SURVIVAL Raiding in 2.1 - Page 68

Aern · 04/12/08, 1:35 PM

When you're running with a 50% crit rate in raids and dropping number well into the mid 2Ks on every crit, dropping 3% crit dmg really doesn't seem like a smart idea. Sure the extra haste proc if it went off enough would be nice, but haste procs go off as much when you don't need them to as when you do so you don't get the full benefit of them, which is also a reason I'm not much of a fan of 7/20/34. With crit dmg you're always getting the benefit of the effect the entire fight on every shot.

Not to mention you're actually losing about 15 agi once you add in BoK and LR. Not really something that excites me since even after farming Illidan for 6 months I've still not been able to convince my lazy guild mates to go back and do KT for my neck/cloak.

gggiiimmmppp · 04/12/08, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Aern

Not really something that excites me since even after farming Illidan for 6 months I've still not been able to convince my lazy guild mates to go back and do KT for my neck/cloak.

The neck is easily replacable by necklace of the deep... it's arguably even an upgrade if you can get your hands on two spinels to put into a blue neck. I never had any luck with the cloak either, though to be honest I'm loving the new outlook on haste because I can use the ZA haste cloak (which I saved from rotting a few months ago) relatively guilt-free and forget about fucking Kael.

Lakron · 04/12/08, 5:37 PM

I havee been fortunate to have gotten both my neck and cloak from KT, but recently I've switched to Cloak of Fiends and I like the results so far. As far as Necklace of the deep is concerned, I personally don't think that the increase in agi is worth the AP loss.

Aern · 04/12/08, 8:08 PM

Yeah I'm currently running cloak of fiends and will be picking up the next clutch that drops once i grab a GS belt to offset the hit loss (switched to Choker of Vile Intent once I got Felspine). I've also tested out the Necklace of the Deep with 2 LRs and I'm really not interested in dropping 2 spinels in it considering the AP you lose out on. Hopefully I'll have some more haste gear pretty soon and I'll be able to let yall know what type of numbers I'm putting up, no Hard Khorium Band pattern on the server makes me kinda sad though, even with 4 Felmyst killing guilds. /sigh @ drop rates on these patterns.

• Intermission · 04/12/08, 10:00 PM

I use my Kael Neck when I'm solo or in 5 mans, but Necklace of the Deep (+2 spinels) all the way for any single target dps raiding boss*. It's a 4 dps loss for me, with a gain of 18 agi which equates to roughly 10 raid-dps gain in my raids. Besides, I personally love walking around org with full 'best in game' gear (pre sunwell anyway) with a level 65 blue neck being one of them.

*eg Brutallus, Felmyst, Illidan, Council, Souls, Teron, Bloodboil, etc etc.

Tiberium · 04/13/08, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by Noryth

plz, any post the macro for 3:2?

If you bothered to read back a few pages you would find it. The macro give a 2:1 rotation not 3:2 when unhasted.

Anyway here it is again FYI

MACRO 1:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/click [target=pettarget,exists] BT3Button72
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

MACRO 2:

/castsequence reset=4 Kill Command, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot

Take the button for MACRO 1, place it somewhere you can mash it endlessly.

Take the button for MACRO 2, and place it on the last button space (right hand side) of Action Bar 6. If you have your action bars expanded out, collapse them, go to the 6th tab of buttons, and place it in the last spot. If you have an addon or mod that changes your buttons, turn it off, place the macro in the proper place and then reload your addon.

Replace the BT3 line with whatever bar mod you use, this is for Bartender.

Osse · 04/13/08, 8:29 AM

Now I got that (those) macro's working. Dont think anyone mentioned about addon specific commands before for action bars like BT3ButtonX. Flying to Blasted Lands to see how badly this clips.

Rane · 04/13/08, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Osse

Now I got that (those) macro's working. Dont think anyone mentioned about addon specific commands before for action bars like BT3ButtonX. Flying to Blasted Lands to see how badly this clips.

Aye, I use BT3 as well and was desperately looking for the command. Thanks loads!

Interested to see the results as so far I'm doing really well as Survival, only the shot clipping bugs me out.

Manito · 04/13/08, 9:24 AM

If you're using Bartender, there is an option to turn on the button "names" that will allow you to see what each buttons true name is, allowing you to reference it.

Ondskaben · 04/13/08, 9:29 AM

Use

/run local f = GetMouseFocus(); if f then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME: AddMessage(f:GetName()) end

- to get the name of the hotbarbutton you want. Do note that the one originally posted on page 63 has a syntax error (colon instead of semicolon after GetMouseFocus()) in it which is probably why many haven't gotten it to work.

