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09/14/12, 12:36 PM
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#16
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Namarus
On that note I was wondering if during your testing you noticed if Dire Beast's haste changed dynamically with haste changes from the hunter.
For example,
1. Use Dire Beast
2. Haste increase or decreases
Do Dire Beast attacks increase, decrease or remain static?
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Dire Beast has a base attack speed of 2 and does scale with the hunter's melee haste similar to hunter pets. I don't believe it scales with ranged haste like rapid fire (pretty sure I checked, but it's been a bit so it might not hurt to recheck). So the haste will increase the number of attacks your Dire Beast gets, which increases the damage done and the focus regen it gives the hunter, as long as the attack speed becomes fast enough to fit in additional attacks during the period Dire Beast is active for.
For example, with no haste on the hunter, the Dire Beast can get between 7-8 attacks (7.5). With heroism up, it goes up to 9-10 (9.75). Usually the extra attack will fit in since there is no delay on the first attack, but it seems a little erratic and doesn't always squeeze in the same amount of attacks for the same haste.
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09/14/12, 2:46 PM
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#17
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Rivkah
Dire Beast has a base attack speed of 2 and does scale with the hunter's melee haste similar to hunter pets. I don't believe it scales with ranged haste like rapid fire (pretty sure I checked, but it's been a bit so it might not hurt to recheck). So the haste will increase the number of attacks your Dire Beast gets, which increases the damage done and the focus regen it gives the hunter, as long as the attack speed becomes fast enough to fit in additional attacks during the period Dire Beast is active for.
For example, with no haste on the hunter, the Dire Beast can get between 7-8 attacks (7.5). With heroism up, it goes up to 9-10 (9.75). Usually the extra attack will fit in since there is no delay on the first attack, but it seems a little erratic and doesn't always squeeze in the same amount of attacks for the same haste.
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I think you misunderstood what I was trying to ask. Let me try to explain it again.
As you say you get around 7.5 attacks with zero haste when you summon a dire beast. However, does the number of attacks increase if you summon a 0 haste dire beast and then gain a haste effect, or does the "proc" haste effect have no effect on an already summoned Dire Beast.
Alternately if you have a haste proc active and summon a dire beast will it keep the haste that it was summoned at if the proc haste expires while it is active?
In other words does the Dire Beast update it's attack speed dynamically as hunter haste changes, while active?
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09/14/12, 3:13 PM
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#18
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Namarus
In other words does the Dire Beast update it's attack speed dynamically as hunter haste changes, while active?
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I'm fairly sure it does, although I didn't do detailed tests on the frequency of updates as it's difficult to measure precisely. Blizzard made changes in this expansion to make guardian style pets no longer freeze stats on summon but instead be kept up to date with the summoner stats. This applies to pets like fire elementals as well. I will note that my site doesn't accurately reflect this- the attack count is calculated when you summon the dire beast as it would have required a significant amount of extra code to explicitly simulate each dire beast attack separately.
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10/08/12, 9:58 AM
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#19
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Das Konsortium (EU)
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I was thinking about the best course of action in multi target fights, more specifically: when to use SrS or Multi Shot for multi dotting.
Here are my thoughts so far, using numbers from Rivkah's femaledwarf.com with my own char as a reference:
A. 2 or more targets, spread far apart
1 AS: 32900 dmg, 20 focus = 1645 DPF
1 SrS: 53969 dmg, 25 focus = 2159 DPF
Using SrS to dot other targets seems to be clearly better than only using AS as a focus dump, even when assuming that the other targets won't have the 5% spell damage debuff.
B. 2 targets next to each other (i.e. Stone Guard in Mogu'shan Vaults)
a) using 1 MS every 15 sec to also dot the second target:
One MS cast does ((10307 MS dmg + 16268 Imp SrS dmg) * 2 targets) + 53969 dmg for a full SrS on the secondary target
-> 107119 dmg for 40 focus = 2678 DPF
b) "spamming" MS
I'm not sure how to calculate what happens when you use MS instead of AS as a focus dump all the time. Let's say only the MS does damage, while the SrS dot has no chance to tick (which obviously is too low, because you can't just spam MS all the time):
((10307 MS dmg + 16268 Imp SrS dmg) * 2 targets)
-> 53150 dmg for 40 focus = 1328 DPF
So with two targets next to each other, it seems to be a good idea to use MS every 15 seconds to also dot the second target. I'm not sure what happens if you would simply use MS as a focus dump instead of AS while maintaining your normal rotation otherwise. FD.com says for 1 target it's "only" a loss of 2228 DPS (60637 DPS -> 58409 DPS), so for two targets the DPS loss will be smaller. Maybe it would be even a DPS gain.
C. 3 targets next to each other
a) using 1 MS every 15 sec to also dot the 2 other targets:
((10307 MS dmg + 16268 Imp SrS dmg) * 3 targets) + 53969 * 2 dmg for a full SrS on both other targets
-> 187663 dmg for 40 focus = 4692 DPF
b) "spamming" MS
Let's say again that the SrS dots don't do any damage at all, because I don't know how to calculate the dots:
((10307 MS dmg + 16268 Imp SrS dmg) * 3 targets)
->79725 dmg for 40 focus = 1993 DPF
I'm not sure what to make of 3 target fights. The DPF and DPS becomes better than using AS, so using MS as a focus dump while maintaining your normal rotation otherwise seems advantageous.
Would it be even better to forego other shots completely, only using CoS and MS? I don't know. ES only does 50499 dmg for 35 focus = 2020 DPF for me, which is comparable, and the DPS is worse... on the other hand there are the free LnL ES.
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edit:
Maybe FD can help if I try to alter the priority list a bit more. Using my own character as a reference:
2 targets, normal rotation but using MS instead of AS as the focus dump:
According to FD, this would be a loss of 2162 DPS in my case, but MS and Imp SrS do 3294 DPS which would be gained on the secondary target.
