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Old 07/14/12, 6:01 PM   #76
Esoth
Bald Bull
 
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Pandaren Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Readiness has been replaced by Blink Strike on the beta, which is very undertuned at the moment. It is on the GCD so if you consider it as effectively two "extra" pet attacks. In the span of a 3 minute window you would have 6 Blink Strikes for 12 extra pet attacks at the cost of 6 GCDs. By comparison, Lynx Rush would be 18 extra pet attacks at the cost of 2 GCDs.

With Lynx Rush already already known to be weak, Murder of Crows would have been by far the most damage for that tree, but it has been nerfed. I'm not sure what the armor formulas are now but I got some numbers on a level 85 target as a level 90. With 26405 AP each crow hit in the range 2685-2686. Number of attacks varied somewhat between 54 and 57. With 15619 AP each crow hit for 1691-1692; difference of 994 damage and 10786 RAP. 10786*(RAP coefficient)*(damage reduction from armor), (RAP coefficient) = 9.21%/(damage reduction from armor). Depending on how armor works now the RAP coefficient might not have changed since Rivkah's post but the base damage is obviously much lower. Does anyone know the boss armor and armor mitigation formulas at 90? I vaguely recall a blue post about it but could not find it.

Level 60 talent tree has two changes: Dire Beast has been moved here and Thrill of the Hunt has been nerfed significantly. I'm not sure if Dire Beast's damage was changed (level 85 target, 26405RAP = 13175 dmg hit, 15619RAP = 8205 dmg hit) but I was consistently getting 8 hits. Thrill of the Hunt now only works on Arcane Shot and Multi Shot instead of high focus abilities.

I'm not sure if this was viable in the first place, but it means you can't use a spec with TotH and Power Shot and then only use Power Shots when TotH was procced anymore. If you don't need the utility, Glaive Toss is the only ability that seems to be worthwhile for single target DPS, mainly because it is off the GCD. Target armor, Survival mastery, and weapon will all matter but it looks like the damage between Glaive Toss and Arcane Shot is at least comparable, with Glaive Toss costing 2 focus less and being off the GCD. If it's not worth using on CD it may be worth using in place of Arcane Shot as a focus dump at times.

Alts: http://www.esoth.com/wow/my-characters
Ion: Along with asking why we fight, and learning that our true enemy is war itself, a major theme of the Mists of Pandaria has been killing turtles
Hunter spreadsheet: http://www.esoth.com/files/mop/at_download/file

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Old 07/14/12, 7:25 PM   #77
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
...With Lynx Rush already already known to be weak, Murder of Crows would have been by far the most damage for that tree, but it has been nerfed. I'm not sure what the armor formulas are now but I got some numbers on a level 85 target as a level 90. With 26405 AP each crow hit in the range 2685-2686. Number of attacks varied somewhat between 54 and 57. With 15619 AP each crow hit for 1691-1692; difference of 994 damage and 10786 RAP. 10786*(RAP coefficient)*(damage reduction from armor), (RAP coefficient) = 9.21%/(damage reduction from armor). Depending on how armor works now the RAP coefficient might not have changed since Rivkah's post but the base damage is obviously much lower. Does anyone know the boss armor and armor mitigation formulas at 90? I vaguely recall a blue post about it but could not find it.
I've been doing testing at 85 (against the 85 dummy) for the simc implementation. Each crow hit seems to be roughly: RAP * .1142 + 282, so the RAP coefficient is unchanged. A few other notes: the 8 crows do between 7 and 9 pecks apiece; the strikes can miss, glance, or be dodged/parried. They are buffed by blood fury, though the buffs are delayed before they appear/disappear on the crows. There is some indication that haste now affects them (hence seeing 9 ticks for some crows) but I'm unconvinced as yet.

Edit: Esoth's numbers below (RAP * .1142 + 313.8) are much closer, and have been incorporated into simc.

Last edited by Lokrick : 07/16/12 at 10:47 AM.

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Old 07/15/12, 5:40 AM   #78
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
On armor and armor values;
Armor for a lvl 93 target is 24,835 (Curtesy of Zeherah, confirmed by GC here.

