I can only speak for my self.... but as a hunter, the only macro i have used in PVP is
castsequence macro with Auto and Steady, and i have the rest of my abilities bound, this is because of the fact, that do you want a purge, then press the arcane shot button, do you want to hit 3 targets, press the multi shot button. PVP is not a stand and deliver figth, its alot of moving, which means macroes are SHIT.
the reason of the Castsequence macro is that i do not want to clip my only mana free shot, when i need to nuke.
I’m hoping to get feedback on Expose Weakness (EW) and Ferocious Inspiration (FI). Some in my guild believe that FI brings more value than EW in a raid (we have what I would consider an average raid composition). Further, related to FI some in my guild believe that it is better to have Spirit Bond over Animal Handler talents.
While I have posted explanations to these skills and talents on my guilds forum, I don’t want to influence responses so I’m not going to post any thoughts here. Could the raiding hunters on this forum briefly post their opinions on these two points??
Thanks in advance and I apologize for what may be simplistic questions.
While I don't know the exact point where Expose Weakness outweighs Ferocious Inspiration as a raid wide damage increase, I do know that a large determining factor is how many physical damage classes your raid takes. The more physical damage classes you have, the more people from the EW debuff. On the flip side, FI works for all outgoing damage whether it be physical, or magical. This means hunters get slightly more leeway as far as group composition goes. We can be thrown into caster groups and can provide said group with some synergy (3% more damage) and hopefully get something back like mana spring and heroism. You should keep in mind there are other factors involved than just FI vs EW. BM hunters will always do more damage given equal gear and skill. Also, while having one SV hunter is good, any more than one is extraneous. You can bring multiple BM hunters and not see a decrease in their individual contributions.
As far as Animal Handler vs Spirit Bond, Animal Handler is the only way a hunter has to increase their pet's chance to hit. It should be no question that if you're raiding, you should pick up AH.
Hello fellow hunters.
I have recently been reading alot of forums, to improve my gear vastly. And the overall conclusion i made, was that improving haste down to a speed of 1.7 - 1.8 was a very good idea. So i began my quest for haste gear. Unfortunately i have been very unlucky on the last 3 ZA runs - where only 1 loot i could use has dropped.
Yesterday i thougt to my self - ive heard people talk so much about cheeky's spreadsheet - so i might as well try it out. And what do i find out - haste is rated almost nothing. According to my mediocre calculation skills "~20 haste = 1 agi" worth when Cheeky is calculating DPS. So that makes my expensive made shoulders, a POS according to the spreadsheet (Yes i leveled LW in 3 days JUST because of them). In comparison Cheeky rate "10 armor penetration = 1 agi"
What to believe? I will have 150 badges for the crossbow when the forge and anvil is made. But i am going to do Za every 3 days as the only dps mail wearer (yes im lucky). So im bound to get some drops.
Therefor i need to know wether or not to take the "Pauldrons of Primal Fury" from Nalorakk. And/or what other gear that might drop.
On a side note - would it be wise to use 2xdagger of bad mojo insted of my vengeful axe? (The dagger is the 1 drop i got on 3 runs)
Thank You very much in advance if you had the time and patience to help me.
Ninetales (YES its stolen from Pokemon, not a spelling error :P)
Keep the Shoulders of Lighting Reflexes. They are very good.
Even if haste is counted as badly, the other stats are pure gold at ZA level. If I put Primal Fury on in my spreadsheet I lose almost 20 DPS.
And remember, the more stats yo gain the more value haste gives you. It always stacks as it is a percentage based upgrade that scales with both crit and AP. Sadly not our pets very much (other than providing a slight increase in GftT procs).
I’m hoping to get feedback on Expose Weakness (EW) and Ferocious Inspiration (FI). Some in my guild believe that FI brings more value than EW in a raid (we have what I would consider an average raid composition). Further, related to FI some in my guild believe that it is better to have Spirit Bond over Animal Handler talents.
