Well I recently turned survival and the only bosses I've gotten to test on so far was Illidari Council and the first 50% of Illidan, so I can't determine much since those fights involve quite a bit of movement. I'm not sure if I'm maximizing my DPS to it's fullest though.
I have 122 passive haste, which takes me down to 2.42, however I've yet to get a DST. I've looked around and have heard different opinions on what talent build to use and which rotation to shoot for.
First spec/rotation(what people suggest): Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
- Use 1:1.5 then switch to 3:2 once AoTH procs or during heroism.
- Other rotation suggestion I heard with this build would be just going 3:2 period.
I just went survival tonight. It's a trial basis, so my gems are still in the BM range. We're currently working on the Illidari Council.
I'm sure this has been asked. What is the SV preferred shot rotation? I pretty much copied Whitefyst's spec. Could someone post the steady shot macro for said preferred rotation?
I've been BM for a pretty long time, but losing my 2pc T5 bonus, I think it's time for a change. So do all the rogues, feral druid, ret pally, warriors, and other hunters in my guild lol. Any advice would be great.
I usually raid with the Bloodlust Brooch and Ashtongue Talisman. Trust me, I know the AToS is the suck, but I could NEVER get a TT to drop for me, and haven't had a shot at a MotB yet. I work with the tools I've been given, heh. And, as I said, I'll re-gem properly after I try this out for a few days to see if it goes well.
I'm curious to know, has anyone tried comparing Bristleblitz to the Illidan bow by any chance on Brutallus?
The reason is; we are dropping MH soon and I am wondering whether the illidan bow is just as viable for the 2K dps required. 15 Archi kills and still no Bristleblitz....
On another note - I have recently gathered a 4 set T6 bonus and I have found that although +80 passive haste is recommended for a decent Heavy Steady rotation with a 3.0 second bow, it does seem to work fine with less.
Using only the Badge Chest (for example) to give only +25 haste (2.57 Drawspeed) works a pretty nice 2:1 (using Manito's macro). Useful until you get the Felspine, Cloak of Fiends etc.
I tried the shortcut of using the Badge Bow with 0 haste to get under the 2.5 sec drawspeed. It defies logic but it does consistently less DPS than the Serpent Spine bow and 25 haste - using Manito's again.
I heard somewhere that Steady Shot gives more DPS with slower bows - is this correct? If it is that might explain the difference.
I usually raid with the Bloodlust Brooch and Ashtongue Talisman. Trust me, I know the AToS is the suck, but I could NEVER get a TT to drop for me, and haven't had a shot at a MotB yet. I work with the tools I've been given, heh. And, as I said, I'll re-gem properly after I try this out for a few days to see if it goes well.
I'd rather wear the hourglass over that ashtongue talisman. Try plugging that into cheeky's sheet: brooch & hourglass. Without the haste, that should be a significant upgrade over the ashtongue talisman.
I do Cobra Reflexes, Avoidance, Lightning Breath and max ranks of Fire and Shadow resists. The rest of the points get spent in Stamina.
So basically we only need Fire and Shadow resist in sunwell right? BTW we are only in Brutallus in sunwell so maybe ill spec my pet upto the 3rd boss of sunwell and for all the bosses in BT. In this regard, would Fire + Shadow still be the only resist needed for my pet?
I'd rather wear the hourglass over that ashtongue talisman. Try plugging that into cheeky's sheet: brooch & hourglass. Without the haste, that should be a significant upgrade over the ashtongue talisman.
Not entirely sure about that, the Ashtongue provides a passive 150 ap as it doesn't have a hidden cooldown if i recall like the Hourglass, unless of course you need the crit which is pretty decent.
I am torn on this subject as still haven't got a TT or MoTB to drop either for!
I tried the shortcut of using the Badge Bow with 0 haste to get under the 2.5 sec drawspeed. It defies logic but it does consistently less DPS than the Serpent Spine bow and 25 haste - using Manito's again.
I heard somewhere that Steady Shot gives more DPS with slower bows - is this correct? If it is that might explain the difference.