If its more the math behind the reduction (as opposed to the specific value) I'm sure either Zeherah can jump in and provide it, or it can be found in this thread over on maintankadin (if you can read and understand "Theck'ish")

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Old 07/15/12, 1:40 PM   #79
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Frostheim was the one who gave me the armor number btw- not sure if he got it from testing or GC. He also gave me this as the armor reduction formula for level 90 players: Target Armor / (Target Armor + 46257.5). I'm not sure if it's exactly correct but it seems in the right ballpark.

When I'm testing on dummies I usually just work off of the damage reduction percentages and not the armor numbers. Usually it's not too hard to figure those out on a specific level dummy since you can just work off your expected white attack damage in the character screen to give yourself a good idea (I usually like to use a white weapon with a very small damage range). I've been doing most of my testing on the level 80 dummy, which seems to be about 82.78% damage reduction. I also have a number of 97.6% damage reduction on the level 60 dummy, but that one might potentially be more off as I did that testing awhile ago and haven't been using that dummy much lately.

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Old 07/15/12, 9:17 PM   #80
Esoth
Bald Bull
 
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Pandaren Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Thanks. Theck gave me a slightly different value for "K" on twitter: 460203.33. Small enough not to matter much for our purposes (difference is about 0.03% mitigation). That would mean a mitigated hit would do 65.04% that of a non-mitigated it. I did the numbers again against the level 93 target dummy and got a simple two-variable problem:
26405*x+y = 2166/.6504
13121*x+y = 1179/.6504
RAP = 11.42%
Base = 313.8

I did the same for Dire Beast and its formula is unchanged (which seems to make it significantly better than the alternatives, suggesting that tier is due for review).

edit: Also it's worth noting that both the beast's and crows' attacks count as white attacks and can be glancing blows.

Alts: http://www.esoth.com/wow/my-characters
Ion: Along with asking why we fight, and learning that our true enemy is war itself, a major theme of the Mists of Pandaria has been killing turtles
Hunter spreadsheet: http://www.esoth.com/files/mop/at_download/file

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Old 07/23/12, 4:58 PM   #81
Adarant
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
Frostheim was the one who gave me the armor number btw- not sure if he got it from testing or GC. He also gave me this as the armor reduction formula for level 90 players: Target Armor / (Target Armor + 46257.5). I'm not sure if it's exactly correct but it seems in the right ballpark.
Crithto just confirmed in the Beta Class Balance thread that your formula is correct. In fact, he gave the formula for level 86 onwards as DamageReduction = TargetArmor / (TargetArmor + 4037.5*AttackerLevel – 317117.5).

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Old 07/24/12, 2:13 AM   #82
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I thought it might be useful to compile a list of the level 90 formulas we know currently, so I put together what I have so far. I've verified most of these formulas semi-recently, but they do tend to change sometimes without notice, so take them with a grain of salt. Note that for multi-target abilities I have only listed the primary target effect.

One thing to note, I noticed is that all the weapon damage based shots I tested seem to use the aimed shot style of weapon damage modifier now, where it actually applies the multiplier to the entire shot instead of the weapon damage portion. I'm not sure if Blizzard intends to keep them this way.

Hunter:
  • Aimed Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .724 + 9970.4) * 1.6
  • Arcane Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .0483 + 4611.3) * .65
  • Barrage: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3.2 (total damage to the primary target over 16 ticks)
  • Black Arrow: RAP + 4661.16 (total damage, split over 10 ticks)
  • Chimera Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .732 + 1794.67) * 1.15
  • Cobra Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .017 + 306.559) * 1.15
  • Explosive Shot: RAP * .311 + 517.21 (per tick, there are 3 ticks)
  • Explosive Trap: RAP * .0546 + 246.767 (initial damage), RAP * .0546 + 32.4038 (per tick, there are 10 ticks)
  • Glaive Toss: (RAP * .05 + 218.102) * 8 (to the primary target, 2 will hit)
  • Kill Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3
  • Multi-Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .6
  • Powershot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 4 (damage to the primary target)
  • Serpent Sting: RAP * .097 + 2030.22 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec)

Pet:
  • Bite/Claw/Smack: RAP * .36 + 329
  • Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 2
  • Kill Command: 1.8 * (.516 * RAP + 1021.96)
  • Melee: RAP * .2572 + 560

Summoned Pets:
  • Dire Beast: RAP * .5715 + 1246.5 per hit (may have changed since last test, does about 8 attacks)
  • A Murder of Crows: RAP * .1142 + 313.8 per hit (based on Esoth's tests, 54-57 attacks)

Last edited by Rivkah : 07/25/12 at 1:10 AM.

