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02/28/08, 1:41 PM
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#1152 | |
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Von Kaiser
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@Darkstryder- I hope that 1215 raid buffed agi includes totems, because otherwise I get the feeling you'll be dropping too many useful stats to reach it... |
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02/28/08, 2:18 PM
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#1154 | |
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GW2 or Bust
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02/28/08, 3:09 PM
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#1156 | |
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Von Kaiser
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02/28/08, 8:53 PM
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#1157 |
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Glass Joe
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Hey there fellow Survivalists!
My main, Grynn on Darrowmere, has been raiding for about 2-3 months now. We've got Gruul on farm, and we're starting to move into SSC. Two weeks ago we downed Loot Reaver for the first time I have ~830 agi unbuffed (ignore my eng helm on armory, I have the t4 helm). In terms of gear, the one thing I'm missing before we push into new content is the ZA Pauldrons of Primal Fury - Items - World of Warcraft . There was point in time when we were in the middle of doing Kara that I was topping the dps charts. Now, unfortunately, I've been pushed down to the 5-7th position regularly (usually 1st for the physical dps dealers). Part of this I think is due to the gearing up of our guild's spellcasters, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm using the wrong shot rotation. I've been using Bladefist's Breadth - Items - World of Warcraft and Bloodlust Brooch - Items - World of Warcraft for trinkets primarily, though I recently got Dragonspine Trophy - Items - World of Warcraft . For pushing the extra dps, I tend to hit rapid fire, brooch.... wait for cds.... bladefist breadth... hit readiness when brooch cd is up then rapid fire and brooch... I've alternated the trophy and brooch, and I seem to get better dps with the brooch. I'm also looking at getting Badge of Tenacity - Items - World of Warcraft and Mark of Conquest - Items - World of Warcraft (to help with mana problems) , and try em out. So my dilemna: I'm wondering if I'm pushing too much haste for a regular shot rotation. Is there one that works for me? Should I respec into ImAotH, or Imp Arcane Shots? Any other suggestions? What trinket combo works best for you guys? I've yet to do some testing on Dr. Boom, I see. PS: how do ya do those direct links to items? |
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02/29/08, 1:06 PM
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#1159 | |
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Von Kaiser
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02/29/08, 1:08 PM
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#1160 | |
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Banned
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Asirius- A couple comments on gear. You mention a t4 helm, generally t4 is crap for survival, make the engineering one with the agi on it way better than any drops you can currently get. Spend the money on 8agi gems, unfortunately the price has skyrocketed on those. What are you doing with your arena points? The arena gear has great itemization for Survival. If you are farming ZA try and get the timed ones down for Trollbane. I spec into arcane shot so that it fits into my rotation every other steady. Depending on your crit rate you may be better off getting 5/5 MT. |
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02/29/08, 4:41 PM
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#1161 | |
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Von Kaiser
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A 0/20/41 build has been analyzed on these forums and all evidence points that is superior to an Improved Arcane Shot build. |
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02/29/08, 6:52 PM
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#1162 | |
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King Hippo
