Grynn, looking at your level of gear I'm not really surprised they're leading you by that much. There are things you can do to improve your dps, but BM hunters are realistically always going to have a solid lead on you (200dps isn't unreasonable) if they know what they're doing, and your gear is not the best you can achieve at your current level of raiding. You just have to do your best to maximize what you can and remember that your expose weakness is contributing a considerable amount. As your gear improves it'll scale much better.
Some things I noticed from the WWS
- Do you run with a mageblood elixir? I didn't see it but that'd help your mana
- Looks like you're using standard mana potions instead of fel mana pots- the extra mana from fel mana pots would also help you out plus you can use them earlier in a fight (they are pricy tho so it depends how critical your dps is on the fight)
- I wouldn't bother with volley- it's a terrible aoe. If you really want to help aoe, stick an explosive trap on the murlocs. Channeling volley means you're not doing other damage attacks which would probably contribute far more
- I don't see you using multishot at all. If you're not using an IAS spec and your mana situation isn't extremely bad, you should be able to do more damage by using multishot when it's up in your rotation the same you would use arcane shot. On Tidewalker it should be safe to use (at least once the murlocs are picked up by the tank)
It sounds like you've been to my site so hopefully you've already perused the gear guide and are working on improving your gear, but one key I'd highly recommend is to work on getting yourself an S3 helm- even if you hate arenas it's an easy gear gain that will last you a long time for minimal time investment. Also you should be using the crit/AP leg patch over the stam/agil one, a crit scope on your gun, 24 AP on your bracers (I'm assuming you just didn't have time to enchant them yet) and definitely work on getting the badge gloves. Good luck on your rep climb to exalted with Aldor, that's another good source of additional dps. You're a little below the hit cap too but not enough to be overly worried about.
Id agree for the love of god don't ever take off that dst. I probably won't take mine off even when I get my blackened sliver. If you have mana problems, try using fel mana pots every 2 min and farming some demonic runes or buying dark runes to give yourself some more mana. I know without JoW keeping your mana up can be tough, but you really gotta use all the mana cons available.
Out of curiosity, what's considered 'okay' DPS for survival if your progressing through BT/Hyjal?
I'm still in T5 level gear mostly, with only Bow-Stitched Leggings from T6 content at the moment, and I'm doing 1000-1300 and often top 5 damage on most bosses in MH/BT. I play on a lousy comp with 5 fps mostly and seldom have optimal group set-up so theres definately room for improvement. Looking at our other (BM) Hunters I would say that this is OK damage/dps. No doubt others here can do way better, but dps in the 1000-1500 range could be considered OK for a guild in progress I think.
I don't see many people posting at this gear level, so hopefully this is helpful to others as well. I'm in T4/Badge/BoE loot, with only the Arcanite Pistol/Legionkiller from beyond that, so this should be pretty comparable to where you're at. At any rate, some WWS of recent raids: 3 Bosses in Hyjal Azgalor,Naj,Supremus,Mag
I'm in that same 1000-1300 range, have similar latency issues (300ish), use a 1:1 when hasted, 1:1.5 when not, and don't normally get any good group buffs (only FI in these parses I think). I'd definitely say this is "OK".
Whytefist, your pre-T6 content discussion got me to thinking about something. As a BM Hunter, I have always known that my best trinket options were (in as best an order as I think):
What I'm wondering now, as I progress back into Survival and from what I've read here, is what is the best trinket combo when you're in full T6 (granting the 4 piece bonus)? I think that we can all agree that the concept of using the Hourglass of the Unraveler and Tsunami Talisman is pretty much behind us with the only exception being that you're having ungodly issues with drops. For me, due to poor drops, my current DKP status, and a great many people in front of me wanting it as well, I'm a long time away from the Madness (we still haven't had on drop in 4 months of Council on farm).
So this got me to thinking. Let's assume that your options are the DST plus either the Ashtongue trinket or the Berserker's Call. Which offers the most DPS boost over time? I don't have the math in front of me for uptime calculations so I'm kind of half assing this. What this question really boils down to, in my mind, is this: Considering both trinkets over a 120s time period using a 2:1 rotation (we'll leave out the DPS calculations entirely),
- is the Zerker's Call better as you're applying 90 AP to 66 Steady Shots and 450 AP to 13 Steady Shots
or
- is the Ashtongue better as you're more apt to have the 275 AP bonus up more often during the time period in question
If I could figure out what the internal cool down on the Ashtongue Talisman is, that would go a long way to answering this question. But I'm curious about what the outcome would show.
That's what I thought. The guild that I'm in now is fully clearing BT and Hyjal in about 2-3 days, with the rest of the week working on Brutallus and/or Kalecgos if people decide to be dumb.
