Needhamizer

Can you point me to a thread that would show this better? I realize its not the most efficient in damage per mana but the way I implement it I feel like it is free damage. I use it in my specials. The meat of my macro is as such-

/cast Kill Command
/cast Arcane shot

This happens with one button push.

On an similar note, does anyone know about the kill command bug where you can cast specials but you cannot cast auto shot until you get another kill command?

 

Whitefyst

I definitely do not think his gear is resulting in the 850 DPS, since even with that suboptimal gear he should be higher. I was just pointing out somethings I noticed while checking out his character that were seperate from his DPS issues.

I was in a rush to finish my reply since I had to leave, so I didn't have a chance to look at the spec myself and comment, but I agree with Enova in that 5/5 Mortal Shots is a must and how to remedy it. If you are doing a 1:1.5 Arcane only rotation with a macro, that is much more susceptible to problems and has much less benefits under haste. Plus, I prefer the arcane/multishot one rotation.

I also suggest 3/3 in EW instead of 3/3 TotH. It increases both yours and the raids DPS. I know that at high crit rates that it only results in 8-10% more uptime under ideal situations, but that 8-10% still equates to around 24-30 AP more on average EW proc (assuming around 1200 agi - which is around the goal) and roughly 72-90 raid DPS (with 10 physical DPS in raid including pets). If your buffed agility is only around 1000, this still equates to around 60-75 raid DPS. This is a significant amount, and this amount is difficult to obtain with 1 point in any other talent. Furthermore, this is the improvement under ideal, stand and fight situations. In less ideal situations, which as discussed in a earlier post is quite frequent, this 3rd point in EW increases your uptime even more with an even more improvement to your average EW proc than without it.

My final spec suggestion has to do with IHM and Efficiency in which you have 2/5 and 3/5. Having partial ranks in either is not really ideal. I would suggest going 5/5 in one or the other. If you are the only consistent hunter in your raids, then 5/5 IHM is a must. If you are not the only consistent hunter in your raids, then a BM should have 5/5 IHM ideally since they have less mana issues so that you can have 5/5 Efficiency.

 

Whitefyst

Not saying your spec is bad since there are many ways to skin a cat. along with personal preference. However, I do want to clarify your MT comment. As far as personal DPS goes, there is no diminishing returns (at least not until super high crit) with higher crit. Higher crit equals more DPS. There are diminishing returns with improvements to your EW proc since your uptime is already high under ideal conditions, but it still helps the EW proc, especially under unideal fighting conditions. MT is also benefit for our abilities that proc on crit, which include TotH and hourglass as well as EW. Also MT is good on all attacks, Barrage is good only on Multishot when you can use it.

With that said and analysis I have done in the past, a MT build is generally superior to a barrage build.

If you do not currently use Cheeky's spreadsheet, suggest comparing the 2 specs yourself in Cheeky's for your gear and seeing which is better.

Nice raid buffed stats. You are very fortunate to be getting all of the ideal buffs, and this is definitely contributing to you success on the DPS charts as well as your general good choices in gear.

Concerning the gear choices, use Cheeky's to compare gear with checking out both personal DPS +/-s and raid DPS +/- via EW proc +/-s.

For the helm, agree with Vasilii. A3 helm is better than any of the helms you have listed. If you use the T6 gems in the T6 helm, it is slightly better though.

For neck, the Kael neck does have better personal DPS than the JC neck, but the JC neck has better EW impacts.

For shoulders, agree with Vasilii. Skip T5. T6 is a good upgrade though.

For cloak, agree with you both, but may want to look into acquiring one of the hit cloaks as backup if need more HR in the future.

For chest, the Ranger-General is the best chest until T6. If you can get that, skip T5. Until then, suggest as Vasilii stated to get the a3 one.

Agree with bracers.

For gloves, agree as well, expept that the [Fists of Mukoa] are actually higher personal DPS but less EW than T6 as another option.

For belt and legs, agree with Vasilii.

For boots, if you don't need the hit, stick with the Solarian boots. When gemmed properly, they and Cobra-lash are identical DPS, with the difference being more health on Cobra-lash versus mp5 on Star-strider.