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Concerning your character, I have a few suggestions with realizing that there are many ways to skin a cat and be successful and that one size does not fit all. Take or reject these as you choose: 1) Your mana is way low by about 2K. Are you having mana problems in long boss fights? If not, what are you doing to keep up your mana levels. I would suggest replacing some of that leather with mail pieces with some int. There is nothing wrong with wearing a little leather, but wearing too much of it can actually hurt your DPS if you are going OOM a lot or having to use AoV too much or use a lesser shot rotation. In addition, that much leather reduces your armor, and therefore, your survivability a lot too. 2) The [Dagger of Bad Mojo] are awesome DPS weapons, but note that they have no stamina on them. With your character being a little low on health, I would suggest using a weapon with some stamina on them until you can get your health higher. Since you are entering TK soon, considering [Netherbane] instead as a comparable option - a little less DPS but more EW AP and a lot more health. 3) As someone else suggested, look into arena gear. The s2 shoulders and s3 pieces would mostly be very nice upgrades for you. 4) Also look at Badges of Justice pieces. I see that you have the cloak and the trinket, but there are other good pieces too. 5) Also, consider more balance in gear. As comparison, you have very good agility - only about 100 less than me, but your AP and crit rate are relatively low, about 400 and 7% less. Agility gear is good and a priority in order to increase our DPS and EW proc, but sometimes the gear with the most agility does not improve our overall raid DPS contribution the most. Use Cheeky's spreadsheet to analyze gear options and to make tradeoffs. I look at my DPS and EW proc change between two items and determine my over raid contribution difference to make my decisions. This imbalance is possibly hurting your DPS some. 6) Your goggles currently do not have a meta gem. Suggest the [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]. 7) Concerning spec (which I prefer the 0/20/41), a must in my opinion is 5/5 Mortal Shots. Not having that greatly reduces DPS. Only having 2 ranks in it reduces my DPS by 62. To get to 5/5, I would suggest dropping at least 1 point in Trap Mastery. Previous posts show that you only need 1 point to be able to trap everything that is trapable. The second point is ineffective. With losing that point, you no longer have enough points at that level. To fix that, I would move the point in Resourcefulness since you shouldn't be using traps that much in 25 mans - or at least not for crowd control, making the cooldown and mana cost savings not too worthwhile, into Survivalist to help your health levels. (Personally, I would move the other point in Trap Mastery into Survivalist too). Next, although I am a fan of Wyvern Sting, especially for soloing and PvP, it really doesn't fit a raid build since the stings provide poor damage per mana. Suggest moving this point into Mortal Shots as well. Finally, as soon as you have sufficient mana, consider moving the 3 point in TotH to complete Mortal Shots. |
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02/29/08, 9:07 PM
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#1163 | |
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Great Tiger
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To Asirius:
I'm not sure how the engineering goggle recipes are acquired, but I'd suggest [Deathblow X11 Goggles] instead of the tier 4 or the mail version of the goggles if it's reasonable to obtain the pattern. As suggested before, try getting a [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] in that meta socket, it's just that good. You will need at least 2 yellow and 2 blue gems to unlock the prerequisites for the meta, though. Where you socket them is up to you; the fastest, but not necessarily best way is to get 2x[Jagged Talasite], and save more slots for rubies. But if you use 2x[Shifting Nightseye] AND 2 of either[Glinting Noble Topaz],[Rigid Dawnstone] or [Smooth Dawnstone], you can probably unlock some helpful set bonuses along the way and get a bit more stats than 2 green gems would grant you. The necklace is quite good, despite the blue quality, and, apparently, the one and only upgrade to it is the necklace from the drop off Kael'Thas ([Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem]). Before you get that, It's worth investing 2 Living Rubies in your necklace. Also, don't even think of raiding without 20 points in Marksmanship (for 5/5 Mortal Shots). The extra damage on critical adds up to quite a lot during a raid encounter. Also, you're never EVER going to need more than 1 point in Trap Mastery. Entrapment is quite nice to have around, even on a raid spec, for those 'oh shit!' moments, if you ask me. Personally, I'd suggest something like this spec , if you really want Readiness, but basically, it's your survival tree, and you adjust it to what you feel like suits you most, in the end. However, again, I can't stress enough how much of a difference 5/5 Mortal Shots makes to your sustained dps; you're really going to have to go for 