@ Intermission. This is indeed the really frustrating thing about using the /cast macros, for some people they work flawlessy whist for others they chain Steadys occasionally all the way through to chaining horribly.
Originally Posted by Intermission
Thanks for your post Tiberium, particularly the "how do I stop chain steadies" part. Many times I've been wanting to use that for various reasons (no-thinking needed, mana efficiency), but simply would not work.
I'll give those methods a shot and post any results.
edit: the results.
Unfortunately, I think the /castsequence line is not a magic cure for the chain-steady problem. Macro's used:
I hunters marked Dr Boom and instantly held down my g15 macro at 25 cycles per second (DOWN - 0.02 delay - UP - 0.02 delay). When the hunters mark faded I instantly turned around/jumped to stop all shots. I recored the number of autoshots/steadyshots per test. I did each test twice, results seperated by a /.
As you can see, the /castsequence is not firing shots as fast. It also did not completely prevent steady-chaining, as I saw it steady-chain once in each test. The /cast /cast method also chain-steadied, 3 times in one test and twice in another.
Looking at your tests though on Boom at least you actually come within 2 Steady Shots of a perfect 2:1 rotation, the 39//77 result is pretty much what one would expect in 120 sec.
Something which is very odd though is the ratio of shots.
Taking the 39//77 result as its your best and add the fact that you chained 2 Steady Shots during that test we should see the numbers like this
38//78 thus allowing for 2 extra Steadys that were chained, odd indeed.
One final point that hits home from your results is using the fix of /cast /castsquence:-
Is that only very good latency players can expect to get solid results, probably less than 100 to make it work well. Still if anyone can post better than 39//79 using the cast macro on Boom over 120 secs. it would be great to find out how you do it.
Well the "turn around when hunters mark hits 0" is not accurate, and I could tell that on some tests I turned around right as it finished a steady, or right when it should of. Also the GCD from HM start is a poor way too...
I mainly did it to show the difference in /cast/castsquence with 260 latency, and it shows that good enough.
Although the chain-steadies did not happen often on DrBoom, in any raid I am in it chain-steadies constantly. Also, for some reason in Blasted Lands it happened heaps too (no KC/LB). Maybe simply the latency change from Outlands to Blasted Lands made the difference.
3) What kind of Macro would that be and what kind of gear would be necessary?
The Barrage build seems very nice...especcialy due to the 12% more damage to multi and 3% from range weapon specc...but theres also the question of mana...due to the loss of IAotH the mana usage would increase or am I wrong?
The 0/20/41 specc with or without readiness...well...I always thought of it as a dps loss...^^
I like the heavy support a SV hunter means for the raid but I still want to do my part of the dmg...and I want to do it really well ^^
2) Although you can do this yourself, as evidence for my suggestion, I put your current gear and build (see that you changed to a 0/20/41 w/o Readiness) in Cheeky's Spreadsheet and saw the following using a set of ideal raid buffs and using a level 73 target with 7700 armor:
DPS: 1342.44
Time to OOM: 169.46
Average EW AP: 298.73
DPS: 1343.91 (+1.47)
Time to OOM: 166.49 (-2.97)
Average EW AP: 302.96 (+4.23)
Assuming 0.25 AP to DPS conversion and 8 other physical DPS in the raid, this increases not only your personal DPS by 1.47 but also your overall raid contribution by 9.93 DPS.
Now if you put +10 agi gems in the neck, the results are:
DPS: 1346.50 (+4.06)
Time to OOM: 166.61 (-2.85)
Average EW AP: 304.26 (+5.53)
That is an overall raid contribution increase by 15.12 DPS.
Ignoring the stamina and intellect since they don't factor directly into DPS and the +5 hit since you are at the cap or above in both cases, the difference between the two sets is:
+17 agi versus -32 AP
Since LR and BoK scales that +17 agi to 21.5 agi, this explains the big increase in the average EW proc.
That +21.5 agi is also +21.5 AP, +0.54% crit, +43 armor, and +0.86 dodge. Thus, the DPS difference comes down to +0.54% crit > -10.5 AP.
