[MoP] Beastmastery 5.2 - Page 2

Lokrick · 08/30/12, 2:14 AM

Originally Posted by Goldengiff

I ran into it today when doing the daily cooking quest in northrend. Killed a mob with just KC and it wasn't lootable. I can do more testing to confirm.

In the soloing thread, Caribald noted that killing a mob with Chimera might not get you a heal if it dies first from the autoshot. In your case, you might actually have killed the mob with a charge/basic/melee because the Kill Command hit. The only way to determine what actually killed it is a log.

Nooska · 08/30/12, 3:17 AM

Just to clarify (I'm not sure if what I've written under Frenzy/FF is unclear somehow).
BW should be used on CD. Exception, if you have a haste cooldown up. Exception from the exception; if delaying BW will cause you to lose one or more BW over the course of the fight.
Bloodlust/Heroism is such practically always an exception from the exception - we gain more from it outside BW, but with a duration of 40 seconds, we will almost certainly lose a BW over the course of a fight by dealying. Bloodlust is also a seperat case from FF and RF due to increase the pets attack speed (like frenzy - actually excatly like a full stack of frenzy)

It is correct that you should not spend a 5stack of frenzy just before BW for 2 reasons; FF is a haste cooldown (not useful during BW) and Frenzy is an attack speed increase for the pet. You should not, however, wait for 5 stacks of frenzy to use BW (you never should have, even in cata, though I know some people advocated it).

Tydas · 08/30/12, 6:40 PM

About the chimera's Froststorm Breath, it's a real pain in the ass to use it properly as the pet need to be on passiv ( or not being attacking ) and set manually in front of the enemy pack..

With that said, is that realy usefull even for AoE damages ?

Fluflis · 08/31/12, 9:10 PM

Since we were talking about worm, Lynx Rush works as well while the worm channels Burrow Attack.

Pathemeous · 09/02/12, 5:21 PM

On the topic of tagging mobs and your pet:
I soloed Azgalor in Hyjal Summit pre-5.0.4 with only Kill command and pet attacks. I couldn't loot him after killing him.

Nooska · 09/03/12, 3:17 AM

I have confirmed Kill Command does not let you loot the mob in beta either. That leaves me with 2 test to do to see if I can explain how I could loot a mob my pet had killed without interaction from me (and indeed far away from me).
1) Lynx Rush may be considered the hunter (at least it sometimes seems as if I get threat from it, which may be a bug then).
2) Another player has damaged the mob, meaning any player damage makes a mob lotable, by the one that tagged it (and a pet tag points to the owning hunter)
If anyone else do these tests, please let me know.

Pathemeous · 09/03/12, 10:48 AM

1) Lynx Rush is considered the pet (can be seen from Recount too, you'll see Lynx Rush appear in your pet's attacks - using the option to not merge pets with owners). Tested on a random wolf in Elwynn.
2) Tested with a Disc Priest in Tol Barad. The pet had attacked a spider and the priest finished it. The mob was lootable by me (the hunter).

This would suggest that option 2 was the cause.

Pathemeous · 09/03/12, 11:24 AM

On the topic of BM DPS, I have a few considerations

Considering an opener of BW+KC-> LR + Readiness -> KC -> AS -> AS -> AS -> AS -> AS -> KC (allowing 3 KCs in the first BW duration), would it be wise to spend a RF somewhere before Readiness (I made a macro with RF + LR), seeing that the CD will be reset anyway.
The haste itself is not very useful, but the resulting increased focus regen comes in handy when doing two BW in quick succesion (~3 seconds gap to let the CD on KC get low enough to allow 2 KC in the next BW. In this gap applying SrS and popping DB).
Doing some napkin maths:
4.40 base focus regen
6.16 when affected by RF (+40%)
5.72 when affected by Chronohunter (+30%)
8.01 when affected by both RF and Chronohunter (+82.0454545%)
Especially because stacking them increases the focus regen exponentionally, it is free focus without execution time.

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Considering Dire Beast, how do others use this in the opener? I hear of people popping DB before doing BW, I heard of people macroing DB into BW (lines out nicely every minute).
I use Dire Beast after applying SrS when my first BW has ended (might consider whether to prioritize SrS or DB). Due to all the haste effects (as I mentioned above), and me using a CS to get at a more comfortable focus level for the next BW, I often end up capping focus a little during the BW (8Focus/s + 5Focus from DB = 13 Focus, while AS only spends 10Focus during BW).
I could consider leaving the CS and starting the next BW one second earlier, which should still allow 2 KC during the second BW.
Interested to hear how others value the short CD of DB in the priority with 2xBW happening.

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How do others handle LR?
Personally, I use 2x LR in the opener. I tried leaving them out but that greatly reduces the burst potential (8K difference IIRC).
This would suggest that spending a GCD on Lynx Rush during BW as opposed to an AS is a big gain and therefore LR should be stacked with BW as much as posisble without lowering the amount of LR in total.
In a fight that lasts less than ~3:12 minutes, which means there will be room for 3x LR (one in both BW in the opener, one after the CD has ended mid-fight), it would therefore be beneficial to delay LR by 30 seconds after it comes off CD to spend it during the next BW

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Do others use KS during BW?
The focus cost reduction of BW is lost when doing so, but seeing that KS hits for 420% Weapon Damage it would seem obvious to make it benefit from the 10% damage bonus from The Beast Within.
Mind here that You'd not delay KS at any point to make it line out inside the BW, it's simply a matter of whether or not to delay it during BW.

