matthra

To ask a dumb question, why does everyone start their cast sequence with steady shot? Wouldn't it be better to lead with auto shot and then follow with a steady shot?

 

jarlelin

Ultimately it doesn't matter since you will be looping it anwyay. You would gain a very small amount of damage in your first second of firing if you opened with an auto, but these macros are more for sustaining your dps over long periods of time. I allways supposed they had auto shot tied to a button and hit that one before starting their macro spam. (I do and I don't use a cast sequence macro.)



Your damage as a hunter with upwards of 500 ms ping (Let alone 1800ms) is oing to be very bad not matter what you did. I suppose your best choice would be to opt out the easy way using only auto shots, arcane shots and multi shots. Try to bingo your arcane/multi between your autos and enjoy your <500 dps.

 

phlipy

I really appreciate the valueable information found on this site!

Please correct me if any of these basic considerations are wrong (my main is a rogue):

1. In long boss-fights you aspire the best DPM (damage per mana) because it is also the best dps.

2. In order to achieve no. 1 you skip aimed shot (only using it as an opener combined with missdirection) and (completely) serpent sting during your shot-rotation.

3. In order to achieve no. 1 you try not to delay the auto-shot by using wrong-timed special-shots.

4. You try to finish casting any special-shot at least 0,5s before the next auto-shot starts, because auto-shot starts not earlier than 0,5 s after the last special-shot is finished
(above called 'breathing').

4a. In a typical long-boss-fight-shot-rotation steady shot is the shot with the longest casting time, 1,5 s. Therefore it is best to start casting a steady shot right after the last auto-shot so the next auto-shot is not delayed.

5. Global Cooldown does not affect the start of an auto-shot.

Are these assumptions correct? Thank you for your help!

 

• Chicken

Assumption #2 isn't entirely correct, the reason you don't use Aimed Shot is because it resets the shot timer, which is just plain bad in all cases mid-fight. (Since it puts your next auto-shot from the moment you cast to Aimed Shot Cast Time + Attack Speed)

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

zork

I hope this wasn't mentioned before but you need to have the "/cast Kill Command" line before your sequence otherwise Steady Shot will delay the cast for ~1.x seconds.

If you are playing with high ping try "Quartz Castbar" and start your macro with a /stopcasting line. Maybe this can help.

BLOG [ZIB] _ GUILD [TDMOG] _ INTERFACE [ROTHUI] _ CHAR [ROTHAR]

 

aartamen

There's one thing that I clearly fail to understand. The "better rotation" only rotates about every 8 seconds with the Auto at 2.5 seconds (2.9/1.15) and even faster with 2.44 It also slides due to multi CD ending much later than the third Auto.

Arcane is not being fired as soon as available. Multi cannot be fired every 8 seconds. It's not really a rotation at all.


Also DPMana is not something that is even remotely the most important damage measure. SSC/TK bosses die quickly enough for a hunter to simply outlast them with pots and Mp5 food/oil/elixir. There are judgements and Vampiric Embrace. There are fights where burst damage is more important due to constant repositioning - Al'ar, Voidreaver, Lurker.

Arcane and talented Multi hit much harder than Steady, therefore need to stay in the rotation.

 

lythrdskynrd

I'm not sure I understand this ... it's certainly somethign that is open to fine tuning (though after a completely horrible week at work I'm not sure I'm going to get to rewriting & redrawing the images as soon as I would like to.

I think finding the *best* rotation would fall outside of the scope of what I was trying to accomplish ... and there is a 'screen resolution' issue to drawing a picture of a longer rotation. What I did hope to accomplish is create a 'highlight real' of the primary issues in shot rotation to introduce the subject to a newer hunter coming here for good advice.

As has been pointed out already I've left off some important things like 0.5 second autoshot cast time and haste effects.


(new image fo da fanz!)

"If you give a man a fish,
you feed him for a day
If you teach a man to fish,
you feed him for his whole life"

In many of these fights that you (quite rightly) point out that DPM isn't useful for I would hope that the readers of the guide while getting a grasp of 'the basics' could adapt to the situation as they saw fit ... similarly ... choosing certain talents change the rotation.

You certainly raise good and valid points - though I might disagree with the forcefulness with which you're discounting DPM ... I appreciate that the original guide could mention the alternatives to DPM ...

