Based on the mini-patch today, the only changes are related to focus fire/frenzy, so I didn't do a full review of the other abilities. I did test and verify that imp sting is still using the old formula so they haven't fixed that yet, but they've indicated they plan to.

The focus fire/frenzy change raises the simulated BM dps (in my T14H setup) from 103318.58 to 103983.99, which is a .6% increase.

According to this Beta Class Balance Analysis - Forums - World of Warcraft , orc racial changed from 5% pet damage to 2%. Zeherah, could you please update your racial dps table. Or at least when this change gets verified.

I'm going to hold off on updating my site until the patch goes out with this change, as there may be other tweaks as well that come with this one and I'd rather the site reflect the current state of beta. But I did check on my dev site (using the T14H setup), and BM sees a drop of about 1528.98 dps with that change for orcs. For SV the difference is 477.22 dps and for MM it's 476.86 dps. So that's still enough to keep orcs in the best or competitive with the best racialwise but now there won't be such a huge gap.

Based on the changes in the latest beta build (15983), here are the latest formulas (note that I only retested abilities I had reason to believe had changed so it's possible other numbers have been stealth changed).

Spec Comparison:

Here are the current simulated damage numbers from my beta site in roughly the same T14H setup that simc is using (and including whichever talent gave me the best numbers, which might not match simc), including the % damage drop from the previous patch mechanics. Note that I'm using an orc for these tests.

• BM- 107787.80 (4.1% buff), Talents: Fervor, lynx rush, glaive toss (this patch brought fervor back above dire beast again)
• MM- 94351.04 (3.15% buff - updated), Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss
• SV- 99627.55 (4.7% buff), Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss

Buff/Nerf Summary:

I did some raw calculations on a T14 heroic gear set. In this set I assumed 52k RAP and 15130.5 avg weapon dmg with a weapon speed of 3.0. With these stats here is a rough estimate of how much damage change there is to each modified ability:

• Arcane Shot: 36% buff
• Explosive Shot: 8.2% buff
• Kill Shot: 40% buff

Notes:

• Aspects have been moved from the old shared CD to the GCD
• Careful Aim now gives 75% crit bonus

Current Formulas:

Hunter:

• Aimed Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 2.8 + 19541 (suppresses autoshot)
• Arcane Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) + 2306
• Barrage: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 6.4 (total damage to the primary target over 16 ticks, suppresses autoshot)
• Black Arrow: RAP * 1.6 + 1990 (total damage, split over 10 ticks)
• Chimera Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 2.1 + 2617
• Cobra Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .7
• Explosive Shot: RAP * .288 + 348.5 (per tick, there are 3 ticks)
• Explosive Trap: RAP * .0546 + 246.767 (initial damage), RAP * .0546 + 32.4038 (per tick, there are 10 ticks) - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
• Glaive Toss: (RAP * .2 + 872) * 4 (to the primary target, 2 will hit)
• Improved Serpent Sting: (RAP * .097 + 2030.22) * 5 * .3 (probably bugged, it's using the old sting formula, does benefit from the 100% damage bonus, didn't retest yet this patch)
• Kill Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 4.2
• Multi-Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .6 - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
• Powershot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 8 (damage to the primary target, no longer suppresses autoshot)
• Serpent Sting: RAP * .08 + 1620.19 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec)
• Steady Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .5 + 997
• Wild Quiver: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .85

Pet:

• Bite/Claw/Smack: (RAP * .168 + 142) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)
• Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 6
• Lynx Rush: pet melee dmg * 2 per attack (9 attacks total over 4 sec)
• Kill Command: (RAP * .7 + 698) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)
• Melee: (RAP / 14 * 2 + 311.575) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)

Summoned Pets:

• Dire Beast: RAP * .2857 + 1246.3 per hit (does about 8 attacks but sometimes only 7), now scales with BM mastery
• A Murder of Crows: RAP * .206 + 560.834 per hit (30 attacks) - does not scale with BM mastery (treated as damage coming from hunter)

Yes, the BM number (as well as the other specs) already includes the command nerf in both the before and after, since that patch had hit already.

I was surprised it didn't bring up the MM numbers more as well. MM doesn't use arcane shot during careful aim and doesn't have the mastery buff that SV has to arcane damage or the damage buff from The Beast Within, and it spends some of the extra focus on aimed shot instead of arcane, so it may be just that the amount of value MM gets from arcane is lower, but I was surprised that the difference was so small.