The reason is probably that your macro is not working without haste, and you're constantly chaining steady shots. Auto shot won't correctly fire after a steady when you're spamming a macro unless you have enough haste to make Steady shot finish before the GCD is up. Even a little haste is enough to do this (like the 25 from the chest), which is why it works for you when you use that setup.
So, the best SV shot rotation for a 3.0 weapon is...?
1:1.5 or 1:1.4 depending on haste, switching down to a 1:1.3 or 3:2 on a IAotH or DST proc and a 1:1 on RF, Heroism/Bloodlust, or IAotH+DST proc.
I'm convinced that 2:1 is not a good rotation through testing of my own (in terms of damage, but not mana efficiency), but I'm still undecided about 1:1.3 vs 3:2.
Now to my question, what to upgrade next from badges, Bloodlust Brooch or Belt of the Silent Path? Or maybe something other?
I also got Bindings of Lightning Reflexes from MH trash last time, are they good for me at this point? When do haste really give a boost? (Even that i don't have chance to get HoD atm)
My dps seems to vary quite much, when we killed Winterchill last time i got around 1000 dps but then on Voidreaver i only hade around 860.
WWS reports: Wow Web Stats - VR Wow Web Stats - Winterchill
Can you see something i do diffrent? I try to stay to same Dps cycle all time.
Will i gain or loose dps if I respecc 0/20/41 ? I have done some math, i will have 2 more rapid fire in a 6-7 min fight. But will that + the extra crit give more then i get from IAoTH?
Concerning the Belt of the Silent Path, it is a nice DPS upgrade over your current belt. In addition, the +23 hit rating allows you to replace an inferior to hit item (like your boots) with a better DPS item. My only concern with the belt is that it is leather and that you are already wearing three leather pieces resulting in a very low mana pool. If you are currently having mana problems, I would not make this change until you can fix it or unless the to hit from the badge belt will allow you to replace a leather to hit item with a better mail DPS item.
The Bloodlust Brooch is a nice DPS upgrade relative to the Mark of Conquest; however, I hesitate once again to suggest making that change due to your mana situation and that you probably rely on the trinket for your mana. Thus, I prefer not to provide any suggestions without having a better feel for your particular mana situation. If you can make the changes and maintain your DPS uptime, then by all means make them.
Concerning the Bindings of Lightning Reflexes, they are about a 7 overall upgrade for me (+11 personal DPS and -4 raid DPS from EW) from your current wrists due to it helping me be able to perform a 1:1.4 unhasted max DPS rotation instead of the 1:1.5 with the badge crossbow. Suggest checking out the change yourself in Cheeky's.
In general haste provide a good boost when it allows you to either tighten up your rotation (without making it fully tight and wasting some of the haste) or allowing you to switch rotations for better DPS.
Assuming identical buffs and boss debuffs, your DPS will vary from boss to boss for various reasons, including:
1) The boss's armor and resistances/immunities. Rage only has 6200 armor while VR has 8800. Hence, your DPS will tend to be higher on Rage than VR.
2) The nature of the fight - do you have to move around a lot or experience interruptions? For the Rage fight, if I stand at max range sperad out from everyone else, I rarely have to move (if at all) to get out of death and decay allowing me to maintain my max DPS rotation through most or all of the fight. On the other hand, I know I will need to move and move frequently in the VR fight, resulting in a loss of DPS.
From the analyses I have previously done on my character, I have found the 0/20/41 spec to work the best for me, with the addition of the extra utility from readiness. I had a IAotH build at one time until I did the original analysis that prompted me to switch, and I have gotten the same result everytime I have reperformed the analysis (prior to T6 4-set bonus with 3.0 speed weapon). Suggest checking it out yourself in Cheeky's.
Originally Posted by Shikimaru
I have 122 passive haste, which takes me down to 2.42, however I've yet to get a DST. I've looked around and have heard different opinions on what talent build to use and which rotation to shoot for.
First spec/rotation(what people suggest): Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
- Use 1:1.5 then switch to 3:2 once AoTH procs or during heroism.