3) Concerning the effective 7/20/41 build, it is most effective in my opinion in a situation that is similar to a BM hunter in which unplanned large increases in haste are automatically incorporated and handled by the rotation. To make this effective for a survival hunter, one needs the 4 T6 set bonus and preferabbly the Ashtongue rep trinket that provides benefits of steady shot. Under those situations, many hunters (not all and definitely not me since I am not there yet) have been able to successfully use the /cast !auto /cast Steady Shot macro you will see referenced in many places in this thread to implement an auto-steady-steady rotation (2:1). Under certain levels of haste, this macro should theoretically implement a 3:2 rotation of auto-steady-steady-auto-steady, and then under higher haste the 1:1 rotation. Haste effects help this situation perform at its best so Quickshot procs should theoretically have only positive effects on the rotation and DPS. Note that some people are getting steady shot chained beyond 2 when using this macro, but this may only be a timing thing, but I can't say for sure since I have not tested it myself yet since I am not anywhere a position to get benefits from it.
BTW... with 5/5 in Efficiency and 3/3 in TotH, you have quite a bit of mana efficiency at 30.2% (10% from Efficiency and 20.2% from 3/3 TotH ideally). As a comparison, I run with only 2/3 TotH, which gives me about 13.6%. I make up for this difference by using mana oils and mana pots and sometimes elixers of major mageblood. If you find that you are having few mana problems with this build, you may want to consider reallocating some of those points to increase DPS. You can easily take one point out of TotH if you want and place it in either of Readiness, Wyvern Sting, Scatter Shot, or 1/3 Barrage depending on which you prefer.
Thank you alot for taking the time to explain your thoughts that detailled to me! I really appreciate it!
Before the Kara-Badge raid last night I decided to test the 0/20/41 specc...thats why I respecced...
The problem with the Gauntlets is that I planned to get the T6 Gloves next time the token drops (hopefully next week)...so I would be short on Hit again if I would switch Worgenclaw to Necklace of the Deep :/ Besides in my guild Crimson Spinel is only given out for items with no real upgrade in range :/
As you mention the mana efficiency:
During all the Bossfights last night in Kara i never dropped under 30% Mana...without oils and mageblood...
So I think it would be best to reallocate 1 point from TotH into Readiness...that would give me 2x Rapid Fire, 2x MD and other stuff As I see, it would match your specc exactly
That combined with Fel Mana Potions during raids would be quite good...
May I ask at which position you find yourself after Bossfights (in DMG-Meters)?
Lag and the use of castsequence versus cast and the use of KC will all affect rather you get chain steadies or not.
What really got me thinking about using a /cast macro for SV was wwsscoreboard. The top hunters on Teron are pulling 2600+ DPS. My best SV Teron at the time was 2050. As you all know from looking at my logs, my group is usually set up with every conceivable buff.
With that being the case, the 500+ DPS loss from BM to SV just bugged me to death. I knew that even on paper EW was barely worth 500 DPS. Now factor in all the things that happen that cause you not to get an optimal EW benefit such as melee deaths, melee not showing up on a specific night or simple split DPS and I realized something had to give from my 1.5:1 20/41 build.
The first thing I did was run BM for a while. Using the 3:2 rotation as BM really opened up my eyes to the benefits of this type of rotation. However I saw chain steadies happening even with BM if KC was used at a certain time in the rotation. This concerned me, but I shrugged it off after doing 2550 on Teron with a worst group makeup than I had during my best SV run.
The got me thinking about carrying over the macro to SV. So I sat down and modeled some things in Cheeky's SS. I came up with a 2:1 unhasted rotation (manually entered you should set line 49 and 50 to none to loop the rotation correctly), a 3:2 rotation during Quick Shots and DST procs and a 1:1 during both Quick Shots and DST. This was with 80 haste added manually on the gear tab to account for my group’s drum uptime. This setup scored way ahead of my previous build and spec and was within 100 DPS of my BM setup in the spreadsheet.
I then tried it in game and kept chaining the steadies esp if i macroed in KC. Losing KC alone was sizeable DPS loss, made more grievous by the fact that I had focus fire. The chain steadies were obviously another big dps loss. I almost gave up, telling myself that with these problems the /cast option can't possibly be better for me and expose weakness can't possibly be worth a 500-600 DPS loss from me being SV over BM in a real raid situation.
After a lot of macro tinkering I decided to change to a castsequence macro. That largely fixed the chaining problem and even allowed me to put KC in my macro without chaining. I ran with that spec this week and saw a nice improvement in my DPS on Teron.
Recount on ZA bear mount runs really got me. On those runs I don't have the grp make up I do in 25 mans obviously. I am usually in a caster group with no benefits to my DPS other than heroism. When I ran it as BM I was pulling 2k on bosses. With the new SV macro I was only doing 1600-1700. I wasn't really troubled by it, I just noted the difference.