20 in Marksmanship, regardless of your main talent tree, which only leaves you with only 41 points for Survival. However, seeing as you said you're the 5th or so spot on the meters, and the first of the physical damage dealers, I'd say Expose weakness is pretty much wasted on your raid. It's still a nice perk to have for yourself and your pet, at least, but 2/3 should be enough Also, keeping that in mind, you can lower the priority on agility by a little, and broaden your range of upgrades. Also, if you don't really like the DST, upgrade the [Bladefist's Breadth] to an [Hourglass of the Unraveller] or [Tsunami Talisman] and keep Bloodlust and one of those. Your mana issues should fix themselves when you start getting tier 5 gear, which have decent mp5 and intellect on them; or, whenever you manage to find a mail upgrade to your current leather gear (you're really losing a lot of intellect on those). Also, 2xNetherbanes or Daggers of Bad Mojo, or whatever else you can dual wield helps with the mana regeneration, as Vasilii said. Finally, get rid of the [Clefthide Leg Armor] and +6 agi gems from your leggings, replace it with [Pattern: Cobrahide Leg Armor], or the epic [Pattern: Nethercobra Leg Armor] version. Ditch the low level chest, as well; and fast. If you're unlucky with drops, pay some 40ish gold for a [Breastplate of Rapid Striking] from the AH if need be, you're going to get a lot more dps out of that. EDIT: You're still short of the hit cap, try to fix that, unless the tier 4 helm changes anything Last edited by Enova : 02/29/08 at 9:14 PM. |
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03/04/08, 6:49 PM
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#1166 |
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Von Kaiser
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03/05/08, 11:46 AM
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#1167 |
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Piston Honda
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03/05/08, 12:21 PM
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#1168 | |
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Von Kaiser
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I have a great respect for Zek and learned a ton from him when I first started coming to these forums, he posted this a while back and it might be a nice start to a comprehensive survival guide, check post #72 on this pageZek post |
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03/05/08, 8:23 PM
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#1169 | |
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King Hippo
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Concerning a loss of 150 DPS from the ideal in the spreadsheet, this can be a realistic drop from the ideal due to many circumstances, including: - The nature of the fights: If you are switching between targets a lot, being interrupted during casts, having to move around alot, etc. your DPS will suffer, sometimes signficantly, from the ideal in the spreadsheet. Pile several of these factors on top of each other, and the effect is even more dramatic. Thus, if you see this drop only in "chaotic" fights with a lot going on, I would not be too worried about it. But if you see it in a pretty simple stand and shoot fight, then you need to investigate other reasons - Modeling of the target: If you did not properly model the targets you are against in the spreadsheet, then you will get unreasonable results. For instance, with keeping everything constant in the spreadsheet, I do 1337 DPS against a custom level 73 target with 7700 armor. Changing it to a level 70 target with the same armor, my DPS goes up by 28. Changing it the other way to be Illidian, I do only 1204 for a 133 drop from initial custom target. If I do Archimonde, I get 1444 DPS. As can be seen, your DPS can drastically change depending on the target, and not only from trash to boss, but even dramactically amongst the bosses. - Having to do more than the shots in your rotation: The spreadsheet rotation provides your DPS for only doing the rotation. It does not factor in other actions that you make, such as casting MD, FDing, refreshing HM, casting Scorpid, dropping a trap, using a trinket or drums, using rapid fire, using a pot, etc. Unless you have a very loose rotation that will allow this action without throwing off your rotation since you have plenty of dead space (which you shouldn't have if using a good rotation), then doing these actions will affect your DPS relative to that predicted in the spreadsheet. Many of these actions are important to the success of the fight and have to be done with the corresponding loss of DPS. The key though is how you are performing these actions and to make sure to do them at the proper times to minimize clipping of your