Edit:
Might as well add that you need to hover your mouse over the desired button position when running this one (as stated on page 63). Oh, and your default chat channel needs to be something you can see. F.ex. if you have just been in a raid speaking in raid chat, and you attempt this while not being in one, well, it will show you nothing. Just do f.ex. a /say to switch before running it. If in doubt, go read page 63 =)

Osse · 04/13/08, 9:43 AM

So far I've gathered:

With 3.0 speed, 20-25ms, 25 clicks per second macro and 53 passive haste I seem to get 2.13:1 as average. That's a clip every 55 seconds for me I think. In a raid situation with the clips included it should be 30-40 dps increase. I guess it's time to get back to mostly farm fel mana pots as haste ones will only be used with SP group and when there's a retri pala in raid now. :/

Ondskaben · 04/13/08, 10:44 AM

I've found with 3.0 speed, 40-60ms and manual clicks (no G15) of around 3-6/sec and no passive haste my ratios have varied from 1.8:1 to 2.4:1.

Aym · 04/13/08, 8:07 PM

Ondskaben pointed me towards this thread the other day, and i thought this was the right time to finally mess about and get myself registered. Using Kurkis's rotation macro has dramasticly improved my DPS.

Im usually a 20/41 survival hunter (with readiness and no TOTH/Efficiency, if you wonder), and now i tried to spec an odd 7/20/34 spec. I was very sceptical but decided to test it on a raid.

I started on Teron, where i was doing 1464 DPS. That try i did not have a bloodlust, which made my DPS from today hard to judge. In any case, i popped a DPS of 1895. Bloodlust was the only real difference, although you've got to keep in mind that when i had my 20/41 spec i would use double rapid fires with readiness, so the extra one or two rapid fires (depending on the length of the fight) might make up for the bloodlust altogether. Long story short, my DPS was increased by 431 with the new supermacro. Oh, last Teron i was BM specced just for the fun of it, and i did 1972 damage in a mostly similar group. Just fun to see i was only 77 DPS away from what i can do as BM, while buffing expose weakness, obviously

Then we went to Sunwell and had our second Brutallus kill. On the first one, i had a DPS of 1498, which i thought was pretty sweet for a survival hunter. Today, using the new system, getting one bloodlust, 2 rapid fires, some drums that i didn't keep track of and however many haste potions i could chug down i had a DPS of.. dundundundun: 1849. During that fight, i kept up scorpid sting and hunters mark constantly.

I might probably have gotten a few more drums than last time, but a few drums here and there is not going to make up for 350 DPS. I should mention that i have no haste gear at all at the moment, but im thinking that i can tweak it a little bit using Felspine and Choker of Whateveritscalled from Brutallus which should hopefully give me enough haste to stop clipping *some* of the auto shots. Also, im still using hourglass of the unraveler - Madness trinket will help on the 2%ish miss i have (yeah, i know) and we would see an even bigger DPS increase. It can only go up from here.

Sure, i didn't have to move for a burn, but still, its a rather signifigant increase.

EDIT: WWS stats show a final DPS of 1865 on Brutallus. Here it is, for good messure: WWS Loading...

• Intermission · 04/13/08, 9:03 PM

So, I'm a fucking tool and got capped till the 17th, so no 1:1.5 comparison test on Brutallus from me this week

Unless I convince the guild to raid BT/Hyjal before Sunwell this week!

Cathzilla · 04/13/08, 9:56 PM

Maybe you guys can help, after browsing the forums and reading about new macros and KC and I am having crazy problems with chaining steadys on Brut. Sometimes I hit 4 in a row before and auto will go off

. I've tried all of the different macros with no results. I have around 150ms(lol) and do not have a g15 or g11. Anyone have any ideas?

EDIT: Yea armory is messed up my other trinket is DST

• Intermission · 04/13/08, 10:13 PM

double post

• Intermission · 04/13/08, 10:14 PM

Make sure you stop spamming the macro when he casts Slash on you, you take the damage and steady knockback, then let the auto go, then start the cycle again. Not waiting a bit after a Slash pushback will cause 3+ steadies I found. An even better option is to stop the macro when he casts Slash and pump out a Multi and Arcane then go back to steady/auto, mana permitting.

If it's happening outside the Steadyshot pushback times, then I'm not sure. It just happens sometimes. Network/server jitters maybe? Dunno. Your latency doesnt rule out the macro, mine worked decently with 180-200ms. It may depend on your passive haste or the method you use KC.

edit: wrong wws link, fixed it.

Cathzilla · 04/13/08, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Intermission

Make sure you stop spamming the macro when he casts Slash on you, you take the damage and steady knockback, then let the auto go, then start the cycle again. Not waiting a bit after a Slash pushback will cause 3+ steadies I found. An even better option is to stop the macro when he casts Slash and pump out a Multi and Arcane then go back to steady/auto, mana permitting.