This week I took a [Fang of Kalecgos] just to play around. I went to ZA this week, same group as always, same 7/20/34 build and pulled 2k on the bear and hawk bosses, pretty much equaling my BM numbers.
Why do I think the extra haste helped so much? First of all my macro never produced what I had modeled. Even with drums going off constantly, hawk procs were still giving me a 2:1 and not the 3:2 I had modeled. One would think that the 15% haste from Hawk plus the 5% haste from drums would give me the same rotation as the 20% haste from SS in the BM tree. It wasn’t and it could have been due to using /castsequence instead of the /cast I used in my BM test. The extra haste from the dagger coupled with drums and the 15% from hawk does push me to a 3:2 with /castsequence. I will see what my WWS looks like this week with the dagger and [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]
In conclusion, after you get 4 PC T6 and a 3.0 bow, 7/20/41 is probably going to be the best DPS spec if you can do the modeled rotations either through a macro or by hand weaving.
Haste is probably going to be all but useless to a SV hunter unless you use some type of steady spam rotation and you have haste procs going off either through IotH or a DST. Even then you need to guarantee that your macro performs at 3:2 during the haste procs or you hand weave it yourself during haste procs. Given the Itemazation in SW I feel that a IotH build which allows you to utilize haste that you will end up getting on some items is probably going to be the best DPS for a build with EW.
It really comes down to the player. I have tried and used every build out there at various times. You must be willing to constantly test, tweak and reevaluate where your gear is, your raid make-up and how you plan on executing your shot rotation. I'd urge everyone to take a hard look at your difference between BM personal DPS and SV personal DPS and weigh EW with a grain of salt. You can theory craft it out to AP *.3 * # of DPSers all day, but in the real world people may or may not perform at 100% and a lot of fights have split DPS. Things like Kalegos where you may be on the Demon while all the people who benefit from you EW are on the Dragon, fights like Council where two of your raids DPS are interrupting on the Priest while you are shooting the Paladin to even fights like Teron or Brutelas where 2 of your buffees get ghost or die from aoe will all diminish the paper value of EW.
I feel that SV is like any other buff spec, ie Arms Warriors, Enhance Shaman, Boomkin etc. You have to do enough DPS on your own to make it worth bringing you in for your Buff. Doubly so if you are a class that has a pure dps spec and a buff dps spec such as hunters. In my experience so far, I find I really have to constantly tweak my play as SV to make it worth it in my eyes.
If you are reading this thread you are in the right place, just remember that every idea has merit and don't listen to the flamers when an new idea pops up. Things that perform better in tricked out groups are in all likelihood going to perform better in unbuffed groups.
This week I took a [Fang of Kalecgos] just to play around. I went to ZA this week, same group as always, same 7/20/34 build and pulled 2k on the bear and hawk bosses, pretty much equaling my BM numbers.
So, in essence, you gained 300dps by getting a 1.6% haste dagger?
The extra haste from the dagger coupled with drums and the 15% from hawk does push me to a 3:2 with /castsequence.
Which macro would this be?
Last edited by Kabuto : 04/07/08 at 11:20 AM.
Reason: editted quote
I don't see that direct quote any where in my post or anywhere on the page. It's probably not the best idea to paraphase something and then put it in quotes like that.
3:2, 2:1, 1:1 are all shot roatations. All of these can be produced using
/cast !auto shot
/cast Steady Shot
Alternertivley
/cast !autoshot
/castsequence Steady Shot
Some people have found using castsequence will cut down on the macro producing more than 2 steadies per auto in an unhasted state. Both macros will go from 2:1 - > 3:2 -> 1:1 depending on your haste and latency. This leads me to the theory of why my dps took a substantial dps increase with just the additon of 25 haste rating.
Again depending on you haste rating either of the macros above will do 2:1. At some point of haste you will break into 3:2. Adding more haste will eventually put you at 1:1. For me 80 haste rating from drums of battle and 15% haste from IotH still had me at 2:1 with my macro. Hence the 1700ish dps I saw during the first run in question.
25 haste rating + 80 haste rating + 15% from IotH put me at a 3:2 roatation. I didn't pay much attention to what my DST procs were before and after, but I am confident that they were 3:2 with the dagger.
I have the following DPS during Ioth and DST according to Cheeky's
Ioth
3:2 - 2087
2:1 - 1949
DST
3:2 - 2088
2:1 - 1888
Having enough of an haste to bump me into 3:2 or even 1:1 terriotory with my hawk and DST procs are cleary a big upgrade.
