Osse

You mean drop it to 3:2 rotation with slighly over 20% haste when using 3.0 speed weapon.

1:1 with weapon speed close to 2 is not that spectacular dps.






I still havent been able to get pets included automatically to my WWS logs even though I type /combatlog instantly after restarting client and then uploading that without any cutting.

WWS Loading...

( pet here: Wind Serpent - WWS )

Total dps for me 1700+295 = 1995.

I guess 0/20/41 is not so bad option for those who havent had the luck with DST. I got one burn on that go and wasnt able to use readiness at all as I kind of fucked up the cooldown rotations.. Boss died same second as readiness cooldown was ready. :|

Suppose on a "clean" go 2.1k is doable with this group setup.

No heroisms btw.

 

Nebelwerfer

Grab the WWSA addon: Index of /WWSA

It begins logging immediately once you enter a zone, very handy, and I've never noticed any issues with pets since 2.4.

 

Aern

Well I've been testing out 7/20/34, don't really have an opinion oh how its preforming next to 20/41 but I am noticing with steady spam and KC i'm running into huge mana problems pretty early. Not running a ret pally makes me sad. Other thing is the proc rate on Quick Shots is really pretty terrible. I've easily gone 2 min without getting a single proc. The proc rate is no where dst which makes me very sad and wonder how much average up time per minute we can expect from QS. Also what exactly are we looking at for a 1:1 rotation on a 3.0 in terms of haste number and percentage. I'm looking at my character pane which says i'm at 2.61 with a 15% quiver so right there off the bat either I'm only getting 13% or blizzard doesn't know how to do math. Adding another 27% to that ends up looking at a 1.8 passive speed which works out to 425 haste. 20% passive haste before quiver puts you at a 2.01 regular speed requiring 315 which is still a rather large amount even in the top haste gear. So at what haste rating would it be reasonable to expect to be able to attain and not waste any haste by throwing your rotation into something faster than what it needs to be at (i.e. dropping it from a regular 3:2 to something slightly faster than 3:2 but not at 1:1.)

Going through some of the new drops and craftable sunwell gear I've put together a set that adds up to anywhere from 320-330 haste depending on what pieces of leather gear you go with which would force you to go with GS legs to keep 4pc, or a slightly less haste heavy set that can range anywhere from 223-301 depending on how much armor pene leather gear you want to go with. Even with all that gear you're toping out at around a 2sec cast on auto shot passive while also losing alot of personal stats. So I guess we're gonna be tied to haste procs/pots/full time drums to get us into a 1:1 rotation.

 

Gearknight

You need to brush up on your haste math, not blizzard.

3.0 / 1.15 = 2.61. Looks fine to me.

2.61 / 1.27 = 2.05, not 1.8.

3.0 / (1.15*1.20) = 2.17, not 2.01.

 

Aiyakido

So basicly speccing for rapid fire with a readiness (never really came up to me that this is also resetted :O) to be abel to keep up rapid fire at all time, stack as manny haste items as possible wiktout loosing to much other stats (For instance the halberd from sunwel plateau) and using the DST trinket (wich i STILL need to get God dammit) will enable you to almost always keep up the 1:1 and 3:2 with procs?


Considering this is it also interesting for me to get the 150 badge bow or just stick with the Archimonde bow?

also just now abacus of the violent odds came to mind. (use increase haste rating by 260 (for 10 sec or something like that) 2 min coldown.

This is how your increase would look like then

0:00 Rapid fire (40% attack speed inc)
0:15 Rapid fire (readiness) (macro /cast readiness /stopcasting /cast rapid fire)
0:30 Abacus of the violent odds (260 haste rating)
0:40 haste potion (400 haste rating)
0:55 drums of battle (80 haste rating)
1:25 Possible shaman Heroism/Bloodrage (30% attackspeed inc) or <downtime>
1:55 <downtime>
2:30 Abacus of the violent odds
2:40 haste potion
2.55 drums of battle
3:25 Rapid fire
3:40 <downtime>
4:30 Abacus of the violent odds
4:40 haste potion
4:55 down time


Now from this point it gets trickey. Do you activate your readiness at 5:15 to get your rapid fire of CD or wait till 6:25 to use it again since its already 1:50 min in its CD.

