Shot Rotation Illustrated - Page 11

alienangel · 01/11/08, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Gearknight

There's nothing in there to suggest that an exploit has to be published before it becomes punishable. I'm pretty sure Blizzard has every right they need to suspend people who are intentionally firing instant-cast aimed shots and/or 2 multi shots within less than 9 seconds to eachother. These things are clearly bugs, and their use constitutes gaining a competitive advantage over other players.

Tread carefully.

This is true, but unless it involves killing a raid boss in significantly easier fashion than normal, or majorly hurting other players, or some sort of duping, do they have a history of taking account action for things that are technically "exploits"? Like having Hex Shrunken Head not share a cooldown with other trinkets like Icon of the Silver Crescent was pretty obviously a bug, everyone who had both merrily used them, and I doubt anyone is in trouble over it.

Never mind that they retroactively declared that for the past three years we've all been exploiting FD to drop combat during boss fights, as it was apparently a bug fix and not a mechanic change when they removed that.

Of course, launching an instant aimed, auto and two multis in a 3v3 arena is probably easily classified as "majorly hurting other players".

Kamaa · 01/11/08, 6:17 PM

Not that my guess is better than anybody elses, but my guess is that using this in PVE will not endanger your account. Using this to get a 3000 rating on your arena team.... might get you in trouble.

Indora · 01/11/08, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Koroshiya

My build and gear can be found on my armory link.

Oh, sorry, I forgot this function.

I'm looking for the new perfect weaponspeed, depending on lag and haste-effects...
The "perfekt" speed should create a constant

auto-steady-steady-auto-
auto-steady

rotation.

To find the perfect weaponspeed we have to know the length of the interval in which we can use the macro to create an additional steadyshot and autoshot.
The length of this Interval is the auto-shot-casttime.
Cheeky said something about affected by haste... Can anyone confirm that?
With no haste, the window we have to use the macro for an additional steady+autoshot should be
from
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag - 0.5sek(hasted?)
to
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag

An example with 200 ms lag and 2.1 weaponspeed:
0.0 auto start
0.2 steady start
- 1.4, time for a second steady
1.7 GCD finished
1.7 second steady start
- 1.9, interval over
(from here on I'm not sure about any of the numbers)
1.9 second steady canceld, but shot
2.1 auto finished (2.1[1.9 + lag] or 2.4[1.9+0.5] or 2.1[1.7+0.5 < 2.1]? *confused*)
2.3 second auto finished (or 2.1 + casttime instead of 2.1 + lag?)

How would this rotation go on?
And what would happen if IAotH proccs.. As far as I could see from my own tests, a 1.7 or 1.8 weapon speed is too fast to profit from the new macro.

Koroshiya · 01/11/08, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by Indora

Oh, sorry, I forgot this function.

I'm looking for the new perfect weaponspeed, depending on lag and haste-effects...
The "perfekt" speed should create a constant

auto-steady-steady-auto-
auto-steady

rotation.

To find the perfect weaponspeed we have to know the length of the interval in which we can use the macro to create an additional steadyshot and autoshot.
The length of this Interval is the auto-shot-casttime.
Cheeky said something about affected by haste... Can anyone confirm that?
With no haste, the window we have to use the macro for an additional steady+autoshot should be
from
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag - 0.5sek(hasted?)
to
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag

An example with 200 ms lag and 2.1 weaponspeed:
0.0 auto start
0.2 steady start
- 1.4, time for a second steady
1.7 GCD finished
1.7 second steady start
- 1.9, interval over
(from here on I'm not sure about any of the numbers)
1.9 second steady canceld, but shot
2.1 auto finished (2.1[1.9 + lag] or 2.4[1.9+0.5] or 2.1[1.7+0.5 < 2.1]? *confused*)
2.3 second auto finished (or 2.1 + casttime instead of 2.1 + lag?)

How would this rotation go on?
And what would happen if IAotH proccs.. As far as I could see from my own tests, a 1.7 or 1.8 weapon speed is too fast to profit from the new macro.

What are my logs missing to help you find the answer to your question? Varying weapon speed weapons?

Indora · 01/11/08, 6:51 PM

I'm not sure, until now I have no idea how to test the perfect speed. ^^
But your lag would be an important information.

(And thank you for your work!)

Although... As you just mentioned it, various weaponspeeds should be useful.

Koroshiya · 01/11/08, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by Indora

I'm not sure, until now I have no idea how to test the perfect speed. ^^
But your lag would be an important information.

(And thank you for your work!)

Although... As you just mentioned it, various weaponspeeds should be useful.

My latency bounced between 175 - 225ms. I honestly didn't watch closely enough to keep track of the avg, I just glanced up every so often.

I still have my Sunfury Bow but it has the same speed.

Bullshot · 01/11/08, 7:42 PM

I can't get my head around this at the moment, but am I to understand that for pure PvE purposes with a Survival build, using this new macro will result in higher DPS than the standard 1:1.5 rotation done manually?

