As promised, here is a WWS of my DPS on tonights FLK attempts in SSC and is well above my theoretical limit in Cheeky's spreadsheet. I'm not sure how to explain it, I always calculate with full raid buffs as I would be in the encounter.
Having mostly Kara gear and topping DPS charts with almost 1500dps, I'm pretty darn pleased with myself tonight.
Looking for tips on where to upgrade my gear, first thing is pants (T5 or VR Greaves) then I'll replace Sunfury with CoRS. Not sure after that point.
Tonight was a guild 1st for FLK, we hope to be done with SSC in about 3 weeks (started only last week with Hydross and Lurker). Next week is Morog and Leo.
Looking the the FLK log, your rotation (apart from wasting mana/GCDs on Serpent Sting) looks great. You could just be a very good Hunter. It's been known to happen now and again. My all-time best Karathress kill is only a little bit better, and I had mostly T5 by that point (about a month before serious Vashj attempts.) You're doing well.
Last night I received several items from hyjal and BT and was wanting to ask a few questions regarding them. I figured since it dropped and no one else needed it I would pick it up,[Choker of Serrated Blades], I was using the worgen claw neck peice and with that I have 122 hit. Ive punched them both into the spread sheet and was wondering if the spread sheet takes into account Armor Ignore(I may have missed whether it does or not in the spreadsheets forum). If I were to use hit food and wear the choker would it be an upgrade? I have 497 armor ignore currently and I'm not quite sure how well that increases my dps, Ive looked over different posts and havent really found anything much on armor ignore other than its great but don't go out of your way for it.
One more question I have is about a pair of shoulders I received. [Beast-Tamer's Shoulders]. I got that last night and [Shoulders of the Hidden Predator]the night before. Should I just switch out the beast tamer's for BM friendly fights, or just forget about them and stick with the predator? I lose over 1% crit placing me at 27.34%. Any help is appreciated, thank you.
Hello, I've been reading a lot about the 3:2 macro, and how it works. But can't seem to find an answer to my question. Hopefully someone knows and could help me. I'm trying to decide whether the new Badge bow would be better, or if I should hold out and wait for the Archimonde's bow (BristleBlitz). When I input the BristleBlitz(which is 3.0 speed), i get a higher DPS than when I input the new badge crossbow(2.8), using the 3:2 macro.
So my question is which combo would do the most DPS:
a) new Badge xbow with ~50 haste rating using 1:1
b) BristleBlitz bow with 0 haste rating using 3:2
c) BristleBlitz bow with ~80-100 haste rating using 3:2
Both ranged weapons are very close in DPS and each can out DPS the other in the right situation depending out your latency, shot rotation, etc. Contrary to 'popular' belief, the Archi bow can still out DPS the badge xbow.
Arrow-Fall Chestguard and Tunic of the Ranger Lord
First, I want to thank all of you for the invaluable information I have read here over time.
My question:
I am in a raiding guild whose focus is MH/BT. I will not be seeing Hydross or Kael for their chest pieces. As such I went after and got the Arrow-Fall chest in ZA and the Tunic of the Ranger Lord in Heroic Magistrar's.
The agility on the Tunic convinces me that it is the better item for PVE Raiding but Cheeky's spreadsheet gives Arrow-Fall the edge on DPS. Is this simply because of the Haste? (I do not have any other Haste items to boost it.)
If it is true that the Arrow-Fall will give the edge I would favor it as I can certainly use the mana but I wondered if this might just be a calculation problem in the spreadsheet?
In the thread http://elitistjerks.com/f40/t10433-h...s_tbc_hunters/ Hunter AEP is discussed. Has there been any changes to the values listed there and what values should be assigned to Haste and Armor Penetration?
Enter your gear/spec/rotation/pet into Cheeky's spreadsheet. Switch to the settings and results tab. On that tab is a table which will list how much DPS adding 1 point of a given stat will give you.
Originally Posted by DeeNogger
Every time I bite into an oatmeal raisin cookie mistaken for a chocolate-chip an angle loses its wings. Fucking trani's of the cookie world!
Enter your gear/spec/rotation/pet into Cheeky's spreadsheet. Switch to the settings and results tab. On that tab is a table which will list how much DPS adding 1 point of a given stat will give you.
First, I want to thank all of you for the invaluable information I have read here over time.
My question:
I am in a raiding guild whose focus is MH/BT. I will not be seeing Hydross or Kael for their chest pieces. As such I went after and got the Arrow-Fall chest in ZA and the Tunic of the Ranger Lord in Heroic Magistrar's.