For trinkets and rings, agree with both you and Vasilii.

For bow, the Vashj one is a big personal DPS gain, but since it has no agility, you lose total raid DPS. I would suggest [Legionkiller]. For me, it is only about 3.5 DPS less than Vashj bow, but almost 7 AP on EW proc better for significantly better raid DPS.

For melee, unless you need the hit, Trollbane is better than the halbred when gemmed properly. Another option is 2 [Netherbane]

 

wispwisp

1st off, u have been great help with your posts.
I plan to respec back to 0/20/41 for the MT. I guess i underestimated it. i read somewhere than MT is about equal to just under 5% crit.

so i should switch to something like...

Isn't this the 3:2 rotation.
Does it work for Survival too? cuz i thought it was just for BM.
or should i stay with 1:1.5 Manual Weaving as Surv.
I use AutoHotKey so i just hold my macro button down while I spam Multi / Arcane when available. It saves my fingers :P

u also said
I thought Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation > Gauntlets of Sniping for Survival.. at least that is what cheekys shows.

Doesnt a 3.0s bow work better with a 1:1.5 rotation than a 2.9s?
For some reason, cheekys puts Trollbane > Dagger of Bad Mojo x2. i checked the enchants. i must be doing something wrong.

 

nfmmalice

Hello,

We are currently trying to figure out one of our hunter's Survival Spec for raids...

here is her Armory:

The World of Warcraft Armory

But We are thinking of resepeccing her to:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Hunter -> Talent Calculator


In an Attempt to make her more versatile, as contribute More DPS than she currently does...

Right now I have her using this Shot MAcro:


#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Lightning Breath
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

**EDIT**
Would we gain more DPS/Speed by Throwing in the Sound=0 COmmand Prompt?

********



I know some of her gear needs attention, but we are slowly but surely getting there..

We are just barely starting 25 mans, and do not have ZA on Farm...

Everything as it sits Is kind of a hodge podge,a ndwe need to reign it in and get a little bit of organization... So any Help you could throw at me would be greatly appreciated

 

• Intermission

Those gear posts a few people have been posting above are great! Nice way to look at each slot at a glance. However do not neglect [Shadowmaster's Boots], which I believe are the best in the game (for all hunter specs).

(if only another one dropped... our rogues/enhancement have them already, then they decided to stop dropping )

 

Rasher

I recently started playing WoW again, so I might not to up-to-date yet.

Instead of playing the usual 1.5:1 rotation, I'm trying a 2:1 rotation using only steady/auto shot. I did some tests at Dr. Boom today (got 4/5 t6 yesterday, which imo is necessary for this) and it seems to work well so far.

I've read some posts of people saying there is a 1.5 seconds global cooldown, but I sometimes manage to shoot 2 steadys in less than 2.54 seconds (27 haste using a 3.0 bow). I guess the quiver also reduce the global cooldown. If this happens, there is a high chance that my macro starts a 3rd steady ~0.1 seconds before my auto goes off. Due to that little bug, I'm losing about 5% of my DPS.

Here's the macro I'm using:

Using a cast sequence is not possible for a 2:1 rotation, since it creates a small lag (~0.3 seconds).

Any ideas for a clean 2:1 rotation macro?

edit: Using more haste (95+) fixed it for me, but there should be a better way.

 

ugla

The changes you made to her spec made it worse. She has the right idea with what a survival spec should look like. Imp. Aspect of the Hawk barely helps survival hunters, whereas MT can really help your expose weakness proc rate before you have a high crit rate, and readiness adds utility especially in 10mans. Having 2 feign deaths, 2 misdirects, 2 traps etc usable one after the other can prove very useful in raids.

 

Vasilii

I'll repost Zek's observations:

Next few answers are my personal observations and should not be taken as facts. (apart from how KC is modeled in spreadsheet).

1. What happens with mana usage if you do 1:1.5 + KC when on CD.?
You run out faster. Witch can be serious problem before you get geared up and got used to managing you mana pool.