I hunters marked Dr Boom and instantly held down my g15 macro at 25 cycles per second (DOWN - 0.02 delay - UP - 0.02 delay). When the hunters mark faded I instantly turned around/jumped to stop all shots. I recored the number of autoshots/steadyshots per test. I did each test twice, results seperated by a /.
Hi, I recently got myself the G15, but now I cant seem to find the links to how I make "macros" like these anymore. Can you provide some easy explaination or a link for me? I would be very greatful.
On topic, I have used the 2:1 macro for a while now, even though we still havent broken the T6 instances, and I love it. Thanks for all the valuable inputs you all have shared with the community here. Have found many good tips that has helped me dps harder in my SV role. Have been 20/41 for a good while now, but thinking as well on trying the IAotH build to see how that works with the 2:1 spam. Keep up the good discussions!
The problem with the Gauntlets is that I planned to get the T6 Gloves next time the token drops (hopefully next week)...so I would be short on Hit again if I would switch Worgenclaw to Necklace of the Deep :/ Besides in my guild Crimson Spinel is only given out for items with no real upgrade in range :/
May I ask at which position you find yourself after Bossfights (in DMG-Meters)?
If you can get the T6 gloves soon (I am hoping to get them this week myself), then ignore getting the badge gauntlets and save your badges for something else. Hopefully, you can acquire some other hit gear to help replace that neck. I am in a similar situation where I am forced to wear [Drape of the Dark Reavers] a lot. I do have [Halberd of Desolation] and [Ring of Deceitful Intent] to help out if I really need hit, but I prefer to dual weild if possible since those items provide better DPS (if I can make my hit cap other ways) and allows the use of double mana oils and hope to ditch the hit ring after the 2.4 badge loot becomes available on my server so I can use [Angelista's Revenge] along with the MT ring.
Concerning where I find myself on the meters after boss fights, well that definitely depends on several factors, such as the nature of the boss fights, the buffs received, group synergy, and any special tasks I have during the fight, such as keeping up Scorpid or MDing spawns to the spawn tank when they come. On single-target bosses, I am typically in the top 5, even though lately I have found myself in groups that provides me very little benefit. When in the ideal group, I am usually in or very near the top 3 with only our rogues (who always get in the best physical DPS buff group and rightly so) consistently beating me, although I do beat them from time to time (the most common occurrences is on Fanthom Lord). On nights where we only have 2 pallies and I have to choose between Blessing of Might and Wisdom, I have fallen out of the top 5 but remain close. On AoE boss fights, I can somtimes remain in the top 5 but our best AoEers usually beat me.
Originally Posted by Jander
I knew that even on paper EW was barely worth 500 DPS.
I almost gave up, telling myself that with these problems the /cast option can't possibly be better for me and expose weakness can't possibly be worth a 500-600 DPS loss from me being SV over BM in a real raid situation.
I do not know how many physical DPS you typically have in your raids, but if you have the right gear and raid/group buffs such that you near or exceed 1200 buffed agility and have a great EW uptime, your average EW AP can be around 300 AP or better (theoretically mine is at 296 and I hardly have any good T6 gear yet). Now with assuming a 0.25 AP to DPS conversion and 8 other physical DPS, including pets, in the raid, this equates to 600 DPS.
And yes, I realize that value will decrease if you do not have the ideal buffs or under non-ideal boss fights (as all are). However, unless you completely stop your rotation for long stretches, even on fights with movement and interruptions, except for the worst cases, your EW uptime should not suffer too much, and the average EW AP should not drop that much either.
EDIT: And another thing to remember is that part of the reason your BM hunters DPS is so high is because of your EW to them and their pet, adding about 100-125 DPS to their totals. In addition, the extra TPS for the tanks can allow more DPS without pulling aggro, helping the numbers of the raid even more.
If you can get the T6 gloves soon (I am hoping to get them this week myself), then ignore getting the badge gauntlets and save your badges for something else. Hopefully, you can acquire some other hit gear to help replace that neck. I am in a similar situation where I am forced to wear [Drape of the Dark Reavers] a lot. I do have [Halberd of Desolation] and [Ring of Deceitful Intent] to help out if I really need hit, but I prefer to dual weild if possible since those items provide better DPS (if I can make my hit cap other ways) and allows the use of double mana oils and hope to ditch the hit ring after the 2.4 badge loot becomes available on my server so I can use [Angelista's Revenge] along with the MT ring.
