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Old 09/03/12, 9:54 PM   #31
Namarus
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Hunter
 
Demon Soul
Is there anyway that the site could factor in movement and switching between aspect of the fox while moving. For example maybe setting up-time for Fox vs Hawk and the number of globals wasted on aspect switching?

Currently while I've been testing on dummies moving around and honestly i find that Dire Beast does not perform as well during movement when switching to cobra/fox for regen. However with Thrill my dps stays decently high.

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Old 09/03/12, 10:51 PM   #32
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Namarus View Post
Is there anyway that the site could factor in movement and switching between aspect of the fox while moving. For example maybe setting up-time for Fox vs Hawk and the number of globals wasted on aspect switching?
It's already been announced by Blizzard that they are removing the global on aspect switching. So there's no need to add special handling for it.

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Old 09/04/12, 6:28 AM   #33
Hamsda
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
It's already been announced by Blizzard that they are removing the global on aspect switching. So there's no need to add special handling for it.
It is? Could you provide a link to the according post?
I thought they specifically (re)implemented it to disable the usage of aspect+shot macros for maximum hawk uptime... guess I'll have to make new ones then, since I deleted the old ones. :x

There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Old 09/04/12, 8:03 AM   #34
Nandei
Von Kaiser
 
Nandei's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Hamsda View Post
It is? Could you provide a link to the according post?
Ghostcrawler posted about it in beta forums:
[Hunter] Aspects are now on the regular GCD - Forums - World of Warcraft

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Old 09/06/12, 1:00 PM   #35
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
While doing some analysis of SimC results, I noticed an unideal situation in FD.

It involves with how the second use of Readiness if being used. It was used immediately off CD with no regards to how soon other abilities are coming off CD. Here is what I observed in a run that I did in regards to the primary MM CDs:

RF: When Readiness is used, RF still have about 75s left on its CD, so using Readiness then lets us use RF about 75s sooner. There is no reason to delay Readiness use for RF in most cases.

CS: 9s CD. I have seen Readiness used in FD with less than 1s left on CS CD.

DB: 30s CD. I have seen Readiness used with less than 7s left on the DB CD.

MoC: 2 min CD. Readiness is usually used pretty well in regards to the MoC CD. The previous MoC was cast just over 30s before, which is ideal.

GT: 15s CD. Not really worried about the GT CD in regards to Readiness. It is not as important as the other shots and has a short CD anyway.

Is there anyway to make FDs usage of Readiness be a little smarter and to be delayed if for instance DB has less than 10s left on its CD to wait for DB to be cast first. I probably would not worry about making it smart for GT, and it is probably not worth it for CS.

On option coule be to add a new option for Maximum Time to Delay Readiness. I would have a default of 15s and have it basically ignore GT and CS CDs. If a major CDs like DB, MoC, RF have less than 15s left on its CD at the time that Readiness becomes available, then Readiness will wait. Once those CDs are used or more than the delay time has elapsed, then the criteria for delaying is no longer in effect and Readiness is used.

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Old 09/06/12, 10:30 PM   #36
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Whitefyst View Post
Is there anyway to make FDs usage of Readiness be a little smarter and to be delayed if for instance DB has less than 10s left on its CD to wait for DB to be cast first. I probably would not worry about making it smart for GT, and it is probably not worth it for CS.

On option coule be to add a new option for Maximum Time to Delay Readiness. I would have a default of 15s and have it basically ignore GT and CS CDs. If a major CDs like DB, MoC, RF have less than 15s left on its CD at the time that Readiness becomes available, then Readiness will wait. Once those CDs are used or more than the delay time has elapsed, then the criteria for delaying is no longer in effect and Readiness is used.
I've been trying to brainstorm on the best way to address this. There is currently some behind the scenes code which delays readiness for rapid fire if it's close to coming off CD, so I could do something similar for other abilities, but I would need to identify which abilities this makes sense for. 15s I think is what it's set to now. I'll see if I can find time to work on that this weekend.