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Does anyone manually control Rabid in the same way as I described LR; by stacking it with BW whenever possible without lowering the amount of Rabids in total?

Nooska · 09/03/12, 12:12 PM

I would suggest macroing Rabid with LR.
As for opening, I am not quite ready to make a final determination on what to suggest, but I would currently say something on the order of;
SrS, BW, KC, LR, GT, Readiness, KC, LR, GT, AS, AS, CoS, BW, KC (etc).
I would pop SrS first to get it up and running, and I would add in that CoS before the second BW to extend SrS.
As to popping RF in there for the increased focus regen, that does sound like a good idea, but I'll remain neutral on it for now, untill I have some time to test it specifically - it would make sens in regards to keeping up SrS with a shorter CoS though, so another win there (remember to add in Glaive Toss or Powershot, currently Glaive Toss) before and after the Readiness.

Pathemeous · 09/03/12, 12:59 PM

Ah yeah, I'm not taking GT into account in my previous reply. Actually I'm on about lv85 scaling (I know the topic is meant for lv90, my bad)
Macroing Rabid with LR seems like a good plan, I'll take that advice.

By adding in GT it will become practically impossible to have a 3rd KC in the first BW.
This brings me to another point.
I'm not a long-time BM player, but using logic, would it be safe to say that having 10 GCDs that are affected by BW is impossible? Without doing proper logging, it seems that the following factors cause this:
1) Inaccuracy with popping BW.
You'll very probably pop BW a little bit before the GCD allows any action. You don't want to 'wait' for the GCD to end (visually watching it) for the known latency reasons, to try to reduce this factor, it's not worth it and won't work anyway (see 2).
2) latency between shots.
While in theory there's literally 10 GCDs, only the slighest bit of latency (which is unavoidable, regardless of your localisation) will bring this down to 9, as the 10th will fall just outside the BW frame.

Could anyone state if this is correct?

pichuca · 09/03/12, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nooska

I would suggest macroing Rabid with LR.
As for opening, I am not quite ready to make a final determination on what to suggest, but I would currently say something on the order of;
SrS, BW, KC, LR, GT, Readiness, KC, LR, GT, AS, AS, CoS, BW, KC (etc).
I would pop SrS first to get it up and running, and I would add in that CoS before the second BW to extend SrS.
As to popping RF in there for the increased focus regen, that does sound like a good idea, but I'll remain neutral on it for now, untill I have some time to test it specifically - it would make sens in regards to keeping up SrS with a shorter CoS though, so another win there (remember to add in Glaive Toss or Powershot, currently Glaive Toss) before and after the Readiness.

I´m pretty sure you just forgot it, but you should also pop Dire Beast just after LR, then Readiness, and DB again, you can have the two dire beasts at the same time. You need at least 4 or maybe 5 instant shots between each LR to make sure you cast the second when the pet has finished the first one, as it takes 4-5 secs for the 9 hits.

On live I´m doing almost exactly what you suggested: SrS, BW+RF+PVP trinket, KC, LR, DB, Readiness, KC, DB, LR, AS, AS(At this point BW is just about to drop, so I may overlap it for about 0.5 sec), BW, KC and then pop the second RF asap im out of focus after some more ASs+KC. I don´t really enjoy refreshing SrS during this phase, so I would just cast it again just before popping the second RF over refreshing it earlier with CoS. It is a small DPS loss (not even closely noticeable). That´s what I got after several hours of testing, trying to find out the best opening secuence. That leads to crazy burst both on Raid and PVP, being able to pull around 90-100k DPS for the first 20 seconds of fight, or either killing someone with full resil gear without even the need of shooting at him.

Don´t think that the opening secuence would change a lot at 90, just adding GT for another 2 GCDs.

Nooska · 09/03/12, 3:58 PM

Corect, I forgot about DB, as I've been using TotH extensively on the beta (toth is better for questing), and yes, DB should be popped in there - will remember to make a specific mention of having 2xDB up via readines when I get to the talents - hopefully later this week will see some time to extend whats currently up.
Adding DB (x2) should also remove the need/want for an RF in there for cous reasons - that just means we may want to delay readiness till after an RF sequence after the first BW (which also builds up focus, and helps not grabbing aggro on non hit-capped tanks for example) - will have to do some more analysis of that though.

Pathemeous · 09/03/12, 4:08 PM

Wouldn't it be better to split the two BW apart? This way you can a) spend the time in between them refreshing SrS with CS, b) have 5 KC in BW range instead of 3.

Then you have a) The SrS up from start without reapplying it, which you say is a (small) DPS gain, b) more abilities that hit harder than AS in BW range.

Surely, if you want to burst than back to back BW is of course better, but on long term this should improve your DPS.

In this sequence you can simply put the first LR in BW one, and the second LR in BW two. Delaying a 90 seconds long ability by 5 seconds won't usually redyce the amount you can squeeze in in a fight

pichuca · 09/03/12, 4:58 PM

Nevermind you can still get the 5 KCs in there delaying BW 5 sec, and still get the second LR and DB in the first BW. You just need to cast the first DB before BW, the beast will update its damage 1-2 secs after you pop BW. Right after the third KC you can use CoS and refresh the sting if you want to

javaman123 · 09/05/12, 12:39 AM

re: Agi>hit==exp (to cap)>>mastery>crit>>haste
I have confirmed that when I reforge for mastery over crit, I lose 10% of my DPS and overall damage.
Sure, my pet does 5% more damage. However, if I reforge for crit over mastery, it gives me 10% more DPS and damage using level 85 blood elf hunter (beastmastery)

Has anyone else had this same experience?