The agility on the Tunic convinces me that it is the better item for PVE Raiding but Cheeky's spreadsheet gives Arrow-Fall the edge on DPS. Is this simply because of the Haste? (I do not have any other Haste items to boost it.)
If it is true that the Arrow-Fall will give the edge I would favor it as I can certainly use the mana but I wondered if this might just be a calculation problem in the spreadsheet?
What are your thoughts?
At my gear level, I have stuck with (gasp) the Season 3 chest. I never bothered to make the Ebon Netherscale gear and I have the Arrow-Fall sitting in my bank. Ranger-General has shown, spreadsheet-wise, to represent a few points in paper DPS over S3, but not enough to take over other hunters in guild with much greater need.
As a BM hunter running 3:2 with Sunfury, I have seen Arrow-Fall at (rounded) 1082 spreadsheet, Tunic at 1085, S3 at 1086, and Ranger-General at 1091.
When I get the new badge crossbow however, I may dust off my haste gear and work toward a 1:1, in which case I may use Arrow-Fall.
What shot rotation are you using in the spreadsheet? If you are using a 1:1, it will show the Arrow-fall on top, as any haste will reduce "dead time" between auto and steady using a Sunfury. If you goto the 3:2 rotation, the Tunic from Heroic MgT will be on top.
Don't know if I'm interrupting the conversation here or not and this forum may not be the right place for a question like this...but I'm having an issue with my dps. I don't know why I can't sustain any higher than 850 dps in any boss fights. I can't keep up with similarly geared mages or a similarly geared Fury Warrior in my guild and based on what I have read everywhere, I should be able to. I don't worry so much about being at the top of the list as much as I worry about whether or not I'm doing my part. Right now it doesn't feel as though I am.
Here's a link to my armory page - I just hope I'm in boss fight gear and not PvP gear when people begin looking at it:
In case I am in PvP gear, here are my stats, unbuffed:
Specced 41/20 BM
1868 AP (w/ Hawk active)
~29% Ccrit Rating
146 Hit Rating (I know its a bit above the cap but with the gear I have it's the best combination)
I suppose there are a lot of variables here (how well I manage my trinkets, how often I have to pull my pet out of combat, which elixirs/flasks/pots I use, etc...) but those things I tend to keep on top of. I'm specced BM (41/20), am using a 1:1 on a macro that incorporates KC and keeping AotH active throughout most fights. I don't clip or miss that I notice. I use either a Cat or Raptor as a pet. I usually end up with a higher percentage of damage done than any of our other hunters but two of them with inferior gear do higher dps (they do 950-1000 when I usually hover around 825). What am I missing?
If you're doing more damage than the other hunters but less DPS, I have to wonder, are you sure the DPS measurement is correct?
Are you sure it's incorporating pet damage and DPS?
Maybe they're showing higher DPS because they're not attacking during some portions but their pet is - I know when I was cube clicking on Mag but my pet was attacking my DPS kept climbing because I wasn't increasing the "S" part while I was clicking but I was increasing the "D"
I know when I was cube clicking on Mag but my pet was attacking my DPS kept climbing because I wasn't increasing the "S" part while I was clicking but I was increasing the "D"
Hmm.. That could have something to do with it. One of the fights he out-dps'd-but-under-damaged me on was "the challenge formerly known as lootreaver". So with everyone running in and out of combat it's possible his pet was in combat while he was out. Cheers Harwin, thanks for that..
Still, a bigger question that I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on is:
Shouldn't I be able to keep up with mages and dps warriors of similar gear? A mage with similar gear usually has about 1% more damage than I do on most of the bosses we are fighting (anyting from Gruul to A'lar). It bothers me that I don't think I'm reaching my potential and I've done the research and try to use the accepted models for hunter dps output...may be an impossible question to answer...I dunno...I keep thinking there is something simple and painfully obvious that I'm missing.
Looking the the FLK log, your rotation (apart from wasting mana/GCDs on Serpent Sting) looks great. You could just be a very good Hunter. It's been known to happen now and again. My all-time best Karathress kill is only a little bit better, and I had mostly T5 by that point (about a month before serious Vashj attempts.) You're doing well.
Thanks for the compliment Cheekly, much appreciated, it means a lot.
Just to clarify - Serpent Stings were mainly used when I was on the move or approaching the next target before I took my position (along with a sneaky Arcane Shot!)
