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Old 03/18/13, 2:38 PM   #46
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
Edit: All of these should go up by over 1k dps per profile when the prismatic slot is added for the ranged Heroic Thunderforged Durumu's weapon. Right now, the spreadsheet does not include this slot on any heroic thunderforged items, and I assume this will eventually be corrected. When the spreadsheet is updated, I'll update the profile to include the +160agi gem in the weapon.
I've fixed the weapons missing the prismatic sockets- I just didn't realize I'd forgotten to put them in until I saw your message (I'm basically just adding them manually to any weapon that's supposed to have one).

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Old 03/19/13, 8:53 AM   #47
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
I've fixed the weapons missing the prismatic sockets- I just didn't realize I'd forgotten to put them in until I saw your message (I'm basically just adding them manually to any weapon that's supposed to have one).
Thanks and cheers, Rivkah!

Updated values:

BM Thunderforged DPS: 183,135.57
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM Thunderforged DPS: 175,022.66 (something is still internally wrong with this one as it is a direct thunderforged upgrade. My guess is this should read 182k dps. If I get some time this week, I'll try tweaking this later to determine what is throwing the spreadsheet off.)
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV Thunderforged DPS: 180,358.49
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

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Old 03/19/13, 11:59 AM   #48
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
Heroic Thunderforged Rune of Re-Origination doesn't seem to exist on wowhead nor wowdb.

Also, for the BM profile, it sims Troll at ~100 DPS higher than Orc with that item (didn't reforge so Orc lack 1% expertise). Simply removing that trinket and Orc is ~1000 DPS higher than Troll. Is it because that profile has low mastery, because Troll can use berserking when that trinket proc, or something else?

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Old 03/19/13, 12:56 PM   #49
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
Heroic Thunderforged Rune of Re-Origination doesn't seem to exist on wowhead nor wowdb.

Also, for the BM profile, it sims Troll at ~100 DPS higher than Orc with that item (didn't reforge so Orc lack 1% expertise). Simply removing that trinket and Orc is ~1000 DPS higher than Troll. Is it because that profile has low mastery, because Troll can use berserking when that trinket proc, or something else?
If I remove the Heroic Thunderforged Rune, I get -17k dps. Was there something you were replacing it with? If you add 319 expertise to the profile and switch it to Orc, you will get 1k+ dps, but it's also a custom addition to the spreadsheet to make the Orc expertise-capped that is not represented via gear, food, or some in game mechanic.

Edit: After tinkering around with trinkets, I have found a new BM profile that increases dps by ~3k and MM slightly (though again, something is still broken in regards to these profiles in MM in the sim). SV drops by ~400dps, so I'll just include the BM profile.

Heroic BM: 177,625.06 (+624)
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Heroic Thunderforged BM: 186210.69
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

The main change here was in using heroic thunderforged Renataki's Soul Charm rather than the Rune of Reorigination. Everything else is just reforges to get rid of the excess expertise from the new trinket.

Last edited by Effinhunter : 03/19/13 at 1:28 PM. Reason: New BM top DPS mark

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Old 03/19/13, 6:38 PM   #50
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
I wrongly focused on Rune trinket. The difference between the 2 races is due to Troll having enough focus to get an extra MoC. Saving focus for MoC bring the 2 races close.

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Old 03/23/13, 4:42 PM   #51
exila
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Гордунни (EU)
in Simulated Shot Breakdown, Rune of Re-Origination always proc every 22 -30 sec, its newer work like that.
same for all versions (lfr,heroic).

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Old 03/27/13, 10:21 AM   #52
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
I've also noted that the uptime for Bad Juju and the Shado-Pan Assault trinket range from 14% to 35% in world of logs parses (the simulators tend to keep the uptime at 30%, which is rarer--though, I am analyzing parses from this week which look more promising). Your mileage will vary from fight-to-fight with any rppm trinket--especially if you have two of them. Example parses from last week and this week with both trinkets (and it seems like the patch this week might have implemented the rppm bad streak protections from looking at the consistency of ~30% ones):


Example parses of both trinkets from last week (some go as low as 14% and avg tends to be less than 20%):

Jin'rok the Breaker (Juju uptime: 19%, Valor uptime: 24.7%)
Details for Effinhunter - 19-03 20:31 - High Five - World of Logs