auto shots and to minimize the impact to your rotation and DPS. Some short duration actions may be able to be inserted into small dead areas in the rotation with little to no impact, but if you make those same actions at the wrong place, they can have drastic impacts on your rotation. Other items may need to substitute a special in your rotation to properly keep the rotation going smoothly and tight. If you are instead forcing them into your rotation without substitution, you can see big DPS losses. - Not executing your rotation properly: Obviously, even when just doing the shots in your rotation, if you do not execute it properly, you will see a DPS loss. In addition, if you are properly performing your rotation but are not modeling it correctly in the spreadsheet, you will not match it and could be setting unreasonable expectations for yourself. This includes properly changing your rotation during periods of temporary haste to properly utilize the haste. Some rotations will actually provide less DPS if maintained exactly as is during high haste periods due to specials clipping auto shots. - Not receiving the buffs used in the spreadsheet: Obviously, if you are not receiving the buffs that you modeled in the spreaadsheet or even if you are receiving lesser forms of the buffs, your DPS will be suffer relative to expected. If some of the buffs are totems and the totems are not being refreshed immediately or you are moving out of the area of affect, then your DPS wil not be as expected. If you modeled the DPS with AoH, then any time with using AoV or any other aspect will not provide expected results. These are just a few of the factors that can cause differences between your actual and predicted performances. I am sure if I spend more time, I could think of a few more to list and that others may have additional ones too. Without additional information from you, I really cannot provide much more assistance. However, I do hope that what I provided may help you model your character in the spreadsheet better to provide more reasonable expectations as well as hopefully perform a little better if you are not already properly accounting for some of the factors listed. I will agree though that unless you are fighting a "tough" boss and doing a lot of extra actions, that 855-895 DPS seems a little low. Just looking at the gear you have, it appears that you and your guild have definitely progressed farther than me and mine. However, I was a little surprised that I actually had some better survival DPS stats (comparing tooltip stats with same buffs as on your armory) in some key stats as shown below with me listed first: Agility: 914 to 752 AP: 2410 to 2224 Crit: 36.49% to 37.18% (I realize that other stats not listed here such as armor ignore, set bonus, and pet enhancing abilities also affect DPS.) Now I realize that the gear someone has is not always ideal since it depends on what drops when you are in the raid and whether you can win what you really want. I also realize that sometimes you have to take a less ideal option since it is what is available. With that said, you do have some items that are not well suited for optimal survival spec - for both personal DPS and EW proc. These are mostly items without agility, which are the key reasons my agility and AP are higher. Although I agree that agility should not be taken blindly where you loss other good stats just to improve a couple points of agility, agility is still a survival hunter's number 1 stat since it results in more crit, AP, armor, dodge, and EW proc and since it scales with LR and BoK, resulting in even more of the derived stats. Some of the items I would suggest improving on to get more DPS are (I realize that some of these are probably HR compromises due to the inadequacy of good T6 hit gear until 2.4 comes out): - [Choker of Serrated Blades]: As far as DPS goes and getting some agility, [Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem] from Kael is a superior neck, but the trouble is that you have to win it off Kael, who your guild is probably not doing much anymore. The good news is that you do not need the neck from Kael, and can get an even better upgrade by having a JC craft you [Necklace of the Deep]. Even with just 2 +8 agi gems in it, this item increases your agility by 47 when buffed with BoK. Although the personal DPS between these two items may be about the same, [Necklace of the Deep] increases the EW proc by about 12 on my char, for about 29 more raid DPS. It also has a little HR for its socket bonus. - [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape]: Once again, this item does not have any agility on it. The best cloak for a survival hunter is [Thalassian Wildercloak]. Infortunately, that is from Kael, and guilds usually do not kill him enough for many people to get the