Usually i use the 1:1,5 rotation with AS/MS.

In my last 2 raids i have been trying the 2:1 rotation with the following macro:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

What i noticed however was that my FPS would drop immensely when using this macro and also my UI freezes as soon as the target i am DPS-ing dies and it unfreezes when i stop spamming the macro. Therefore i feel that i can't test this rotation to it's full potential compared to my old rotation. Does anyone have similar problems and perhaps a solution for it?

Post 17 : http://elitistjerks.com/368534-post17.html
Has been expanded with a number of sunwell items.

If there are any new findings please post them in this thread. (If i don't respond, PM)

I haven't had any FPS issues, but after boss fights my client does lock up. I never really thought it was the macro but I guess it could be.

You are permanently hiding the UIErrorFrame which is also responsible for showing quest progress and other stuff beside error messages.
That "might" be the cause for the problem you describe or at least hide possible information for what is causing it (since you don't see any errors).

Try adding "/script UIErrorsFrame:Show()" after the error frame clearing or just remove the "/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()" line.

My macro actually does have the "UIErrorsFrame:Show()" in it(see below). And I'm still having the problem. I guess I can try it without the "Hide" feature, but I don't know what I would consider worse: lagging after a boss for a few seconds, or watching "Can't do that yet" errors spam my screen all night.

The remark about the UIErrorFrame was mostly directed @ Baelrah.
Lag after a boss kill is probably just your damage meter syncronizing I'd guess.

Is the macro bound to your mouse wheel? I have seen this behavior when bound to a mouse wheel that had its update rate set too aggressively. Slowing down the scroll speed corrected that. Basically if you hear a very light rapid fire sound when you roll it thats whats happening. If not, no idea. I do have the brief hang after a boss kill and I do not have ui errors show on. Not a big deal on that one.

I have been using something similar to this except I had to change the /cast steady shot to a /castrandom or /castsequence to keep it from chaining up to 4 steadys in a row at times. Has this been fixed very recently? The last time I tested it was a week or so ago.

Recently respecced from 0/20/41 to 0/24/37 with 5/5 IAS after reading this thread.

Macro I currently use:
After downloading v43 of Cheeky's spreadsheet I was playing with the new Shot Rotation tab and got a 70dps increase by changing the macro option from castsequence to spam. This got my attention ;-)

So I'm looking for input on the 1:1x spam macros including Arcane shot below:

or

Which will work to properly model the 1:1x spam macro numbers I am seeing on Cheeky's spreadsheet?

Afaik dropthrough macros dont work. Yours would exit every time arcane shot is on cooldown. This is what people typically do for a spam macro that includes arcane shot:

I actually did higher DPS with this macro as survival hunter. Only speed increase i have on the weapon is the "Smuggler's Ammo Pouch" and IAotH (it didn't proc though). I removed the pet attacks from the macro because i tested it on Dr. Boom. Without using multishot i had a average DPS of 900-950. Using the Wolfslayer rifle. I would imagine it will be somewhat higher in raids, fully buffed and pots/food. My crit rate is 34.57% unbuffed.

Would you say this is the best macro for Survival hunters?

Hello all.

After raiding as BM 41/20/0 for a while, I respecced back to SV.

Since I've gotten so used to the 1:1 BM rotation with my BBL I've been re-evaluating the 1:1,5 SV rotation I've been used to (especially since the 2:1 and 3:2 rotations started popping up).

The thing that is messing me up a bit currently is that I can't get a good comparison of 1:1,5 (with multi) and 3:2/2:1 since the multi's on the Dr. Boom's bombs screw over the results of any tests I do.

Since there are a lot of people here who've most likely run all these tests already, I'm asking here for confirmation on the following points:

* With a 3.0 weapon, (Bristlebritz striker) it seems to me that the 'old' 1:1,5 (with multi) rotation gives the best dps unhasted. I use a !auto/steady macro and weave in arcane and multi manually. Is this assumption correct?
(with rapidfire or other haste effects I can easily fall back to 1:1 with this setup)
* Is it worth speccing 5 points in imp. arcane shot to be able to keep up a 1:1,5 with arcanes only for dps with lots of CC around?
* Does a 1:1,5 (with improved arcanes only) make the Talon of Al'ar trinket actually viable, since the buff will be up 100% of the time?

Some other observations:

I've been toying a bit with the 'new' spam macro (/cast !auto shot /cast steady shot instead of the castsequence). With my 3.0 weapon it seems to give a straight 2:1 rotation (2 steady's, then auto). In raids with some fps issues/latency it seems to almost completely lock out the auto-shots. I've editted it into "/cast !auto shot /castsequence Steady Shot" which seems to help in the tests, haven't tested it in raids though.

Seems to me that hunter dps mechanics have become incredibly complicated lately

armory profile for completeness: The World of Warcraft Armory

just a general comment on this, the fact that Dr. Boom tests have multishot hitting multiple targets shouldn't be that problematic. Either divide the number of multishots by 3 to find out how many you fired or (more reliably) just filter out all the shots whose target isn't Dr. Boom - WWS can do that, or you can do it manually with grep or even an MSWord search&replace. That'll let you get a count of how many of each special you fired during a test, just multiply by your average damage on a boss for each special, and you'll get damage done.