- Other rotation suggestion I heard with this build would be just going 3:2 period.
My suggestion is a 0/20/41 spec with Readiness. For anyone without the T6 4-set bonus, I have found that to be the most effective spec, especially for someone without DST. Results of my previous analyses are spread throughout time in this thread. Check it out yourself in Cheeky's though.
I also suggest never using a 2:1 or 3:2 rotation. As per my analysis a couple pages back, I suggest using the 1:1.5 rotation unhasted. Switch to the 1:1.4 under any haste effects less than 480 haste. Then use the 1:1 for haste greater than 480. The results of this will outperform either the 2:1 or 3:2 over all haste values. If you pick up about another 28 haste, then you can use the 1:1.4 unhasted as well for better DPS than the 1:1.5 and switch to the 1:1 at hastes above 450.
Originally Posted by Nakaya_kilrogg
What is the SV preferred shot rotation? I pretty much copied Whitefyst's spec. Could someone post the steady shot macro for said preferred rotation?
Using the Bristleblitz and have low haste.
I usually raid with the Bloodlust Brooch and Ashtongue Talisman. Trust me, I know the AToS is the suck, but I could NEVER get a TT to drop for me, and haven't had a shot at a MotB yet. I work with the tools I've been given, heh. And, as I said, I'll re-gem properly after I try this out for a few days to see if it goes well.
If you are using my spec with a 3.0 speed weapon at 2.61 speed, I suggest the following rotations:
- Between 0 and 150 haste: 1:1.5 (auto-steady-arcane-auto-steady-auto-steady-multishot-auto-steady (repeat))
- Between 150 and 600 haste: 1:1.4 (same as above but with another auto-steady before the multishot)
- Greater than 600 haste: 1:1 (old BM rotation)
As far as macros, you will have to look past in posts to get any since I would prefer not to repeat any, especially when I do not use any full rotation macros myself. I use the BM 1:1 macro with hand-weaving my arcane and multis.
Whether Hourglass or AToS is better depends on your average weapon speed, sepc, and rotation. With a 3.0 speed weapon with being hasted for only short periods of your DPS time and the 0/20/41 spec, I find the hourglass, if you have it, to be more beneficial as some of my previous analyis posted has discussed. That extra crit not only helps your DPS but also returns more mana from TotH, increases your EW uptime, and provides your pet with more focus. The AToS will outperform the hourglass under certain conditions (mainly when under higher average weapon speeds and doing more steady shots per second), even with your situation, but I believe from my analyses that the hourglass will perform better for you more often. Check it out yourself in Cheeky's though.
So basically we only need Fire and Shadow resist in sunwell right? BTW we are only in Brutallus in sunwell so maybe ill spec my pet upto the 3rd boss of sunwell and for all the bosses in BT. In this regard, would Fire + Shadow still be the only resist needed for my pet?
I'm not entirely familiar with the Sunwell encounters so I'm not sure about that. That was my guess, but glancing over wowwiki suggests that may be incorrect. I'd take a look at the damage in listings for your pet on a WWS parse of a Sunwell raid and train whatever the two most prevalent elemental damage sources seem to be. Fire/Shadow should be good for BT at least. You may need multiple pets, I use three for SSC, TK and BT/Hyjal. Re-training caps out at a few silver for pets as I recall so worst case you could re-spec it every time you change instances.
I was approached by my guild to go survival to boost raid dps and i was itching to go give survival a try for a while (BM cookie cutter spec atm).
armory: The World of Warcraft Armory
I assumed that it wouldn't be that hard, figured there will be a cookie cutter spec for Survival and a handy macro and off i go but i was wrong.
Build:
i was looking into 7/20/34 but i think i lack enough haste to make it work with my 3.0 weapon.
I figured 0/20/41 might be a better choice because haste procs might screw me over with a shot macro in the beginning. maybe iAotH spec in the future when i get a hang of it?
Shot rotation:
post 2460 mentions 1:1.5 shot rotation would be ideal with 3.0 weapon speed and little haste (without DST). my question is what is a decent 1:1.5 macro?
i found 2 but i am not sure if they are right?
