Help me please - Page 100

Arkedos · 03/21/08, 10:36 AM

Hello hunter players !

I am looking for advice in survival hunter questions.
I really need to improve my DPS to achieve better results in raids especially when I am looking forward to sunwell plateau.

Well I tested my DPS at Dr. Boom. My best result was about 1050 DPS (mesarued with recount ), without pet and any Buffs.

I am using this macro:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castrandom !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Lightning Breath
/cast Rapid Fire

Here is my gear:
The World of Warcraft Armory

I especially need advice in questions of shot rotation. I heard about 1:2 and 1:5 rotations but I don't know how they exactly look like because I played beastmaster before and as you all know as a beastmaster macro-spamming is enough.

Sincerly,
Arkedos

Khassandra · 03/21/08, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kamaa

#showtooltip Steady Shot

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castrandom !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Lightning Breath
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

This is currently the best DPS macro.

I would have to disagree with that statement. The "best DPS macro" depends on a person's gear, specifically their weapon, as far as I've seen. I've not often seen anyone recommend a /castrandom macro as higher dps, its usually either the /castsequence or /cast macro, depending on a person's weapon speed. With the Wolfslayer, I would recommend the /cast !Auto Shot, Steady Shot macro instead. Miren, try testing out both (or all three) on Dr. Boom and see which one works best for you. Also, having the /cast Lightning Breath in there is unnecessary unless you have a wind serpent. It doesn't appear that Miren does.

To Miren, I would recommend taking the 3 points out of Hawk Eye and put them into Mortal Shots. Personally, I don't think your gem choices are quite as bad as you've been slammed with. I would venture a guess to say that your biggest problems likely are your pet management and shot rotation. Fix those and you should see a good increase.

Knurd · 03/21/08, 10:46 AM

I have been reading these forums for a long time, and have always been able to find out the answers to my questions without asking, but I have an issue that I can't seem to find an answer to so here it goes:

I know that you can "q" targets for your pet, so that they go from one target to the next without an additional command from you. I am assuming that you can also do this for yourself while you are spamming your macro. I am unsure how to do either of these things, but I have done them a couple of times without meaning to.

How do you do this, so I know how not to do it? I wiped our Kara group, (which should be a no wipe run for us), twice last night because of this ... although I should have been paying closer attention to my targets, I am interested in knowing how to do this so I know how not to do it in the future.

Thank you in advance!

Khassandra · 03/21/08, 10:53 AM

Under Options, Interface, there's an option to stop auto attack, which is supposed to keep you from auto attacking when switching targets. I've noticed that it doesn't seem to work as well as it used to, though. I shot a sheep last night in BT because of this.

I've had to be much more careful lately as a result.

Axejess · 03/21/08, 10:56 AM

Btw I am seeing here that big red kitty don't uses bite on his pet on lurker. Is it better in raids to don't use it on your pet? I always thought it was sins it gives beter dpf then claw did. Anyone has some insights on this? Is this only on the lurker fight ore is it an overal thing? IF so you can save some point in training it and spend them else.

@Other targeting guys. If a target is about to die dont keep pushing the macro like a mad man lawl. Just stop when the mob is about to die.

Knurd · 03/21/08, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Khassandra

Under Options, Interface, there's an option to stop auto attack, which is supposed to keep you from auto attacking when switching targets. I've noticed that it doesn't seem to work as well as it used to, though. I shot a sheep last night in BT because of this.

I've had to be much more careful lately as a result.

Thank you for the quick response, I just end up feeling bad because I wiped the group, however we have been playing together long enough now that it is laughable, I just hate that feeling. We as a guild are working our through ZA now and we are running Kara here and there for badges.

Although as the night went on our rogue wiped us because he was messing around ... It's probably more a matter of not taking the situation serously because we have done it so many times.

Oh well, Thank you again!

Cheers!

Enova · 03/21/08, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Tap

I am curious to know what other Hunter's do during Void Reaver in regards to pet management? Do you "bob and weave" with your pet to avoid getting too much threat on it, do you keep your pet in and let him attack, or do you keep your pet at your side merely for Focused Fire/Bestial Wrath (if a BM spec)?

With the two piece Tier 5 bonus, I have left my cat in the last few fights and let him just DPS (between that bonus and Mend Pet, I have no problems keeping him alive), however the tanks in the alliance guild that we play with have insuinated that keeping a pet in and attacking with the 2.3 mechanics (pet attacking from behind now), it can pull Void Reaver off course and cause him to "shuffle" towards pets. I keep a close eye on Omen, and my pet isn't above the tanks in threat (though he is fairly high on the table). I have not experienced this scenario to date, even killing Void Reaver past 2.3, but not leaving my cat in for as long as I have during recent weeks, and not with the current guild I am raiding with

I'm looking for some other experiences, as I find this rather odd, or am I just being daft, and should not let my cat be in there the whole time?

