Shot Rotation Illustrated - Page 29

Roon · 02/14/08, 11:44 AM

I should not be able to cast auto shots every 2 seconds with a 3 second bow, but I am able to.

I may have brought this up before over a month ago, but I really think it needs some looking at.

I have a 3.0 speed bow, as a marksman with no speed increases other than quiver, my auto shots fire immediately after steady shots(weird!), every time (with the .5 sec delay of course), with one exception, if I cast aimed shot, then immediately cast steady shot, the full time required to cast the autoshot after the aimed shot occurs(2.61 sec, as it should behave). I see a slightly longer delay than .5 seconds when using Aimed -> Steady -> Auto. Aimed shot seems to act as a hard reset that overrides steady shot, otherwise steady shot queues up my auto shot to fire at t=2 every time.

Now, am I bugged, and have been since learning Steady Shot, or does anyone else experience this?

Pseudographical Example:
( - is .1 sec, | is 1 sec, assume first | is t=0 sec, > represents an action taking place, . is a space separator)

Casting Aimed first:
Steady........>............>Auto..........
|---------|---------|---------|----

No Aimed Shot:
Steady........>....>Auto..................(weird!)
|---------|---------|---------|----

Cheeky · 02/14/08, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Roon

I should not be able to cast auto shots every 2 seconds with a 3 second bow, but I am able to.

I may have brought this up before over a month ago, but I really think it needs some looking at.

I have a 3.0 speed bow, as a marksman with no speed increases other than quiver, my auto shots fire immediately after steady shots(weird!), every time (with the .5 sec delay of course), with one exception, if I cast aimed shot, then immediately cast steady shot, the full time required to cast the autoshot after the aimed shot occurs(2.61 sec, as it should behave). I see a slightly longer delay than .5 seconds when using Aimed -> Steady -> Auto. Aimed shot seems to act as a hard reset that overrides steady shot, otherwise steady shot queues up my auto shot to fire at t=2 every time.

Now, am I bugged, and have been since learning Steady Shot, or does anyone else experience this?

Pseudographical Example:
( - is .1 sec, | is 1 sec, assume first | is t=0 sec, > represents an action taking place, . is a space separator)

Casting Aimed first:
Steady........>............>Auto..........
|---------|---------|---------|----

No Aimed Shot:
Steady........>....>Auto..................(weird!)
|---------|---------|---------|----

Please provide a time-stamped combat log of this. What you think you see may not be what is actually happening.

Roon · 02/15/08, 11:46 AM

Will do ASAP

Beovylf · 02/15/08, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Rawman

I bring my question to this thread instead.

Quick facts: 2.7 speed with quiver, 0-22-39 survival, 3/3 ToTH, 4/5 MT.

Should I stick to this macro, or is there anything I should change?

If I want to go 1:1.5 with arcane shot, what should be changed?

What are your goals? Raiding? PvP?

If raiding then you should abandon that macro completely... if PvP then I have no idea.

Sarutobi · 02/15/08, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Roon

I have a 3.0 speed bow, as a marksman with no speed increases other than quiver, my auto shots fire immediately after steady shots(weird!), every time (with the .5 sec delay of course), with one exception, if I cast aimed shot, then immediately cast steady shot, the full time required to cast the autoshot after the aimed shot occurs(2.61 sec, as it should behave). I see a slightly longer delay than .5 seconds when using Aimed -> Steady -> Auto. Aimed shot seems to act as a hard reset that overrides steady shot, otherwise steady shot queues up my auto shot to fire at t=2 every time.

The delay is occurring because Aimed Shot resets your Auto Shot cooldown. What this means is, after the aimed fires, you have to wait the entire 3.0 (minus haste) seconds before the next auto shot. If you are attempting to work Aimed Shot into a DPS roation DO NOT DO THIS, you will be killing your DPS. If you're doing it as either the first attack on a mob before going into your rotation, or as the first shot for a misdirect, you have time for 2 specials before that auto shot fires.

Liaa · 02/17/08, 10:30 AM

After very thorough reading, studying and testing, I just can't seem to master my shot rotation the way I used to. I used to tops the DPS meters on every boss with a little castsequence macro I made up with a pencil, ruler and piece of graph paper. Now, as it stands, I come in around 8th-9th, sometimes dropping ridiculously low.

My macro used to be:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

It wasn't until the patch that I noticed my Auto Shots hanging up, as many have said, because the auto shot fires and the sequence waits for the next one to be fired until it continues with it's string of shots. To be brief, my DPS sits around 590 unbuffed because I am hung up for 2.5 seconds.

I've tried everything I've seen on these forums, blown through quiver fulls of arrows and still can get myself to break 700DPS.
I'm an MM hunter with Sunfury and Clefthoof Hide Quiver (%15).
I have 2167 RAP with hawk and TA, and my paperdoll bow speed is supposedly 2.52s.

Basically what I'm asking is if someone out there either
a. Has the same problems and can offer some input or
b. Actually knows what's going on and can give me the nitty gritty of the problem and show me a solution.

I'm basically looking for the ideal sit and spam macro for my spec and weapon speed after the patch, as I can't figure out what has been changed and how to work around it.

erb · 02/17/08, 12:29 PM

I don't know of any macro or any problems with your particular macro but my advice would be to try out hand weaving your shots just to see if you can adjust to that style. Post patch its much, much easier to hand time shots. Just wait to launch your special until slightly before your auto fires.

I've raided a bunch of times as pvp marks spec using Wolfslayer (nothing else ever dropped) and my gear isn't much better than yours but hand timing my shots produces far more DPS.