Concerning where I find myself on the meters after boss fights, well that definitely depends on several factors, such as the nature of the boss fights, the buffs received, group synergy, and any special tasks I have during the fight, such as keeping up Scorpid or MDing spawns to the spawn tank when they come. On single-target bosses, I am typically in the top 5, even though lately I have found myself in groups that provides me very little benefit. When in the ideal group, I am usually in or very near the top 3 with only our rogues (who always get in the best physical DPS buff group and rightly so) consistently beating me, although I do beat them from time to time (the most common occurrences is on Fanthom Lord). On nights where we only have 2 pallies and I have to choose between Blessing of Might and Wisdom, I have fallen out of the top 5 but remain close. On AoE boss fights, I can somtimes remain in the top 5 but our best AoEers usually beat me.
We are currently in BT...killed Najentus and Supremus...on the way to Akama right now...
With the new specc (with readiness this time) I have the feeling that my damage is lower than usual...I have no mana problems, i crit alot (2k+ crits, some nice crit chains)...this time I even have a shaman with improved grace of air totem and my agility sums up to 1201 agi buffed...but it seems that i can't compete with the rest of the raid...Najentus was a bit unlucky...i died at 20% because whatever happened ^^ before my death I was at position 10...but Supremus...position 8...
Perhaps I just have to get used to the new specc...or the macros I use combined with the new specc are crap:
Although inconsistencies with the ratios for steady shot and auto shot are due to various haste effects that I was using.
I really do not see any way a survival hunter is going to be able to pop fel mana potions or even normal mana potions in this fight, and full toth seemed pretty essential to me. Even with a ret paladin keeping up judgment of wisdom on the boss.
Perhaps I just have to get used to the new specc...or the macros I use combined with the new specc are crap:
The versions of your macros are castsequence macros, which can hurt your performance under certain conditions documented in this thread and the hunter rotations thread. Suggest trying out macro with replacing the castsequence part with /cast !Auto Shot /cast Steady Shot to see if the timing of your shots and your DPS improves.
In addition, since the /castrandom part does not enforce the true rotation by casting those specials when available, you may want to try hand-weaving the multishots and arcane shots on fights that are not too situational awareness intensive if you don't find that too difficult to do. What I do is rotating casting the multishot or arcane shot after every other steady. I try to cast it during the last 1/3 (0.5s) of the steady shot cast since it will not normally clip the steady cast then and will cast as soon as the steady shot is fired and before the autoshot. To implement this, I have the auto-steady cast macro in between my arcane shot and multishot buttons and spam the middle and then move to the specials when ready to cast them. This is easy to do and also provide me with the SA of when the specials are available. Other options include:
- combine the arcane shot and multishot casts into the same action bar slot with having one being cast on right click and the other on left
- same as above but with putting the auto-steady macro on the scroll wheel and spamming it and then right or left clicking for the specials when ready
- if you use hot keys, some folks have the full macro in a single hot key with using modifiers to indicate when to cast the specials
Some some ideas for you to try out and determine what works best for you.
Another thing to realize about the damage meters is that with you now putting up EW, you have just increased practically EVERYBODIES DPS in the raid. All the physical DPS's damage is directly improved by your EW. The caster's DPS can be indirectly improved by the fact that the tanks are now generating more threat allow them more room to DPS without pullling aggro.
Also, I am sure once you get comfortable with the change that your DPS will improve and you will move back up the meters.
Now some folks seam to doubt that the 2:1 can do 6 shots in 6 seconds. Well to be frank screw the theorycraft on this one. Off to boom again. Remove any haste proccing gear. Time a 120 second test using hunters mark. Use Recount to give a shot count. I usually get 79 Steady Shots and 39 Autos. Damn near close enough to one shot per second for me thank you very much.
I personally do this every week to ensure macro is still functioning correctly.
I actually say screw the theory craft as to why the /cast macro works and why it can deliver 1 shot per second average with very good reason. As of this moment in time nobody actually knows how the macro works, not even Cheeky....
Now, I have been to Boom, and tested this out on several occasions...and I cant seem to get higher than 74/37 - which is 111 shots (9 shots less than 120). I tested it about 10 times and each time came out to the same result (or 1-2 shot difference). Im not wearing any haste and my latency is only around 175-244. So, im not really sure what the problem is there.
