Aerevyn, wow, I never had such a constructive reply for my question. Thanks a LOT. I certainly now understand the value of a Survival Hunter. Thanks for your input!

If you use quartz or similar, you can see your current swing and/or ability (steady shot) cast time on the bars. You know what the amount is when youre unhasted, so basically if its different, your'e hasted

Ohrion's solution with ElkBuffBars also seem pretty neat.

I use Power Auras for that ...is still working fine, although not updated in a long time.
Power Auras | World of Warcraft Addons | World of Warcraft @ Curse.com

You get a customizable aura like this around your character (it also shows the timer on the buff gained):
http://media.curse.com/adjust_images...500/14/200.jpg

I configured it to show it anytime I receive a buff like Quick Shots, Heroism, Haste, Rapid Fire.

1500-1600 dps on Dr. Boom would be insane if that's what you mean. Also don't forget that Dr. Boom tests become warped when you use Arcane Shot and Multishot (multi hits bombs, arcane has a lower partial resist rate because of his lower level).

1100 on Dr. Boom suggests you're doing things right at any rate. Add to this raid buffs, drum rotations, heroism, rapid fire (unless you're already using that) and a fully sundered & CoR'd boss (also things arcane shot doesn't benefit from) and you'll begin to see the rewards.

It seems like SVs could put out true 3:2 BM rotations with a lot more crit and AP.
To to proove this point there is a simple method:

Try to aquire pieces of gear with haste on them, no matter what quality. Stack up 250 passive haste, move to blasted lands, start combatlog and shot the heck out of the testmob. Do the same procedure with your raid equipment.
After that plug in the endgame haste-gear into cheekys spreadsheet and calculate how hard each shot would hit on a standard raid boss.
Now multiply the damage with your shots, fired in blasted lands and calculate your DPS. Compare that to the DPS of your standard raidgear (calculated by recount or other Damagemeters in blasted lands).

Then you can see by which ammount your DPS will increase with theese endgame items.
No offense to cheeky, great work ,but I'm under the impression that the spreadsheet doesn't calculate SV DPS as accurate as BM DPS especialy with attackspeeds higher than 2,5s.

Whats the test mob in Blasted Lands?

Getting that much haste is still a waste imo, you need 17-18% passive haste to drop to 3:2 when you are under drums only, that's still a lot of itemization points.

In my opinion the best way to balance it is to get enough to drop to 3:2 when Iaoth pops, and drop to 1:1 with rapid fire / heroism / haste pot. That means 8-10% passive haste, i guess, haven't really had a chanche to stress test how much is needed.

Another option would be using a faster weapon, Doomwalker gun comes to my mind here. I'm not sure how it would balance considering you get more agi but less weapon damage, but i guess at least dwarf hunters could take it in consideration with their 1% crit racial.

Ok, so I've been playing around alot in the spreadsheet and have come to a stunning conclusion that I just can't accept as being true. Tsunami Talisman and DST beat out EVERYTHING. Like everything since I first got the combination. I switched over the Ashtongue after finding the 3:2 SV spam macro in the hope to maximize dps, but the spreadsheet says TT will in the end grant me more.

Not to mention Neck of the Deep > The SSO neck, though I admit that thing is pretty good too. Have I really reached my cap on these three slots so long ago? I decided to take a look at it when I got passed up for madness last night and the numbers always end up favoring those trinkets. This is even as my HR changes.

I wonder if anyone has found a combination that cannot seem to be upgraded atleast as far as the spreadsheet is concerned? I ask because every maximized setup that I see uses Madness or BC or even Ashtongue.

Also, is there a way to link files in EJ or do I have to use a service a la SS to link my sheet?

Wunlastri's Spreadsheet Profile

Sparny; Well, we aren't exactly pre sunwell and I only turned back to SV recently. I wouldn't call it epeen, I wouldn't call them horrible. In that instance I had to basically prove the viability of SV to my guild so I got the 'magical' group makeup and consumables. But hey, your joke totally slayed the thread. Can't you tell?

I should have stated it a bit more clearly - I really want to push the high (15/1600+) DPS on Brutallus - raid buffed/drums/etc. I was averaging 1100 without Arcane/Multi in the rotation on Boom <---Am I missing something obvious?