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Old 07/24/12, 1:20 PM   #83
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
I thought it might be useful to compile a list of the level 90 formulas we know currently, so I put together what I have so far. I've verified most of these formulas semi-recently, but they do tend to change sometimes without notice, so take them with a grain of salt. Note that for multi-target abilities I have only listed the primary target effect.

One thing to note, I noticed is that all the weapon damage based shots I tested seem to use the aimed shot style of weapon damage modifier now, where it actually applies the multiplier to the entire shot instead of the weapon damage portion. I'm not sure if Blizzard intends to keep them this way.
This is incredibly useful. Thanks! I've copied your list below where I will annotate comments based on the simc implementation. I'll edit the post as implementation or status changes. I use "MATCH" to mean not only that simc agrees, but also that all the data was extracted from the client meta-data rather than from data gathering in game. While there could be a meta-data errors (e.g. tooltip issues), if the tooltip and in-game behavior match, that's pretty high assurance.

Hunter:
  • Aimed Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .724 + 9970.4) * 1.6 - MATCH
  • Arcane Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .0483 + 4611.3) * .65 - MATCH
  • Barrage: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3.2 (total damage to the primary target over 16 ticks)
  • Black Arrow: RAP + 4661.16 (total damage, split over 10 ticks) - MATCH
  • Chimera Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .732 + 1794.67) * 1.15 - MATCH*
  • Cobra Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2 + RAP * .017 + 306.559) * 1.15 - MATCH*
  • Explosive Shot: RAP * .311 + 517.21 (per tick, there are 3 ticks) - simc bug now fixed
  • Explosive Trap: not yet tested
  • Glaive Toss: (RAP * .05 + 218.102) * 8 (to the primary target, 2 will hit) - MATCH
  • Kill Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3 - MATCH
  • Multi-Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .6 - MATCH
  • Powershot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 4 (damage to the primary target) - MATCH
  • Serpent Sting: RAP * .097 + 2030.22 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec) - MATCH

Pet:
  • Bite/Claw/Smack: RAP * .36 + 329 - different
  • Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 2 - MATCH
  • Kill Command: 1.8 * (.516 * RAP + 1021.96) - MATCH*
  • Melee: RAP * .2572 + 560

Summoned Pets:
  • Dire Beast: RAP * .5715 + 1246.5 per hit (may have changed since last test, does about 8 attacks)- I took these numbers from you.
  • A Murder of Crows: RAP * .1142 + 313.8 per hit (based on Esoth's tests, 54-57 attacks)- I took the parameters from Esoth. simc models 8 summons attacking every 2 seconds for 16 seconds. That results in 7-9 hits per crow (though 9 is rare).

*For some matches, the RAP coefficient is buried in the tooltip only rather than an explicit typed meta-data field. Those are both more likely to be out of date and require manual propagation to simc code if the meta-data changes.

Explosive Shot
Simc is still using the Cata formula. In theory, it's also changed to ignite mechanics. Have you noticed that in game? That will be next on the MoP simc hit parade.

Claw
This looks very different. From the meta-data:
$M1 = School Damage: physical (2) Base Value: 146.004 - 207.945 (1) - average 176.9745
Description : Claw the enemy, causing ${$M1+(($RAP*0.40)*0.20)} damage.

This corresponds to: 176.9745 + 0.08*RAP. I'm pretty sure simc doesn't actually do that either, however, so I'll need to do more investigation.

Last edited by Lokrick : 07/24/12 at 8:01 PM.

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Old 07/24/12, 5:53 PM   #84
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Lokrick View Post
Explosive Shot
Simc is still using the Cata formula. In theory, it's also changed to ignite mechanics. Have you noticed that in game? That will be next on the MoP simc hit parade.
I didn't test the changed mechanics in detail (just verified the formula was matching up relatively closely to my results), but I did verify that applying explosive shots before the previous ticks had expired would increase the tick damage on subsequent ticks. I didn't verify if the math on it was working accurately.

Originally Posted by Lokrick View Post
Claw
This looks very different. From the meta-data:
$M1 = School Damage: physical (2) Base Value: 146.004 - 207.945 (1) - average 176.9745
Description : Claw the enemy, causing ${$M1+(($RAP*0.40)*0.20)} damage.