I should also note that I did finally add support for stormlash totem. During my testing, I determined that currently stormlash is actually using hunter melee attack power instead of ranged attack power to calculate the damage our stormlash procs do, which is making them quite weak. I've reported the issue and I hope they'll address that. Stormlash also uses spell crit chance instead of physical crit chance, which is disappointing- it would seem to be fairer to physical classes if it picked the higher number like it does for AP/SP, but I guess they've decided it should just be treated as a spell.

I also was informed that Skull Banner might be worth adding support for, so once I can do a little testing to verify whether it applies to pets, I'll add in support for it (technically you could fake it using the custom buffs but I suspect it'd be useful to have more direct support for it).

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Old 09/07/12, 9:16 AM   #37
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
I'm guessing it doesn't influence DPS results but the FPS column lacks numbers for KC and DB. I could easily calculate and check numbers for all the listed ones.

Using this profile, I have +1.77 FPS for Dire Beast (5/2/1.41) and -5.87 for Kill Command ([60*40+12*20]/450s). Adding the +4.2 passive regen and 0.88 from invigoration (15%*20*132/450s) I end with -0.08s FPS; -36 focus over 450s.

Can you check and add these?

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Old 09/07/12, 10:35 PM   #38
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I added skull banner support. Based on my testing it looks like skull banner does affect pets. I wasn't able to find 2 warriors at a time to test so I'm not sure if it stacks- currently I have it modeled as stacking.

Update: I changed it to model it as non-stacking since stacking seems too powerful so it likely won't be allowed.

Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
I'm guessing it doesn't influence DPS results but the FPS column lacks numbers for KC and DB. I could easily calculate and check numbers for all the listed ones.

Using this profile, I have +1.77 FPS for Dire Beast (5/2/1.41) and -5.87 for Kill Command ([60*40+12*20]/450s). Adding the +4.2 passive regen and 0.88 from invigoration (15%*20*132/450s) I end with -0.08s FPS; -36 focus over 450s.

Can you check and add these?
Sure, I just fixed it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. The kill command issue was a display bug (since I'm doing some hacks to get it to show up both in the pet and hunter report). Dire beast wasn't supported for fps because it's not actually costing or regenerating the focus on cast, so I had to implement it a little differently (based on the dire beast pet attack count) but it should be showing up now.

Last edited by Rivkah : 09/08/12 at 12:20 AM.

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Old 09/08/12, 11:11 PM   #39
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I just made a change which will bring all specs down a bit in dps, but especially BM. It turns out I had a bug where I was accidentally applying hunter's mark to the pet damage which is incorrect. It's fixed now.

I also did some tweaking for readiness. There is now a configurable setting for the maximum time to delay readiness for a cooldown (up to a max of 20 seconds). Note that right now it doesn't have a cap on how long it waits, just that if it is due to cast and we have one of the supported abilities coming off cooldown within that time period, it'll wait to be cast. I might change it to have a firm cap on the delay instead (so that it won't keep pushing it off if new cooldowns come up) but I'll wait and see how this works out. Right now it will not apply the delay if the fight has 30 seconds or less left.

Note that the original behavior only applied to rapid fire and was 20 seconds. I've changed the default to 15 but added in delays for dire beast, murder, lynx rush, beast within and powershot.

Additionally I've made things a little smarter with regards to rapid fire. If you have maximum focus speed for haste cooldowns set, it will not delay casting rapid fire for it if readiness is off cooldown, since it seems wasteful not to use rapid fire if you're about to cast readiness anyhow and get the cooldown back up. I applied similar behavior to suppressing bestial wrath and rapid fire at the same time- if you turn this setting on, it will only be applied if readiness is on cooldown or not enabled.

I also configured serpent sting and black arrow not to cast if there are only 5 seconds or less left in the fight.

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Old 09/13/12, 12:59 PM   #40
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
I've tried to reach a point were the pet could use its basic attack on cooldown (3s) but it seems like it's impossible, even with absurd amounts of haste (1315%) your tool only go down to 3.28s.

Is it due to a possible bug or is it because pets have a slight delay before they use an ability?

With the BM profile linked above, the frequency of basic attack is 3.41. Does it mean that Frenzy/Focus Fire and Invigoration won't scale (much) with gear?

