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Old 01/11/08, 12:44 PM   #241
drabbles
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Greymane
I just posted this on my guilds forum after testing this morning.

K been testing for an hour or so. Here's the results!

***disclaimer***
1. I am survival not BM
2. Only buff I had on was Aspect of the Viper
3. Only debuff on Dr.boom (test subject hehe) was Expose Weaknes when it proc'd due to a crit
4. I used the warden arrows not the mysterious ones from kara cuz they are cheaper
5. I tried to use roughly 200 shots per test attempt of each macro
6. Kill command was not used in macros nor was pet used in fighting
7. SS=# of Steady Shots fired, AS=# of Auto Shots fired, Arc=# of Arcane shots fired (i also list crit % for that shot by it after the # of shots)
8. My latency 150-180 Framerate 45-50
9. 1st macro used is the new one, 2nd is the 1:1.5 macro commonly used by Surv/MM spec (and what i use normally), 3rd macro used is the common 1:1 macro used by most BM hunters

MY STATS: Shot speed--2.52 Tooltip dps--281.9 RAP--1749 crit--32.07%

--------------------------------1st test--------------------------------------------

First Macro used: /cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

RESULTS: test #1 DPS - 707
SS - 125 28.8%crit
AS - 83 25.3%crit

test #2 DPS - 765.4
SS - 115 39.1%crit
AS - 76 27.6%crit

test #3 DPS - 792.8
SS - 114 35.7%crit
AS - 79 33.4%crit


2nd Macro used: /castsequence reset=5 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane
Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


RESULTS: test #1 DPS - 636.9
SS - 79 31.7%crit
AS - 79 30.6%crit
Arc - 28 39.3%crit

test #2 DPS - 615.1
SS - 84 35.7%crit
AS - 87 24.1%crit
Arc - 28 39.3%crit

test #3 DPS - 662
SS - 83 37.3%crit
AS - 89 32.6%crit
Arc - 28 35.7%crit


3rd Macro used: /#showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

RESULTS: test #1 DPS - 536.8
SS - 110 39.5%crit
AS - 110 23.6%crit

test #2 DPS - 527.7
SS - 104 28.8%crit
AS - 103 34.0%crit

didnt do a third test here cuz it was obvious lol



OK what if anything can we gather from this lol. Throw out different specs (BM, Surv, MM, for a moment. Both the new and the old macros should be a 1:1 macro meaning that for every Auto Shot you would fire a Steady Shot. On the new macro for some reason it is not 1:1 though. Look at the results from the 1st/new macro. I fired 40-50% more Steady Shots than Auto Shots and for the life of me I can't figure out how or why it does that. It actually seems to double fire shots on occasion. Personally I feel this is a glitch or bug that will soon be nerfed by Blizz.

BUT UNTIL IT IS WELCOME TO THE NEWER WORLD OF HUNTER DPS!

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Old 01/11/08, 1:35 PM   #242
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
alienangel's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by Luciellena View Post

I use a Logitech MX-Revolution mouse with the macro bound to mouse wheel which can be unlocked and put into a free spin. I don't know just how many times it sends the signal to fire but I feel it is safe to say that it is more than 4.

I will try putting the macro onto a key on my keyboard and see if that changes anything.
I thought that about my mousewheel too (intellipoint optical), but it wasn't so - I needed a spammable keyboard button to get the double auto behaviour reproduced.

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Old 01/11/08, 1:52 PM   #243
Xurr
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Hyjal
Well, I don't think this will be around much longer. There is some tard reporting it on the bug report forums. Even though this bug is repeatable I do think the devs are having a hard time tracking down the problem.

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Old 01/11/08, 2:04 PM   #244
wyldbill
Piston Honda
 
wyldbill's Avatar
 
Orc Hunter
 
Area 52
I haven't seen this put forward as a theory yet, but are we able to determine if that "instant aimed shot" anomaly is the result of a massive haste buff being applied during the cast of auto shot? No buff is being reported to the client, ditto the combat log, but it seems that's the only way an aimed shot could ever be produced as quickly as was shown in the video.

