Here's my guild's really sloppy brut kill... only 1 lust.. 3 drummers, only 1 BM hunter, first time I've been survival since we were learning archi (Runishi is usually survival hunter) but I'd been reading up on this stuff and wanted to give it a whirl.

Wow Web Stats

Kinda crazy that a so-called "utility spec" can put out #1 dps on a dps intensive fight. 2237 dps... my personal best on this fight as BM was 2524, and that was with 2 bloodlusts.

Thanks to everyone who's done the research and shared with the community their results; everyone was completely blown away.

Now if DPS was all that mattered for twins... /sigh

I must jump on the 7/20/34 wagon even thought I don't own a DST (BIG SIGH HERE). Curious if quick shots + 53 haste + 3.0 speed + 20 ms = very tight 2:1 rotation. Should be 2.194 auto shot rate and 1.097 steady cast. In theory 2x steady should take 2.195 to cast but does the 0.02 latency make /cast macro turn the rotation to 1:1?

Meh. Will see later today when I respec and go to Blasted Lands.

That depends on the rate you are abled to spam the macro. In theory you can squeeze out two steadys with only 10ms in between. With a G15 keyboard or a Mx510+ Mouse this should be possible.
It seems to me like the client can queue up a little part of the steady spam so that you are abled to shoot steadies with allmost no gap even if your latency is high.
I took that piece of information out of the BM thread.

I switched servers and guild this week and my new guild colleague came up with this:

Lets imagine we have a bow speed of 3.0
The sweet spot of haste for falling into a 3:2 rotation with the /cast/cast macro would be 140.
So with a full "drummer-gang" an amount of 60 passive haste (or more) should be enough for that.
I have to confess I could'nt test theese numbers yet because of missing haste gear atm.

Can anybody make a more profund analysis of these numbers, please?

I am at the same progression as, except we have Vashj on farm and killed Kael(!!!) for the first time this monday.
This is my WWS from Winterchill, doing the 2:1 click macro.
So it should be something to compare with, but compared with your guild, I would say you are where you should be.

Rage Winterchill 0/20/41

I got 2 drums, one heroism and had a BM in my grp. I also used a haste pot since mana wasnt an issue.

Edit : Double post ftl, please delete.

Hello,
I've been a survial hunter for a few weeks running a 0/20/41 spec. Ive been trying to get the handwoven 1:1.5 ratio down and im slowly getting there. I feel though that im doing something wrong and since im not the best theory crafter in the world im hoping people can point somethings out to me and if possible outline a 1:1.5 rotation better(macro or handwoven) because ive been doing it like this for no CC:Auto-SS-Arc-Auto-SS-Auto-SS-Auto-SS-Multi and for CC: AS-SS-Arc repeat untill arcane shot its back. Also my guild is 3/4TK 6/6 SSC 2/5 MH

heres a link to my Armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory i dont have dst my other trinket is the bloodlust broach

And our MH(rage aneth)WWS
Wow Web Stats
i didnt have the ideal group i wanted for the night mainly a shaman but o well

100% hit with 3/3 surefooted is either 95 or 97, I can't recall exactly. I've never really paid much attention to Attunmen as he is a joke, but he does have a curse, perhaps you got hit with it and it has a -hit debuff to it?

EDIT: FYI 142 is the 0/3 Surefooted hit cap.

AWESOME!

Thank you very much. This means I can replace some hit gems with agil gems.

As far as Attumen, thanks for reminding me of his curse, that explains my dilemma.

From WowWiki:
"Intangible Presence: A reflectable AoE curse cast every 30 seconds that reduces chance to hit with melee and ranged attacks and spells by 50%. The area of the curse is centered on Attumen's current target."

Thanks

Tried out 7/20/34 without DST on Brutallus today.

Wow Web Stats 1957 dps

No heroisms, 1 burn, only drummer in the group. Dont know if JoW dropped off at one point as I had to pop fel mana pot on one cd.

I got 1995 dps as 0/20/41 and that was with exact same group setup with one burn. I messed up readiness and missed one rapid fire so dont know how big increase it would have been. Even though I had shit RNG with auto shot crit this week I reckon 0/20/41 is better for hunters without DST.

Just compared my average damage to Pippyns and wow.. its.. huge. Awesome then. I guess CoR lock of FF druid were slacking.

Quick question. What is the DPS difference between Windserpent spamming Lightning breath, and a Ravager spamming Gore? Windserpent is fairly cool and all but, I much prefer the Ravager for many reasons non of which are DPS related. This is in terms of a Survival Hunter at about 45% crit rate all raid buffed.

First, to be clear, the 1:1.5 rotation is:

auto-steady-special-auto-steady-auto-steady-special-auto-steady (repeat)

Where the special is either arcane shot or multishot with the following caveats:
- All of the specials can be arcane if you have IAS (which I personally do not prefer since you are spending ranks to get what you can accomplish using multi too) in which case the rotation is simplified to:
auto-steady-arcane-auto-steady (repeat)
- If you do not have IAS, then one of the specials needs to be arcane shot and the other multishot. Which you use first is preferential, but I suggest whichever shot currently does the most damage for you currently since you will be doing it more often with resuming your rotation after interruptions, although then you may have the multi CD to worry about, in which case you use arcane instead. You also will not be casting your arcane shot everytime it comes off CD, which is every 6s. Instead, depending on weapon speed, you will be casting it about every 10s or so.