Rawman · 02/17/08, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Flouyd

I think this is what you looking for

/castsequence reset=2 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget] Lightning Breath
/castrandom Arcane Shot

Cheers man, will try it out!

Beovylf, It's all for raiding and PvE. Is the cycle that Flouyd suggested better?

Juggernaught · 02/18/08, 8:55 AM

Originally Posted by Liaa

My macro used to be:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

It wasn't until the patch that I noticed my Auto Shots hanging up, as many have said, because the auto shot fires and the sequence waits for the next one to be fired until it continues with it's string of shots. To be brief, my DPS sits around 590 unbuffed because I am hung up for 2.5 seconds.

I'm not sure that there is an amicable solution to an arcane/multi macro. As you have already noted the old castsequence macro has problems where the autoshot and arcane shot can fire out of sequence causing delays.

One solution is to move those 5 points you have in Improved stings (do you really use stings that much?) into improved arcane shot and use the following:
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/castrandom Arcane Shot

I've not found a 'nice' way of including both arcane and multi in a macro together. If you use the castsequennce you mention above above you get the out-of-sequence firing problems. If you change the /castrandom line of the other macro above to "/castrandom Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot" you get an odd rotation pattern where arcane and autoshot can fire with only 1 auto/steady combo between them, causing a degree of clipping.

I'd certainly reccomend trying the imp. arcane shot route (works just as well on trash pulls when you have to be careful around CC too).

MasterZeus · 02/19/08, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Liaa

After very thorough reading, studying and testing, I just can't seem to master my shot rotation the way I used to. I used to tops the DPS meters on every boss with a little castsequence macro I made up with a pencil, ruler and piece of graph paper. Now, as it stands, I come in around 8th-9th, sometimes dropping ridiculously low.

My macro used to be:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

As Juggernaught said, your specials are firing after the auto shot by accident causing your next special to be significantly delayed. To fix that, switch to this macro:

/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, Steady Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();

You don't need the hide and show on the UIErrorsFrame and also don't need the other two autoshots. They will fire by themselves whether they are macroed in or not.

But, as you can see modeled on Cheeky's latest spreadsheet or just by testing, you will notice that /castsequence is slower than /cast and /castrandom is because it waits for return trips to verify each step in the macro. Switching to using /cast and /castrandom greatly increases your DPS. So, I recommend this macro:

/castsequence !Auto Shot, Steady Shot;
/castrandom Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();

This will give you almost identical results, but faster with greater DPS and an automatic correction for haste. Or, take out the Multi-Shot part and spec 5/5 Imp Arcane like Juggernaught said.

• vank · 02/19/08, 2:32 PM

With 5/5 IAS I found this works fine. I use it on trash and just switch to manual on Bosses.

/castsequence reset=5 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Steady Shot

The Auto Shot between Arcane and Steady still fires.

ohrion · 02/19/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Juggernaught

I've not found a 'nice' way of including both arcane and multi in a macro together.

I've been using something like this, I'm at work right now so it may not be exact:

/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/castsequence Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command, Lightning Breath
/castrandom [modifier:alt] Multi Shot, [nomodifier:shift] Arcane Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

The only problem I've noticed so far is when I'm not using arcane shot (or maybe using multi shot, haven't payed enough attention yet) it doesn't cast kill command or lightning breath. Other than that it weaves multi/arcane, steady, and auto just fine from what I've seen.

Auto/Steady/Arc
75/62/28 = 1:1.20 on hydross
66/70/39 = 1:1.65 on lurker
87/81/27 = 1:1.24 on flk
84/74/33 = 1:1.27 on tidewalker

Going to try removing KC from the rotation and see what that does to the ratios this week. I also need to look into having arc and multi on seperate lines.

Stonga · 02/19/08, 5:09 PM

Edit: Sorry, delete this post.

Stinkerbelle · 02/19/08, 9:09 PM

Originally Posted by MasterZeus

I recommend this macro:

/castsequence !Auto Shot, Steady Shot;
/castrandom Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();

This will give you almost identical results, but faster with greater DPS and an automatic correction for haste.

Does this really weave Arcane / Multi between Steady and Auto Shot?

In my limited experience trying it while MM spec'd, it has not.

I tried this and similar /castsequence + /castrandom macros for MM-spec'd raid days (I usually spec BM for raids, MM for arena), and my combat log showed the Arcanes and Multis occuring, well, randomly. Frequently they were occuring immediately after an Auto Shot instead of before it.

This was with a 3.0 speed bow, a small amount of passive haste (25), no IAotH or other proc hastes, ~150 ms latency, G15 macro mashing, not moving, etc., so plenty of time to get an Arcane or Multi in between the steady and auto (which I returned to doing manually since the /castrandom part of the macro failed to deliver).

MasterZeus · 02/20/08, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stinkerbelle

Does this really weave Arcane / Multi between Steady and Auto Shot?

It is not perfect. The Arcanes and Multis are in fact random as you would expect. But, as the rotation spends more time casting Steady Shot than anything else, when your cooldowns finish, you will most likely be casting Steady Shot. That means, that the Arcane or Multi will come right after the steady.

But, Arcanes and Multis coming before the Steadys does occur. In my experience from watching quartz, it isn't that big of a deal (there is very little clipping) since this macro is significantly faster than using the /castsequence macro as latency is no longer a factor. If you an amazing manual timer, you might do more DPS, but I doubt you can beat the macro over the course of a several hour long raid as it fires shots within milliseconds of each shot being available.