Now on a side note, it seems to me, Tiberium, that you think everyone here is out to get you. You BOLD and underline a good majority of your statements, which instead of making your posts seem helpful, make them come off as arrogant and condescending. If you read Kurkis' posts he made, he never came off that way. People still may have flamed him or not listened to what he was saying, but they still talk about what he said, mostly because of how he said it and explained himself. I understand you want to get your point across, but maybe try doing it in a different way.
There are obvious issues with the 2:1 macro that cause clipping with people...and some people are able to fix that, and some are not. Gear also is another big issue...even with 4piece T6, it does not guarantee that you will produce more damage from a 2:1 rotation...again, it comes down to a person to person basis. Last has to do with group makeup. Kurkis even said it himself that the 2 most important people in a group with a Survival Hunter are a Feral Druid and an Enh Shaman. Well...thats not always possible for everyone. For myself, for example, we dont have a full time consistent Feral Druid...and its pretty rare when I get a Shaman over Rogues/Warrior/Warlocks/Mages (due to the fact that I dont add any group DPS, like a BM Hunter does with FI). Does that mean I never get either of those classes in my group? No, but its not something I can reasonably rely on.
Ive said it before, and ill say it again, I dont know everything there is to know about Hunters...and I dont claim to. The only advise I give is based on personal experience. I rarely will just spout information based on what other people say. If someone suggests something different than what im doing, I test it out for myself and see what happens. I rarely use Cheekys, because I would much rather tests it myself than have a spreadsheet tell me whats right and wrong. I am always open to people giving information on how I can improve myself, and at the same time, I am always willing to give helpful information out based on what has worked for me. But in the end, what works for one person, or even a majority of people, my not work for everyone due to a variety of factors that we may not have any control over.
And the description of how to set up the macro and how it works is found here: 3:2 Steady Macro DPS proof
Its a little weird to set up, so be sure and read the instructions first. This seems to help fix the bug for a lot of people...I tried it and it seemed to work ok, but I still need to work with it more.
but this macro is doing me a 4:1 rotation, is it because of my 2.9 Legionkiller or I shouldn't spam macro?
EDIT: KC seems to bug this macro.
I wouldn't bother with kill command or lightning breath in your macro. I found that kill command murders your dps by sticking the macro into continuous steadies. Even with the 3:2 bm macro listed above i found that it still locked on kill command.
Hi, I recently got myself the G15, but now I cant seem to find the links to how I make "macros" like these anymore. Can you provide some easy explaination or a link for me? I would be very greatful.
On topic, I have used the 2:1 macro for a while now, even though we still havent broken the T6 instances, and I love it. Thanks for all the valuable inputs you all have shared with the community here. Have found many good tips that has helped me dps harder in my SV role. Have been 20/41 for a good while now, but thinking as well on trying the IAotH build to see how that works with the 2:1 spam. Keep up the good discussions!
I'm in the same boat, I've tried out a few different macros and options with a 2:1 rotation but I still run into a bit of a problem with chaining. I'd really like to have the ability to sit back and worry about other stuff like my threat (3k tps while hasted on brut 30sec in gets me into trouble some times) or keeping up scorpid, instead of watching for steady chains and stopping my spam. If anyone could give me some help with this I'd really appreciate it.
And the description of how to set up the macro and how it works is found here: 3:2 Steady Macro DPS proof
Its a little weird to set up, so be sure and read the instructions first. This seems to help fix the bug for a lot of people...I tried it and it seemed to work ok, but I still need to work with it more.
I have that macro as BM and tried it, but it doesn't works.
WRT the issues of the
/cast !Auto Shot
/case Steady Shot
macro chaining steadies, why not make a number of macros and manually switch between them during the appropriate haste-ratings?
like:
/castsequence Steady Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
and
/castsequence Steady Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
Is there some reason besides the convenience to need the morphing macro?
/castsequence peforms rather poorly in macros across the board. You end up eating 2x your latency. At low latency levels this can be acceptable but if you are in 200+ms land then it really does gimp your dps.
I have seen a few people reference my use of /castsequence Steady Shot on a line by itself here recently. That was a while back iirc and a subsequent patch or a change in my latency made it not work any better than anything else for me. Also at some point (after a patch) I measured my shot counts aand determined that it was performing significantly worse than /cast !auto shot /cast steady shot so I switched away from it. I probably should have posted something. The end result is if you want to use macros because of the elevated situational awareness and possibly easy with dealing with haste effects (depends on the macro used) then you really need to sit down with recount and do two minute shot tests with each kind to see what works best for you. Your own personal latency, weapon speed and the amount of static haste you run around with are the biggest factors in how well these work.