Although I've recently dropped skinning for herbalism so I can drink more potions I'm not sure everyone want to be a consumable junkie. Just like I don't think that everyone wants to talent for multishot.

*thinks a bit*
*nods*

It is a whole new way of looking at the issue for me though ... interesting ... thanks!

 

aartamen

I am myself already convinced that MM does not have the damage potential of BM. Therefore talented MS has become a rare part of a typical build. I will give MM a few more chances. And will probably not respect to BM. It's strikes me as both difficult on pet side and boring on ranged side. And I want it to be easy on pet side and varied on ranged side.

I came up with a cyclable rotation simply by adding another Auto Shot and another Steady Shot to yours. That way the cycle increases to 10 seconds and Multi can be infinitely cycled within it. Of course Arcane drops into a 10 second cooldown, but a quick look revealed that keeping Arcane on 6 second cooldown results in a 8-auto shot (20 sec) rotation and most likely drops a steady, which results in 1 extra arcane replacing two steadies every 20 seconds. So a much longer macro, with less damage.

It also suffers from being an idealistic construct without any gaps between casts or shots.


From a practical POV I tried modifying my macro yesterday and was unhappy with the results. I think I got even less DPS out of it than [Auto/Special - repeat] that I had before.

 

Bikiniwax

I have my /castsequence before my /cast KC and Kill Command only goes off after my autoshot and before the next Steady Shot.

I have tried it the way you suggest with /KC before the /castsequence but it seemed to me that KC would then go off after the Steady Shot and before the Auto shot.

Are you suggesting that a KC between a Steady Shot and Auto Shot is better?

 

Moocowkiller

Well, there will be times where Multishot and Arcane Shot are both still on cooldown. In this case you simply wait for the next auto-shot to fire, and then start casting steady-shot immediately after. By the time it casts the cooldown on multi-shot or arcane shot will be up and you can continue the rotation.

 

zork

I tried it myself and if my autoshot was a crit and I began to cast the next Steady i cannot activate KC after Steady is fired.
So I put KC on top of the macro and now everytime my autoshot is a crit KC is used before steady. You have to spam the button though. Maybe its a latency issue.

BLOG [ZIB] _ GUILD [TDMOG] _ INTERFACE [ROTHUI] _ CHAR [ROTHAR]

 

aartamen

that's not a rotation then, just like a Kill Command does not kill the rotation that you need to add things to, does not rotate

 

Critties

I've been playing hunter since release and after reading all the theory crafting behind shot rotations and BM, I specced in to BM.

After a lot of reading I decided on the following macro for AS/Steady and KC

this my AS/Steady macro
/showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();UIErrorsFrame:Show();

and this is for my KC
/cast Arcane Shot(Rank 9)
/cast [target=pet, dead]; [nopet]; [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();UIErrorsFrame:Show();

I only spam the KC macro after i fire an auto shot.

I want to know if it's worth shooting an Arcane and a KC or not. From my experience trying to use a KC and still do a Steady was clipping my auto shots a lot so, I wanted a macro that I could use that wouldn't clip.

By using an Arcane/KC combo I get more damage than from just steady and my autoshots never get clipped.
But is this good for dps or not?

What are your opinions on my macro choices?

 

aartamen

KC is a major part of a BM hunter arsenal. Cast it manually immediately after auto fires, simultaneously with casting the next Steady. Most BM abandon Arcane for mana reasons. If it hits harder than SS, use it. Just watch the mana.

 

Harwin

Depends on your bow speed. Mine is as fast as I can handle given my reaction and latency - so manually casting KC and then steady will delay my auto. I'm working on getting practiced with the strategy Critties is using - when KC is up do arcane and then KC (arcane first to get the GCD reset ASAP). (I still need work -probably need to download an autoshot bar - I fired 21 arcanes on Gruul and only 7 kill commands... clearly a waste)

It's more mana intensive to be sure, but KC isn't all that mana efficient for me otherwise, given that it only does about half the damage it should because of damage lost to delaying autoshot.

 

The Iron Colonel

Honestly, I've just eschewed a macro entirely. Unless your speed is hella fast or you have major latency issues (highly variable or high steady latency) you'd be better off just manually timing the shots. Auto->KC->steady is a fairly easy (and forgiving) sequence to fire.