Originally Posted by alienangel
Why is this surprising? The crossbow has a better speed, better stats, and higher DPS.
I'd have thought it would more than 5 DPS actually. Depending on rotation/stats it's an uprade to Bristleblitz too.
Alienangel, that's exactly my point!
I thought the increase would have been vastly more, since it is not only a better speed but has a raw weapon increase of ~10dps!
Still, a bigger question that I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on is:
Shouldn't I be able to keep up with mages and dps warriors of similar gear?
It depends on the fight. Mages can do extraordinary amounts of damage and dps during AoE situations. But normally, especially on single targets and for the overall raid, I would expect a good hunter to outdo the both mages and warriors.
I'm in some kara gear with one piece of T5 and the DST. I usually do around 1100-1200 dps in groups, and 1200-1400 raid buffed.
When you ask if you should be able to keep up, what kind of numbers are you talking about?
Gonna post this once more and see if anyone has any input.
Last night I received several items from hyjal and BT and was wanting to ask a few questions regarding them. I figured since it dropped and no one else needed it I would pick it up,[Choker of Serrated Blades], I was using the worgen claw neck peice and with that I have 122 hit. Ive punched them both into the spread sheet and was wondering if the spread sheet takes into account Armor Ignore(I may have missed whether it does or not in the spreadsheets forum). If I were to use hit food and wear the choker would it be an upgrade? I have 497 armor ignore currently and I'm not quite sure how well that increases my dps, Ive looked over different posts and havent really found anything much on armor ignore other than its great but don't go out of your way for it.
One more question I have is about a pair of shoulders I received. [Beast-tamer's Shoulders]. I got that last night and [Shoulders of the Hidden Predator] the night before. Should I just switch out the beast tamer's for BM friendly fights, or just forget about them and stick with the predator? I lose over 1% crit placing me at 27.34%. Any help is appreciated, thank you.
Gonna post this once more and see if anyone has any input.
Last night I received several items from hyjal and BT and was wanting to ask a few questions regarding them. I figured since it dropped and no one else needed it I would pick it up,[Choker of Serrated Blades], I was using the worgen claw neck peice and with that I have 122 hit. Ive punched them both into the spread sheet and was wondering if the spread sheet takes into account Armor Ignore(I may have missed whether it does or not in the spreadsheets forum). If I were to use hit food and wear the choker would it be an upgrade? I have 497 armor ignore currently and I'm not quite sure how well that increases my dps, Ive looked over different posts and havent really found anything much on armor ignore other than its great but don't go out of your way for it.
Personally, I would never drop below 140 hit rating. I can't even think about doing it.
I'd say keep your Worgen neck AND eat +hit food.
There have been multiple threads on ArP, one most notably covering the Executioner proc which outlines the theory and can be applied to any ArP discussion. As a rule of thumb, the more you have the better it gets, but becareful of itemisation and what you're sacrificing to get ArP on your items.
Also there was a post by Howitzer not too long ago referencing said thread. Do a quick search and you'll surely find it.
Perhabs someone with a bit more understanding of the sheet could import my Armory (Vallerian - EU - Azshara) into the sheet and check the results, because +30 DPS would be great...and if Bristleblitz or Legionkiller drop I really want to know which one is worth taking...
I'm in some kara gear with one piece of T5 and the DST. I usually do around 1100-1200 dps in groups, and 1200-1400 raid buffed.
When you ask if you should be able to keep up, what kind of numbers are you talking about?
First, thanks for responding. I'm in very similar gear to what you've got. 2 T4, ZA shoulders, S3 chest...Kara gear, maybe a little better, but everything is purple. I can't seem to get my dps over 850 in any fight.
Originally Posted by Teldra
What shot rotation are you using?
I use a 1:1 macro that incorporates KC. I generally don't use Arcane or any stings unless I'm on the move. I don't clip or miss that I notice.
Originally Posted by Teldra
What's your pet spec'd at?
I use either a cat or raptor depending on whether or not I need specced resistences for it. (wiithout logging in to check)they both have avoidance and (I think) the highest rank of Stamina trained. One has Natural Armor, one has a resistence school based on need. The cat has bite and claw of the highest rank but (I think) only bite is learnable by the raptor. Whatever damaging abilities each can learn, they both have the highest rank.
Originally Posted by Teldra
What's your latency?
Very good. Almost always under 200, usually hovers around 120.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong but my dps seems to be broken.
