Replacing Relic of Xuen with Bottle of Infinite Stars Heroic seems to be a very minor dps gain with the profiles in the OP. Neutral case went from 109412 to 109715 dps (link), a gain of 303 dps, and max dps went from 114053 to 114212 dps (link), a gain of 159 dps. I reforged the mastery in BoIS HC into crit.

For some reason I'm getting higher DPS score on all cases if I simply just run them. As far as I can see, SV is above MM, so I'm guessing those results on the first page were made before SrS change or am I wrong?

Yes, the SrS change was just applied this morning, probably after he updated.

I have updated the numbers again to account for the changes since the last time I posted them. Note that I did not do any optimizations over what was previously there, so feel free to see if you can tweak more DPS.

The current single target numbers by spec look like:

Spec	Max DPS	% Behind
BM	131605	-----
SV	123526	-6.1%
MM	122170	-7.2%

From these numbers, SV seems to still clearly be ahead on single target fights.

Just taking the three existing Maximum DPS templates (for BM, MM, and SV) from the first post shows some interesting results with the current 5.2 settings:

BM: 129214 (down 2391)
MM: 125800 (up 3630)
SV: 124601 (up 1075)

A file is missing so I can't check the site at the moment but Zeherah changed support for Legendary gems so old saves don't include them anymore hence the lower result for BM. 5.2 changes compensated that for other specs.

I updated the 2 MM numbers as a starting point for others to maximize. A few things to note:

- This profile is 223 hit over the cap. I could not reduce that hit without replacing heroic thunderforged gear or tier pieces. Hence, the hit overcap stuck. This excess of hit makes the Shado Pan Assualt trinket a horrible option.

- ET is still a DPS loss in single target situations

- GT is a small DPS loss during the CA phase and can be ignored

- Delaying CS cast during the CA phase is best but not much better than using CS on CD

- Naturally this set up started with a huge amount of haste at over 8000. Reducing this haste much though is a DPS loss since 7896 haste rating is the level for a 1.33s SS cast time allows 3 SSs in a CS cycle and still having a tight CS cycle. Since 3 SS CS cycles are the most common, this is a nice benefit. I did reduce as much haste as I could to get a little more crit and more mastery and was able to reduce haste by about 2K, but that situation was a 550 DPS loss. This is not that much relatively to 160K DPS. Hence, after crit, mastery and haste are pretty even.

- AI is definitely used more often now as the focus dump, but AS is still used a significant period.

- Rune of Re-Origination is very interesting trinket. Due to its stats havok, I looked into replacing it; however, since it has a high amount of static agility, it is by far the second best trinket. The original setup had crit rating > haste rating. This meant that when this trinket procced that all haste and mastery went to crit. This caused several problems:
-- During the CA phase, SS and AI cast times were increased. This is actually not a bad thing since both were below the 1s GCD anyway with both RF and BL.
-- During the CA most of that extra crit is lost since the two main shots, AI and SS, are already crit capped due to CA. It does help our other abilities though.
-- When the trinket procs outside the CA phase and when otherwise unhasted, our SS cast time is increased to a little over 1.5s, which is not too bad if only need 2 SSs that cycle, but the odds are that you will need more SSs since the lost of haste also reduces focus regen.

I then tried the trinket with haste higher than crit to enable AI hard casts when the trinket procs. This was a DPS loss since the AIs and other shots have horrible crit rates and loss of PS damage.

Thanks for the feedback - very much appreciated. Some comments:

1) Good catch on the CA phase duration. I am pretty sure that I had changed that but when going back to a previous save I must have undone it. Both MM profiles are now updated to include the 20% CA phase.

2) Concerning the limits on the profile, for the most part I tried to specify that in the Fixed Settings area. In there, I chose to set Skull Banner and Stormlash Totem to zero. The reason was somewhat arbitrary considering that this is a max DPS case, but I left those off since those are specific buffs provided only by a single class or spec that not every 10-man raid will have included.

3) Concerning the Thunderforged gear, good point on its rarity and the very small odds that anyone will have all the possible Thunderforged gear. I did not consider it when quickly making this profile. However, what reasonable limits would your propose? Use no Thunderforge gear? Limit the number of Thunderforge items?