On looking more closely it looks like readiness managed to get turned off at one point for MM in my settings, so turning that on brings the dps up to 94351.04. I'm not sure if it was off when I ran the before numbers, but I'm thinking it wasn't, which would mean that the buff was 3.15% which seems more likely.

If anyone wants to start with my settings as a base for their own tests, this is what I've been using:
BM: Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer
MM: Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer
SV: Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

With the buff to Blink Strike, how is Lynx Rush still on top?

Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 6 on 20 second CD
Lynx Rush: pet melee dmg * 2 per attack (9 attacks total over 4 sec) on 90 second CD

Over 90 seconds you should be able to get 4.5 Blink Strikes per Lynx Rush

So for Blink Strike = pet melee dmg * 6 * 4.5 or pet melee dmg *27
vs Lynx Rush = pet melee dmg * 2 * 9 or pet melee damage * 18

I can see how on a very short fight, less than 40 seconds, Lynx Rush would be on top but for the remainder of the fight except for between 90-100 seconds. I'm calculating that BS is on top.

Hi there

I have a few questions about CDs and CD management and certain behaviours. I believe the more feedback there is, the more accurate it will be. I have done much testing on my own but this to reaffirm all that and furthermore to get comments from the community.



Assuming the fight is Patchwerk style and CDs will not be needed for any other phase:

• Would it be a DPS increase to use all CDs (including the focus generating ones i.e. Fervor) at once and together or line them up one after another? If not then what would be the correct approach?
  
• I've noticed the pet continues to use it's basic attack during Lynx Charge, would it be a noticeable DPS increase to hold off using Fervor and instead use it during Lynx Charge provided that both CDs are close?
  
• Would it be a noticeable DPS increase to try and line up Rabid with other abilities or just leave it to proc on CD?
  
• How should Focus Fire be treated with respect to other abilities? Would it be a DPS increase to not consume FF during BW or Lynx Charge and if so how many stacks of FF is ideal?
  
• Do summoned pets i.e. Stampede, Crows etc benefit from haste procs or are they affected by the Hunter's base haste at all? I haven't been able to determine this but would the summoned pet attack faster if the hunter gains a significant haste or attack speed proc such as lust/heroism prior or after summoning the pet?
  
• Would it be a noticeable DPS increase to try and use Fervor only when Cobra Strike is available? And if so how much of an uptime on Cobra Strikes would be ideal?
  
• is there any data that would support the idea of trying to manage pet's basic attacks, for instance, with Cobra Strike only or when the pet is at 50 or more focus?
  
• How important is to be Expertise cap? I understand DPS spreadsheets emphasize it's importance but those of you who have done extensive Raid/Heroic testing on the Beta, would you also recommend the cap?
  

Please if you think my questions/comments are not conclusive or you can rearrange them to reflect the facts better, feel free to adjust as you see fit.

Readiness is what I was not factoring in. I see it makes a substantial difference when used very early and give LR a significant lead from the start and Blink Strike never catches up.

Many of these can at least be explored in the context of simc. As Gahddo and I were talking about profiles, we tried some, and the results were often a little surprising because we have so many abilities that interact with each other. But I'll start by summarizing things that seem largely decoupled:

• As far as we (a motley but unspecified group) have been able to determine, haste has no affect on murder of crows, lynx rush, dire beast, barrage, etc. Therefore timing them with focus fire seems counterproductive.
  
• Lynx Rush and Dire Beast are multiples of auto-attack, not basic attack. Therefore the wild-hunt multiplier behavior based on pet focus does not affect them at all. Thus they have no interesting interaction with either frenzy or fervor.
  
• Bestial wrath should still be used primarily for focus-costing, instant shots. The two possible exceptions are Powershot (which benefits from haste but takes several precious BW GCDs) and stampede. Therefore, overlapping rapid fire or focus fire with BW would seem a waste. So far, stampede seems worth the GCD just for the buffed AP from TBW,

Some additional notes:

• Arranging to stack cobra strikes and "wild hunt" by some means does look productive. 2x dmg with guaranteed crit is nothing to sneeze at, especially for BM. Because focus gains are so important, I believe it will be more productive to prioritize cobra strikes when the pet has focus rather than only use fervor when cobra strikes are up. For example, peak pet focus raises the priority of arcane shot, as does knowing that fervor is about to come off CD.
• Gahddo found surprising simulation results with fervor: it may be worth triggering even before you are down 50 focus just to get the extra 50-over-time ticking, start the CD resetting, simplify readiness timing, etc.
• Pets do inherit melee haste from hunters. That affects only their auto-attack though.
• Expertise cap is likely crucial for raiding. It would take an enormous difference in DPS results to offset the predictability of being hit/expertise capped, and hunters can get to it in blues pre-raiding. The exponential value of increased armor pen, in WotlK encouraged physical dps to not be hit-capped, but we don't have anything like that now. For example, Rageface needed >30k damage immediately to stop ripping someone's face off; doing better on average was not as valuable. Similarly, doing better on Deathwing's arm in exchange for missing on the elementium bolt would not "even out" even if the result was a better meter number. Further, it eliminates worry that special shots like tranq, silence, and wyvern will miss (and while often those have "never miss" behavior, that's always subject to change/bugs).
• Readiness has some surprises that demanded changes in the simc profiles. Many shots that could never overlap suddenly had to account for readiness. For example, black arrow, murder, lynx rush, fervor, bestial wrath, etc. all need a "!ticking" condition. That should be taken into account when doing napkin math for abilities as well.

Based on the changes in the latest beta build (16004), here are the latest formulas (note that I only updated abilities I had reason to believe had changed so it's possible other numbers have been stealth changed).

Spec Comparison:

Here are the current simulated damage numbers from my beta site in a T14H setup similar to what simc is using (and including whichever talent gave me the best numbers, which might not match simc), including the % damage drop from the previous patch mechanics. Note that I'm using an orc for these tests. I also modified these numbers after the post since I fixed a lot of bugs today and updated the profiles.

• BM- 109044.13 (1.3% nerf), Talents: dire beast, lynx rush, glaive toss (this patch brought dire beast above fervor again)
• MM- 100311.65 (no change), Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss
• SV- 100587.32 (2.5% nerf), Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss

Buff/Nerf Summary:

I did some raw calculations on a T14 heroic gear set. In this set I assumed 52k RAP and 15130.5 avg weapon dmg with a weapon speed of 3.0. With these stats here is a rough estimate of how much damage change there is to each modified ability:

• Black Arrow: 6.7% nerf
• Explosive Shot: 8.3% nerf

Notes:

• Dire beast change is just a tooltip error- the functionality is the same as the previous patch
• I fixed the JC gems in my gear setup and changed it up a bit to better reflect changes made in the simc profile
• I updated the proc mechanics on the Lord Blastington's scope- it seems to have a fairly high uptime (about 45%), so that also impacted the damage numbers
• Focus fire was reduced to 6% haste per stack again
• Improved sting formula was fixed

Current Formulas:

Hunter:

• Aimed Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 2.8 + 19541 (suppresses autoshot)
• Arcane Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) + 2306
• Barrage: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 6.4 (total damage to the primary target over 16 ticks, suppresses autoshot)
• Black Arrow: RAP * 1.5 + 1870 (total damage, split over 10 ticks)
• Chimera Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 2.1 + 2617
• Cobra Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .7
• Explosive Shot: RAP * .26 + 324 (per tick, there are 3 ticks)
• Explosive Trap: RAP * .0546 + 246.767 (initial damage), RAP * .0546 + 32.4038 (per tick, there are 10 ticks)
• Glaive Toss: (RAP * .2 + 872) * 4 (to the primary target, 2 will hit)
• Improved Serpent Sting: serpent sting formula * 1.5 (does benefit from the 100% damage bonus)
• Kill Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 4.2
• Multi-Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .6
• Powershot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 8 (damage to the primary target, does not suppress autoshot)
• Serpent Sting: RAP * .08 + 1620.19 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec)
• Steady Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .5 + 997
• Wild Quiver: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .85

Pet:

• Bite/Claw/Smack: (RAP * .168 + 142) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)
• Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 6
• Lynx Rush: pet melee dmg * 2 per attack (9 attacks total over 4 sec)
• Kill Command: (RAP * .7 + 698) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)
• Melee: (RAP / 14 * 2 + 311.575) * 1.5 (standard pet damage multiplier)

Summoned Pets:

• Dire Beast: RAP * .2857 + 1246.3 per hit (does about 8 attacks but sometimes only 7), now scales with BM mastery (not checked yet this patch)
• A Murder of Crows: RAP * .206 + 560.834 per hit (30 attacks) - does not scale with BM mastery (treated as damage coming from hunter)

I'll see if I can find an appropriate place to raise the issue. It's definitely primarily an issue with the LnL ICD- this bonus probably isn't very workable. The value of the 2pc is very tied to the current formula for explosive shot which keeps shifting.

Also, now that the beta server is up I was able to verify that dire beast formula has not changed- same duration as before as well (15 sec). Improved sting formula is also fixed (that may have been last build but I didn't check it till now).