QuiggyB · 01/11/08, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Indora

What about

/cast !Auto shot
/cast Steady Shot
/cast Steady Shot

As Marksman / Survival with 3.0 Weapons?

Your first Test seems to create a rotation like:
auto-steady-steady-
auto-steady-

What is your weaponspeed?

Im pretty sure the last /cast line is just ignored any way. Try changing it to an arcane shot and I bet you will never see it go off. At any rate the following macro produces the same resuults

/cast !auto shot
/cast steady shot

QuiggyB · 01/11/08, 8:50 PM

Question - If the observed behavior is that auto shots now fire when they are supposed to, no specials will fire faster than the GCD, and steady shot can be fired right with the GCD - why wouldnt the best rotation for all specs (considering mana) be auto shot with steady spam. Its a simple macro that works perfectly and requires no timing. Sure your arcane or multi might produce a little more dmg but its not significantly more. you are no longer weaving in something between auto shots behind the steady. You are firing a special every GCD and making a choice based on a priority.

Infact something like this should work but in my brief testing it seems to produce a little less than the auto/steady spam:

/cast !auto shot
/castrandom multi-shot, arcane shot, steady shot

Indora · 01/11/08, 9:06 PM

Autoshot can still be delayed.

Even with a !Auto Shot-makro.
If you start your macro after roughly half of the Auto Shot is already cast, you will delay your AS.
But I'm not sure whether the following Auto comes *autospeed* seconds after the theoretical or after the practical AS...
(Theoretical = The point the AS should have come out,
Practical = The point the AS realy came out)

Threepi · 01/11/08, 9:30 PM

Steady shot will still delay Auto shot if it's clicked more than .5 seconds before Auto shot is supposed to go off. The auto shot cast time hasn't been removed, rather any shot attempted during that time is just held off until after auto shot goes off.

Elfalora · 01/12/08, 12:35 AM

Last night I tried the !Auto Shot Steady macro and observed DPS increase, just like everyone else. However, I noticed that some Steady Shot has a very shot cast time, which is similar to what is reported with "instant" Aimed Shot, as well as multiple Autos showing in combatlog.

While I want Steady unlinking from Auto, this doesn't look anything like I envision how it would be implemented. So, I did some test tonight. Instead of spamming the Steady Macro, I timed it similarly to the Aimed/Multi report.

With a paperdoll 2.13 speed,

1/11 19:49:58.640  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1419.
1/11 19:50:00.000  Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 607.
1/11 19:50:00.796  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 702.

This part looks normal.

1/11 19:50:01.859  Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 604.
1/11 19:50:03.437  Your Steady Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1420.
1/11 19:50:04.031  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 570.
1/11 19:50:04.140  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1386.
1/11 19:50:06.671  Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 602.
1/11 19:50:07.234  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 573.
1/11 19:50:07.390  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 565.
1/11 19:50:09.484  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 603.
1/11 19:50:10.609  Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 534.
1/11 19:50:12.078  Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 591.
1/11 19:50:12.593  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1430.
1/11 19:50:12.859  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 598.

The number of Steady is less than optimal since I was timing it. However, within a 12 sec period, I had 7 Auto Shots.

My timing is not quite what I want it to be. Anyone else wants to test this?

Krakag · 01/12/08, 12:36 AM

We are now back to normal again, with clipping and no double multi/aimed, and no instant aimed and all that crap. Didn't last long once it became known :P

Bullshot · 01/12/08, 1:04 AM

Originally Posted by Krakag

We are now back to normal again, with clipping and no double multi/aimed, and no instant aimed and all that crap. Didn't last long once it became known :P

Confirmed. Rolling restarts were carried out this morning on all EU realms and this change has been reverted.

Threepi · 01/12/08, 1:23 AM

To what degree has it been changed? I have to believe that the change to how the .5 second autoshot cast time was intentional, while the insta-Aimed and the crazy steady-auto rotations were an unintended side effect. Are we just back to the same old delaying Auto Shot business?

Elfalora · 01/12/08, 1:42 AM

Originally Posted by Threepi

I have to believe that the change to how the .5 second autoshot cast time was intentional

Actually, from the log I posted above, I suspect that it is not the case here. I think what happened was that you have a random chance to hit the double Auto Shot bug and the chance is close to giving back what you'd have lost because of clipping. Because the number sounds right, it is easy to believe, especially after we have just lobbied for such a change, even though the logs didn't seem right.

If my theory is correct, no, we can't have it back. It is as exploitable.

mise · 01/12/08, 6:01 AM

Too bad this didn't last. This would have been my shot rotation.

Botanica1.avi - FileFront.com

(Don't stream it, 1920x1200 means it doesn't stream well. Only 15 megs)

--Mise

Munu · 01/12/08, 7:22 AM

nvm

didnt get to see this beauty it seems

Soulcow · 01/12/08, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by Threepi

To what degree has it been changed? I have to believe that the change to how the .5 second autoshot cast time was intentional, while the insta-Aimed and the crazy steady-auto rotations were an unintended side effect. Are we just back to the same old delaying Auto Shot business?