4) As I stated in the post, I am pretty busy at the moment and just quickly formed this profile to get the ball rolling with knowing that there should be room for improvement. Your note seemed to indicate some changes that could be made (beyond the buffs), but I was unclear on what exactly you were suggesting. Please clarify, and I will update the profile.

5) I agree 100% that when Rune of Reorgination procs that the rotation should ideally be changed (like we do for RFs), but FD already does a pretty good job of doing that automatically where from a quick assessment I do not see really anything I would change. My thoughts on the 3 possible situations:
- Haste is highest stat: This one is the easiest to model in FD since when the proc occurs, it is mostly modeled as increased haste rating, which is factored into shot cast times. Thus, FD automatically switches to using AI as the focus dump, and the chosen FD rotation should be pretty ideal. The problem with this case is that SS cast time is incrediblly low and the huge loss of crit makes each shots damage greatly reduced.
- Crit is the highest stat: When the trinket procs, we have no haste rating from gear. Thus, the base SS cast time is much longer at the base 1.58s with raid buffs and SF. FD should self adjust pretty well for the slower SS cast time and the lower focus regen and automatically adjust the shot selection accordingly. The situation is very troublesome in the CA phase where that extra crit is mostly wasted since SS and AI are already crit capped and where the loss of haste adversely affects AI cast time once RF wears off.
- Mastery is the highest stat: Since I currently do not see any value to such a build (unless for AoE), I will not dicusss it, but I believe that FD models it sufficiently.

The main problem that I have with this trinket is that we work hard to reforge our gear to get the ideal optimization of the stats. While it is true that you can change the stats some amount and see relatively little change in DPS, when you totally clear out 2 of the stats in favor of 1, the situation is unbalanced and definitely a DPS loss.

Simc "optimal_raid" provides all bufs, since 25-man progression groups will have that; hence it presumes 2 warriors and 2 shamans. I mostly wanted to mention that so that people know what simc numbers are based on when comparing with FD.

The profiles specify no random thunderforged. Heroic Ra-den only drops thunderforged loot, hence his is allowed. Allowing 1 piece of non-Ra-den loot would also not be useful since one cannot really plan for it.

I don't have recommendations for the profile yet; the clone of the quick profile I use in simc (which does not use the reorigination trinket) benefited from different settings, but it's both a different profile and that experimentation was before we found and fixed some bugs in both simc and FD. Simc was applying the steady focus buff to haste (and so focus regen and RPPM), and FD was not applying enough haste (and had old coefficient for capacitive primal). The two are much more in line now.

The Rune trinket looks most challenging for MM because of the issues you mentioned. I wonder whether whether it would be a win to have two weapons, with stats reforged so that one weapon ensures selecting haste during CA and the other ensures selecting crit outside of CA. I think simc can support weapon swapping, so we can see whether it's worthy of the effort.

Concerning the buffs, I think that I will keep it as I currently have it. This way SimC results can be more tuned to 25-man and this thread to 10-man. Plus, if any individual wants to see the results with the buffs, it is an easy modification for them to make.

Concerning the Thunderforged gear in the profile, I just checked and all 5 pieces are available off Ra-don according to MMO Champions.

Great idea on the weapon swapping possibility for rune.

Legendary meta gem and Bad Juju trinket. The following only have Thunderforged from Ra-den.

Max BM DPS: 176,664.74
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Max MM DPS: 175,782.08
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Max SV DPS: 172,919.63
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer


Thunderforged Max DPS:

Replacing the above heroics with heroic thunderforges yields the following:

Thunderforged BM DPS: 181,516.89
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Thunderforged MM DPS: 173,621.92 (this seems incorrect and is less than the regular heroic gear equivalents and should go up once the spreadsheet is updated for whatever item is messing things up)
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Thunderforged SV DPS: 178,599.23
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer


Edit: All of these should go up by over 1k dps per profile when the prismatic slot is added for the ranged Heroic Thunderforged Durumu's weapon. Right now, the spreadsheet does not include this slot on any heroic thunderforged items, and I assume this will eventually be corrected. When the spreadsheet is updated, I'll update the profile to include the +160agi gem in the weapon.