2. What happens with 1:1.5 rotation if you use KC?
You will most likely mess it up (doing less damage). Especially if you macro KC and in such case 1. (up) will happen even faster.

3. Is there any possible way to use KC as Survival with 1:1.5 rotation?
Yes. 1:1.5 has openings where KC could be used. (BUT same GDC opening is better used on MendPet, Hunters Mark, Trinket/Racial Activation, Scorpid Sting and now even Serpent Sting)

4. How frequent are this "openings"?
From experience once or twice per 20 seconds. Depends on how "perfect" execution of rotation you have, coupled with your lag and reaction time. Most times its once for me.
It looks liker: steady+multi, auto, steady, auto, steady+arcane, auto, steady+opening, auto, steady...

5. Is Cheeky's Spreadsheet correct on theoretical KC damage gain for Survival(any) hunters.
No. Because it would be modeling hell. Entire 1:1.5 rotation is "chaotic". So Cheeky has modeled KC with no GDC. Just frequency based on your critical hits (added in v12 of spreadsheet). And that is causing KC to show bigger DPS gain than actual.

For young hunters to try 1:1.5 with KC... Sure TRY, maybe they figure out something new (like 4xt3.5 set bonus)
But I recommend that they do it after they have played with 1:1.5 rotation for some time.

Edit: I say GDC for KC, because it's approximately how much it costs you (KC delays auto).
And I remembered, some people had some success with "auto. KC/Steady. auto. KC/Steady+Arcane, auto..." witch is still unexplored by me. Mostly because I use "Auto shot, Steady Shot + LB" macro and weave all other things manually.

Zek's Testing
Been doing KC/Arcane, KC/Multi-Shot, KC/Scorpid for 2 raids now. And I noticed drop in DPS on all but RoS fight (~-50-200 drop). RoS was 200 bigger than usual.
Didn't watch whole Fraps or analyzed shot frequency on WWS yet.

Always had Shaman in group for GoA, Spring, Mana Tide. Used MoC + Alchemy Stone. Had 70ms / 30 or 60
fps(30=frapsing). Pet was Wind Serpent without Cobra Reflexes.

Macros used:
1. Castsequence macro for Auto, Steady + LB
2. castrandom KC + cast Arcane
3. castrandom KC + cast Multi-Shot
4. castrandom KC + cast Scorpid Sting

Things I dare to say without even looking at WWS/Fraps.

* Was using Viper more
* Drank more Fel Mana pots.
* Used Scorpid Sting less (far less)
Bigger mana issues... Without SP group adding KC to rotation requires near perfect mana management via consumables. And short fights.

* Clobbered more shots
It's observable with eye. KC sometimes "lags", it looks like macro button activates twice. I also had more "macro stuck" moments on primary macro.

Rough DPS numbers from yesterday Council (recount data, no wws yet).
Pet DPS = ~154 (quite normal Survival pet DPS)
65% was white = ~100 dps
18% was LB (much resisted due 250 chromatic aura) = ~28 dps
17% was KC (Shatterer has "low" 6200armor (7440 when he has devotion aura), had 5xsunder, FF(30-40% uptime) and CoR up) = ~26 dps

If you are willing to include KC in your 1:1.5 rotation as Survival for +1/4 of your pet white dps well you be the judge.
To be 100% sure I plan to do some more testing (whole Hyall, BT up to RoS).

I don't see me using it anywhere but on RoS as Survival for now. It's simply to much mana.
Well maybe I'm doing something wrong. Any suggestions?

Edit:
Best result on Council (KC = 33 dps)

 

Wunlastri

How do I save a timed string on recount? The main reason I never boom test is because I can't figure out how to seperate samples and look over them later.

What really annoys me is watching rogues outdps me, but that is neither here nor there. Though I wonder how much does a rogue buff the group/raid? I know next to nil about them and just always live under the assumption that they are pure takers in that sense.

1000ms =.1 latency. Got it. This I will never forget. HR on the other hand....is 90...something.

Whytefyst;

Nature of fights isn't the issue as I am pretty skilled on behavior for them all aside from Sharahz who I always die to during FA.