Note that this has exactly 2 auto-steadies between every special. (Silentsldr, your rotation listed will result in clipping since you are doing back to back specials after consecutive auto-steadies. If you added another auto-steady at the end, then you would have a successful 1:1.4 rotation in which you are using specials after 2 of 5 steadies or 40% of them.)

For the CC 1:1.3 rotation (a special after every 3rd steady), it should look like:

auto-steady-arcane-auto-steady-auto-steady (repeat)

When unhasted, you arcane shot will become available somewhere between the second and third steady casts.

If you are hand-weaving, here is the method that I use, which is one of many.

I have a /cast /cast auto-steady macro since that is pretty reliable for me. On either side of that, I have the arcane shot and multishot abilities so that I can monitor their cooldowns. I start my rotation by hitting the auto-steady macro. The next shot in my rotation, whether it is steady, arcane, or multishot, is cast during the last 0.5 seconds of the current steady cast. If everything is performed correctly, the auto shots will cast at the appropriate locations.

I have not found any ideal macros that fully implement the standard 1:1.5 rotations and works under all situations for all people, so I do as I mentioned above.

Concerning clipping, there are several ways to know whether you are doing it or not. These include:
1) Visually watching the shots. If you have the rotation down correctly, you should see an extra shot being cast that you are not explicitly casting go off in all the places an auto should in the rotation shortly after cast the shot before it. So, on the steady-auto part of the rotation, you should see an auto cast shortly after the completion of the steady cast. If one the specials part, you should see pretty much the same event except for the special cast between the steady and auto.
2) Having a monitoring tool like Quartz. On my Quartz is a little gray autoshot bar that counts the time down to the next autoshot above my actual cast bar. If this autoshot bar gets interrupted, you have clipped your autoshot.
3) Check your shot log to make sure that your autos are firing in all of the correct locations

For me, clipping usually occurs when I cast my next attack too early in the current steady shot cast.

The hit cap is indeed 95.

Mainly because after a while you get cross eyed watching two bars for 4 hours per night!

A macro is almost as good in ideal situations and is usually better when you're not quite on the ball.

It amazes me that a year after release of TBC, people are still shooting pre-TBC rotations.

Aimed shot doesn't work in current rotations, and it's usefulness as a MD pull shot is arguable. The only use I find for it anymore is to cut down the target's healing recieved due to the recently added debuff. (works wonders in heroic bot on the last boss)

You're not the only one... 2/3 hunters in my guild that have asked for help in increasing their dps.. that was a major cause.

A little pet help here please. I am finally breaking my 2set t5 in favor of t6, we are currently 5/5mh and 5/9bt. I use a windserpent and haven't used mend pet in months based on the 2 piece bonus, so I am a bit the times in worrying about my pet since I essentially had a hot on it all the time. What is the best way to spec a pet to keep it alive. I think I can dump bite altogether since it very seldom goes off since I'm spamming LB. Is it best to max out fire and shadow and the rest in health?

I switched with our regular survival hunter for this week (usually BM), so I am gemmed a little more selfishly (10 crit gem). Also it seems as though you didn't get a Heroism, unless I completely fail at reading wws. Another possibility for the lower average numbers you're seeing, is that I've got quite a significant bit more armor pen, so it might not be all your druid/warlock's fault! In fact, looking over Brutallus' buffs and debuffs, there's only one listing each for CoR and FF, so either they let it fall off and didn't care for the rest of the fight, or they were kept up the whole time.

Pippyn a question u have 61 haste rating on a 3.0 bow which macro did u use can u post it would be nice and i wonder if its worth to have the crossbow of badges and have haste or ?? what shall i have as survival kinda new to the surv spec. and is there an armor pen cap u can have or ?

It's preference and what is more important for you ot your guild.

My belief is that you should almost always have 3/3 in EW since the crit rate at which the difference in total raid DPS between 2/3 EW and 3/3 EW becomes near zero is unrealistically high. Otherwise, you are costing yourself and your raid too much DPS.

For example using my character with his 1:1.5 rotation, when fully buffed I have 51.82% crit and my EW uptime is 99.20% for an average EW of 304.62. And my TotH provides 13.68% average mana recovery per shot.

Now if I went 3/3 TotH and 2/3 EW, my EW uptime is 93.71% for an average EW of 287.76. Having only 2/3 in EW cost my raid 16.86 AP or about 33.72 DPS. In addition, my personal DPS dropped by 4.8. So that is a total loss of 38.52 raid DPS. On the rother hand, my average mana return is up to 20.73% for a gain of 7.05%.