/castsequence reset=10 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot(rank 6), !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
vs.
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=10 Multi-Shot, Arcane Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Gear:
what are the 2 better choices for survival trinket wise?
Madness and Berserk's Call or Madness and Tsunami?
Neckless of the Deep > Choker of endless nightmare? (missing in post 17)
Dory's Embrace > Cloak of Fiends? (also missing in post 17) just wondering since ignore armor would be more beneficial than haste?
sorry for this wall of text, looking forward to some help.
I've been 5/20/36 spec survival for quite some time but my guild has finally started to make some progression. We're 4/6 ssc 2/4 tk and have Rage down in MH. I usually put out 1100-1250dps depending on wether i get an enh shaman for GoA totem while using the Manito's macro from Bigredkitty. I just wondered if there is a more efficient spec, shot rotation, or gear choices that i should be using to maximize my dps as well as raid wide EW dps.
Spec-
I see you keep recommending 20/41 with MT/Readiness for better dps/EW uptime for most hunters not stacking piles of Haste. I've tried to read through all of your posts to get a clear explanation why but I haven't found it clearly explained. I've never tried a readiness spec and wondered what the difference in playstyle (timing trinkets/etc) would be.
Gear-
As I'm only in mid-t5 content and don't have access to any of the 3.0 bows should I stick with sunfury or get the badge bow and try to stack some haste? Should I ditch the t5 2pc bonus and requip my Pauldrons of Primal Fury and purchase the Badge gloves? And would it be beneficial to start stacking more personal AP/crit at this point since I am already to 900+ unbuffed agility or should I continue stacking Agility till my eyes bleed?
Rotation-
Depending on the answers to the questions above what rotation would most benefit me over using the Manito's macro i am currently using? I've never been fond of using multishot due to its high mana cost but if I am seriously gimping my dps without it where would it be best to put into my macro/rotation?
Thanks in advance and I realize I have alot of questions in here.
The reason is probably that your macro is not working without haste, and you're constantly chaining steady shots. Auto shot won't correctly fire after a steady when you're spamming a macro unless you have enough haste to make Steady shot finish before the GCD is up. Even a little haste is enough to do this (like the 25 from the chest), which is why it works for you when you use that setup.
I think you're right - I did notice chaining of the steady shots with 0 haste; i'll play around with that some more. Thanks.
I guess that shows that Manito's macro needs at least some haste gear to work properly. Just in case ppl need a link to it again:
I basically wondering what kind of dps I can be expected to put out as a survival hunter in BT.
We've cleared it three weeks now and I respecced SV just recently. I did slightly more than 1800 dps
on Teron Gorefiend, using a 2:1 rotation (1:1.5 and variations doesnt seemt o put out more dps for me).
Gear was at the time pretty much what I have now except I had the badge chest instead of the t6 one.
Our raid setup might look a bit odd but that because we're more of a raiding group than an actual guild
and we simply bring along what we have and work with that.
So, if I can put out around 1800 dps on pure nuke fights am I doing what I should or do I fail somehow?
Also, I was sort of wondering which gear pieces I can look at getting, including leather, to improve my gear.
Disregard the gemming, I'm not sure if I'm going to stay SV so I'm not yet willing to replace my epic chest
gems for instance. (SWP drops and craftables are out of reach) I'm aware of Bow-stitched and archi/illi bow
they simply have not dropped yet.
I basically wondering what kind of dps I can be expected to put out as a survival hunter in BT.
We've cleared it three weeks now and I respecced SV just recently. I did slightly more than 1800 dps
on Teron Gorefiend, using a 2:1 rotation (1:1.5 and variations doesnt seemt o put out more dps for me).
Gear was at the time pretty much what I have now except I had the badge chest instead of the t6 one.
Our raid setup might look a bit odd but that because we're more of a raiding group than an actual guild
and we simply bring along what we have and work with that.
So, if I can put out around 1800 dps on pure nuke fights am I doing what I should or do I fail somehow?