Modeling of the target may have something to do with it, I assume changing target is under settings but I would have to know the values of the targets to change armor. I don't recall where to find armor values for specific bosses.

While other actions may knock off some DPS, I really don't believe that the effect should be so pronounced. However, I will admit that I still do not have a concrete shot rotation and assume THIS to be my most pronounced problem. I am mediocrely skilled at timing and am quick to stop focusing intently on it to attend to other duties (MD, aggro watch, pet main, scorpid, etc)

One thing I see myself doing is playing too cautiously. When I see that I've passed 90% of atanks threat, I throttle myself hard since I have pulled in the past. What is the range when the 150% rule takes place and how often do you aggro dump? Every 30 seconds or when you pass the tank's threat?

I have all of my buffs turned off and always will atleast until I am satisfied with my constant level of dps. Holy crap, that means I am even worse off than I thought I was. (Im going to go kill myself now) A little low you say? You are far too kind.

When it comes to gear I have really bad luck. Most if not all of my best upgrades scream BM and I loathe the spec, which makes trying to play it well an exercise in pain.

I have a neck of the deep, but no Kael neck or cloak yet. So, I really should slot in a blue instead? That logic confuses me slightly, but I can see where you are coming from.

The cloak is staying until I can replace that hit. Saying I do get the cloak off of shade, if we are a caster heavy raid would Teron's be better still since I would be helping only 5-6 including myself or not? I just got the Quickstrider Moccassins and could finally drop the waraxe in favor of netherbane/blade of infamy, but gear is not the main issue I think.

Enova;
Turns out I do about 1050 during boss fights (atleast on Rage Winterchill), which is somewhat satisfying. Yeh, I don't reset meters, but boss fights are done with raid buffs, meaning I am still somewhat low (exacts can be found out by me actually plugging in buffs after I make this post).

What is the 'ideal benchmark'? I am using recount but will admit I know very little about the addon.

Here's a question, you expect 1000 easily, is this with no buffs?

Pet; Aside from Rain of Fire, Death and Decay, and Illidan firebombs, my Wind Serpet does not die. LB is inside of a macro as is KC, but I am re-realizing as I am not BM and this is not a Ravager KC is not that great of an idea.

I really think it is the rotation. Call me slow or whatever, but so far I have only fully understood the 1:1 rotation. Special, Auto, rinse repeat. 1:1.5 as far as I can tell is the same as 2:3 which basically means special, auto, special, auto, special. How is this any different from 1:1 besides what you start with? I assumed this meant weaving in an auto (thus why I chose IAS over MS) at the end of a steady, before the auto fires.

I change nothing when DST procs, believing the speed increase to not be enough to cause clipping. This is probably something I should watch more intently, but kind of don't have time to stare at a bar when the buff shows up.

Geez /wrist, don't fucking talk about the shoulders. Talk about messages from RNG to suffer. That plus the leather supremus chest just made me suck up BM for awhile and I don't want to talk about that time in my life. The belt is replaced with bladeangel's money belt aside from boss fights. Should I just ignore the 15 hit (dropping me to 80 HR before surefooted)?

RK vs IAS. Why doesn't RK improvements show up in the SS? I always chose it last because the bonus seemed to throw off my rota...tion, which I never changed in the first place so there's one blatant error. How should my rotation switch up during haste/RF? As for short fights like that, I live under the assumption popping RF too early is asking to pull aggro. Thus another reason behind me not caring to take RK.

I raid with a WS, don't downrank because I have enough gold to always have pots (wtb fel mana injector)

The spec and gear are now different from when I first posted the query. Replace SR neck with Deep neck to see what I intend to work with usually.

 

Vasilii

The spread sheet does not inherently model RFs or the benefit of RK. However you can do this by hand, I have done this and it shows that while using RF with straight steady spam that both DPS and time to OOM increases. This is a great benefit, higher dps while consuming less mana.

RK + Readiness means 5 RFs in longer fights.