Appart from that, it dosn't really appeal to me. Besides from the fact that you will need to get leatherworking, stack loads of haste pots and need a shaman in your group, you will also need to give up a trinket slot for Abacus, and make yourself unabel to make use of mana/health pots.
Besides that you'll create a downtime (meaning time were you dont get any haste effects) of first 35 seconds, and second 50 seconds.

Ofcourse that wil be seriously reduced if you gte a second or even third drums of war user in your party.

Having just cleared my own idea from the table ill ahve to come up with a second option that i like better. I found some items wich wont decrease your Stats (by a lot) and that give haste rating.

Bracers:
[Swiftstrike Bracers] 27 haste rating
[Bindings of Lightning Reflexes] 27 haste rating

Belts:
[Valestalker Girdle] 36 haste rating
[Shadow-walker's Cord] 37 haste rating

Rings:
[Band of Devastation] 31 haste rating
[Hard Khorium Band] 28 haste rating

Shoulders:
[Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes] 37 haste rating
[Shoulderpads of Vehemence] 30 haste rating

Heads:
[Duplicitous Guise] 34 haste rating

Gloves:
[Fletcher's Gloves of the Phoenix] 34 haste rating

Chests:
[Embrace of the Phoenix] 44 haste rating

one-handed weapons:
[Fang of Kalecgos] 25 haste rating

Necks:
[Clutch of Demise] 30 haste rating
[Hard Khorium Choker] 29 haste rating

Two-handed weapons:
[Shivering Felspine] 53 haste rating

backs:
[Cloak of Fiends] 25 haste rating

using these items you could get up to a haste rating of around 319 (thats without gems)
Now using these items and combining it with the right hit items you can use some haste rating gems and probably get as high as 339 haste from items. You also still have 4 t6 items this way.
339 haste rating is 20,5923% haste increase from items.

with a 3.00 attackspeed bow this would mean you wil get a 2.07 AS.
with the 2.8 badge bow you can go even as low as 1.93 AS

this sounds loads of more apealing to me, as i dont wanna have to spend to much of my concentration on starting trinkets and buffs in time and still have the ability to use potions and stuff. (now only to find even more way's of getting that last 0.30 speed off)

Only problem is. You'll have to get some sunwell items before you can do this. But in time that should be no problem.

 

mightywind

I am a long time reader, but first time poster

I am not in sunwell content yet, however, im wondering at what paperdoll speed will a 1:1x rotation become less effective that switching to a 3:2? Or, in other words, what kind of haste would I be looking at to tighten up a 1:1.5 rotation with a 2.9 or 3.0 speed weapon?

Currently using the 0/28/33 build and a 2.9 speed weapon (steam pistol) and I dont have a DST. Would even trying to gain a few haste items be worth it at this level?

 

Sore82

First of all, did they add +Haste gems that work with melee/range attacks? I had thought they only added +Spell Haste gems, which do nothing for us. I could be wrong though, but I could not find any +Melee/Range Haste on Wowhead or Thottbot.

Next, while this is a good idea on paper, I still see it as a huge loss to agi stats compared to what you could be wearing in other slots. On many of the items that have +haste on the, they do not have sockets, however when you look at another item that is of the same quality and has no +Haste (maybe +Armor Pen), it will have sockets on it. I have no doubt that stacking some passive Haste will be a big benefit to us in the long run, but trying to stack that much just seems like overkill.

I guess in the end it doesnt really matter...this is supposed to be the last instance before WotLK comes out, and once guilds start having KJ on farm status, spec/gear wont matter nearly as much.

 

Novacaine

I managed to get my DST yesterday on a very lucky Gruul's run (lucky since i managed to get my guild there on the "free raid day", and lucky cos it's like the 2nd DST my guild has seen so far).

Today I did some testing that I'd like to share with all those people like me that still have not achieved the 4 Pieces T6 bonus and don't have the proper bow (I am using [Crossbow of Relentless Strikes] while waiting Archimonde or Illidan to drop their respective bows).

Those tests were achieved on a 5 tests per rotation on Dr. Boom using the 7/20/34 Survival build. Using HM, AoTH, DST, Rapid Fire and 32dps Arrows.

3:2 macro -> 992 dps
1:1.5 macro -> 1130 dps
1:1.5 (while non hasted) + 3:2 (while hasted by Rapid Fire + DST) -> 1170 dps

Of course all those results are the average of 5 tests. Crit rates averages were consistent with my paperdoll crit rate, while procs (such as IAoTH, DST, Ashtongue talisman) were pretty much the same.