While I have posted explanations to these skills and talents on my guilds forum, I don’t want to influence responses so I’m not going to post any thoughts here. Could the raiding hunters on this forum briefly post their opinions on these two points??
Thanks in advance and I apologize for what may be simplistic questions.
Also, in addition to what's been said, keep in mind that EW affects all physical DPS in the raid while FI only affects the hunter's group.
Using our typical raid group, I give 8-9 people (and a pet or two) an average of ~240 AP throughout a fight. To me, this seems pretty comparable to a 3% damage increase for 4-5 people.
Hello fellow hunters.
Yesterday i thougt to my self - ive heard people talk so much about cheeky's spreadsheet - so i might as well try it out. And what do i find out - haste is rated almost nothing. According to my mediocre calculation skills "~20 haste = 1 agi" worth when Cheeky is calculating DPS. So that makes my expensive made shoulders, a POS according to the spreadsheet (Yes i leveled LW in 3 days JUST because of them). In comparison Cheeky rate "10 armor penetration = 1 agi"
On a side note - would it be wise to use 2xdagger of bad mojo insted of my vengeful axe? (The dagger is the 1 drop i got on 3 runs)
Ninetales (YES its stolen from Pokemon, not a spelling error :P)
My understanding is that the value of Haste will depend on your other gear entirely. Also the value of almost any piece of gear will be relative. Some pieces like the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes break that mold.
So in Cheeky's sheet, 20 haste = 1 agility for you at the moment. For me my first 37 haste was closer to 2.5:1. But once i hit 70 haste, it becomes a dps decrease.
3 weeks ago with my other gear, 2x Daggers of Bad Mojo =2 dps loss vs my vengeful axe (I needed the hit) Now they are actually a 9 dps upgrade due to me being over hit cap.
So collect 'top gear' that you see here like the Pauldrons and the daggers so you can model them to have the maximum dps as a whole. You can rate piece by piece, but sometimes any given piece has more value than it's raw rating because it allows you to gem differently or swap out other items.
Ive been the standard BM spec for awhile now. Well recently, some of the other hunters have rerolled or stopped playing. Now Im the hunter misdirecting the mage to the mage tank for Council (yes we do it a little different than the 'accepted' fight). Unfortunately 35yds is too close when pulling, so Ive had to respec to include hawkeye.
Has anyone created a max DPS spec that includes Hawkeye (including what type of shot rotation used)? Nothing Ive come up with has gotten the DPS anywhere near to my 3:2 BM spec.
Ive been the standard BM spec for awhile now. Well recently, some of the other hunters have rerolled or stopped playing. Now Im the hunter misdirecting the mage to the mage tank for Council (yes we do it a little different than the 'accepted' fight). Unfortunately 35yds is too close when pulling, so Ive had to respec to include hawkeye.
Has anyone created a max DPS spec that includes Hawkeye (including what type of shot rotation used)? Nothing Ive come up with has gotten the DPS anywhere near to my 3:2 BM spec.
Um, run into range once the mage starts casting, to misdirect? You don't need to respec just so you can start the pull with a misdirect.
So bear with me here, I've got a couple questions about how attack speed works with regards to a BM hunter:
So, like many other hunters who are cursed with drops, I'm planning to obtain the bow from badges just as soon as Malfurion completes the anvil. My current weapon is the BM classic Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle, the 2.7 attack speed is ideal as i understand it because it gets me as close to an attack speed of 1.99 as possible, without exceeding it. However, the badge crossbow has an attack speed of 2.8, giving me a final attack speed of 2.03. In order to counterbalance this, I intend to pick up some of the new haste gear. My question, therefore is this: Which piece of haste gear would be most advantageous in terms of shot rotation?