If it's happening outside the Steadyshot pushback times, then I'm not sure. It just happens sometimes. Network/server jitters maybe? Dunno. Your latency doesnt rule out the macro, mine worked decently with 180-200ms. It may depend on your passive haste or the method you use KC.

I'll give it a shot

Catalept · 04/14/08, 2:22 AM

After bashing some numbers around, I can't seem find a way to get Quick Shots to drop a 3.0 (or even 2.8) speed weapon to a 3:2 rotation without stacking large amounts of passive haste. Unless I'm missing something important, the shot rotation timing graphs for a 3.0 weapon with QS and quiver, vs. a 2.8 weapon with SS and quiver (plus a little passive haste), would look as follows:

So... either I'm missing something, or taking Imp.AotH is not particularly useful...

Seven · 04/14/08, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

Make sure you stop spamming the macro when he casts Slash on you, you take the damage and steady knockback, then let the auto go, then start the cycle again. Not waiting a bit after a Slash pushback will cause 3+ steadies I found. An even better option is to stop the macro when he casts Slash and pump out a Multi and Arcane then go back to steady/auto, mana permitting.

If it's happening outside the Steadyshot pushback times, then I'm not sure. It just happens sometimes. Network/server jitters maybe? Dunno. Your latency doesnt rule out the macro, mine worked decently with 180-200ms. It may depend on your passive haste or the method you use KC.

edit: wrong wws link, fixed it.

I totaly agree with you. We did our first Brutallus kill yesterday, and I ran the spec with iAotH. Everytime my group got slashes I switched to manual rotation with arcane or refreshed scorpid sting. Whenever I saw chaining steadys, I shot off an arcane shot or released the macro for a second to start the auto again. I'll insert my WWS when the server is back online.

Aiyakido · 04/14/08, 11:21 AM

Oke.

First of hi to you all, im a new survival hunter (specced to it a few days agon from BM)

i used to do a nice and easy shot rotation, but im starting to get trouble with it. Reading this post i got a bit confused so i ahd some questions.

Asuming you guys know the macro used for BM shot rotation i was wondering two things.

Is there a simular way of a macro for Survival hunters (here i presume that a survival hunter wants to weave in arcane and multy shots) were you cna get the timing between your shots almost perfect from "spamming"1 button.

from what point do you keep stacking Agility and ignore beter DPS items and vise versa.

last question. I dont really get the terms 3:2 and 1:2. I always thought 1:2 was a steady shot/autoshot rotation, but no clue for the 3:2.

Diasx · 04/14/08, 2:36 PM

Hi,

Just a few quick(hopefully) questions.

Im currently geared through KZ with chances at SSC loot now and I thinking about testing the 7/20/34 build with the dual macro setup.

Here is my raiding gear Diasx

I know the belt is low, but as I was planning on buying the war feather loop, the 2.4 badges were announced and I have saved for the crossbow. And I never got the Wolfslayer due to never seeing it drop.

So, here is my question. Is the 7/20/34 a viable spec currently for me DPS-wise or am I better using the 41/20 BM spec until I obtain haste gear? Is the 7/20/34 spec dependent on haste gear or does it function ok with no clipping without haste?

Tokrah · 04/14/08, 5:03 PM

You should be specced 41/20/0 with your gear. Survival to begin with is more gear dependent than what you have, and the 7/20/34 build is far more gear dependent than that. Stick with BM until you have 700ish unbuffed/unspecced agility, and stick with a standard survival build after that until you have 4 piece t6 and some passive haste, and maybe a dst.

Diasx · 04/14/08, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tokrah

You should be specced 41/20/0 with your gear. Survival to begin with is more gear dependent than what you have, and the 7/20/34 build is far more gear dependent than that. Stick with BM until you have 700ish unbuffed/unspecced agility, and stick with a standard survival build after that until you have 4 piece t6 and some passive haste, and maybe a dst.

Thank you

Very good response and gives me an idea of what I'm shooting for

Evanescent · 04/14/08, 5:35 PM

I'd like to add that i don't think the requirements are as severe to switching to the 7/20/34 spec as Tokrah suggests. I only have 2 piece t6, and just Embrace of the Phoenix for haste and have seen massive improvements in my personal dps since switching to 7/20/34.

I was also wondering what trinkets people run in this spec. Mine are currently the low point on my gear (no longer running anything besides BT and SW) and i was wondering if the Ashtongue Talisman would trump either the hourglass or the brooch since steady shot is the cornerstone of this rotation, even more so than a typical BM rotation. Thanks!