So: the request to begin a cast of aimed shot can arrive during the cast for auto and, as a result, gain the benefit of an unreported haste increase which was originally added (undocumented) in order to help the hunter class avoid clipping its auto (white damage) attacks while also making use of special (yellow) attacks.

Please accept my deepest apologies for that sentence; it's the best I could do.

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Old 01/11/08, 3:06 PM   #245
Koroshiya
Von Kaiser
 
Koroshiya's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Ysondre
Conditions
Aspect of the Viper
Netherscale Ammo Pouch
Accurate Slugs (13dps)
No Trinket Use
Pet By My Side
No Hunter's Mark

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Macro #1
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Combat Log #1
Test #1
Test #2
Test #3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Macro #2
[code]
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()


Combat Log #2
Test #1
Test #2
Test #3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Macro #3
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence reset=5 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Combat Log #3
Test #1
Test #2
Test #3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions
1. Is this sort of thing helpful?
2. Would you like to see different conditions with the same test macros?
3. Would you like to see the same conditions with a different macro?
4. Would you like to see a specific macro used in a different shot rotation?
5. I could think of tons of ways to test this but is there anything in particular anyone wants tested while I am in the testing mood?

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Old 01/11/08, 3:13 PM   #246
Indora
Von Kaiser
 
Indora's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Azshara (EU)
Originally Posted by Koroshiya
5. I could think of tons of ways to test this but is there anything in particular anyone wants tested while I am in the testing mood?
What about

/cast !Auto shot
/cast Steady Shot
/cast Steady Shot

As Marksman / Survival with 3.0 Weapons?


Your first Test seems to create a rotation like:
auto-steady-steady-
auto-steady-

What is your weaponspeed?

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Old 01/11/08, 3:16 PM   #247
Sympa
Piston Honda
 
Sympa's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Terokkar
Blizzard defines an exploit as:

Doing something that they did not expect a player to be able to do. It is not an exploit until it comes to blizz's attention and they have announced it is an exploit.

So, enjoy it while it lasts but keep an eye out for a blue post or you're character might disappear.


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Old 01/11/08, 3:27 PM   #248
Koroshiya
Von Kaiser
 
Koroshiya's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Indora View Post
What about

/cast !Auto shot
/cast Steady Shot
/cast Steady Shot

As Marksman / Survival with 3.0 Weapons?


Your first Test seems to create a rotation like:
auto-steady-steady-
auto-steady-

What is your weaponspeed?
I have no intention to change my talent build to test. If someone wishes to do so more power to them, but so far as now I can't foresee this really changing the powerhouse build for raiding. Maybe I am wrong though, but I'd rather someone else prove it.

As for my what is produced by my first test, I don't make any assumptions. The data is there to diagnose.

My build and gear can be found on my armory link.

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Old 01/11/08, 4:42 PM   #249
Gearknight
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by Sympa View Post
Blizzard defines an exploit as:

Doing something that they did not expect a player to be able to do. It is not an exploit until it comes to blizz's attention and they have announced it is an exploit.

So, enjoy it while it lasts but keep an eye out for a blue post or you're character might disappear.
Originally Posted by Terms of Use
Certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

1. Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

There's nothing in there to suggest that an exploit has to be published before it becomes punishable. I'm pretty sure Blizzard has every right they need to suspend people who are intentionally firing instant-cast aimed shots and/or 2 multi shots within less than 9 seconds to eachother. These things are clearly bugs, and their use constitutes gaining a competitive advantage over other players.

Tread carefully.

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Old 01/11/08, 4:53 PM   #250
Wunlastri
Piston Honda
 
Wunlastri's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Maelstrom
Might these help?
Shadowhunter's Treads - Items - World of Warcraft

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Old 01/11/08, 5:13 PM   #251
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
alienangel's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by Gearknight View Post
There's nothing in there to suggest that an exploit has to be published before it becomes punishable. I'm pretty sure Blizzard has every right they need to suspend people who are intentionally firing instant-cast aimed shots and/or 2 multi shots within less than 9 seconds to eachother. These things are clearly bugs, and their use constitutes gaining a competitive advantage over other players.