2 targets, spec into TotH instead of DB and use MS as the focus dump:
For a single target this would mean a loss of 4930 DPS and a gain of 4311 DPS from MS and Imp SrS on the second target, so it seems to be not a good idea. (For three targets, with 4311 DPS on both secondary targets it obviously would be worthwile to take TotH over DB)
3 targets, AoE rotation (ExT, RF, MS and CoS only, specced into TotH):
This would mean 21568 DPS lost single target, but 11934 *2 = 23868 DPS gained on the other targets. Without TotH it only would be 8140 *2 = 16280 DPS gained, though.
To sum up my thoughts so far:
- multi dotting with SrS is better than a simple AS if targets are spread far apart
- 2 targets next to each other: one MS at least every 15 sec is good; using MS instead of AS as the focus dump while still maintaining the normal rotation seems even slightly better. Speccing into TotH is not advisable, since it's a minor DPS loss.
- 3 targets next to each other: Using MS instead of AS as the focus dump is good; using the AoE rotation (Explosive Trap, Multi Shot, Cobra Shot, Glaive Toss or Barrage) seems slightly better if you're specced into TotH and worse if you are not.
Last edited by LilM8 : 10/15/12 at 10:34 AM.
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10/18/12, 5:47 AM
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#20
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Glass Joe
Orc Hunter
Laughing Skull
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I'm curious about our optimal opener while using MoC, since it has such a huge focus cost. What I've been doing, which I'm not sure is optimal, is the following (~4.5% Haste):
MoC
Stampede
RF/Berserk
DB
ES
GT
BA
SrS
CS
ES
Readiness
This gives me just enough focus to last through the opener and not be starved of focus. Popping RF/Zerk and DB earlier gives the most focus regen as early as possible. I've found that when I use a 'regular' opener, like with SrS or ES first, I'm ending up starved and forced to CS at awkward times.
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10/18/12, 6:14 AM
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#21
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Glass Joe
Pandaren Hunter
Twisting Nether (EU)
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When I run SV I do not go for DB, but Fervor. Hence my opener is a bit different.
SrS
BA
ES
Fervor
MoC
Stampede
RF
GT
ES
CS
Then i go by normal prio until Fervor is of CD use it and pop Readiness and MoC. Not the highest of burst but it gives a good start to a fight. However with a fight like The astone Guard I pop Readiness right after my first MoC and use Fervorf and MoC on one of the other dogs to really pump out some dps.
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10/31/12, 3:20 AM
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#23
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Glass Joe
Worgen Hunter
Lightbringer
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Femaledwarf is showing haste to be much better than crit for my hunter. Are there known haste plateaus? My ilvl is 484 and FD gives me the following stat weights.
Haste 1.699
Crit 0.773
Mastery 0.277
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10/31/12, 8:05 AM
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#24
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Glass Joe
Pandaren Hunter
Ragnaros (EU)
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Originally Posted by Smed
Femaledwarf is showing haste to be much better than crit for my hunter. Are there known haste plateaus? My ilvl is 484 and FD gives me the following stat weights.
Haste 1.699
Crit 0.773
Mastery 0.277
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Keep in mind that Haste values vary greatly based on a number of factors. In the real world, though, Crit -is- better than Haste by a significant amount.
The only reasonable "known" plateau (which is not really worth going for), is at 3864 haste, which allows your Dire Beast to attack one more time per duration.
Last edited by Azortharion : 11/01/12 at 7:27 AM.
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10/31/12, 12:04 PM
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#25
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Azortharion
The only reasonable "known" plateau (which is not really worth going for), is at 3784 haste, which allows your Dire Beast to attack one more time per duration.
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I believe that the extra Dire Beast attack occurs at 3864 haste. See section 5.8.5 in the MM detailed guide for a table.
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10/31/12, 11:44 PM
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#26
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Glass Joe
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For expertise, do we need to hit both caps for melee and range stats? My range stats shows 6.53% expertise with Dwarf racial, but the melee stats only shows 5.53% expertise. Just wanted to make sure.
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11/01/12, 5:30 AM
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#27
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Piston Honda
Goblin Priest
Mannoroth (EU)
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No, you will only need to cap the ranged portion, so 2210 expertise rating will be enough as a dwarf/troll to cap your and your pets expertise needs.
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There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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11/12/12, 10:06 PM
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#28
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Warrior
Windrunner
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@ LilM8,
Great post, though SrS ticks while spamming MS. This can be tested on the target dummies. Get a Thrill of the Hunt proc, then spam 5 multishots (you must get successive TotH procs from the Multishots). The damage log will show SrS ticks in a multiple of 7 (14 if 2 targets, 21 if 3), not a multiple of 5, meaning 2 ticks occurred during the MS spam.
When they created Cobra Shot they moved the SrS tick to a different timer from the DoT.
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11/16/12, 10:41 AM
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#29
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Hunter
Al'Akir (EU)
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Regardless of most raid targets being immune to CC component, Ice Trap seems to create a significant increase in chances of getting LnL procs, behaving cumulatively with BA, which makes me wonder why it is not mentioned anywhere on this thread, even using on CD and at a high priority.
Also I'm wondering if Glyph of No Escape has effect on raid bosses or is it worthless for raids?
Last edited by heliconius : 11/20/12 at 3:55 AM.
Reason: got an answer for that portion
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11/20/12, 12:59 AM
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#30
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Warrior
Windrunner
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Originally Posted by heliconius
Also I'm wondering if Glyph of No Escape has effect on raid bosses or is it worthless for raids?
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Freezing trap is the "ice block" trap, not the "ice patch" trap, so it won't work on the grand majority of bosses.
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