I did get a chance to use the macro in ZA on a bear mount run last night. Essentially self buffed with major agi pot/warp meat and no drums I was around 1200 (assuming I could maintain constant damage output without moving to much).

The macro actually ran pretty smooth over the G15 (thanks for the guide) so that's great.

I suppose the real test will be the weekend SP attempts.

Based on my lower hit count - how would I speculate the amount of DPS I'm actually losing? Guildies are suggesting its fairly nominal and that as long as the EW proc is up they are happy. Personally, I would like to stay competitive in the DPS realm.

For Brutallis specifically hunters need to be in the 2k + ballpark. This is mainly to carry the other raid members that have difficulty getting to 1700dps (ret pallies, feral druids, shadow priests). At 1500dps a hunter is just a liability.

Now to get 2000+ dps a few things have to be true. You need 4 piece T6. You also need a well constructed "hunter group". The ideal group would be SV hunter, 2xBM hunter, feral druid and a shammy with a ret pally keeping up JoW. Thats not required but its ideal. Minimally you want three hunters in a group together with a shammy dropping GoA and popping Bloodlust and some sort of raid mana regen either from a shadow priest or JoW. you also want 3-4 leatherworkers in the group banging drums one after the other. Finally since you dont have mana issues you want haste pots.

I suppose a raid can be successful with only bringing a SV hunter and jamming them in a crappy group but you will only pull off 1500 or so dps and its really not worth bringing in other hunters in that situation.

This post brings up an excellent point. Is there ever going to be a true mail-head or mail-chest upgrade for hunters in 2.4+? Even though we haven't seen Kil'jaeden's lewts *officially* yet, it looks pretty grim.

So you are suggesting that unless I am kicking out a minimum of 1500 DPS then I should warm the bench? I have a hard time agreeing with that comment. If I can maintain 1300-1500 DPS then I'm still adding a huge raid benefit.

Please clarify.

Thanks for all the comments back. I went with elk bars, it works great. I setup a new buff bar expanding up that is red with only haste related buffs in it just above my cast bar, works great for switching macros. Last night our first council, I had no party support other than a shadow priest. With a 7/20/33, my own drums, haste pots, and my pet by my side not attacking so it wouldn't die in aoe, I hit 1300 dps also with only 3 piece gronn switching between a 1.5 and /cast /cast with haste. I don't have anything to compare it to but seems like pretty decent dps.

Here's the $64,000 question, we had 2 tokens drop an OT took one and i ended up with the other one with an unlucky roll. The pants are so inferior to Bow-stitched it's sad, I lose 25agi on one piece of gear, I think it is worth it for the interim 10% bonus to steady. It's tough to model the various haste states during a fight but according to Cheeky's on a straight 1:1 it comes out with higher dps. So anyone have a good idea if I am right in thinking 4piece > bowstiched? I am planning on getting the chest but may have to wait now that I picked up this pos.

At 1300 dps you are 400dps under the 1700 you need to break even. It might be worth bringing you for the extra 300 raid dps they would net. However if you are that low a few things are wrong. You can personally beat 1300 dps with your gear in a shitty group. Im almost certain you are in a terrible group if you are pulling numbers that low on that content which means its probably not worth your raids time to bring other hunters along on that fight. Brutallus requires a high degree of group synergy.


What trinket do you normally wear on raids in place of the pvp one? If its not a trinket with +hit on it then you are saccing too many personal stats for a slightly improved EW proc. Add in 2 x +10hit gems and eat some hit food to get hit back where it needs to be. You might also consider just going with [Halberd of Desolation] until you get a second piece of haste gear like the ZA cloak. I dont think the single piece is doing anything special for you dps wise. Two pieces starts to show a decent benefit as has been posted previously.

Funny - I just had this exact same conversation with one of our officers not more then 15 minutes ago.

It's really going to be dependent on your loot/dkp system. For me having already purchased the Bow-stitched means that the token legs will be nearly free (maybe 5-10 dkp) which in the interim is totally worth it to bump up the 4 pc bonus.

Even if I take them - I will hopefully have another shot at the BP in the next 4-5 weeks so I'm not overly concerned; at this point I am willing to sacrifice a little to test the respec/rotation/dps increases suggested on this post.