Council (Juju uptime: 16.9%, Valor uptime: 20%):
Details for Effinhunter - 20-03 20:28 - High Five - World of Logs

Tortos (Juju uptime: 29.3%, Valor uptime: 14.2%):
Details for Effinhunter - 20-03 20:28 - High Five - World of Logs

Megaera (Juju uptime: 23.7%, Valor uptime: 20%):
Details for Effinhunter - 20-03 20:28 - High Five - World of Logs

Ji'kun (Juju uptime: 16.3%, Valor uptime: 20.4%)
Details for Effinhunter - 20-03 20:28 - High Five - World of Logs

Durumu parse (Juju uptime: 30%, Valor uptime: 18.4%):
Details for Effinhunter - 21-03 20:59 - High Five - World of Logs

Primordius (Juju uptime: 18.3%, Valor uptime: 18.3%):
Details for Effinhunter - 21-03 20:59 - High Five - World of Logs

Dark Animus (Juju uptime: 21.9%, Valor uptime: 20.7%):
Details for Effinhunter - 21-03 20:59 - High Five - World of Logs

Iron Qon (Juju uptime 25.6%:, Valor uptime: 19.7%):
Details for Effinhunter - 25-03 21:11 - High Five - World of Logs


This week (week starting 3/26/2013, more rppms closer to 30% and one at 35%):

Jin'Rok the Breaker (Juju uptime: 29.2%, Valor uptime: 19.4%)
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

Horridon (Juju uptime: 29.4%, Valor uptime: 16.9%):
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

Council (Juju uptime: 19%, Valor uptime: 16.6%):
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

Tortos (Juju uptime: 30.1%, Valor uptime: 18.1%):
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

Megaera (Juju uptime: 27.4%, Valor uptime: 18.3%):
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

Ji'kun (Juju uptime: 21.5%, Valor uptime: 35.9%):
Details for Effinhunter - 26-03 20:00 - High Five - World of Logs

We'll see how the uptimes look next week and as the rest of the week progresses (I'll likely just update this post instead of spreading out parses).


P.S. Regarding Thunderforged. The drop rate for Thunderforged seems to be holding steady at 1% per person in the raid (10% drop rate for 10 mans (verified with alt runs) and 25% for 25 mans). I'm unsure if coins have a higher chance of getting Thunderforged in 25 mans as well (e.g. does it multiply 10% or 25% against the possible loot table or something else entirely?) The key benefit of 25 man is that you are more likely to have Thunderforged that goes to a person who can use it and not sharding it (e.g., in a 10 man without a hunter or enh shaman, agi mail will be sharded regardless of if it is BiS for a class because the armor type is unrepresented), but 10 man should still be able to get full BiS Thunderforged. They are just more likely to shard gear for class/armor types and consequently take longer to get everyone Thunderforged.

Additionally, unlike the last tier, it is far more likely that everyone will be able to fully upgrade all of their gear by next raid content patch. In 5.3, valor upgrades are only going to cost 500 valor badges for fully upgrading a single piece of gear (versus 1500 badges which was extremely prohibitive in 5.1). Consequently, most raiders who clear all content in 5.3 should have a very good chance to get not only BiS Thunderforged but also fully upgraded

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Old 03/27/13, 11:03 AM   #53
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
Also, the dps values of the current BiS profiles have changed in the spreadsheet. These are the updated profile values (with links to settings):

BM (Heroic with only Thunderforged Ra-Den): 182,827.30 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

BM (Heroic Thunderforged): 196,969.25 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM (Heroic with only Thunderforged Ra-Den): 179,598.41 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM (Heroic Thunderforged): 187,523.97 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV (Heroic with only Thunderforged Ra-Den): 177,186.80 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV (Heroic Thunderforged): 188,586.98 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Edit: I'm pretty sure there's a better profile for SV with only thunderforged from Ra-Den, but I haven't spent as much time tweaking it. When I plugged in the simcraft optimal gear, it was lower in Zeherah's Analyzer. There are several changes since last template--mostly maximizing haste to allow for Rune of Origination to be optimized. Belts, helms, gems, and various other things have been changed to favor haste. Still tweaking the profiles. Trying to see if I can push BM to 200k.