Also, I was sort of wondering which gear pieces I can look at getting, including leather, to improve my gear.
Disregard the gemming, I'm not sure if I'm going to stay SV so I'm not yet willing to replace my epic chest
gems for instance. (SWP drops and craftables are out of reach) I'm aware of Bow-stitched and archi/illi bow
they simply have not dropped yet.
I almost have the same gear as you except that I use the BBS bow while you use the sunfury. I have never gotten past 1600 dps while using 1:1.5 and from my readings here, 1:1.5 > 2:1, yet you get 1800 DPS. Can you post your macro, your shot rotation from the beginning, as well as your latency sir. There must be something wrong i'm doing.
I also start of by using MD then shoot the boss with Arcane/Multi/Distracting shot then i click my Drums of Battle then hit a macro that activates Blood Fury / Rapid Fire / Berserker's Call. When Rapid fire ends, I hit Feign Death then click Readiness, then i hit Rapid Fire again. During the time Rapid fire is up, I just spam the Macro I posted above and when it ends, I go back to the macro plus manually shooting multi/arcane shot. I then rinse and repeat.
Yet I only get 1200-1600 DPS.(I often get only 1300dps)
I am not sure if this applies to Surv hunters or not since they mostly use cast sequence macros BUT when i was BM it is better to not pop your cooldowns unless the hunters mark has full strength. There is a huntermark counter on these forums somewhere but again i am not sure if this would boost a surv hunter.
I am not sure if this applies to Surv hunters or not since they mostly use cast sequence macros BUT when i was BM it is better to not pop your cooldowns unless the hunters mark has full strength. There is a huntermark counter on these forums somewhere but again i am not sure if this would boost a surv hunter.
RBM has a Hunter's Mark Plugin that will track the strength of your Hunter's Mark via a bar or a warning on your screen.
Just drop the arcane. I'm running 7/20/34 without any haste (jep, I'm gimping myself, i know) at 30-50 fps and 140ms latecy max. I go with manitos 3:2 macro and swap 1 steady every 10 secs with a multi (mostly auto-steady-multi cause auto-multi-steady will clip the next auto).
With just steady-spam i got to 198X dps without haste-potions (21XX with) at brutallus (feral+shaman - tank grp). After "weaving" the multi into (it still does more dmg than steady, even with 4/8 T6 and without barage) i'm at 20XX dps without and around 2250 with haste pots.
I spam the macro by hand if that helps :<
1:1.5 at 0/2x/3x will bring higher results at 0 haste, though.
Lohegrin and jomzjomz, those macros you posted look to be 2:1 style macros not for 1:1.5. Am I misreading your posts? Typically with 1:1.5 you use a castsequence style macro.
Hello all, Serf here. Was wondering what I could do to increase my DPS. here's my Armory... My Armory
And right now I'm stuck at doing only SSC (early SSC, aka hydross, Lurker, Leo and last week was our first down of Morogrim) and sometimes TK (A'lar/Loot Reaver). Can't get a Hyjal or BT to save my life (or get new lewts) and our ZA run just cannot down Jan'alai for some reason, so at best we can assume three chests, but no Hex Lord or Zul'Jin gear. Be.imba.hu rates my gear ratio as being well in excess of being BT/Hyjal worthy. Within those parameters, what can I do better? I average 800-900 DPS usually, using this macro;
and manually weaving in arcanes and multis when I need to due to moving about or needing to not use multi-targetting attacks to not break CC.
I've been looking to pick up the Ranger-General's Chestguard off Hydross, once it drops again and the shaman doesn't get it (-.-) as well as Trollbane, once it finally appears in the chest instead of that stupid Staff of Dark Mending. Any help would be nice.
Oh, i also use Major Agi pots and agi food, of course. With Mark of the Wild, Kings, and both food and elixir, I easily pass 1K agi, if anyone wonders, somewhere in the range of 1030 or so.
Last edited by Serf : 07/23/08 at 5:47 PM.
Reason: Edited for clarification
07/22/08, 2:32 AM
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