Please keep in mind that these numbers were done with performing the perfect rotation, which as you all know does not realistically happen. When not performing the ideal rotation, the additional EW uptime from 3/3 EW is even greater resulting in even a greater loss of DPS by going 2/3. While on the other hand, the non-perfect rotation results in less shots and less return from TotH.

To illustrate the effect of a non-ideal rotation, I created one with some small shot gaps to simulate moving and for a couple shots in the rotation missed or mistimed. With that, 3/3 EW gave 302.27 average EW AP and 13.58% average mana return while 3/3 TotH gave 278.86 and 20.57. This is a total raid DPS loss of 46.82 + 6.05 = 52.87 DPS for a gain of almost 7% mana.

Now even if I artifically give myself 181 crit to get 60% crit rate, which is very high, 3/3 EW and 2/3 TotH provides 306.36 average EW AP and 15.84% mana return. 2/3 EW and 3/3 TotH provides 296.12 and 24.01%. This is still a loss of about 20.4 raid DPS and 3.1 personal DPS for a total raid loss of 23.5 DPS when performing a perfect rotation. Once again with a non-perfectly performed rotation the benefit of 3/3 EW is greater and that of 3/3 TotH is smaller.

Please note that the increase in crit already improves the benefit of TotH, meaning to me even less reason to go to 3/3 TotH at higher crit rates.

The only situation in which I personally see 3/3 TotH being more beneficial is the case in which 3/3 TotH is needed to allow the hunter to not have to use any mana potions and allow them to use haste potions instead and that the extra DPS from using the haste potions would make up for the loss in DPS from having only 2/3 EW. Frankly, I do not forsee this situation being common, especially considering that the rotations that get the best benefit from haste is a steady shot rotation, which already uses less mana than a 1:1.5 rotation, and will therefore provide less of a mana return via TotH.

Raid Composition to acommodate the SV and BM hunter

As the topic says, considering the numbers now being posted by BM + SV hunters its high time to look at how best to compile a "generic" raid to support the Hunter Group. Obviously we all tend to stack exact raid compositions when learning new bosses to suit. But the main problem I have as a RL is getting full support for a hunter group whilst balancing the raid.

To be specific the generic premise I'm going to set is 8 healers, 2 Tanks and 15 DPS, actually looking at that you could say use Brutallus as a setup criteria.

So, instead of hunters generally whining along the lines of "I'll just drop a Shammy outa my ass to give heroism" etc lets make a valid case as to how Raid leaders should be setting up groups to support Hunters, more specifically SV Hunters, in these high DPS and haste requiring times.

So lets try see what we get.

Warrior MT
Druid OT
Pally
Lock
Druid Resto

Rogue
Rogue
Shammy Enh
Warrior DPS
Pally Retri

Priest Holy
Priest Holy
Priest Shadow
Shammy Resto
Shammy Resto

Mage
Mage
Pally
Lock
Lock

Shammy Resto
Druid Feral or Oomkin
Hunter SV
Hunter BM
Hunter BM

Swap in a resto for second heroism. All 5 members of group 5 should be "made" to go Leatherworking to ensure complete drum rotations are up on bosses. Is this as good as it gets?

Tiberium,
You gotta spread shamans around! But that's usually what the "hunter group" looks like in my guild's raids. Ends up with a resto shaman, feral druid, and whatever hunters are in the raid. A lot of the time, however, I'm the only hunter in a raid and end up in whatever group is short a person. It's depressing, but I always get a shaman who will drop grace of air for a fight that requires maximized DPS. Yay, DPS!

Can someone please explain how that work ? (I like to understand things :p)

Need a little help with my hit rating.

Yesterday I received the fourth part (chest) of my T6 set. Since it replaces the T5 chest piece (along with the T5 Shoulder in favor for the [Shoulders of the Hidden Predator]) I’ll be loosing a lot of hit rating.
Armory is linked on the left side.

It’s 58 hit rating at the moment, I need 78.
I was thinking about socketing 20 hit rating first (2 x 10 gem) but it seems like a bad idea to me. Another Option is to get [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality] and [Vanir's Left Fist of Brutality]. It has some hit rating and a nice haste rating boost too. Or swap the Necklace for [Worgen Claw Necklace]. But I rather keep this slot open for other options lateron.

Hmm, tough decision.
What would you do?

Plus, would it be wise to change my bracers against [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes] due to haste rating? Plus Vanir’s Set I would have around 70 haste rating. Should be quite ok for my 3.0 bow and steady:auto rotation.

Regards

The mechanics are explained on this thread

Manito's Modified 3:2 Steady Shot Macros

Gearing for hit post Illidan and pre Sunwell is a pain but having killed Illidan there are really loads of options to raise your Hit rating by 20, the most popular options are:-

[Tsunami Talisman] [Madness of the Betrayer] [Boneweave Girdle] [Quickstrider Moccasins] [Cursed Vision of Sargeras] [Insidious Bands] and [Ring of Deceitful Intent] not to mention the Gronstalker bits from Sunwell.

As for Haste rating the best combo as I see it is [Shivering Felspine] coupled with [Cloak of Fiends]