Last edited by Effinhunter : 03/27/13 at 1:13 PM. Reason: Updated for higher dps tweaks

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Old 03/28/13, 8:07 AM   #54
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
198 695.76 DPS for HC+TF BM:

Race: Orc
Don't save focus for MoC: uncheck
Rotation:

Serpent Sting
Bestial Wrath
A Murder of Crows
Kill Shot
Kill Command
Rapid Fire
Dire Beast
Glaive Toss
Readiness
Stampede
Arcane Shot
Explosive Trap
Focus Fire
Cobra Shot

Gear:
- Voice of the Quilen HC+TF (+80 agi for -80 stamina) hit->crit
- Chest: exp->crit
- Ring 1: hit->crit
- Gloves: remove reforge

Last edited by NoGoal : 03/28/13 at 8:34 AM.

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Old 03/28/13, 12:23 PM   #55
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
Well, I guess one consequence of an excess of the hit and expertise ratings on our gear would be that having 1% extra expertise would eventually catch up to trolls. Orc is now back on top for BM. Nice catch, NoGoal.

Edit: After a lot of tweaking, I was able to get troll back on top with the Voice of the Quillen and a switch to the Beady-Eye Bracers (Crit) and some various reforging.

Orc (NoGoals's template but with different shot rotation to up BM dps):

BM (Heroic Thunderforged): : 199,010.80 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM (Heroic Thunderforged): 191,844.66 dps (same armor profile as the troll one)
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV (Heroic Thunderforged): 190,159.53 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer


Troll (Alternate gear template with Voice and Beady-eye Bracer (crit) with reforging changes):

BM (Heroic Thunderforged): 199,279.52 dps (tweaked BM rotation)
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM (Heroic Thunderforged): 194,213.16 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV (Heroic Thunderforged): 191,393.90 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Last edited by Effinhunter : 03/29/13 at 1:32 PM. Reason: Updating BM, MM, and SV dps

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Old 04/07/13, 1:47 AM   #56
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
Rivkah updated the proc rate for the Rune of Reorigination, and it is no longer anywhere near BiS. I've updated the BiS profiles accordingly:

BM Thunderforged Heroic BiS: 195,130.80 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

MM Thunderforged Heroic BiS: 188,916.41 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

SV Thunderforged Heroic BiS: 187,948.89 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Current gear list for all profiles:

Head: HTF Gaze of Gara'jal
Neck: HTF Necklace of the Terra-Cotta Archer
Shoulders: H Saurok Stalkers Shoulders
Back: HTF Grey Wind Mistcloak
Chest: H Saurok Stalkers Tunic
Bracers: HTF Beady Eye Bracers (Crit)
Gloves: H Saurok Stalkers Gloves
Belt: HTF Jingling Fetishgirdle
Pants: H Saurok Stalkers Legguards
Boots: HTF Treads of the Sanguine Volley
Ring 1: HTF Ra-den's Swift Seal
Ring 2: HTF Gore-Soaked Gear
Trinket 1: HTF Bad Juju
Trinket 2: HTF Renataki's
Ranged: HTF Voice of the Quillen

BM shot priority: SS, KS, BW, KC, GT, AMoC, DB, Stampede, RF, Readiness, AS, FF, ET, CS
MM shot priority: Defaults
SV shot priority: Defaults

We'll see where we go from here.

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Old 04/14/13, 2:50 AM   #57
Effinhunter
Von Kaiser
 
Effinhunter's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Area 52
So, I've modeled some 5.3 PTR builds and tried several different stat priority profiles, as well as the new Blink Strike. Here were the results.

5.3 PTR BM HTF

220,236.71 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Blink Strike
ilvl 600 cloak
Beady-eye Bracers (Haste) instead of (Crit)
Gem changes to agi/haste instead of agi/crit
Trinket reforges to haste instead of crit

5.3 PTR SV HTF

209,967.26 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

AMoC (BS is NOT preferred here and is a DPS loss)
ilvl 600 cloak
Shot priority change: BA > AMoC > KS > GT > RF > DB > ES > Ready > Stamp > MS > AS > CS
Enable "Only cast Multi-Shot when Serpent Sting expires"
Disable "Wait Shots: Kill Shot"
Target reforging to roughly equal crit and haste, but the simulator is incredibly fickle in tweaking slightly. Aiming for significantly higher haste than crit was a significant dps loss in SV profiles.