As promised, here is a WWS of my DPS on tonights FLK attempts in SSC and is well above my theoretical limit in Cheeky's spreadsheet. I'm not sure how to explain it, I always calculate with full raid buffs as I would be in the encounter.
I loaded your gear into the spreadsheet and used the WWS you provided to determine your raid buffs/debuffs. You had some strange group makeups, so I'm unsure if you had multiple BM hunters in your group or not, and if your shaman was dropping any DPS totems at all, they weren't showing up. Only his mana totems are showing up on WWS. If he wad dropping agi/str totems, or if you had a 2nd BM hunter in your group, then my results will be skewed.
I show you as being capable of 1,685 DPS. This doesn't take into account the bloodlust you got. Also, for the FLK fight in particular the adds are lvl 71, not lvl 73, so you and your pet have a better chance of hitting them. I presume they have less armor too, but that could be entirely wrong. Also, FLK has 6200 armor, but the default is 7700. If you didn't change that, then this would affect your results too.
It's very difficult to beat the DPS on the spreadsheet and any time you do so, chances are you have forgotten about buffs not modeled on the spreadsheet, ie bloodlust, drums of battle, or other changes like the mobs armor.
With that said, your DPS is solid for your gear level. Keep at it and demand a better group next time there are so many hunters in the raid. ;-)
Thanks for the compliment Cheekly, much appreciated, it means a lot.
Just to clarify - Serpent Stings were mainly used when I was on the move or approaching the next target before I took my position (along with a sneaky Arcane Shot!)
Alienangel, that's exactly my point!
I thought the increase would have been vastly more, since it is not only a better speed but has a raw weapon increase of ~10dps!
Hm, that is odd I guess. It shows up as a ~40 dps difference for me between sunfury and crossbow, both with 1:1 rotations and with 3:2, and with DST and without.
Annoyingly, the crossbow is no longer showing up as an upgrade for me over bristleblitz either, so long as i'm doing 3:2 with bristleblitz. Kind of aggravating since the badge ring still is an upgrade, and I was counting the xbow making up the hit I'm about to lose by equipping that ring.
Hm, that is odd I guess. It shows up as a ~40 dps difference for me between sunfury and crossbow, both with 1:1 rotations and with 3:2, and with DST and without.
Annoyingly, the crossbow is no longer showing up as an upgrade for me over bristleblitz either, so long as i'm doing 3:2 with bristleblitz. Kind of aggravating since the badge ring still is an upgrade, and I was counting the xbow making up the hit I'm about to lose by equipping that ring.
Hit is great, but it is possible to have combinations of gear that leave you below the hit cap and still provide higher DPS than lower tier items with more hit. Just be aware of this on those misdirects. I used to always aimed shot pull Mother Shaz when I was still wearing 4/5 T5. The first week that I put on 4/5 T6 and tried this, my aimed shot missed and she owned my face. Turns out T6 + shadow resist = about 47 hit rating at the time.
Oh I know I don't need to cap just for the sake of capping, like I said, equipping the ring and losing hit rating is still a DPS increase. But I can still feel bad at losing the symmetry of losing hit from the badge ring and gaining it back from the badge xbow though ^_^ I've been under hit cap my whole time as BM, and still aways in the best gear config accessible, and was just getting to enjoy being near cap again recently.
Just wish some combination of madness, cvos and stormrage signet would deign to drop. Could wear these daggers over HoD without losing DPS then.
I wanted to see what some of you thought, so here goes:
I used to be geared with the ebon netherscale set and three pieces of t4. 41/20, using a ravager. I had been using mana oils but didnt really use pots at all. I began to get fed up with myself. I felt like i was holding myself back, or something. I did some quick math, and decided that the best move i could make was to regem my pvp gear, redo enchants, and boost my armor ignore. Here's a link to my armory The World of Warcraft Armory , i guess what i'm getting at is what gear right now most holds me back. I'm under the assumption that it's my crossbow, or possibly my bracers, but i'm not ruling out my neck either. I plan on getting the shattered sun rep neck when i hit exalted, and am going to work on the badge crossbow as well.
Also, what would be the ideal macro to use? I currently use the standard steady/auto hitting arcane and multi when i have an opening. Also, is there a certain threshold of armor ignore that can or should be reached? I was also wondering the same thing about haste, because it doesnt seem to do too much for a given amount, at least from looking over it.
I'm sorry that i wrote such a disjointed reply, organization has never been my strong suite. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
04/03/08, 12:51 PM