It could be interesting to se Lesue / Intermission / Kurkis results on Dr. Boom and compare those numbers and see how they evolve with superior gearing and different Survival talent setup (0/20/41).

 

Osse

Testing 1:1.5 and 3:2 macro differences should be done in Blasted Lands to get results similar to what you would get in raid environment. Arcane shot is hugely favored when testing at Dr. Boom.

 

Whitefyst

Maybe you changed stuff up a little and didn't share it with us, but some things just do not add up.

You list all this haste gear, which includes 6 of the 8 slots for T6 gear but still state that you have the 4 set T6 bonus. If so, what 2 pieces did you drop from the analysis, and did you remember to drop them?

 

Novacaine

Yeah that's true, but if everyone runs tests like I did on Dr. Boom, we can compare those results, since arcane shots gets favored for everyone.

But it's true, I might as well do these tests in the blasted lands.

 

Vida

Question to Intermission.
What debuffs are you guys running on Brut, and do certain debuffs take priority over others? It seems that according to my WWS, I get in just as much if not more shots with a close 3:2-1:1 rotation, one BL and no feral, but average damage per shot is considerably weaker.

The World of Warcraft Armory My gear is not that far off from yours, I roll with a little more haste and a bit less hit, Ring of Deceitful Intent goes in place of the Wrath for bosses.

Vi - WWS For Brut kill. Had a burn, so time wasted there.
122 x 1060 Steadies. vs 111 x 1160+
89 x 1038 Autos. vs 86 x 1110+

Group was
BM
BM
Resto Sham
SV
Lock

Thanks.

 

• Intermission

When looking at our WWS's:
Vi - WWS - Vi
Intermission - WWS - Inter

The shot counts are different than you suggest. I see:

Vi
SS: 122 hit + 85 crit = 207 total steadies
AS: 89 hit + 55 crit = 144 total autos

Inter
SS: 111 hit + 103 crit = 214 total steadies
AS: 86 hit + 61 crit = 147 total steadies

Your figures only include the hits, you need to click on the bar and view the dropdown to see the crits and stats like average crit/non crit damage.

As for the difference in average damage, I had 3 BM hunters in my party, so an extra 3% dmg there. Our shaman also had enhanced totems. We had all usual debuffs (CoR, Blood Frenzy, FF, etc) except for our Ret pally who couldn't make it that night (loss of 3% crit, and also went oom at 3%, after dropping KC at ~20%).

Also, I used a Ravager and you used an Owl. I didnt Scorpid Sting that kill either, you may have. All those factors probably equate to the ~450 dps dif, as the shot numbers are quite close.

PS: Last kill when I was Scorpid Stinging, I had trouble breaking 2100, it really is a large loss of dps, but obviously a huge gain for healers.

 

Uday

What happened to testing the 1.5 hand weave this week, Inter? Your WWS from this morning only shows one multi and 2 arcanes =(

 

Aiyakido

I you take T6 gloves, boots, bracers and belt and then fill the rest with the highest haste items your done (sorry bout not mentioning that ^^)

And indeed to the other guy. I probably made the haste gems up. Thinking about it i also think there are none available

 

• Intermission

I actually tested Wind Serpent with /cast/cast instead. It failed massively, imo, which is why I have a Ravager on the kill. (We wiped a full night to tank deaths, so I got a LOT of Wind Serpent attempts. We one shot him last night at least).

It didnt look like we were going to have a Ret pally so I didnt respec to a 1:1.5 setup before the raid, but we got him in anyway.

Next week I promise!

 

IHAFLOTZBALLZ

Hey there, i think im a first time poster, and was just gonna ask if anyone has seen the 2 new melee weapons for hunters that came in 2.4? I didnt find a single post about them anywhere yet according this matter..

[Shivering Felspine] and [The Blade Of Harbingers]

They both seem to have 53 haste, and i wondered why..then i noticed that a 3.0 speed ranged, and quiver/pouch + 53 haste = 20.0% speed, which then leads to 3.0 speed = 2.5 speed..i hope, writing this in the middle of the night.

That brings us to the spec and the rotation..if one were to take imp arc 5/5, you would get a 5 sec CD, and that seems to sort of fit in right? you could have a macro (that already exists) and really spam it with !auto, steady, AS, auto, steady, auto, steady, AS...etc.
You would get an arcane shot every other cycle...seems too perfect to be true? prolly, i havent tried it yet.