Tread carefully.
This is true, but unless it involves killing a raid boss in significantly easier fashion than normal, or majorly hurting other players, or some sort of duping, do they have a history of taking account action for things that are technically "exploits"? Like having Hex Shrunken Head not share a cooldown with other trinkets like Icon of the Silver Crescent was pretty obviously a bug, everyone who had both merrily used them, and I doubt anyone is in trouble over it.

Never mind that they retroactively declared that for the past three years we've all been exploiting FD to drop combat during boss fights, as it was apparently a bug fix and not a mechanic change when they removed that.

Of course, launching an instant aimed, auto and two multis in a 3v3 arena is probably easily classified as "majorly hurting other players".

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Old 01/11/08, 5:17 PM   #252
Kamaa
Piston Honda
 
Kamaa's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Greymane
Not that my guess is better than anybody elses, but my guess is that using this in PVE will not endanger your account. Using this to get a 3000 rating on your arena team.... might get you in trouble.

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Old 01/11/08, 5:34 PM   #253
Indora
Von Kaiser
 
Indora's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Azshara (EU)
Originally Posted by Koroshiya View Post
My build and gear can be found on my armory link.
Oh, sorry, I forgot this function.

I'm looking for the new perfect weaponspeed, depending on lag and haste-effects...
The "perfekt" speed should create a constant

auto-steady-steady-auto-
auto-steady

rotation.

To find the perfect weaponspeed we have to know the length of the interval in which we can use the macro to create an additional steadyshot and autoshot.
The length of this Interval is the auto-shot-casttime.
Cheeky said something about affected by haste... Can anyone confirm that?
With no haste, the window we have to use the macro for an additional steady+autoshot should be
from
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag - 0.5sek(hasted?)
to
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag

An example with 200 ms lag and 2.1 weaponspeed:
0.0 auto start
0.2 steady start
- 1.4, time for a second steady
1.7 GCD finished
1.7 second steady start
- 1.9, interval over
(from here on I'm not sure about any of the numbers)
1.9 second steady canceld, but shot
2.1 auto finished (2.1[1.9 + lag] or 2.4[1.9+0.5] or 2.1[1.7+0.5 < 2.1]? *confused*)
2.3 second auto finished (or 2.1 + casttime instead of 2.1 + lag?)


How would this rotation go on?
And what would happen if IAotH proccs.. As far as I could see from my own tests, a 1.7 or 1.8 weapon speed is too fast to profit from the new macro.

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Old 01/11/08, 5:42 PM   #254
Koroshiya
Von Kaiser
 
Koroshiya's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Indora View Post
Oh, sorry, I forgot this function.

I'm looking for the new perfect weaponspeed, depending on lag and haste-effects...
The "perfekt" speed should create a constant

auto-steady-steady-auto-
auto-steady

rotation.

To find the perfect weaponspeed we have to know the length of the interval in which we can use the macro to create an additional steadyshot and autoshot.
The length of this Interval is the auto-shot-casttime.
Cheeky said something about affected by haste... Can anyone confirm that?
With no haste, the window we have to use the macro for an additional steady+autoshot should be
from
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag - 0.5sek(hasted?)
to
weaponspeed(hasted) - lag

An example with 200 ms lag and 2.1 weaponspeed:
0.0 auto start
0.2 steady start
- 1.4, time for a second steady
1.7 GCD finished
1.7 second steady start
- 1.9, interval over
(from here on I'm not sure about any of the numbers)
1.9 second steady canceld, but shot
2.1 auto finished (2.1[1.9 + lag] or 2.4[1.9+0.5] or 2.1[1.7+0.5 < 2.1]? *confused*)
2.3 second auto finished (or 2.1 + casttime instead of 2.1 + lag?)


How would this rotation go on?
And what would happen if IAotH proccs.. As far as I could see from my own tests, a 1.7 or 1.8 weapon speed is too fast to profit from the new macro.

What are my logs missing to help you find the answer to your question? Varying weapon speed weapons?

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Old 01/11/08, 5:51 PM   #255
Indora
Von Kaiser
 
Indora's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Azshara (EU)
I'm not sure, until now I have no idea how to test the perfect speed. ^^
But your lag would be an important information.
(And thank you for your work!)

Although... As you just mentioned it, various weaponspeeds should be useful.

Last edited by Indora : 01/11/08 at 6:03 PM.

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