MY question now becomes, on fights like Teron, where my DPS becomes upwards of 1500, are they expecting too much of me by saying I need more DPS?
Also, I'm currently using this rotation, Steady > Arcane > Auto > Steady > Auto > Steady > Multi > Auto
This is manual shooting. I find that there is little to no clipping with this rotation, but it seems as though that isn't enough. I feel I could do more DPS with the gear that I have.
Any suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.
If I could figure out what the internal cool down on the Ashtongue Talisman is, that would go a long way to answering this question. But I'm curious about what the outcome would show.
Pretty sure it's just a straight 15% chance to proc off of a steady shot with no internal cooldown.
The beauty of Survival is that as long as you get Expose Weakness and the Usual 20 points into marksmanship, you can do whatever you want.
The general Consensus though is that either 7/20/34, or 5/20/37 are the best specs for personal dps for survival while keeping your raid buffage up.
But again, it's really up to you. The difference in DPS from the different Survival Specs is really only a matter of a fair few DPS.
As for Macros, it's a lot harder to make a macro for SV and MM because of the weapon speed of most endgame bows, and the weaving of arcane shot or multi shot within the time between your steady shot finishing, and your autoshot firing without clipping.
1. I know it was discussed earlier in the thread, but I have a bow related question. Recently my guild has been farming the world bosses for money purposes and the barrel-blade longrifle dropped. I picked it up as an option to have, but I am wondering should I switch over to it or should I stick with the Vengeful Bow that I currently use. I know that a 3.0 speed is preferred for the 1:1.5 rotation that I use, but the possible 36 agility bonus is tempting. Has anyone else encountered this same problem or can you offer some advice?
2. For a guild being fairly new to t6 content (3/5 MH and 3/9 BT) I was curious to see what kind of dps numbers I should be seeing. Currently I can push 1200-1300 on a good night, but most often I sit around 1100. Are these good numbers for my gear or am I doing something wrong. I can post a WWS if needed, but the current ones are out of date.
Thanks for the input. This will certainly help, which is one of the reasons I /salute you all. I went and grabbed my S3 helm, and yesterday during TK, [Star-Strider Boots] dropped for me :P. I started getting used to weaving in Multi-shot during the raid, and for some reason I had it in my head that it wasn't the thing to do alongside of weaving in arcane shot.
Whytefist, your pre-T6 content discussion got me to thinking about something. As a BM Hunter, I have always known that my best trinket options were (in as best an order as I think):
What I'm wondering now, as I progress back into Survival and from what I've read here, is what is the best trinket combo when you're in full T6 (granting the 4 piece bonus)? I think that we can all agree that the concept of using the Hourglass of the Unraveler and Tsunami Talisman is pretty much behind us with the only exception being that you're having ungodly issues with drops. For me, due to poor drops, my current DKP status, and a great many people in front of me wanting it as well, I'm a long time away from the Madness (we still haven't had on drop in 4 months of Council on farm).
So this got me to thinking. Let's assume that your options are the DST plus either the Ashtongue trinket or the Berserker's Call. Which offers the most DPS boost over time? I don't have the math in front of me for uptime calculations so I'm kind of half assing this. What this question really boils down to, in my mind, is this: Considering both trinkets over a 120s time period using a 2:1 rotation (we'll leave out the DPS calculations entirely),
- is the Zerker's Call better as you're applying 90 AP to 66 Steady Shots and 450 AP to 13 Steady Shots
or
- is the Ashtongue better as you're more apt to have the 275 AP bonus up more often during the time period in question
If I could figure out what the internal cool down on the Ashtongue Talisman is, that would go a long way to answering this question. But I'm curious about what the outcome would show.
I do not know about others, but I am definitely unlucky with trinket drops.
For DST, I only saw it drop twice while playing my main depite killing Gruul upteen times. Plus, one of the other hunter that won it is our pally tank now and the rogue that won it is playing only part time currently. To add salt to the wounds, I have seen it drop 3 times on alt runs. I have been back to running Gruul on my main when we do it on off days, but no luck.
Took me about 16 times running BM after already being exalted with KoT before getting the hourglass. And I do not know how many mech runs I did before getting the abacus to drop.
Despite it being a 10-man raid and doing ZA religously for a while, I saw Berserker's Call drop 4 times before I won it.
We just tried council for the first time last night, so hopefully I will see madness drop soon; however, both our rogues have so much more DKP than me, so it will probably be a while.
Never won the Tsunami desipite the numerous times I have killed Leo including alt runs when I have switched to my hunter just for that fight.