Now a question: how large of a constraint is mana on a survival hunter's DPS without a shadowpriest? I'm trying to work out why a 3/3 TotH hunter I know is doing poorly on DPS, and it looks like he's never mana potting, so I'm guessing he's spending every fight in Viper. His rotations seem to be approximately 1:1.5. He also doesn't appear to be using a pet at all on any fight that has aoe damage (gorefiend/ros/rage/anetheron) which seems an all-around bad idea. His gear is half t6 level and half t5 level so while I wouldn't expect amazing personal dps, just-above-the-MT damage seems below potential as well.

I'll be digging through the survival thread over lunch to see if this is expected behaviour (I haven't been LR since pre-c'thun, so I haven't been keeping up with this thread ), but my first impulse is to send him a huge "you're doing it wrong!" card.

Fel mana is my lifeline. Full-burn 1:1.5 (with 1:1 during rapid fire) with chain Fel Mana means I switch on Viper about 6 minutes into a fight, when mana dwindles to the ~20% range (I have about 7k mana with Kings, Gift, and Brilliance). If the fight is 10 minutes, that probably means 3 minutes in Viper, then back to Hawk for the last minute, ending the fight totally dry. This is with 5/5 efficiency, 2/3 TotH, and 2x superior mana oil. My last pot is often a super mana, to save gold, if it will occur during the last minute of a fight.

Using no pots, there would be no way to sustain 1:1.5 for longer than a few minutes, except perhaps Mark of Conquest or gearing for massive intellect.

Your just-above-the-MT friend needs to stop raiding until he can afford to bring multiple stacks of fel mana to each raid.

Hi people,
Is there any specific hunter spec. for kaeltas encouter?
Thanks,

Maybe Kevkiller's

I agree with QuiggyB. 0/20/41 is a good spec for Kael with 3/3 EW and 5/5 MT and Readiness for multiple reasons:
1) Gives good DPS with the scaling of the bow
2) We only have 3 raiding hunters and usually only 2 in the raid. So Readiness is useful not only for the extra Rapid Fires but also for the extra MD to get the bosses to their tanks awaiting for them in their respective tank spots to help facilitate the battle. I MD Sang to a tank, the other hunter MDs Cap to the lock tank, and then I MD Tele to his tank. Usually 2 mins haven't elapsed by when I need to MD to the tele tank, so I use Readiness to get that MD off on time. It is also useful for getting extra MDs off on the maikn tank during Gravity Lapses to help ensure that he is still top in threat when the GL ends.
3) Max EW uptime and average AP proc value is useful for getting through the fight faster. Although I am a ranged attacker, I go to all of the melee DPS targets instead of the ranged DPS targets since that is where most of our physical DPS is at.

Concerning my pet, since unlike BMs who get a 2% damage bonus when their pet is around and can rez their pets quick, I dismiss my pet during phases 1 through 3, to make sure that it is alive in phases 4 and 5 to help get Kael and the barriers down a little faster. In Phase 1 and 3, my pet (ravager) can only be used on Sang and Tele, and really is not needed for them. Several of the weapons will also kill my pet as well, so I do not use it in phase 2 either.

A couple of comments. I know that 3/3 TotH is very useful for mana and keeping up personal DPS, but I think that having 3/3 EW (with 2/3 TotH) is more effective. I only have 2/3 ranks in TotH and none in Efficiency so that I can improve my raid contribution with 3/3 EW and 5/5 IHM.

To make up for this loss of mana regen and to limit the time with AoV up (although I do use it in certain "quiet" phases of fights (such as Vashj phase 1 after usinig my first mana pot) to help ensure full mana entering "max DPS" phases), I use mana oils on both weapons. I usually have a shaman in my group to drop GoA and SoE (for pet and melee DPS in group) to maximum my personal DPS and EW proc. The shaman also drops mana spring that along with BoW means that I only have to use a couple pots in a long battle. However, without a shaman, I need to basically chain pots and also possibly use a mageblood potion if its a really long fight or one that requires extra specials like Scorpid.

One thing to consider beyond poor playing of the hunter is what buffs he is receiving. His personal DPS and EW proc will both suffer if not getting the right buffs. Ideally, a Survivial hunter should have a druid with LotP for that extra 5% crit and a shaman with GoA for that extra ~112 agi if fully improved totem. Also Kings is by far the most important pally buff for Survival hunters with Wisdom and Might switching 2nd place depending on the battle and mana needs. A hunter, especially one with Readiness and extra chances to FD, should not be getting Salv in place of any of the other 3 pally buffs listed (except in rare situations) since they should be able to properly manage their threat with proper use of MD and FD. If a hunter is routinely pulling aggro, putting Salv on them when you have less than 4 pallies in the raid is not the best answer. Teaching them how to properly manage their threat is.