cape. However, there are other good options out there for survival hunters. If you do not need the hit, [Blood Knight War Cloak], which can be bought with badges is one of them. That's 29 more agility. On my character, the badge cloak is a slight 1.5 DPS loss, but my EW proc is 9.5 AP better, for an overall raid improvement of about 20 DPS. If you need hit, I understand using this cape instead, but I would prefer the [Drape of the Dark Reavers] since it provides 30 more AP. Although on my char, it is about 4 personal DPS less, it provides about 10 AP more on EW, for once again about 20 DPS raid gain. - [Vengeful Gladiator's Waraxe]: Not only does this item have no agility, there are myriads of options that provide both better DPS and better EW proc for significant personal and raid DPS increases. I am currently using 2 [Netherbane]s, which are by no means the best survival hunter weapons. However, they do 9 more personal DPS and 17 more AP on EW proc for an overall raid DPS gain of about 50. Now, I realize that you are probably using it to get hit capped, but you would be better served to chose better melee stat weapons and getting your hit rating up by other methods including regemming. For instance, you are already 4 HR above the cap. If you replaced the axe with something more suitable for a survival hunter, you would only be 11 HR below the cap. If you replaced a gem (probably your 10 crit one works best) with either a +8 or +10 HR one, you would be close enough to the cap with great improvements in over raid DPS. if you get [Necklace of the Deep] too, you would be back over the cap either way. There are also many available upgrades from T5 and T6 areas for the boots as well. Just some things to consider that may hopefully be helpful. |
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03/05/08, 9:39 PM
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#1170 | |
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Great Tiger
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Do you reset the meters before every fight? If it's for a whole night of raiding, the figures aren't really unreasonable... you slack a bit, you may switch targets fast and not gain any benefit from Hunter's mark, the target can die before the pet gets to it; that sort of stuff is simply hunter unfriendly. Ideally, a report for a stationary, 4 minutes or longer encounter like Rage or Naj'entus alone would give you a good idea of the gap between spreadsheets and the game. Now, assuming you're using the ideal benchmark, there's also a matter of where you get your data. Some meters use the damage done/total time, some use damage done/time in combat, and some use damage done/time doing damage (for instance, if you're kiting Supremus, you're in combat, but you're not doing damage). Ideally, a WWS would be useful to see. Recount figures are also quite accurate for yourself, and very accurate for the whole raid, if you also run SWS and recieve sync from it. So, on a pure tank and spank fight with little movement, I'd estimate you should be doing around 1000 dps easily, if it drags on for a few minutes. So what's stopping you? Well, there could be a number of situations, and this may not be news to you, but there's no way I could tell without a WWS: *you may not be using your pet; or, you may be using it but it keeps getting killed; or you pull it out for healing too often. If you're having pet survivability trouble, 2/5 tier 5 is the way to go Also, if this happens, you may have forgotten to train avoidance or resistances? *are you using a wind serpent, by any chance? if you are, Lightning Breath should really be put on a macro (I'm not exactly a fan of macros, but this is really where you need to use one) the default behavior when you have LB set on autocast is to move out of melee to cast it and back in melee afterwards, completely skipping regular attacks and any bite attacks the pet may squeeze in; if you'd manually command it every time it's up, this doesn't occur; if you use a macro, it yields the same results as manually commanding it, but without having to spam the ctrl + 4 or whatever hotkey it's up. *you may not be using the proper rotation, or you may be using it wrong. Ideally, you want a 1:1.5 with that spec and speed. Are you achieving this, or are you skipping shots? More importantly, are you using macros to time your rotation? Macros are quite a common source of dps drain; it could have a too complex shot sequence, or it could be missing something; also, it could jam at some point in the sequence. You can try going manual, or you can try a simpler macro just to stop you from skipping autoshots, and time the arcane/multi manually. On that note, how do you manage the Dragonspine procs? That's about all I can think of without some in game records, but there are also a few things I noticed