 

Critties

I play on oceanic so i get about 300ping. Add that to my 1.9speed and you see why i need a macro.

I would clip every time i tried a kc/steady during one KS cool down.

Just to add, I just did gruul and was 6th on damage meters. This is after my pet was bugged for 45% of the fight and also using a pet that was only lvl67.

Should be tops once he's 70 and not bugged.


edit: So you can cast a KC and a steady at the same time? I didn't realize that was possible. I know that you can't do a KC while steady is casting though.

Harwin, try using an AS bar and my macros. I always get an arcane off with a KC. I also have my AS macro bound to my mouse5 key, and the KC macro as SHIFT+mouse5 to make things easy.
As for the Mana issue, I was with an Spriest and I popped 2 fel mana potions. No problems there.

 

Moe

This is my version of the Steady Shot Spam macro:

#showtooltip steady shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/cast Kill Command
/cast [pet:wolf] furious howl
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

It adds even a line for triggering the Furious Howl if your pet is a Wolf.

"If you cant say what you're meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying" - Babylon 5, Centauri Minister of Intelligence

 

Ishmaael

Strongly disagreed, without comparing myself to any other hunter i can safely say with 500 ping on a good day, i can strongly perform dps all the time to a high degree. I believe once you've played for a decent amount of time (say almost 3 years) with your terrible net and from Australia, having a ping of say 500 is no different to having a ping of 50, except in that it requires you to predict all your shots. The only time i can honestly say my ping costs me dmg is when i am predicting a steady and do it that millisecond early causing a lost auto (might happen 1nce per boss, if that).

 

Beerbaron

Is this correct that KC would only be cast after an auto when setting the macro up in this order? Can anyone clarify the mechanics/logic being taken when you are spamming one of these macros. In other words, since KC requires a click of its own, what condition is required in order for the macro to get past the /castsequence *without* consuming the click.

What I'm not clear on is if the auto consumes a click, wouldn't the next click start the next steady? If the auto does not consume a click, wouldn't it then be possible to cast KC before the auto if you spam the button?

 

Trohck

Can you explain why manually timing KC and Steady is better than macro'ing both of them to a mousewheel?

Manually timing implies that you can be more accurate, timing-wise, than the number of commands the mousewheel can send. I.e. if mousewheel sends 10 commands per second, your accuracy in timing KC and Steady would always have to be within 0.1s of your current latency (which fluctuates).

 

The Iron Colonel

In order to macro them to the mousewheel, I'd have to use (or perhaps wouldn't have to, but probably would) a castsequence macro. I raid with relatively high latency and consequently would wind up with the classic latency doubling issue (send message/receive message each at 1xlatency). I've used a mousewheel before, but I just prefer manually timing my shots. Perhaps it's a play style issue? I realize that more and more I deviate from the accepted "macro and go" philosophy, but I've found that my dps is higher when manually timing.

 

Forar

My main is a rogue, but I play a lot of alts, including a hunter that I enjoy greatly.

Reading these forums (and this thread in particular) has certainly put into words and diagrams things that I've long struggled to understand. Said hunter is currently BM spec (was for levelling, and now is apparently a very viable raid spec), and aspires to five mans and possibly some Karazhan.

I apologize if I've missed it, but does anyone have a recommended mod for displaying a shot timer, preferably as some kind of bar perhaps? I'll wander into the other Hunter threads as well, but with all the talk about shot timing, I figured that this would be an excellent place to find out how to best time said shots.

 

Trohck

So do you use /stopcasting to avoid this manually? If not, I don't see how manual casting could improve your latency unless you were pinpoint-accurate as I described.

 

Revv

Let's see, your choices for a good auto shot timer are pretty much:

BigTrouble
LittleTrouble
ZHunterMod

For a very nice casting bar mod (shows GCD), I use Quartz.

One interesting thing to do is to place the autoshot bar (I use ZHunterMod) on top of your casting bar. That way, you can "chase" the bars. So, when your auto shot bar indicates you've just fired an auto shot, hit your macro/steady shot/other shot, and you should be perfectly fine for not clobbering (clipping/interrupting) your autoshot. Or so the theory goes. I am having issues with interrupting my auto shots still, but working on that.