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Old 09/14/12, 12:55 AM   #41
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
I've tried to reach a point were the pet could use its basic attack on cooldown (3s) but it seems like it's impossible, even with absurd amounts of haste (1315%) your tool only go down to 3.28s.

Is it due to a possible bug or is it because pets have a slight delay before they use an ability?

With the BM profile linked above, the frequency of basic attack is 3.41. Does it mean that Frenzy/Focus Fire and Invigoration won't scale (much) with gear?
There is a known issue in game with pets where they won't send the request to use their next basic attack until after they've gotten confirmation from the server that it's off CD. So even when full on focus it won't happen more often than every 3.3 sec on average (this actually varies a bit depending on latency and stuff in game, but based on log analysis, 3.3 sec seemed a reasonable average to use for simulation).

If you wish to turn off this behavior you can check the "Don't Emulate Known Bugs" option in the settings- currently this is the only bug I support via this setting.

Well having more regen will mean you will have less basic attack delays, it'll also mean you can perform more wild hunt attacks. But there's definitely a practical limit on how much you can increase your Frenzy/Focus Fire and Invigoration. Keep in mind that when we hit 90 our regen will go down as our gear won't be as good relative to level (which means we'll need more haste rating for the same amount of haste) so it'll be harder to maintain minimum basic attack delays.

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Old 09/14/12, 3:41 AM   #42
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
After having mulled it over for a while, I actually think its a good thing that the pet is focus starved on damage at the beginning, that means that BM wills cale a lot better with gear upgrades than previously, as roughly half our damage will also scale and get to "do more". It also means that crit doesn't hit s cap where its value bottoms out due to GftT not being worth anything anymore, and that haste actually scales better for us that it did pre 5.0.4. While it is (urrently) still the worst of the three stats, its not as bad as it was previously due to pet scaling. (It remains the worst because apart from the passive benefit there isn't really any actual benefit aprt from a few breakpoints that reduce dead time or allow 1 more AS while delaying KC for 0.3 secons or less).

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Old 09/21/12, 9:56 AM   #43
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
FD seems to not be modeling AI hardcasts correctly.

In using the MM Max DPS case with a Troll, it allows 3 consecutive AI hardcasts in a row in the situation where under RF, BL, Zerk, and DBx2 since you are regening basically just over 25 focus over the about 1.1s AI cast time. It appears that FD is deducting the cost of the AI cast at the start of the cast instead of at the end allowing for part of the focus cost of the shot to be regened during the cast.

Hence, FD shows the starting focus at the 2nd and third casts to be higher than it should as shown below:

AI cast #Start focus FDStart focus game
1100100
27550
35025

In game in this situation, you can actually start the first AI cast at about 75 focus and be almost exactly at 100 at cast end for the first AI to result with you having 50 focus upon completion of the first AI to be able to cast the second.

Just need to update AI to not deduct its focus cost until after the cast. It seems that it has its focus cost deduct at the start of the cast like for instants. The implementation seems fine for SS and CoS though since the focus "cost" of the shots and the regens are in the same direction and in cases of focus capping, you are capped either way.

Last edited by Whitefyst : 09/21/12 at 10:02 AM.

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Old 09/21/12, 11:23 AM   #44
Lilbitters
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by Whitefyst View Post
FD seems to not be modeling AI hardcasts correctly.
Nice catch, you're definitely correct on this and I updated my post accordingly, taking into consideration actual focus values at the start of Aimed Shot casts during the 30ish GCD shot sequences I was examining (also happened to find an issue around the 25th GCD after the MMM AiS, AiS, AiS, SS, which would leave you short attempting to cast the next AiS as it lists).

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Old 09/21/12, 11:26 AM   #45
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Whitefyst View Post
Just need to update AI to not deduct its focus cost until after the cast. It seems that it has its focus cost deduct at the start of the cast like for instants. The implementation seems fine for SS and CoS though since the focus "cost" of the shots and the regens are in the same direction and in cases of focus capping, you are capped either way.
I see what you mean. This unfortunately will not be easy to fix as the way shots are modeled right now does not actually process the start and end casts separately. I'll have to put in a special exception to handle this issue in how the focus regen is calculated in cases where hard cast aimed is being used. I should have time this weekend to address it.

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