My observation has been that steady shot chainss if you are spamming the macro and the steady shot and auto shot land very close to eachother. As you add haste you significantly reduce the chance of this happening because more deadtime exists between the steady shot cast time (which scales with haste) and the GCD (which does not). The same is true as latency increases, just on the other side. The dead time exists before the next steady fires. Wither of these situations give auto shot plenty of time to fire. When latency is low and there is no haste there is a smaller window and steadys tend to chian.
It has also been my experience that trying to use kill command as SV spec (basically without much static haste) significantly reduces the number of shots I fire per second. This is true if I have KC at the top or bottom of the macro. For that reason I dont do it.
The versions of your macros are castsequence macros, which can hurt your performance under certain conditions documented in this thread and the hunter rotations thread. Suggest trying out macro with replacing the castsequence part with /cast !Auto Shot /cast Steady Shot to see if the timing of your shots and your DPS improves.
In addition, since the /castrandom part does not enforce the true rotation by casting those specials when available, you may want to try hand-weaving the multishots and arcane shots on fights that are not too situational awareness intensive if you don't find that too difficult to do. What I do is rotating casting the multishot or arcane shot after every other steady. I try to cast it during the last 1/3 (0.5s) of the steady shot cast since it will not normally clip the steady cast then and will cast as soon as the steady shot is fired and before the autoshot. To implement this, I have the auto-steady cast macro in between my arcane shot and multishot buttons and spam the middle and then move to the specials when ready to cast them. This is easy to do and also provide me with the SA of when the specials are available. Other options include:
- combine the arcane shot and multishot casts into the same action bar slot with having one being cast on right click and the other on left
- same as above but with putting the auto-steady macro on the scroll wheel and spamming it and then right or left clicking for the specials when ready
- if you use hot keys, some folks have the full macro in a single hot key with using modifiers to indicate when to cast the specials
Some some ideas for you to try out and determine what works best for you.
Another thing to realize about the damage meters is that with you now putting up EW, you have just increased practically EVERYBODIES DPS in the raid. All the physical DPS's damage is directly improved by your EW. The caster's DPS can be indirectly improved by the fact that the tanks are now generating more threat allow them more room to DPS without pullling aggro.
Also, I am sure once you get comfortable with the change that your DPS will improve and you will move back up the meters.
Thank you again!
I used these Macros with my G15 bound to a key with a 0,02sec repeat because it fit my latency of 23ms during raids (cable internet)...
Later today as we tried Gorefiend I changed my macro and had my DPS recorded with Recount...during all trys I had around 1300DPS beeing position 3-5...one try I aggroed Gorefiend after a crit chain with 7 or 8 2k+ Crits, Rapid Fire and Bloodlust Brooch on...and sadly I had FD not ready ^_^
And switched to 1:1 when hasted...turned out to work fine (1300 DPS vs 800 DPS before)...
QuiggyB wrote:
It has also been my experience that trying to use kill command as SV spec (basically without much static haste) significantly reduces the number of shots I fire per second. This is true if I have KC at the top or bottom of the macro. For that reason I dont do it.
Hm...this sounds interesting...I'll test it if possible...
/castsequence peforms rather poorly in macros across the board. You end up eating 2x your latency. At low latency levels this can be acceptable but if you are in 200+ms land then it really does gimp your dps.
I have seen a few people reference my use of /castsequence Steady Shot on a line by itself here recently. That was a while back iirc and a subsequent patch or a change in my latency made it not work any better than anything else for me. Also at some point (after a patch) I measured my shot counts aand determined that it was performing significantly worse than /cast !auto shot /cast steady shot so I switched away from it. I probably should have posted something. The end result is if you want to use macros because of the elevated situational awareness and possibly easy with dealing with haste effects (depends on the macro used) then you really need to sit down with recount and do two minute shot tests with each kind to see what works best for you. Your own personal latency, weapon speed and the amount of static haste you run around with are the biggest factors in how well these work.
My observation has been that steady shot chainss if you are spamming the macro and the steady shot and auto shot land very close to eachother. As you add haste you significantly reduce the chance of this happening because more deadtime exists between the steady shot cast time (which scales with haste) and the GCD (which does not). The same is true as latency increases, just on the other side. The dead time exists before the next steady fires. Wither of these situations give auto shot plenty of time to fire. When latency is low and there is no haste there is a smaller window and steadys tend to chian.