It really boils down to how long you may have to wait for another shot at the BP, and if the set bonus outweighs the potential waiting period.

Good luck~

I am assuming a minimum of 1300-1400 DPS - I won't have an actual WWS available until Monday morning, it's a rough estimate at best assuming I am doing 1100 on Dr. Boom unbuffed.


As far as trinkets go I use the Bloodlust and Ashtounge in PvE. And yes I completely agree my Hit is way to low - getting a halbred drop has been a thorn in my side for longer then I care to admit. I can drop some agi and bump my hit with
Garona's ring (Kara) and the S3 PvP help to get closer in towards cap. I really don;t want to re-gem to much as the server gem vendor is close - as is my shot at the four piece.

I've also saved a large amount of badges so maybe I can up that hit with some of the badge gear.

Any suggestion how much more haste I want to push without overdoing it?

Thanks again for the input and suggestions.

I was just looking at the Gauntlets of Sniping badge gear. I can use two hit gems and drop the PvP gloves for 39 hit - that will level me out perfectly. I was using them when I still had barrage in my weave - which I am not using now

Thanks for the advice - the outside perspective helps me hash it out.

My guild has had a rather strong distaste for hunters for a long time, (most of them have been raiding since MC days) and as a result only brings me to fights since im survival. Throwing me in the tank grp with a resto sham and feral tank on brut actually does fairly well for me since I get both goa and lotp even if i don't get lust and we don't use GOA i'm still able to throw up 1800 dps. So saying a survival hunter without a bm grp can't do anymore than 1500 dps is really setting the bar low, and I'm sure there are many SV hunters out there that get the same or less than me and are putting up better numbers. Gotta be willing to use those consumables though, major agi, major mageblood, superior mana oil, grilled mudfish, scroll of agility 5, dark runes, haste potion, fel mana potion, and drums of battle are all cons I use every fight on Brut, Fel Myst, and Twins and most of our good attempts on Muru. You just gotta be willing to farm the stuff you need to help yourself sustain mana/stats in a grp where you're largely on your own.

Make sure you update your rotation when you switch weapons, I doubt the WSR is an upgrade over Sunfury, which is how I read that.

*edit* For me, the Sunfury is a 61dps upgrade over the WSR running a 1:1.5 arcane only rotation with Improved Arcane 5/5.

*edit 2* was working my way through the thread, and hadn't seen that this had already been answered.

I do about 1750dps in a crap group. The guy whose posts I was commenting on is missing several key pieces of gear, hence the 1500 guestimation.

Aern, if you're getting GoA and LotP then you're getting a lot of help already.

On my guild's first few tries on Brutallus I was in the tank group like yourself... problem was we were't using shaman in tank group and both tanks were prot warriors.
[EDIT]Quiggy can speak for himself! Apologies if I put any words in your mouth.
In the "perfect hunter group" (SV, BM, BM, Sham, Feral), the biggest buffs in there are GoA & Feral (Heroism & drum rotations too ofc), not 2x +3% (which are still very nice). A Surv Hunter with NONE of these buffs will do well to beat 1600dps (even if there's an SPriest and/or Ret Pala)

Working with my own gear, LotP & GoA are worth around 70dps each to me. Each FI is worth about 45dps to me.

While you might not be getting the perfect group, you're still getting most of the best buffs available to hunters from grouping.

I've not yet had the oppurtunity on Brutallus since acquiring 4pc t6.
My best pre-4pc (actually using 2pc at the time and 2pc t5!) was ~1450 dps including 1 burn. Wasn't a kill though, was some of our very early learning on him. This was in a group with no synergy at all.

Good day to you all.

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I just wanted to say and ask a few things. Thanks very much for all the information that continues to flow in this thread, it really is great to see soo many people dedicated to the class and the various play-styles that there are.

My second statement is asking for a tad bit of help. My DPS is lacking alot and i was wondering if someone could take a look at my profile and offer any small amount of contribution. I've linked the Armory and WWS of the last few fights.

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

WWS
Wow Web Stats

I manualy do my shot rotation exg. Auto-Arcane-Steady-Auto-steady- repeat.
Ps. I know i don't have a scope on the bow as i just made the 450 to get one.

Thanks again for any feed back.