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Old 01/30/13, 11:19 AM   #136
Mericet
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Kargath
That talent level in particular should be chosen to suit individual fights as they come up. For example, you need to avoid Lynx Rush on fights where your pet bouncing around to multiple targets is bad (amber shaper un'sok due to his shield, protectors of the endless, lei shi). Likewise, murder of crows is weak on fights where you may not have a 30 second window for important parts of a fight or for a long stretch of time (elegon, lei shi, tsulong). On the other hand, it's good if you can line it up for fights where you can take advantage of the reduced cooldown when placed on targets under 20% (possibly spirit kings, sha of fear). Blink strike is best when you either need to move your pet around more or want burst for low-HP targets due to certain fight mechanics (elegon, lei shi, possibly sha of fear).

And for fights where those things don't come into play, fight duration is a major factor because the abilities have different cooldowns and DOT durations. A fight that is just long enough to squeeze in the last bit of damage from a murder of crows cast but not long enough for another lynx rush could look very different from a fight that is a bit shorter or longer.

Basically, make sure you choose whatever suits the fight if it favors one specifically. And if it doesn't, try adjusting the fight duration in the settings tab of FemaleDwarf to see how the various abilities fare at different lengths.

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Old 01/31/13, 2:13 PM   #137
Arktem
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Firetree
Sadly the change caused LR to lose it's niche. Right now there is no fight that favors LR. MoC simply does far more damage, and in high movement fights, Tsulong, Elegon (Assuming you're still having issues killing adds) BS is just stronger.

I really hope they find a way to fix this, as I, and many others, were big fans of LR at the start of this tier.

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Old 01/31/13, 8:18 PM   #138
Ramrad
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Hunter
 
Wyrmrest Accord
Can someone tell me what is the point of tracking trinket procs/synapse/etc? As BM we just use whatever ability that is off of CD and ready to be used. Why do I care about my item procs? Currently I only track things like Hero/Lust or Skull Banner to know when to use Stampede.

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Old 02/01/13, 9:57 AM   #139
Mericet
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Kargath
If the fight is going to end in 45 seconds and you have Bestial Wrath available but your trinkets or gun enchant or whatever are due to proc in 20 seconds, you would be better off delaying Bestial Wrath (or rapid fire, rabid, etc...). As long as you're getting the full duration of the effect and would not lose a use by delaying it, you're better off waiting until you get the most out of it. The same is true during the middle of the fight as well, it's just harder to visualize because you aren't as sure how much longer the fight will last.

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Old 02/01/13, 10:46 AM   #140
Arktem
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by Mericet View Post
If the fight is going to end in 45 seconds and you have Bestial Wrath available but your trinkets or gun enchant or whatever are due to proc in 20 seconds, you would be better off delaying Bestial Wrath (or rapid fire, rabid, etc...). As long as you're getting the full duration of the effect and would not lose a use by delaying it, you're better off waiting until you get the most out of it. The same is true during the middle of the fight as well, it's just harder to visualize because you aren't as sure how much longer the fight will last.
This guy has the gist of it. To add onto the "Mid fight" part of what he said. Generally you can delay your CD's by 5 seconds, at the most, to account for other cooldowns/Trinket procs. If you were to look at my UI for example, I track both of my trinkets as well as my scope proc. By being able to see these things I can stack my cooldowns far more effectively. This is essential for BM Hunters, as you are basically playing Wack-A-Mole with your cooldowns. Survival has it a lot easier.

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Old 02/13/13, 6:02 PM   #141
 Tobin
Captain Slow
 
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Pandaren Hunter
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
Sadly the change caused LR to lose it's niche. Right now there is no fight that favors LR. MoC simply does far more damage, and in high movement fights, Tsulong, Elegon (Assuming you're still having issues killing adds) BS is just stronger.
Conversely since Tsulong's day phase only requires finite raid DPS, AMoC is still preferable after a certain point for the extra health you can knock off him specifically to shorten the encounter. Each night phase also lines up with Readiness as well, so you should be able to get nearly 2 minutes worth of AMoC during 4 minutes worth of night.

Last edited by Tobin : 02/13/13 at 6:07 PM.

Originally Posted by Bryne View Post
jesus christ Tobin kill it

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Old 03/04/13, 1:01 PM   #142
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I've updated the OP for 5.2, mainly the removal of Glyph of Marked for Death. No other changes for BM seem to warrant a change, and analytically, I don't see anything changing the secondary stats' relative worth to eachother or to agility.

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Old 03/05/13, 5:19 AM   #143
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
Beast Cleave is 50% instead of 30% in 5.2.

Which raise 2 questions that could be answered in the OP:
  • worms/chimerae: is their AoE worthless?
  • Targets caps for: single target rotation, Multi-Shot weaving (1xMS/4s), Multi-Shot spam.

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Old 03/05/13, 1:13 PM   #144
TheRazorsEdge
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Regarding the target caps, Arcane is more DPF vs 2 targets, and Beast Cleave is a wash at 50% on 2 targets, so 3-4 (depending on gear) would be the cutoff for weaving MS.

Due to the relatively short duration of the Beast Cleave effect and the focus cost of KC/MS, you're probably looking at a rotation solely composed of KC, MS, and Cobra for 3-4 targets. There just wouldn't be enough focus to cast Arcane, except possibly 1-2 under BW.

So the biggest open question would be when to delay KC in favor of keeping up Beast Cleave and when to drop KC entirely. It will be difficult to maintain 100% utilization of both abilities outside of TBW.

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Old 03/05/13, 3:13 PM   #145
Arktem
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
Beast Cleave is 50% instead of 30% in 5.2.

Which raise 2 questions that could be answered in the OP:
  • worms/chimerae: is their AoE worthless?
  • Targets caps for: single target rotation, Multi-Shot weaving (1xMS/4s), Multi-Shot spam.
Gonna ask what you mean on your first point. The beastcleave change won't effect it at all.

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Old 03/05/13, 6:25 PM   #146
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
Correct me if I'm wrong but using their exotic ability was already a (small) DPS loss with the 30% cleave, 50% make it worse.

The only scenario I found worth using is during glyphed Stampede. But there aren't many fight where you can use that.

Last edited by NoGoal : 03/06/13 at 4:02 AM.

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Old 03/05/13, 8:31 PM   #147
cmwilli
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
Gonna ask what you mean on your first point. The beastcleave change won't effect it at all.
The abilities are channeled meaning they aren't using auto attacks which are then not cleaving. One or the other must be chosen.

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Old 03/06/13, 4:46 AM   #148
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
Beast Cleave is 50% instead of 30% in 5.2.
Do you have a source for that? I've not seen anything mentioned about that in the patch notes and haven't been able to log in after the patch yet (servers only came up 9 minutes ago and it is a couple of hours before I can realistically log on).

Changes will be made to the OP when the information is verified and I've done a quick analysis on the conclusions - please do discuss, but also please qualify conclusions analytically or mathematically depending on what your conclusions are.

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Old 03/06/13, 6:22 AM   #149
Panalius
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Hunter
 
Alterac Mountains
Yeah, it's in the patch notes. Patch 5.2 Official Notes

"Beast Cleave now causes the pet to strike all other nearby targets for 50% damage (was 30%)."

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Old 03/06/13, 7:05 AM   #150
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Panalius View Post
Yeah, it's in the patch notes. Patch 5.2 Official Notes

"Beast Cleave now causes the pet to strike all other nearby targets for 50% damage (was 30%)."
Thanks, I could have sworn it wasn't there when I looked through them yesterday. Well OP will be updated a bit later for that then.

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