Thus, I am thankful that I could purchase bloodlust with badges and the ashtongue trinket with rep. I will keep trying for the DST when I can.
Anyway, that's why I did my analysis with the trinkets I did since those are the best options I had.
I do plan to do a similar T6 4 set analysis sometime soon so that I am ready to go when I finally get the 4 pieces. However, that is still going to be a while since I just got my second piece this week on our first Mother kill (only took us about 2 hours to learn her tankfully and 2 protectors dropped). When I do it, I will consider doing the analysis with some additional trinkets I do not have so that it will benefit more hunters.
That's what I thought. The guild that I'm in now is fully clearing BT and Hyjal in about 2-3 days, with the rest of the week working on Brutallus and/or Kalecgos if people decide to be dumb.
MY question now becomes, on fights like Teron, where my DPS becomes upwards of 1500, are they expecting too much of me by saying I need more DPS?
Also, I'm currently using this rotation, Steady > Arcane > Auto > Steady > Auto > Steady > Multi > Auto
This is manual shooting. I find that there is little to no clipping with this rotation, but it seems as though that isn't enough. I feel I could do more DPS with the gear that I have.
Any suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.
I do not know whether you just missed a few shots when listing your rotation or whether that is actually what you are doing. If it is what you are actually doing, then you are definitely clipping shots. You need to have at least 2 auto-steadies between specials. Hence, your rotation should end Multi > Auto > Steady > Auto for 10 shots total.
If you have the T6 4-set bonus, then you should be able to produce much greater than 1500 DPS. If you do not have the T6 4-set bonus, then I think 1500 DPS is pretty good. The best I have had is around 1746, but that is biased a little by the fact that I was ghosted at about 14%. If I wouldn't have been ghosted, it would have been a little lower since I had just finished using up the last of my haste effects that I would have had for the fight. I have been typically between 1300-1600 DPS (with wearing one T6) depending on how well I use my haste effects and how much pushback I get during steady casts from Incinerates or constructs in the raid.
We just tried council for the first time last night, so hopefully I will see madness drop soon; however, both our rogues have so much more DKP than me, so it will probably be a while.
Your rogues really should be using DST + Shard if they can. According to the gear spreadsheet, the Warp Spring Coil and the exalted BT trinket are also both better for rogues than Madness. I was just checking this yesterday when evaluating some gear changes on my own rogue. So if they are planning to outbid you for Madness either they aren't working off the spreadsheet or their luck with trinkets is even worse than yours, as they really shouldn't have any problem at least getting a shard + exalted trinket. I'd be more concerned about your DPS warrior and if your rogues still want the trinket, maybe you can convince them to do more research
* All kind of pets will have their own talent tree. A tanking talent tree, a DPS talent tree, and an utility talent tree. Each kind of pet family will have its own talent tree and its own unique ability.
[/b] * The shot clipping will be removed from Steady Shot, you'll be able to use it without "interrupting" your autoshot. Hunters will be able to just smash their button.[/b]
* There are going to be new pets in WotLK.
* The skill points for each pets are being changed to the new "Pet talents" and will disappear.
MONSTER NEWS! (please forgive the caps, this is the biggest change to hunters, probably ever).
I guess this is our time to say our big thanks to those awesome hunters who did everything but hack Blizz servers to make hunters competitive, to those of you who put in the hours and made Dr. Boom into a goblinoid pincushion. To those who discovered, adapted, refined and perfected the 2:1/3:2/1:1, we salute you.
I guess this will make us a bit OP to begin with (when they realise what a can of worms this will unleash) unless they've got something else in store (for us or every other class).
The pet talent trees looks exciting too, a whole new way to theorycraft.
And so it is, the end of an era!
I suppose for a hunter who has gone through long nights of shooting at Dr. Boom this change is kind of disappointing as Blizzard will nerf our pve damage now. When all hunters can access the full dps potential developers realise that hunters are rather ridiculous in pve.
i was hoping to get some insight with my current gear and rotation. Im using a 3:2 rotation and a hawk build as survival. I just got the Bristleblitz Striker from Arch, I had been using the badge xbow prior. I do have a bit of passive haste but only 63. It seems with the arch bow, when my Imp Hawk procs I lose dps. i got from a 2.5 speed to about a 2.2 speed, and the steadies seem to destroy my autos when that occurs. Would I be best to spec out of imp hawk? Or do i need a bit more haste? Bit less haste?
Edit: I guess what im looking for is if I have the right gear/spec to run the 2:1 rotation with the arch bow?
My armory:The World of Warcraft Armory, buying angelista's revenge later today
I've recently swapped to survival and have noticed an abnormal drop in dps from beastmastery(~500), this was using my old beastmastery macro which i've discarded. i was referred to this macro set and was told to use arcane whenever it was up along with these macros and have not tested this in BT yet.