This corresponds to: 176.9745 + 0.08*RAP. I'm pretty sure simc doesn't actually do that either, however, so I'll need to do more investigation.
I don't recall the formula ever perfectly matching what was described in the tooltip on live either, although it's been awhile since I looked at it. I always wondered if I misinterpreted the way that formula was meant to work. The numbers I have are based on dummy tests so I can't say if the exact multipliers and +dmg are accurate, I can just say they're in the right ballpark and that testing at various RAP levels I was getting results which fit the formula. If I recall I think when you look at the ability tooltip the numbers it gives don't match what you get attacking the target, so it's possible the meta-data was just never updated.

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Old 07/25/12, 12:19 PM   #85
Starfox
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by Lokrick View Post
Explosive Shot
Simc is still using the Cata formula. In theory, it's also changed to ignite mechanics. Have you noticed that in game? That will be next on the MoP simc hit parade.
ES does not use ignite mechanics

It always ticks the same as the initial hit, but seems to use DOT_REFRESH, else I can't explain why the last shot would give me 3 ticks afterwards

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Old 07/25/12, 2:22 PM   #86
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Starfox View Post
ES does not use ignite mechanics ...
It always ticks the same as the initial hit, but seems to use DOT_REFRESH, else I can't explain why the last shot would give me 3 ticks afterwards
The last shot has 4 ticks of 5433.5, the first of which happened to crit (hence 10,866). Thus, the data you posted matches ignite for shots of 4106, 4060, and 4530. The "Total" column is Damage * Ticks; that should be how much damage is remaining to be done. "After Tick" is simply the total after taking the tick represented by the line (i.e., Total - Damage). "New shot" is The Total from which the current tick will be computed (on the current line) minus the the previous "After Tick", all divided by 3. Thus, it assumes that the new Total is "New Shot"*3 + previous "After Tick".

DamageCritTicksTotalAfter TickNew Shot
4106 3 12318 82124106
4106 28212 4106  
4072 416288 12216 4061
4071 312213 8142  
5433Y421732 16299 4530
5433 316299 10866  
5433 210866 5433  
5433 15433 0  
This doesn't mean that the mechanics are ignite mechanics, but it does work for this case, and regular dot mechanics does not work for some of the other cases (e.g., where tick damage it outside the possible damage for that weapon/PA combo.

Edit: StarFox pointed out that the 4530 above it too high for the variance allowed by ES. So the model is still up in the air.

Last edited by Lokrick : 07/25/12 at 5:16 PM.

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Old 07/25/12, 6:40 PM   #87
Starfox
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by Lokrick View Post
The last shot has 4 ticks of 5433.5, the first of which happened to crit (hence 10,866). Thus, the data you posted matches ignite for shots of 4106, 4060, and 4530. The "Total" column is Damage * Ticks; that should be how much damage is remaining to be done. "After Tick" is simply the total after taking the tick represented by the line (i.e., Total - Damage). "New shot" is The Total from which the current tick will be computed (on the current line) minus the the previous "After Tick", all divided by 3. Thus, it assumes that the new Total is "New Shot"*3 + previous "After Tick".

DamageCritTicksTotalAfter TickNew Shot
4106 3 12318 82124106
4106 28212 4106  
4072 416288 12216 4061
4071 312213 8142  
5433Y421732 16299 4530
5433 316299 10866  
5433 210866 5433  
5433 15433 0  
This doesn't mean that the mechanics are ignite mechanics, but it does work for this case, and regular dot mechanics does not work for some of the other cases (e.g., where tick damage it outside the possible damage for that weapon/PA combo.