And because of that rotation, you would need some wierd spec, or thats what i think atleast, since using AotH with imp AotH will ruin the rotation quite..so why not try MM again? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
or SV? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

That's my 2 cents, i hope someone can try it out, and i know the latency will not make it work 100%...but im keeping my thumbs up

EDIT: Just noticed wowhead says 53 haste = 3.36% while thottbot says 5.0%..anyway, im getting an auto attack speed of 2.52 in cheekys, and i guess that will help ppl with a little bit of latency

 

Aern

Yeah I wasn't really sure on how exactly the numbers were done, looked around a bit and had my questions answered fairly quickly. Oh well, it doesn't apply quite the way I thought it did, learn something new everyday.

 

Uday

How big was the difference between wind serpent and ravager for you? If I remember correctly, on our WWS form the other week, your ravager did almost exactly 5% more DPS than my wind serpent, which is explained by your racial.

 

Tidewell

First time post here!


Seeing that we're getting on the subject of pets here briefly, I was wondering for the Survival Hunters who are progressing into Sunwell - what kind of pets they are using and how they are choosing to spec them?


Thanks

 

Nebelwerfer

Would love to use my wind serpent. Having to use my owl though to assist in debuffing. Arcane resist and shadow resist for Kalecgos seem to be the prime ones. I'm yet to see Brutallus, but hoping to do so on Sunday/Monday.

 

Sore82

I dont really understand the reason people are using Owls in Sunwell...their Screech debuff not only uses up a debuff slot, but also is very minimal AP loss to the target. If the only thing keeping your tanks alive is a -210AP debuff, then there are a lot more problems going on.

As for what pet to us; the general standard is use a Ravager if you have LESS than 35% crit, if you have MORE than 35% crit, then go for a Windserpent. A Windserpent has a higher focus dump especially when paired with GftT.

 

ugla

The thing about screech is, there are other AP debuffs. A DPS warrior with Improved Demoralizing Shout and Screech more than makes up for Curse of Recklessness. Though I'd say it's only worthwhile on Brutallus right now--he's the only boss that's currently killing tanks in a couple seconds, and survival hunters doing a full support role shouldn't mind bringing an owl for 1 fight. I'm sure in a few months I won't be bringing an owl to Brutallus any longer, once tanks stop having to clench their buttocks during the fight.

But yeah, for almost all fights, if your crit rate is high enough get a wind serpent. They will do a lot of damage with their focus dump, and they don't leave melee range much anymore to use it if you don't want to macro it.

As far as specing your pet, resists seem to keep my pet alive a lot more reliably than stam/armor buffs. The majority of magic damage in sunwell that's resistable is arcane and shadow damage on Kalecgos. Pets are immune to Brutallus's specials, and Felmyst's aura cannot be resisted. The Eredar twins do shadow and fire damage, though I'm not sure if pets are suseptible or if it can be resisted.

 

Vida

Intermission

Thanks for your reply, sorry about the hit/crit miscount. The extra number of hits could be explained by your 2nd lust aswell, and me having to haul my ass with a burn.
Our guild is not exactly hunters forthcoming, they rather have a lock leeching the BM buffs and a BM hunter shoved in to a tank group than give us full synergy . I switch between BM and SV on a regular basis, and had a blast last week pushing 2420 on Brut, thats why I was concerned with this week's subpar result, because a loss of 600 dps might not be a better thing.

 

abron

Hi,

I know, it's not the right place to post this but i've read this thread always with much interest though my place is the beastmaster-bible. But your thoughts to max dps on brutallus brought into my mind: what would happen if i do as you do with a marksspec ... we had no raidduty in sunwell tonight and went for a short 2 hour clear run in hyjal. So i tried - not prepared - a 17/44/0 with skilled multi to do a 2:1 with one steady replaced by an multi and 3:2 or 1:1 while hasted. I have no idea wether this could really be an option and there are many things to try around. There are some haste items like shiv, khorium-ring and bindings to switch in as well as all 3 endbows available for me like archi-, illi- and crossbow. Raidsettings have been suboptimal, the spec maybe aswell so i don't put too much into my second places on the meter at for example kaz. I will respec tomorrow for raidprogress of course but your very nice conclusions an thoughts made me interested in testing out uncommon things.

Thanks very much for that.