It has also been my experience that trying to use kill command as SV spec (basically without much static haste) significantly reduces the number of shots I fire per second. This is true if I have KC at the top or bottom of the macro. For that reason I dont do it.
The /castsequence line, in regards to a 2:1 rotation, severely reduces the number of shots you put out. Doing some more testing, showed that with a /cast, I was getting around 73/36...but switching to a /castsequence changed that number to around 68/35. Another thing to note is that KC completely destroys the 2:1 rotation. Even if mana wernt an issue, I cant find a way to use it without destroying either my total shot output or having it cause Steady Shot to cast 4x in a row before Auto does.
Another odd note, while I was testing KC, I was out in Blasted Lands...and for whatever reason, noticed a much higher rate of my Auto Shot getting "stuck" then when I did it against Boom. I tried using the same macro, and other various settings, but for whatever reason, the rate at which Auto would get stuck, seemed higher. Latency was still around 140-150, so I dont think that was the issue. Very weird.
Hi, I recently got myself the G15, but now I cant seem to find the links to how I make "macros" like these anymore. Can you provide some easy explaination or a link for me? I would be very greatful.
Open your Logitech G-series Keyboard Profiler (probably one of your taskbar icons).
Click on the button you want to assign, eg g9 or g12. Click Macro Manager.
Create a new macro. Pick a key you dont use for anything else. I chose F9-F12 type keys.
While recording, press the chosen button once. Stop recording. Manually insert a time delay after the press down, and after the release. It will look like this:
F11 Down
0.020 delay
F11 Up
0.020 delay
Press OK out of that window, and click on the g15 button you used again, and click Repeat Options -> While Pressed. This will make the cycle loop while you press the g15 button.
So now go back into WoW. I use Bongos action bars, and I make an action bar with low opacity and very small, and I put it in the corner of my screen (or just hide it). I set the bar to around 4 buttons, and I assign the ingame macro to the appropriate button, then assign that button to the F11 hotkey, which in turn makes the g15 button work.
So now when you hold down the button, it will "push down F11" every 0.040 seconds. If you tighten up the time too much, it can slow your WoW fps quite a lot, so I dont recommend using 0.005 delay or anything that small.
Thats the easy part. Actually finding a macro that does dps close to hand weaving is the hard part.
Another odd note, while I was testing KC, I was out in Blasted Lands...and for whatever reason, noticed a much higher rate of my Auto Shot getting "stuck" then when I did it against Boom. I tried using the same macro, and other various settings, but for whatever reason, the rate at which Auto would get stuck, seemed higher. Latency was still around 140-150, so I dont think that was the issue. Very weird.
This also happened to me. Same macro, no KC or LB at all, the only difference was that my pet was attacking the mob, and I was in the Blasted Lands instead of Netherstorm. In hindsight, while I was there I should of put my pet on stay/passive when he had enough threat and then tried it. Maybe next time.. The chaining was almost non-existant at Dr Boom, but I was chaining like a madman in Blasted Lands. Unfortunately, my Blasted Land results is a more accurate representation of raiding results with that macro. In fact I've only ever tried using a macro in raids for around a total of 3 minutes in the last few months. Every now-and-then I try one, then I realise it's either chaining steadyshots constantly or clipping autoshots like a drunk trying to play a hunter.
I swear they're trying to fuck with us:
"Hey, lets make this macro work decently on the test-mob that hunters have resorted to using to find out anything about the class that we don't even know how it works so we haven't released any mechanics information on... but make it break with any single difference in latency/network traffic/fps/haste/weapon speed/zone change/server population/or if a butterfly shits on a molten giant."
"We could just make auto-shot like auto-attack"
"Dont be silly"
</cynicism>
Last edited by Intermission : 04/06/08 at 10:13 PM.
Reason: added second quote & response
I hadn't thought of using a 2:1 until a couple of days ago when it was brought back up in this thread - went to IC, Illidan and Hyjal last night and managed to get to 1400DPS sustained on some of the fights - the highest numbers I've seen yet, better than a 3:2 or 1.5:1
Used a 20/41 to do it, wonderful for the time you're able to sit and shoot, and so much more mana efficient - on IC I spent almost no time in Viper when i'd usually spend up to half the fight in it. I normally raid between 200-300ms - I was finding it clipping my autos a little, but not to a degree where I'd consider going to 3:2.
04/06/08, 4:32 AM
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