on your armory: Firstly, your AP seems slightly low, but I blame that on the PVP axe and boots, the suboptimal (as in really bad) shoulders and the Kara belt; I'm sure you've planned upgrades you're waiting for, and it doesn't really make that much of a difference just yet. Secondly, you're standing at 37% crit pre BOK and LOTP, yet you've only got 2 points in Mortal shots; raidbuffed, during MT proc, 50% of your attacks would be crits, easily. You're losing a lot of damage on those criticals, and they add up. As the current hunter mechanics work, this is THE talent to maximize. Basically the reason why all builds are x/20+/x. I'd suggest skipping Imp Arcane shot entirely to maximize this and move the 2 remaining points to Rapid Killing in order not to get a freakish cooldown on Arcane Shot. On a 1:1.5 rotation, Arcane shot fits in quite nicely on a 6 second cooldown, and the 2 minutes off Rapid Fire grant you quite a bonus as well; Basically, it's the difference between using it once or twice during a 4 minute fight Oh, yeah, almost forgot... 1000 ms = 1 sec in the standard convention, so I'm pretty sure 120 ms is still 0.12 sec in Cheeky's spreadsheet, too EDIT: it'd be interesting to know what macros you're using and what rotation you aim to achieve, what pet do you usually raid with, and if you're in the habit of downranking shots for more mana efficiency. Last edited by Enova : 03/05/08 at 9:52 PM. |
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03/06/08, 4:57 AM
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#1171 |
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Glass Joe
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Hey guys my guild progression is:
3/4 TK 5/6 SSC 6/6 ZA 2/2 World Bosses 2/2 Gruul 0/1 Mag Armory :  http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dethecus&n=Wispwisp I chose to put my 5 left over points into Barrage because i found MT to have diminishing returns because im at about 45% crit durring raids. I know I can take the point out of Wyrvenn sting and put it into Efficiency, but my mana is fine. These are my current stats: Self Buffed / Raid Buffed Agi = 874 / 1205 AP = 2218 / 2740 Crit = 34.48% / 48.63% Hit lvl 70 = 7.44% (for trash I use neck of the deep / t5 shoulders) Hit Boss = 8.77% (for boss I use worgen neck / ZA shoulders ) Gear I use now / Gear in Bank worth Mentioning / Next Planned Upgrade Head = [Vengeful Gladiator's Chain Helm] / [Coif of the Jungle Stalker] / T5 Neck = [Worgen Claw Necklace] / [Necklace of the Deep] / [Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem] Shoulder = [Pauldrons of Primal Fury] / T5 / T6 Back = [Blood Knight War Cloak] / None / [Thalassian Wildercloak] Chest = [Felstalker Breastplate] / [Arrow-fall Chestguard][Beast Lord Cuirass]S1 / [Ranger-General's Chestguard] Wrist = Vindicators / [Master Assassin Wristwraps][Bands of the Celestial Archer] / [Bracers of the Pathfinder] Gloves = [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation] / [Gauntlets of Sniping] / T6 Waist = [Belt of the Black Eagle] / Vindicators [Bladeangel's Money Belt] / [Don Alejandro's Money Belt] Legs = [Void Reaver Greaves] / None / [Bow-stitched Leggings] Feet = [Star-Strider Boots] / [Fiend Slayer Boots] / [Cobra-Lash Boots] Ring1 = [Garona's Signet Ring] / Vindicators / [Ring of Lethality] Ring2 = [Pathfinder's Band] / None / [Signet of Primal Wrath] Trink1 = [Hourglass of the Unraveller] / [Dragonspine Trophy] / [Tsunami Talisman] Trink2 = [Berserker's Call] / [Abacus of Violent Odds] / None Bow = [Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix] / None / [Serpent Spine Longbow] 2h = [Trollbane] / None / [Halberd of Desolation] Pet = Wind Serpent / Ravager, Scorpid / None My DPS ranges in SSC / TK anywhere from 1150-1300. Latency : 200-300ms I use (1:1.5) Manual Rotation Hasted: (1:1) Rotation #showtooltip Steady Shot /script UIErrorsFrame:Hide() /castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot /cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command /cast [target=pettarget, exists] Lightning Breath /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear() /script UIErrorsFrame:Show() I currently dominate the DPS meters in my guild. It's not uncommon to see me at about 1200 DPS / 12% dmg done on a lurker fight compared to our mages and melee at about 650-800 DPS / 6-9% dmg done. Basically what im saying is, very rarely am I #2 on the DPS charts, other than the obvious aoe fights like Solarian. (even then...) However, I still want to improve my game, because I know i can do better. Its not always about the meters though, that's why I picked Survival in the first place, otherwise I would still be BM. Judging from the meters I have a feeling I know what im doing, but I've come here to ask you guys for your advice, and some fine tuning. :P thx Last edited by wispwisp : 03/06/08 at 5:49 AM. |
