[MoP] Beastmastery 5.2 - Page 6

Fleckszilla · 10/14/12, 8:11 PM

Hey was just curious on a macro idea.

I use a lot of macros currently and have been back and forth trying to decide if macroing bite into arcane shot is worth it or not to ensure your pet using it as soon as its off CD. I am just looking to pick up even more dps if possible in any such way and thought this would possibly be a good idea. I have tried it multiple pulls here on heroic Gara'jal and I really cant tell so I wanted some second opinions on the issue. I know when I used to play DK back in WOTLK that Claw being macro'd into scourge strike was worth it so trying to see if there is something similar here.

thanks for the help in advance and look forward to hearing back on some ideas soon !

Physiq · 10/15/12, 1:22 AM

I would not imagine this would be of much use in the current gear since our pets are focus starved and will therefore not be able to put out the bite when you want it to. I do however not have any data to support this claim.

Nooska · 10/15/12, 4:09 AM

With the unpredictability of our shot choice - ie, the many actions we have, even if our pets weren't focusstarved, macroing bite to AS would not be a good idea, as there are far too many instances where we will not be hitting AS the second bite (or claw/whatever) is off CD, so we would be wasting more time not casting it by macroing it than by not macroing it.

sircuddles · 10/18/12, 6:42 PM

I'm noticing a lot of top parsing BM Hunters aren't using MoC, while all the SV one's seem to be, but I can't figure out a reason for this. MoC does more damage, and on a fight like Feng has guaranteed uptime. I was under the impression that for BM, LR and MoC are both affected by mastery, so MoC should be yielding the highest DPS, shouldn't it?

Physiq · 10/19/12, 2:19 AM

This might be due to how long this fight is. My own kill of Feng is just about 7 minutes long, so 420 second. This will give me 7 effective LR but only 5 MoC with a poosible 6th at the 7 min marker. So i would say i comes down to more LR that will give you more dmg then fewer MoC.

Nooska · 10/19/12, 4:18 AM

What you are noticing is actually the reason there is no "best talent" note in the OP in general, but a presentation of the talents strengths and weaknesses. The exception to this is if at some point one talent on a tier is obviously superior, then it will be noted, but not to the exclusion of the other talents.

♦ Tobin · 10/19/12, 7:02 AM

Originally Posted by sircuddles

I'm noticing a lot of top parsing BM Hunters aren't using MoC, while all the SV one's seem to be, but I can't figure out a reason for this. MoC does more damage, and on a fight like Feng has guaranteed uptime. I was under the impression that for BM, LR and MoC are both affected by mastery, so MoC should be yielding the highest DPS, shouldn't it?

MoC has major disadvantages in its focus cost, its inability to stack with itself and inability to jump targets. This makes it very disruptive at the start of an encounter and even long after. Heroic Feng for example has an additional phase with AoE targets that have to die very quickly. You could use MoC on Feng during this phase, but Lynx Rush would be more useful if you can't go SV outright.

To use another example, MoC is largely useless on Gara'jal in the spirit realm since the minions die in a handful of globals. You're very likely to end up delaying the use of MoC significantly on an encounter like that. Lynx Rush you can use immediately off cooldown.

Additionally this isn't specific to one spec or another...Lynx Rush's broader utility keeps it in my SV spec as well.

Namarus · 10/19/12, 9:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tobin

MoC has major disadvantages in its focus cost, its inability to stack with itself and inability to jump targets. This makes it very disruptive at the start of an encounter and even long after. Heroic Feng for example has an additional phase with AoE targets that have to die very quickly. You could use MoC on Feng during this phase, but Lynx Rush would be more useful if you can't go SV outright.

To use another example, MoC is largely useless on Gara'jal in the spirit realm since the minions die in a handful of globals. You're very likely to end up delaying the use of MoC significantly on an encounter like that. Lynx Rush you can use immediately off cooldown.

Additionally this isn't specific to one spec or another...Lynx Rush's broader utility keeps it in my SV spec as well.

Honestly some pretty stupid examples here. Why an earth would you want to use MoC on mobs that will die before the duration of MoC is up.

On Feng, one would keep MoC on the boss the whole time and the same with Gara'jal. 2 min cooldown, plenty of time to get it on the boss and leave it on him.

♦ Tobin · 10/19/12, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Namarus

Honestly some pretty stupid examples here. Why an earth would you want to use MoC on mobs that will die before the duration of MoC is up.

On Feng, one would keep MoC on the boss the whole time and the same with Gara'jal. 2 min cooldown, plenty of time to get it on the boss and leave it on him.

You seem to be misreading what I'm saying.

The timing of a fight like Gara'jal doesn't always give you the freedom to put MoC on the boss whenever it comes off cooldown so you are at severe risk of losing an extra cast or having one clipped at the end of some encounters.