IAS does zero for you if you are using a 1:1.5 rotation (arcane + multi)

It sounds like you are playing a bit conservatively. I usually MD the boss to tank, go through 2-4 shot rotations riding very close to the tank, then I FD, pop RF, Readiness, RF again, then FD and do 1:1.5. I find it easier to maintain solid dps if I grab that initial jump. Plus blowing your CDs early means they can be ready again if its a longer encounter. I wouldn't apply the same logic to your sex life.

Do you use Omen? Our whole guild uses and its nice because then you just get a big red warning if you get close to the tank, I don't even watch the meter aside from the initial push... I just wait for the warning to pop and then use FD accordingly. Our tanks are very good and TPS is a high priority for them so usually I'm FDing 3 times, maybe 4.

 

movado

Illidan bow or Archimonde bow for a survival hunter -- I'm not sure if it is worth me upgrading. Any help?

 

Wunlastri

As compared to...what? Valanos? Nah, stick with the BoE blue. Against each other Archi has the best dps. So if you are good on mana that's the choice du jour.

Vas; Yeh I use omen and I do play way conservative.

 

Snipehunter

delete please.

 

Exbox

This is a serious question: Did you post all that just to get your ego stroked? Because any surv hunter accomplishing in the 3rd spot on any given fight either has one of three things.

a) better gear than the rest of the raid
b ) a better raid compo than the rest of the raid
c) bad players in the rest of your raid.

As a surv hunter on any given fight.... I rarely finish above 6-7 on some fights, and pull 2-4 on fights like Illidan.


Survival is a perfect balance between personal dps output and an increase in raid output.

If your sacrifice of your S3 helm for the T5 helm increases raid dps more than your personal, then go T5 Imo.

 

Snipehunter

Ok, sorry I guess. I'll delete the thread. I don't pull 3rd on dps charts; the other two hunters do, and I'm right behind them near 6th. I just wanted to know, given the feedback to wispwisp whether i should keep the T5 set bonus or break it to optimize individual pieces.

*Edited for capitalizing the first word of each sentence.

 

Namarus

Has anyone any thoughts on how the large amounts of haste gear in Sunwell is going to affect Survival hunters. Since more and more physical dps classes will be stacking these haste items, will we be pushed to maximizing our agility vs personal dps?

Do we need a new look at what the new formula for agility to raid dps might change to?

Right now I've been collecting the very best agility gear to socket with spinels when badges buy them. However, I wanted to know if I should even bother doing this, or just keep with what I have.

 

Tiberium

Whilst this may not be a direct response to your particular upgrade path it provides interesting information nonetheless. Each slot is filled with the sole purpose of creating a high DPS mark for a survival spec hunter (according to Cheeky's). The 2 slots I don't like are the haste items in the back and wrist slots, this uses a 3.0 speed weapon therefore DPS gains are shown by Hasting to achieve a tighter rotation.

Personally I use [Bracers of the Pathfinder] and [Thalassian Wildercloak] in those slots. The other main problem when determining items using Cheeky's is that there is no support for the Survival and or MM specs 2:1 rotation (I understand that Cheeky is BM so his focus doesn't lie with us SV + MM Hunters)

This affects some items eg [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness] becomes far better than shown in Cheeky's when using the /cast macros.

Complete DPS:
Pet DPS 250.03 14.48%
Hunter DPS 1477.02 85.52%
Total DPS 1727.04

Pet:
Wind Serpent

Pet Abilities in order of priority:
Bite
Lightning Breath

Race:
Troll

Professions:
Not optimised

Main Hand:
[Dagger of Bad Mojo]
Greater Agility (One Hand)

Off Hand:
[Dagger of Bad Mojo]
Greater Agility (One Hand)

Helmet:
[Cursed Vision of Sargeras]
[Glyph of Ferocity]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]
[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]

Neck:
[Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem]

Shoulders:
[Gronnstalker's Spaulders]
[Greater Inscription of Vengeance]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]

Back:
[Cloak of Fiends]
Greater Agility

Chest:
[Gronnstalker's Chestguard]
Exceptional Stats
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]
[Jagged Seaspray Emerald]
[Jagged Seaspray Emerald]

Wrists:
[Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]
Assault

Hands:
[Gronnstalker's Gloves]
Superior Agility
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]