Edit: StarFox pointed out that the 4530 above it too high for the variance allowed by ES. So the model is still up in the air.
As we talked in irc, ES is a clusterfuck at the moment, it seems random when ignite behaviour triggers. I worked out my screenshot.
My hunters ES tick range is 4050 - 4144 (should be 98 point range, so there is still 4 points of leeway up and down).
We start with a pool of 0 of course, ES hit is the process of adding to the ignite pool (base tickdmg * 3), a tick is when the pool ticks down. The damage when ES lands is HIT (+pool) followed by a recalculation of the tick dmg and a TICK (-pool)
Crit tricks only deal more dmg, the don't add or substract more from the pool than normal ticks.
hittickchangePoolnext tick
00000
41070+4107*3123214107
04107-410782144107
04107-410741074107
40720+4072*3163235411
04072-407212251?????
It seems like the 2nd ES did not even trigger ignite behaviour, there should be still damage left in the pool, so the tick should be way higher than 4k. So if we discard the 1st ES dmg we get
hittickchangePoolnext tick
00000
40720+4072*3122164072
04072-407281444072
04107-407240724072 (would be)
40760+4076*3163005433 (recalculated: pool/3)
05433-5433108675433
05433-543354335433
05433-543305433
05433-5433-54330 (faded)
This works out like a charm, the first ES hits for 4072, building the pool up to 12216. Then we have 2 ticks, which drain the pool down to 4072. After that the second ES hits for 4076, adding 12228x3 = 16300 and the tickdamage recalculated to 5433. At the end we have _4_ tick events, this seems to be a problem with refreshing so it adds a tick, but the damage als already calculated with pool/3, that's 5433 free damage that came out of nowhere.

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Old 07/26/12, 12:15 PM   #88
Ristoril
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Medivh
In case Lokrick didn't notice yet, his question in the beta class balance thread on this topic recieved an answer

Explosive Shot mechanics: Some time ago, GC announced that explosive shot would join other effects in having "ignite" mechanics. We have been testing it recently to model it in Simc and FemaleDwarf. The mechanics have clearly been changed, but don't match the typical ignite model. For example individual ticks to crit and debuff changes on the target affect the damage of future ticks. Further, some damage appears not to get rolled into the ignite-style debuff. We have looked at a few models (e.g., the ES under LnL don't do ignite but other do, crit dmg is subtracted from the dot pool, etc.). So far the models don't correctly model crits. Can you please explain the actual and/or planned future mechanics here?
The version in your current build has a bug with this rolling periodic-type effect on Explosive Shot in particular. That’s been fixed for the next beta build. I believe, in that build, it’s not counting the extra initial periodic tick that Explosive Shot deals when calculating the rolling damage. Regardless, fixed for the next build.

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Old 07/28/12, 3:13 AM   #89
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Based on the changes in the latest beta build, I did testing tonight to verify the new formulas. I've updated my formula list based on my tests. I haven't updated my alpha site yet to the latest formulas, so I can't give an estimate of how this shifted specs comparatively but I'll do that tomorrow.

Notes:
- They converted most weapon damage based formulas to a much simpler format that doesn't involve doubledipping RAP. So the buffs are not as big as they appear when you look at the formulas
- It turns out there was a hidden 80% damage bonus to pets which wasn't really shown before but has now been codified as part of all 3 pet specs. This explains the strange melee and bite/claw/smack formulas I was seeing before
- They've clarified now that wild quiver is meant to be half of the damage we have on live, but they buffed mastery accordingly (or most of the way)
- MM now gets 4% proc chance for 1 mastery (up from 2.1) and BM now gets 2% pet damage for 1 mastery (up from 1.67)
- Glaive Toss is now on the GCD (which I expected, they weren't going to leave a damaging ability off GCD)

Buff/Nerf Summary:

I did some raw calculations on a T14 heroic gear set. In this set I assumed 52k RAP and 15130.5 avg weapon dmg. With these stats here is a rough estimate of how much damage change there is to each ability (to a single shot/attack):
  • Aimed Shot: 20% buff
  • Arcane Shot: 58% buff
  • Barrage: 100% buff
  • Black Arrow: 88% buff
  • Bite/Claw/Smack: 5% buff (not 100% sure if this was buffed or if I just had measured the formula slightly off before)
  • Chimera Shot: 9% buff
  • Cobra Shot: 17% nerf
  • Explosive Shot: 6% buff
  • Glaive Toss: 100% buff
  • Kill Command: 90% buff
  • Powershot: 100% buff
  • Steady Shot: 22% buff

Current Formulas:

Hunter:
  • Aimed Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 4 + 39880
  • Arcane Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 1.1 + 5484
  • Barrage: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 6.4 (total damage to the primary target over 16 ticks)
  • Black Arrow: RAP * 2 + 2490 (total damage, split over 10 ticks)
  • Chimera Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3 + 5385
  • Cobra Shot: avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2
  • Explosive Shot: RAP * .333 + 415.5 (per tick, there are 3 ticks)
  • Explosive Trap: RAP * .0546 + 246.767 (initial damage), RAP * .0546 + 32.4038 (per tick, there are 10 ticks) - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
  • Glaive Toss: (RAP * .1 + 436) * 8 (to the primary target, 2 will hit)
  • Kill Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 3 - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
  • Multi-Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .6 - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
  • Powershot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * 8 (damage to the primary target)
  • Serpent Sting: RAP * .097 + 2030.22 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec)
  • Steady Shot: (avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) * .7 + 4013
  • Wild Quiver: 50% autoshot damage (not normalized)

Pet:
  • Bite/Claw/Smack: (RAP * .21 + 208) * 1.8 (standard pet damage multiplier)
  • Blink Strike: pet melee dmg * 2
  • Kill Command: (RAP + 997) * 1.8 (standard pet damage multiplier)
  • Melee: (RAP / 14 * 2 + 311.111) * 1.8 (standard pet damage multiplier)

Summoned Pets:
  • Dire Beast: RAP * .5715 + 1246.5 per hit (may have changed since last test, does about 8 attacks) - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)
  • A Murder of Crows: RAP * .1142 + 313.8 per hit (based on Esoth's tests, 54-57 attacks) - not retested (notes don't indicate a change)

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Old 07/28/12, 1:07 PM   #90
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
Based on the changes in the latest beta build,...

Explosive Shot: RAP * .333 + 415.5 (per tick, there are 3 ticks)
A few additional tidbits: Mechanically, ES does SPELL_DAMAGE on impact, and has two DoT ticks. Those go into the rolling "ignite-style" dot. It appears to reroll the damage that it injects into the rolling ignite, so the dot damage is never the same as the impact damage. I have an example in which the initial impact crits, but have not yet seen crits for either individual dot ticks or the injection into the rolling dot. I think this will only matter for FD if indeed there's no crit damage in the last two ticks of ES.

Click Here ← Click Here
7/27 23:14:09.791 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Raide r's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/27 23:14:09.920 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Raider's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,581,-1,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/27 23:14:09.920 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Raide r's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/27 23:14:11.035 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Ra ider's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,451,-1,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/27 23:14:12.081 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Ra ider's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,451,-1,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/27 23:14:12.081 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF13079AA000028F9,"Raide r's Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF

7/28 00:27:51.120 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive_Shot",0x4
7/28 00:27:51.316 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:51.316 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4412,4411,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:52.101 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 00:27:52.256 SPELL_AURA_BROKEN_SPELL,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8," Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,3355,"Freezing Trap",0x10,53301,"Explosive Shot",4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:52.256 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4037,4036,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:52.256 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4269,4268,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:52.256 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:53.115 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 00:27:53.335 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4161,4160,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:53.335 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4239,4238,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:53.335 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:54.194 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 00:27:54.328 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,5650,5649,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:54.436 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,8551,8550,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:54.436 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:55.338 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,6643,6642,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:56.282 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,6642,6641,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:57.356 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,6642,6641,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:57.356 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF

7/28 00:27:58.551 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 00:27:58.967 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4108,4107,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:27:58.967 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 00:27:59.822 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4092,4091,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:28:00.807 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4092,4091,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 00:28:00.807 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF


Edit: I got a sequence with a tick that crits (along with an identical one that didn't). Additionally, the initial tick damage is higher than the initial impact damage, thus reinforcing that the dot is a different damage roll rather than some function of the impact damage.
Click Here ← Click Here
7/28 10:22:41.010 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 10:22:41.261 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,8632,8631,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:41.261 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 10:22:42.296 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4420,4419,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:43.343 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,8840,8839,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:43.343 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 10:22:50.608 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4
7/28 10:22:50.810 SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Training Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4093,4092,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:50.810 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF
7/28 10:22:51.842 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,8167,8166,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:52.702 SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Tr aining Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,4083,4082,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/28 10:22:52.702 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000004AED15,"Mokhunter",0x511,0x0,0xF1307F9B000028F8,"Train ing Dummy",0x10a28,0x0,53301,"Explosive Shot",0x4,DEBUFF

Last edited by Lokrick : 07/28/12 at 1:26 PM.

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