Regardless of the buffs, the Survival hunter should be well above the MT in damage. When ideally buffed and with the right spec, gear, and rotation, they should and can often be in the top 5.

I agree here with Whitefyst but I chose to go 3/3 TotH and 2/3 EW. EW uptime is still around 90% (as modeled by the spreadsheet) and I find I almost never use viper but this is of course dependent upon the fight. Typically I'm in the worthless outcast group which consists of a BM Hunter and 3 warlocks. Chain potting is necessary for most fights so if your hunter is not doing so you better yell loudly at him

Another great option for hunter mana is throwing up a JoW which basically ensures that you will never run out of mana. We usually raid with a ret pally which means JoW is up on several fights, the mana return is incredible. However for those fights without a JoW I feel that 3/3 TotH is necessary right now to maintain good personal dps in my situation. My gear is fairly weak (lots of pvp gear) so I'm considering going 2/3 Toth and 3/3 EW once I get some better items. Although even this is debatable because 3/3 TotH may allow me to wear more leather and when i look at the
Sunwell gear i dont see much mail that is very good but i see a lot of sexy leather pieces.

For 5/5 IHM our GM has made one of the BM hunters get that which I feel is the way to go since they are more mana efficient, they can better withstand the loss of Efficiency.

As far as DPS, I am a consistent finisher in the top 5... I usually am #1 on Azgalor and in our first Gorefiend kill I was #2 behind an insane rogue.

For different situations and different folks, obviously different choices are better. Since I am the hunter that is almost always present in our raids and our 2 BM hunters are absent a fair amount, it made sense for me to have IHM instead of Efficiency. However, I do agree that it makes more sense in general for the BM hunters to have the skill instead.

Also, I would definitely love to have 3/3 TotH, but with my average EW proc nearing 300 AP when fully raid buffed, that 10% loss in "ideal" uptime results in roughly 30 AP loss in EW proc. This is roughly a loss of 72 raid DPS. The effect of 3/3 in EW is even more important in battles where we are moving around a lot and the uptime is lower for all ranks in the skill. Since I have other mechanisms available to manage my mana, I chose to maximize my EW proc with my takents, and that was also a strong suggestion from guild leaders.

I am also usually in the top 5 in DPS in our raids, with only the rogues consistently beating me (one of our BM hunters has recently gotten better geared and is starting to beat me a fair amount as well). Although there are some rare occasions where I do end up #1, with it occurring most on Fanthom Lord. The battles where I do not end up in the top 5 are usually the AoE heavy battles where I do not participate in the AoE much.

It is impressive how well you are performing in the outcast group. I am curious to see how much better you would perform if placed in an ideal group.

Hence, Survival hunters can be competitve.

Hey all, first time posting here.

Little background: I've played WoW since closed beta and been playing a hunter since they first came out in closed beta. Through this time I've always been a survival hybrid spec.

So, I've read up to about page 40 on here. I've tried to get all the gear needed and a good dps spec, but I'm having a bit of a problem with my dps.

WWS from our last raid: Wow Web Stats

Our guild is currently on vashj and kael (currently working on vashj). We're a casual guild, raids 2 nights a week.

For some reason my dps is at 737. I'm relatively high on the dps meters even though my straight dps is pretty low. Fully raid buffed (including GoA, warp burgers, major agi pots etc... my agi is up to 1049.

Now, any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? Is my gear bad? I'm trying to get the 1:1.5 shot rotation down and it seemed like I did until this last raid.

Thanks in advance.

Just looking at the WWS a few quick comments... Your ratio of autos-steadies does not seem optimal. Ideally you will fire off as many steadies as you do autos. On the Solorian kill you have 68 autos to only 45 steadies. Total you did 91 specials to 68 Autos. I realize that fights which require movement will throw these numbers off. (also you should use snake trap on Solorian to help healers out because she will target the snakes with her arcane missiles) Your pet also did not seem to be using Gore or Bite, did you have them turned off?

On the VR Kill your rotation is much closer to 1:1 than 1:1.5, you have 113 specials to 106 Autos but this is expected due to the nature of the VR fight. Again your pet is not using gore/bite. I'm guessing your not talented into GftT which you should be as it is a significant dps increase. A misconception about survival is that you do not need your pet which is false, it provides a big boost to your dps and you should keep it alive if at all possible.

Much of your gear you can upgrade outside of 25 mans, use Cheeky's spreadsheet in the Hunter spreadsheets in development thread to find applicable gear upgrades. Also use the best enchants/gems possible in your gear, ignore socket bonuses and use +8 agility, only have 2 yellow and 2 blue gems to meet your meta requirement. PM me if you need a list of upgrades but this thread is full of similar questions about gear and upgrade lists so I don't need to waste space posting another one.

Get an arena team if you don't have one... a lot of the PVP gear is superior and easier to get than PVE gear. S3 Helm > T6 Helm, enough said.

I just checked my old guild's first VR kill and I pulled 745 DPS with zero gear from 25 mans and using a scorpid pet on a boss that is immune to poisons. VR is a terrible fight for survival for what its worth.