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03/06/08, 12:04 PM
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#1172 | |||||||||||||||
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Von Kaiser
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Analysis of using KC has been done in this thread and it has been found to be a net decrease dps during the vast majority of fights. Some other general comments about gear: I'm not sure what loot system your guild uses but as survival I would actually recommend not taking any pieces of T5 gear, its easier to acquire the random pieces that less people want but provide higher overall DPS and much more agility for EW procs. T5 has a lot of hit rating a mp5, 2 stats which you can largely avoid as Survival. S3 Helm > T5 helm VR Greaves > T5 Legs RGC > T5 Chest Gauntlets of Sniping > T5 Gloves. Save your dkp up for the bow or the cross class trinkets/rings that everyone wants. Hope this helps! |
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03/06/08, 1:29 PM
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#1174 | |
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Von Kaiser
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I did not recommend bracers of the pathfinder over insidious bands, insidious are the best survival bracers currently in the game. He had the pathfinder bracers listed as the next upgrade over bands of the celestial archer which is correct. Insidious are not available until later in progression. Quickstrider are a big upgrade over cobra-lash, they provide a greater dps contribution as well as hit rating that cobra-lash lack. This is all according to cheeky's spreadsheet, 0/20/41 build, 1:1.5 rotation, 3.0 speed weapon, lvl 73 target 7700 armor. Edit: Missed the PS While Vindicator's boots are not a terrible option, really the choice would be between them and fiend slayer boots in which case I would value the fiend slayer as superior. I used fiend slayer all the way up until I grabbed Quickstrider because of lack of hunter drops from solorian/vashj. |
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03/06/08, 1:43 PM
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#1175 | |
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Great Tiger
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Right now, I can't even use my tier 6 gloves, because I'd fall way below the hit cap. You actually get into a situation where you need to get 2 massive slot upgrades to make use of either one (otherwise, one would be gimping your hit rating, the other one would be overkill). Technically, it's always best to be a bit over than a bit below. So, with that in mind, the bonus agility and hit rating on the rogue belt make more sense than the intellect and stamina you're trading off. Don Alejandro is the best so far, indeed, but then again, you may never see one drop for a long time. Now, the same thing can be said about Insidious Bands > Bracers of the Pathfinder; however, these are the best rogue bracers in the game, and it's quite unfair to get them over a rogue that doesn't have them; so, unless they drop like rain for you guys, this isn't exactly a realistic option. Hence, Pathfinder is the best available (emphasis on available) The belts, have no such restrictions, since the Deep Shadows one is craftable, and as such you could get one at any time you have the mats, and Don Alejandro is clearly below Deep Shadows for rogues as it is now. Keep in mind, we've been farming tier 5 for 7 months I think, and we still haven't seen the leather belt plans drop. Quickstrider over Cobra Lash is also a case of hit rating. You're losing some agility here, but again, it all comes down to not missing shots. Ideally, 2 of these, a halberd, and maybe a yellow gem or Tsunami talisman should be enough to cover the massive gap that switching tiers is going to cause. EDIT: If I may suggest, and this is actually Zek's idea, [Twinblade of the Phoenix], as a weapon upgrade, if you can still get it. In itself, it's not a very good survival weapon. But the really good part about it comes when you can also get your [Bow-Stitched Leggings]. Basically, if you gem both of these with 1x[Delicate Crimson Spinel], 1x[Glinting Pyrestone] and 1x[Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst], you've already fulfilled your RED prerequisites, you're getting 40 agility out of 6 sockets, and can now safely stick Delicate Spinels into everything else, for a significant agility boost. This may leave you just a bit below the hit cap, though, so make sure you got that covered first. If you get the Insidious bands, crafted leather belt and Quickstriders, you should be okay, though. Last edited by Enova : 03/06/08 at 6:09 PM. |
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