It's perfectly safe to leave your pet in for Void Reaver, even during poundings.
If your pet does not aggro him (and if growl is turned off, that will never happen), VR does not in fact move to compensate for your pet's positioning. He turns, however, as he switches tanks, though; that may shift your pet out of position and cause parries leading to extra hits on the tanks.

Generally, if you have a shaman keeping Chain Heal on melee, and you have max rank Arcane Resistance on your pet, you can just keep it in for the whole fight, even during Poundings, with Mend Pet up before they start.

Cheeky · 03/21/08, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Axejess

Btw I am seeing here that big red kitty don't uses bite on his pet on lurker. Is it better in raids to don't use it on your pet? I always thought it was sins it gives beter dpf then claw did. Anyone has some insights on this? Is this only on the lurker fight ore is it an overal thing? IF so you can save some point in training it and spend them else.

For maximum DPS you want to use Bite. It does more damage per GCD than Claw/Gore, and more damage per focus than anything. Then again, if you want max DPS you don't use a pet with Claw at all.

Pixen · 03/21/08, 11:24 AM

I see a lot of people advocating using Gore/Claw over Bite. Given that Bite does more damage overall and is more dpf efficient than either of the other two, I could never understand why. The only reason I could come up with is that some hunters forgo training Bite in lieu of survivability talents for their pet, like arcane resist for TK, or higher ranks of Stamina.

No idea why else you'd do it, but I've seen the suggestion not to use it more than once.

Cheeky · 03/21/08, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Pixen

I see a lot of people advocating using Gore/Claw over Bite.

A lot of people can be wrong. Hell, this very thread proves that multiple times a week. If you are a raiding Hunter, your pet should have Bite + Gore/LB. Bite + Claw is just a few DPS less, so it's ok, but not ideal.

Axejess · 03/21/08, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

For maximum DPS you want to use Bite. It does more damage per GCD than Claw/Gore, and more damage per focus than anything. Then again, if you want max DPS you don't use a pet with Claw at all.

Well yeah I know that gore is better then claw and that LB will be beter when you reach a certain amount of cri. But he has posted the folowing once on his site:

We dislike Bite and Claw together because of the WoWWebStats reports we’ve seen running with them. After a 25-man instance with both Bite and Claw, we’ll see the WWS report look like this:

Bite and Claw
Claw 20,000 damage
Bite 4000 damage

But with just Claw, we’ll see:

Claw Only
Claw 27,000 damage

(These numbers are not based upon any specific instance, but an amalgam of our analysis.)

What our testing has shown is that Bite interrupts the Focus-dumping of Claw. We we are raid-buffed, we’re usually over 30% crit. We have both Bestial Discipline and Go For The Throat. We generate a ton of Focus, but Bite always seems to lower our pet’s DPS. And Bite costs an extra 29 pet talent points that we can use for resistances.

If you’ve got Claw or Gore, don’t sweat Bite. So sayeth BRK, so let it be done.

I am wondering why he got this results. Sins claw alone does more overal damage in his situation then claw+bite and so this means with just claw he gets more dps.

Originally Posted by Tap

As a hypothesis, I would guess a lack of focus regeneration might be a primary root cause.

Without taking Go For The Throat or Bestial Discipline, having two focus using abilities could put a strain on the available focus your pet has. Claw is referred to as a "focus dump" for a reason; you need an ability to use the excess focus you have accumulated through these two talents, otherwise it is wasted. If you have two abilities using a limited amount of focus regeneration your pet will run out of focus pretty fast and your overall DPS will hurt because of it.

Just updated my quote. As you can see he has Bestial Discipline and Go For The Throat and above 30% cri. So according to you he still has problem with focus regen and dumping with the two combines? That sounds a little odd does it?

On a side note what is probably the best place outside of raids to test pet dps? The weird mobs outside the portal to outland i guess?

Tap · 03/21/08, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Axejess

Well yeah I know that gore is better then claw and that LB will be beter when you reach a certain amount of cri. But he has posted the folowing once on his site:

I am wondering why he got this results. Sins claw alone does more overal damage in his situation then claw+bite and so this means with just claw he gets more dps.

As a hypothesis, I would guess a lack of focus regeneration might be a primary root cause.

Without taking Go For The Throat or Bestial Discipline, having two focus using abilities could put a strain on the available focus your pet has. Claw is referred to as a "focus dump" for a reason; you need an ability to use the excess focus you have accumulated through these two talents, otherwise it is wasted. If you have two abilities using a limited amount of focus regeneration your pet will run out of focus pretty fast and your overall DPS will hurt because of it.

Cheeky · 03/21/08, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Axejess

I am wondering why he got this results. Sins claw alone does more overal damage in his situation then claw+bite and so this means with just claw he gets more dps.

If he posted the full logs we could look at how many of each ability were used (focus cost), variances in crit/hit (which can be easily mathematically eliminated) and total time spent in a fight.