If it was intented you would be able to get the same effects without a macro. Never will Blizzard force players to use a stupid macro to be able to do the best dps.

I'm glad it got hotfixed, this was an unneccerarilly huge buff that imbalanced pvp and pve.

QuiggyB · 01/12/08, 12:32 PM

Post rollbacks /castsequence is still screwed up. And the other macros dont work any more.

alienangel · 01/12/08, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by QuiggyB

Post rollbacks /castsequence is still screwed up.

Do elaborate please

!

Do you mean we can still get the improved threading on auto/steady, but just can't get silly stuff like instant aimed double multi combos?

Theorime · 01/12/08, 2:15 PM

So do we go back to our old macros now? I saved mine anticipating the fix and it seemed to be working fine.... I'll miss this bug

Sore82 · 01/12/08, 2:31 PM

Here is what I did on Dr. Boom about 1hr ago:

1/12 10:12:10.838 Your Steady Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1428.
1/12 10:12:11.447 You gain 44 Mana from Thrill of the Hunt.
1/12 10:12:11.447 Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 644.
1/12 10:12:11.963 You fail to perform Steady Shot: Not yet recovered.
1/12 10:12:12.666 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 644.
1/12 10:12:14.119 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 654.
1/12 10:12:14.479 Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 633.
1/12 10:12:15.072 You fail to perform Steady Shot: Another action is in progress.
1/12 10:12:15.838 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 564.
1/12 10:12:17.588 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 570.
1/12 10:12:18.119 Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1534.
1/12 10:12:19.416 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 623.
1/12 10:12:21.057 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 580.
1/12 10:12:21.447 Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 645.
1/12 10:12:22.151 You fail to perform Steady Shot: Not yet recovered.
1/12 10:12:22.697 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 582.
1/12 10:12:24.260 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 595.
1/12 10:12:24.791 Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1612.
1/12 10:12:26.291 Your Steady Shot hits Dr. Boom for 556.
1/12 10:12:27.588 Your Steady Shot crits Dr. Boom for 1426.
1/12 10:12:28.151 Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 676.

using:

/cast !Auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady shot

My whole combat log from start to finish is posted here:
WoW Forums -> Clipping = More DPS?

zork · 01/12/08, 2:56 PM

They fixed the bug, do not use...

/cast !Auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady shot

...anymore! The Auto shot would only be fired when Steady shot was just fired, but the global cooldown to start the next one is not ready yet.

You will get very low dps with this now.

Use...

/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/castsequence !Auto shot, Steady shot

...instead.

If you get a very slow weapon (3.1 or higher) you can use

/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/castsequence !Auto shot, Steady shot, !Auto shot, Steady shot, !Auto shot, Steady shot, Arcane Shot

But there is a problem. Since Auto shot will be fired when no cast is happening it can happen that you will get one auto just before the arcane. This is a problem since the rotation will halt till the next autoshot now.

Thus: Including Arcane shot into rotations can mean a loss in dps if the damage.

You can see it on this graphic for a BM hunter:
BM macro with 2.7spd bow

I tried it with my 2.7 bow with 1.96 speed. Normally there should be enough room to do one steady and arcane while auto shot is on cooldown, but something seems to slow things down and the Auto Shot timer is ready before I can fire my Arcane shot. Hmm.

When will the global cooldown from steady shot start? When it fires? This would explain it.

Threepi · 01/12/08, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by Soulcow

If it was intented you would be able to get the same effects without a macro. Never will Blizzard force players to use a stupid macro to be able to do the best dps.

I'm glad it got hotfixed, this was an unneccerarilly huge buff that imbalanced pvp and pve.

Check live servers. The change to Auto Shot is still there, but the ability to get double shots is not.

Specials are not "unlinked" from Auto Shot. Rather than specials being able to delay Auto Shot, Auto Shot now delays specials.

Try it for yourselves. Start Auto Shooting. When the cast bar gets to .5 seconds hit a special, any special. It'll be held off until Auto Shot completes. Anything before .5 seconds will go off normally (Steady Shot included, and it'll still delay your Auto Shot).

For BM hunters this will probably be a pretty reasonable change. If you're running a simple Steady-Auto rotation, you now have a .5 second window to hit Steady Shot for it to be timed perfectly.

MM and SV hunters won't have it so well. Provided perfect timing, a 1:1.5 rotation stays the same. However, an Arcane Shot performed at .4 seconds will now be held off until Auto Shot completes, pushing back the GCD with it, throwing the next Steady Shot off. So instead of delaying Auto Shot by .1 seconds, you've just delayed Arcane Shot (and the GCD) by .5 seconds.

edit- Further testing is showing me that the GCD is trigger when the shot was clicked, not when the shot eventually goes off.