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Lightning Breath
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/click [target=pettarget,exists] MultiBarBottomLeftButton12
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
My DPS was only 744 a few night ago but my pet windserpent was not in use for most of the night which i plan to rectify. I was curious what i need to do to get my DPS up to where it should be as i seem to have some trouble finding quality posts for survival. I'd appreciate all tips and links to informative websites ( i currently use TKAsomething, and coldfront, i rarely come here but plan to change that). My guild's progression is 5/5, 7/9, 0/6.
I have a Xbow of relentless strikes and an assasians alchemist stone in the bank and a valestalker girdle.
This thread is 94 pages long. The reason why it is so long, is because people didn't read it when it was only 20 pages, so new people keep asking the same questions again. I understand the need for specific questions, but when you're asking "how do I do more dps", that's not something we can magically fix.
My very quick tips:
-- You dont have 4pc t6 + ~80 passive haste, so I dont recommend you use that macro for two reasons: a) lesser dps than 1:1.5 even when it works well, and b) chances are it's not working well and you're chaining steady shots and few autoshots are getting through. A (well performed) 1.1:5 manual rotation will yield much higher dps. 1:1.5 = steady multi auto steady auto steady arcane auto steady auto. For this rotation I recommend the 0/20/41 spec, or similar. The 7/20/34 spec is mainly used for the /cast/cast macro that you listed, along with 4pc t6, a lot of passive haste, and preferably a DST.
-- Using Cheekys Spreadsheet is an easy way to compare gear. Make sure you use it properly and check all the right settings and raid buffs/debuffs. It will show both personal dps and the raid AP gain from EW. There are a few EW -> raid dps formulas lying around in this thread which you can use to determine which items to wear.
This thread is 94 pages long. The reason why it is so long, is because people didn't read it when it was only 20 pages, so new people keep asking the same questions again. I understand the need for specific questions, but when you're asking "how do I do more dps", that's not something we can magically fix.
Some of the information is still questionable ... personally I tried to find some clear info regarding the value of +haste in relation to other stats, and this is still an open question for me. Trying to hit that ~80 passive haste has certainly affected my agi, crit, hit and it is very hard to evaluate to which point it is actually worth sacrificing other stats for that certain amount of haste, when you can't benefit the ideal gear drops.
When you can perform a smooth 2:1 rotation that becomes a 3:2 with DST or IAOTH procs, and a 1:1 when both proc, you have enough haste. I believe there is a table in this thread that examines the haste needed to match each of those effects. It's hard to compare it to the real world, latency, etc, so it's really open to personal testing in a raid environment.
More and more people recommend to have ~80 Haste if the Hunter is skilled 7/20/33. Reason being is to get under 2.50 Speed.
I got both Vanirs weapons, ergo 44. With the [Hard Khorium Band] (28) it would be 72 Haste. 72 Haste results in 2.49. Enough, right?
More and more people recommend to have ~80 Haste if the Hunter is skilled 7/20/33. Reason being is to get under 2.50 Speed.
I got both Vanirs weapons, ergo 44. With the [Hard Khorium Band] (28) it would be 72 Haste. 72 Haste results in 2.49. Enough, right?
The point of the haste is to get your speed down to an optimal 3:2 range. I'm not sure about DST procs, but you need a ~2.3 speed before IAotH to get down to 2.0, a good speed for 3:2. The 80 haste is recommended because 80 + 80 from a drum rotation will get you into a good 3:2 from either DST or IAotH procs, and a solid 1:1 when both proc. I don't think it has anything to do with being under 2.5.
There's a secondary aspect of the static haste rating, in that it allows you to perform a 2:1 rotation with the macro when not under the effect of AotH or drums. Without the static haste, in these circumstances, you will just chain steadies (as I am painfully aware, since ZA refuses to drop anything of use to me).
My question [and I searched but didn't see anything] to those present is - for those raiding Survival, do you find taking Readiness to be worth the loss of the 5 points in MT?
Our normal survival Hunter recently left for personal IRL issues - I'm stepping in to take over the Survival mantle, but like everyone else, I loathe MT and it's sort of lackluster use, but I know that readiness has been damned handy at various points *cough* Anetheron *cough* where multiple MDs are needed quickly - at the same time, we generally are running with 2-3 Hunters so the situations where a readiness may be needed are few and far between.
I personally prefer the stronger personal DPS build, especially with Brutallus coming up on our radar soon. But just wanted to know if any of you felt even fretting over readiness really mattered >.>
06/25/08, 10:17 PM
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