Heroic Feng has a pretty tight check on the AoE phase at this gear level. If I were doing the fight as BM (I wouldn't,) I definitely would not be wasting a GCD by putting MoC on Feng...not at the risk of having him healed 25% because an add didn't die.

In short, MoC is basically a 60 focus DoT with a long cooldown vs Lynx Rush being 0 focus, closer to an instant damage ability with a shorter cooldown. MoC loses out greatly on flexibility for a slight theoretical DPS gain during dummy testing.

Karma · 10/21/12, 4:53 PM

With regards to a general shot priority, why is it I see on most sites that Kill Command is above Glaive Toss and Kill Shot? Both KT and KS do more damage for me than KC, and when messing with it in FemaleDwarf it shows more damage if I do KS > GT > KC

Just trying to find a reason for this. I understand when BW is up KC does more damage and thus should take priority then. But in the normal rotation I don't see why KC would be above KS and GT.

Rivkah · 10/21/12, 6:09 PM

I will note that the default shot priorirites on my site aren't fully optimized, so I wouldn't take them as a recommendation, more as a starting point. The button is primarily to get the right shots on your list at which point you can order them as you feel appropriate.

One thing to keep in mind though with Kill Command is that it has a much shorter cooldown than Glaive Toss and does only about 20% less damage (single target). The shorter cooldown is significant in that it is far more likely that delaying Kill Command might cost you another Kill Command than that delaying Glaive Toss will cost you another Glaive Toss. So although it probably is better to prioritize GT over KC, the results in some cases may favor the reverse. For kill shot I'd definitely prioritize it as the cooldown is not as long and you get 2 uses from it.

sircuddles · 10/22/12, 2:45 AM

Have we come to a conclusion on the optimal opener? Going through logs of H Gara in particular, I'm noticing some people are delaying BW at the start, but I'm unsure if it's intentional or on purpose. Currently, with MoC, I'm doing this:

MoC
Stampede
RF/Berserk
BW/KC
DB
GT
Usually fit 2 AS right here
Readiness
KC
GT
DB
BW when previous is finished
SrS
RF when previous is finished
AS x1000000
MoC when previous is finished

What can I improve about this?

Nithael · 10/22/12, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by sircuddles

Have we come to a conclusion on the optimal opener? Going through logs of H Gara in particular, I'm noticing some people are delaying BW at the start, but I'm unsure if it's intentional or on purpose. Currently, with MoC, I'm doing this:

MoC
Stampede
RF/Berserk
BW/KC
DB
GT
Usually fit 2 AS right here
Readiness
KC
GT
DB
BW when previous is finished
SrS
RF when previous is finished
AS x1000000
MoC when previous is finished

What can I improve about this?

I'm doing something similar but with some differences... (Using Linx Rush)

SrS
BW/RF
Stampede
LR
GT
KC
DB
AS until KC cooldown is ready
KC
Readiness
KC
BW
LR
GT
DB
SrS
KC, then normal rotation
RF when BW is off

It works pretty well for me. I'm doing ~200K (+/- 10K) DPS at the beginning of the fight.

Nooska · 10/22/12, 4:09 AM

The reason KC is above KS and GT is DPCD. While KS and GT may be more damage per execution time, KC is more damage per cooldown time. Also, it is a shorter cooldown, so by bumping it for a longer cooldown you lose more KC than you lose KS or GT - for every GCD you bump KC you lose 1/6th of the KC so if over the course of a fight you do it 12 times for GT and another 6 times for KS, you lose a full 3 KC, while if doing it the other way (assuming you bump the other shots everytime), you lose less than 1 GT and less than 1 KS for a given time period.
That said, high latency favors bumping shorter CDs due to the "always be casting" increase - it is always a bigger increase to use the wrong shot, than to not use anything for a GCD (or half a GCD), waiting for anything for more than about .3 seconds(including latency and choice reaction time) is a dps loss compared to hitting anything.

NoGoal · 10/22/12, 6:46 AM

Originally Posted by Karma

With regards to a general shot priority, why is it I see on most sites that Kill Command is above Glaive Toss and Kill Shot? Both KT and KS do more damage for me than KC, and when messing with it in FemaleDwarf it shows more damage if I do KS > GT > KC

Using the max dps BM profile, average damage is as follows:
KS (115k) > KC (104k) > GT (103k)

Only switching KS/GT around:

Source	Rotation	DPS	#KS	KS dps	#GT	GT dps	#KC	KC dps	#AS	AS dps	#total
Guides	KC>KS>GT	109159	14	3586	29	6622	71	16432	139	13686	253
Max DPS profile	KS>KC>GT	109412	16	4098	29	6622	70	16200	139	13686	254
Karma suggestion	KS>GT>KC	109530	16	4098	31	7079	68	15738	141	13883	256

Prioritizing GT over KC makes you gain AS shots thanks to it's low focus cost.