I know Big Red Kitty has a pretty devoted following, but that kind of analysis and reporting is pretty slipshod.

Prvtdonut · 03/21/08, 1:27 PM

I have been upgrading my gear here and there and have been testing out many different shot rotation macros, but I can't seem to find the proper one for my level. Every time I check back here there is a new one up, someone saying that this is best, another saying that theirs is better.

I use
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast [exists,target=pettarget] Lightning Breath
/cast [exists,target=pettarget] Kill Command
/cast !auto shot
/cast Steady shot

I'm gathering that the pet abilities should be moved down, but should I even be using that macro? My weapon speed is 2.14 because of [Cloak of Fiends] and as such should I be using a cast sequence, 2 /casts or a cast random? I've tried the cast sequence and /cast but I havent tried /castrandom.

Heres a link to my armory page. There are a couple gemming mistakes namely the AP/Mp5 and the seaspray in the boots, but I needed to activate the meta.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Aesolus · 03/21/08, 1:38 PM

Hey fellow hunters.

I have a question regarding shot rotations on various ranged weapons.

My guild has recently started Black Temple, and we have killed three bosses so far. I have had the luck of having an awesome (looking at least) crossbow by the name of [Legionkiller] dropping for me. However, since I have been using this crossbow, I have been noticing a slight decrease in DPS. Before [Legionkiller] I was using [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] with a 3:2 shot rotation. With [Legionkiller] I'm using a 1:1 shot rotation. I know there has been a theorycraft actually stating that [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] comes out on top, but I would still like to wield [Legionkiller], and was wondering if there was anything I could do to counter the decline in DPS. My spec is the cookiecutter, 41/20, Beast Mastery spec.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Kamaa · 03/21/08, 1:40 PM

/castrandom works great.

It seems to work better with slower attack speeds.

Kamaa · 03/21/08, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aesolus

Hey fellow hunters.

I have a question regarding shot rotations on various ranged weapons.

My guild has recently started Black Temple, and we have killed three bosses so far. I have had the luck of having an awesome (looking at least) crossbow by the name of Legionkiller dropping for me. However, since I have been using this crossbow, I have been noticing a slight decrease in DPS. Before Legionkiller I was using Wolfslayer Sniper-Rifle with a 3:2 shot rotation. With Legionkiller I'm using a 1:1 shot rotation. I know there has been a theorycraft actually stating that Wolfslayer comes out on top, but I would still like to wield Legionkiller, and was wondering if there was anything I could do to counter the decline in DPS. My spec is the cookiecutter, 41/20, Beast Mastery spec.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Get a [Dragonspine Trophy]. Otherwise Wolfslayer has a higher potential for DPS.

Aesolus · 03/21/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kamaa

Get a [Dragonspine Trophy]. Otherwise Wolfslayer has a higher potential for DPS.

Would gathering haste rating gear work aswell, or would I just gimp my DPS by wasting statpoints on it?

Prvtdonut · 03/21/08, 2:49 PM

Usually DST is the only haste from gear you need (at least from my experience) but if my guild doesnt run gruuls this week the only way to get it is from our pugs. Luckily I'm one of the leaders of it and we reserve DST for our guild.

Miren · 03/22/08, 12:26 AM

AFter all the asked questions and great answers, I changed my gems, my talents, my enchants and my pet.
And as a result tonight at BT, I raised my dps from 650 to 1621 that is "really nice", I was the 3rd in the WWS list.
Thank you very much for everything.

• Praxx · 03/22/08, 3:46 AM

Originally Posted by Miren

AFter all the asked questions and great answers, I changed my gems, my talents, my enchants and my pet.
And as a result tonight at BT, I raised my dps from 650 to 1621 that is "really nice", I was the 3rd in the WWS list.
Thank you very much for everything.

See, now that is what we like to hear. Damn nice!

Arkedos · 03/22/08, 12:18 PM

Hello,

I just wanted to ask what do you think of that specc:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

Anyway, what would you change ?

jurgen · 03/22/08, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Arkedos

Hello,

I just wanted to ask what do you think of that specc:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

Anyway, what would you change ?

I have never seriously raided as survival, but you NEED to max expose weakness.

Arkedos · 03/22/08, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by jurgen

I have never seriously raided as survival, but you NEED to max expose weakness.

Well I came down to this:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

I just thought it could be useful to have barrage skilled when you are using a 1:1.5 rotation.

Aragda · 03/22/08, 8:58 PM

Originally Posted by Arkedos

Well I came down to this:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

I just thought it could be useful to have barrage skilled when you are using a 1:1.5 rotation.

Keep in mind while building ANY survival raiding spec that you MUST max expose weakness. That one tallent is the entire purpose of raiding as survival. Your personal dps takes a large hit by being survival instead of BM, but the more agi you can pump into that debuff for the rest of the physical dps in the raid, the more those people in your guild will love you.