Belt:
[Don Alejandro's Money Belt]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]

Legs:
[Gronnstalker's Leggings]
[Nethercobra Leg Armor]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]

Feet:
[Shadowmaster's Boots]
Dexterity
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]
[Delicate Crimson Spinel]

Rings:
[Band of the Eternal Champion]
Stats

[Signet of Primal Wrath]
Stats

Trinkets:
[Berserker's Call]

[Madness of the Betrayer]

Ranged Weapon:
[Bristleblitz Striker]
[Stabilized Eternium Scope]

Quiver/Pouch:
[Quiver of a Thousand Feathers]

Ammo:
[Timeless Arrow]

 

Enova

Not really, no...
As a a general observation, I found that the amount of unbuffed dps the spreadsheet shows is pretty close to the buffed amount me (and actually the other hunters I've tried testing this on) dish out on the field. Basically. raidbuff gain ~ movement and incapacitating effects loss. It's not exactly an academic observation, but it's still a way to quantify the dps loss from spreadsheets to in game mechanics.

A wind serpent is pretty much the best dps pet you can have as a survival. GFTT comes into play here, and, along with the massive crit ratio survival hunters achieve, it gives you a very steady, almost limitless supply of focus for your pet to spam LB.

Guilty as charged ^

 

Wunlastri

That being the case then I am not as bad off as I seemed for Rage.

Generally speaking, I avoid MS due to mana costs as well as it's lag on timing feeling clunky/clippy. Assuming the lack of a need for CC carefulness, should I make myself start using MS more or is sticking with ArcShot when it's up the best idea?

 

Petshak

Hello!

I am a really undergeared than most of you, and i have no time/chance to collect those items you have equipped. I rolled Survival specc as my very first one i ever played, i and i like it very much 2 years ago now, but as a really casual player im playing a small casual Guild. We have Karazhan on farm, and we have some trys at Gruul, Void Raver, and ZA yet.

Here is my armoury link: The World of Warcraft Armory

If any of you have time to check it, and/or make some suggestions for me how can i upgrade my gear/stats from Gruul/ZA/Void or even Badges, im will be very happy.

Thank you for reading! Best regards: Petshak

 

Epk

First post on Ej

My guild and I are new rerolls back at the start of 2.3, and we have advanced fairly fast through content and we are looking at making our first attempts at Vashj and Kael this week.

I am currently spec'd for BM along with the 2 other hunters in our raids, but soon I'm going to spec into SV for raid utility. Only thing holding me back is gear and agility availability. So my question is, when I spec, should I opt for the Arcanite Steam-Pistol over Vashj bow, due to my racial as a dwarf toon? According to Cheeky's it shows an increase in overall DPS and of course crit chance over Vashj's. If I'm not entirely dumb, the only drawback to the 2 would be the speeds, but they aren't that much of a difference.. or are they?

Thanks


Guild NewsHush - Guild Launch Guild Hosting

 

Enova

If you can safely use MS, the choice is yours; more dps or more longevity. You can try using MS rank 1 for some balanced dpm ratio, or you can go all out with it max rank. You're getting more damage from the >1k multishot than you lose from the <0.5 second autoshot you may delay every 10 seconds. What it really comes down to in the end is how you like to manage your mana.

Personally, I use MS rank 1 for most fights, but on stuff like Teron or ROS, I top rank it, because mana is less important.

EDIT: CC awareness will soon be a moot point, anyway, given that it will no longer break targets under break on damage type crowd control - possibly unless specifically targeted.

Also, rephrased a little bit.

Guilty as charged ^

 

Sillyman

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Lightning Breath
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Hello all first post. Been a avid reader for awhile. Anyway, I will be going survival soon this is my 3:2 macro I will use situationally in battle. Problem is I am getting spam on my screen in regards to Lightning Breath either not being ready, or the pet does not have enough focus. This is my first wind serpent so I am not sure if this is just the nature of the beast, you would think the /script clear part of the macro would handle this. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Chanii

Have the same problem here.
I think all we need is to add the line "/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()" on the top of the macro.
Right?



Edit:
Yup, it did help.