place of arcane in every second 2:3 rotation.
Reset timer if you include multi should be at least 10, because that is CD time for it.
Sample rotation:
/castsequence reset=10 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot

This is pretty much wrong other than the sequence.

The reset timer isn't a timer on the whole macro, it resets if you don't cast any of the abilities in that time. Ten seconds is an extremely long timer and unnecessary. In a 1:1.5 rotation you have a couple options for a shot rotation, but none of the good ones involve replacing a steady shot with a multi-shot.

If you use multi-shot in your rotation, you don't need to spec into Imp. Arcane Shot. Your points would be better spent on Barrage.

QFT. The point of the 4/5 iAS build is to time your 1:1.5 SS/AS macro so that its perfect down to a few milliseconds without using multishot. If you are going to use multishot anyway then you have 8 seconds or so between arcaneshots so a reduced cooldown is not necessary. That means you never need to change your macro for CC fights to avoid breaking sheep and you have better mana efficiency for single target dps. Also I'd say that the macro given in post 597 would be better if it started with steadyshot, generally it gives a better tighter rotation. To be honest you're better just not using multishot and sticking to the 5 shot 1:1.5 macro.

• It does equal or more dps (from personal expirience and others that have posted WWS).
• Has better mana efficiency.
• Is a generally shorter macro which means you can complete a full rotation in less time allowing more mobility.

I used to use a full multishot, arcane, steady, auto macro but since I've used this I can't think why anyone would do it any other way.

I've edited post #17 in this thread to make a list of available gear.
http://elitistjerks.com/368534-post17.html

Seemed a better idea than posting a new reply, and not being able to find it again 4 weeks later. Enjoy.

After some extensive work with Cheeky's Spreadsheet, the S3 Helm gave me the most bang for my Arena point buck, so to speak, that will be my first upgrade.

For a DPS-per-Arena Point ratio, the S3 Bow was exactly as good as the S3 Helm, just takes twice the points - and a 1850 Raiting. The ZA Bow actually came out on top, even over the S3 bow, so I will track my guild's progression in ZA - if the ZA bow is in reach, I'll find other places to spend my Arena points.

Oddly enough, the S3 pants and gloves were downgrades in DPS, based on the spreadsheet. The S3 Chest and Shoulders were upgrades, but I doubt my casual team will earn a 2K ranking anytime soon.

Glad to know I can stick with my 1:1.5 shot rotation. I had worried that I was leaving DPS on the table, since I was finishing Gruul with quite a bit of mana on my bar - I may just cast Mend Pet more often, instead of having my pet at 50-75% health, and risking an early death from a cave-in.

Thanks for the help all!