5.3 PTR MM HTF

206,633.67 dps
Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

AMoC (BS is NOT preferred here and is a DPS loss)
ilvl 600 cloak
Beady-eye Bracers (Haste) instead of (Crit)
Gem changes to agi/haste instead of agi/crit
Trinket reforges to haste instead of crit
Check "Disable Arcane Shot while Careful Aim is active"

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Old 04/21/13, 3:16 AM   #58
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
So, I've modeled some 5.3 PTR builds ... Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer
It's worth noting that the Necklace of the Terra-Cotta Archer (and in other profiles, [Abandoned Spaulders of Arrowflight]) are world drops, and don't have heroic versions. I just updated the simc T15H profiles to use TF gear (though not the 5.3
Tigerfang Wrap), prioritized for haste>crit>mastery:
Click Here ← Click Here
head=saurok_stalkers_headguard,id=96628,stats=3697armor_1519agi_2639sta_1053hit_1053h aste,gems=capacitive_primal_80agi_160haste_180crit,reforge=hit_crit
neck=quadrahead_brooch,id=96815,stats=957agi_1555sta_651hit_651mastery,gems=160agi,re forge=hit_haste
shoulders=saurok_stalkers_spaulders,id=96630,stats=3413armor_1147agi_1960sta_706hit_8 42crit,gems=160agi_160agi,enchant=200agi_100crit,reforge=hit_haste
back=grey_wind_mistcloak,id=95015,stats=1307armor_957agi_1555sta_617crit_672haste,gem s=160agi,enchant=180crit
chest=saurok_stalkers_tunic,id=96626,stats=4551armor_1519agi_2639sta_1070exp_1023mast ery,gems=160agi_80agi_160haste_80agi_160hit_180agi,enchant=80all,reforge=mastery_hast e
wrists=beadyeye_bracers,id=96797,stats=2025armor_957agi_1555sta_1024haste,gems=80agi_ 160haste_60agi,enchant=500agi
hands=synapsestring_handguards,id=96867,stats=2893armor_1222agi_2073sta_857crit_825ha ste,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170exp
waist=links_of_the_disintegrator,id=96846,stats=2604armor_1222agi_2073sta_895crit_751 haste,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi
legs=saurok_stalkers_legguards,id=96629,stats=3982armor_1599agi_2639sta_1103haste_107 0mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_80agi_160hit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit,reforge=maste ry_crit
feet=treads_of_the_sanguine_volley,id=95009,stats=3183armor_1222agi_2073sta_716crit_9 02mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_80agi_160hit_120agi,enchant=140agi,reforge=mastery_hast e
finger1=radens_swift_seal,id=95021,stats=957agi_1555sta_706hit_576haste,gems=160agi,r eforge=hit_crit
finger2=goresoaked_gear,id=96885,stats=957agi_1555sta_677crit_590haste,gems=160agi
trinket1=renatakis_soul_charm,id=96741,stats=1752exp,reforge=exp_haste
trinket2=bad_juju,id=96781,stats=1752mastery,reforge=mastery_haste
main_hand=voice_of_the_quilen,id=96897,stats=1860agi_2710sta_1169hit_1219haste,weapon =gun_3speed_14270min_26503max,gems=320agi_320agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scop e_of_doom,reforge=hit_crit

Without the Terra-Cotta necklace, it's difficult to reforge out of enough hit without switching to items with less agility. So I look forward to seeing better gearsets.

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Old 04/21/13, 5:08 AM   #59
NoGoal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Terenas (EU)
You can get heroic versions of trash drops from the black market auction house.

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Old 04/21/13, 2:31 PM   #60
Lokrick
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
You can get heroic versions of trash drops from the black market auction house.
I've heard that theory, but not that it provides 541-level versions. In any case, is there any evidence that it shows up there? I did a search on the Undermine Journal, and they don't show it having ever appeared on any BMAH. By comparison, [Talisman of Living Poison] appears multiple times, though rarely more than once per server. Given the rarity and inability to influence the availability, I recommend ignoring BMAH as significant source of gear, and therefor leaving it out of example profile planning.

EDIT: The shoulders is a shared boss drop and so comes in all the heroic and thunderforged variants. The Terracotta necklace however is a zone drop and appears to only appear as LFR and normal mode. It does however appear in regular thunderforged version.

Last edited by Lokrick : 04/22/13 at 1:29 AM.

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