Vanir's Right Fist: [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality]
21 haste rating, and therefore reduces my attack speed to 2.00 (very close to what I have been led to believe is ideal for a 1:1 shot rotation)
or
The Blade of Harbingers: [The Blade of Harbingers]
53 haste rating, and therefore reduces my attack speed to 1.96( identical to the wolfslayer's attack speed after talents)
In answering this, please note that my offhand in the former case would likely be a dagger of bad mojo.
The second half of this question is, Should I even bother with the weapon haste or would I be better off "forcing" an occasional arcane shot into my rotation? If I did that I would spend the badges to replace T4 pants, and likely obtain the new physical dmg badge ring.
Please let me know what you folks think and thanks for your time!
Also, in addition to what's been said, keep in mind that EW affects all physical DPS in the raid while FI only affects the hunter's group.
Using our typical raid group, I give 8-9 people (and a pet or two) an average of ~240 AP throughout a fight. To me, this seems pretty comparable to a 3% damage increase for 4-5 people.
All true, and forgive me for being a Johnny-Come-Lately to this argument, however what cannot be forgotten is that you do fewer dps when specced into the survival tree. In my survival gear I have 1214 agility fully raid-buffed. However, when one adds in the FI stacks, and the personal increase in DPS that comes from the BM spec, I've found it's not necessarily worth being specced survival.
Bear in mind, of those 8-9 people, 3 of them (occasionally more) are likely to be tanks.
Survival, I'd argue, is only truly worth it, if your raid has a sizable number of highly geared physical damage dealers. I personally lose around 400 dps when I'm survival, assuming I'm in a group of damage dealers who can sustain a very modest 1k dps, you might consider the loss of my FI stack an additional 30dps/player. That's a total dps loss of around 520. The question you need to answer, is as follows. Does net raid dps go up or down?
All true, and forgive me for being a Johnny-Come-Lately to this argument, however what cannot be forgotten is that you do fewer dps when specced into the survival tree. In my survival gear I have 1214 agility fully raid-buffed. However, when one adds in the FI stacks, and the personal increase in DPS that comes from the BM spec, I've found it's not necessarily worth being specced survival.
Bear in mind, of those 8-9 people, 3 of them (occasionally more) are likely to be tanks.
Survival, I'd argue, is only truly worth it, if your raid has a sizable number of highly geared physical damage dealers. I personally lose around 400 dps when I'm survival, assuming I'm in a group of damage dealers who can sustain a very modest 1k dps, you might consider the loss of my FI stack an additional 30dps/player. That's a total dps loss of around 520. The question you need to answer, is as follows. Does net raid dps go up or down?
I've noticed that in my own guild, and we'll probably kill Brutallus tonight. I wouldn't say it's so much related to the quality of your physical dps as much as the number of them. I did the math, and I'd need to see ~70 dps improvement from each other physical dps in the raid for survival to be worth it, and none of them said it would be anything close.
According to my mediocre calculation skills "~20 haste = 1 agi" worth when Cheeky is calculating DPS.
No, it's much closer to 2 haste ~= 1 agi. You're doing something wrong. Make sure you push the Calc Attributes button. Make sure the shot rotation in the spreadsheet is the correct one. (I doubt you're at the haste "cap.")
So bear with me here, I've got a couple questions about how attack speed works with regards to a BM hunter:
So, like many other hunters who are cursed with drops, I'm planning to obtain the bow from badges just as soon as Malfurion completes the anvil. My current weapon is the BM classic Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle, the 2.7 attack speed is ideal as i understand it because it gets me as close to an attack speed of 1.99 as possible, without exceeding it. However, the badge crossbow has an attack speed of 2.8, giving me a final attack speed of 2.03. In order to counterbalance this, I intend to pick up some of the new haste gear. My question, therefore is this: Which piece of haste gear would be most advantageous in terms of shot rotation?
Vanir's Right Fist: [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality]
21 haste rating, and therefore reduces my attack speed to 2.00 (very close to what I have been led to believe is ideal for a 1:1 shot rotation)
or
The Blade of Harbingers: [The Blade of Harbingers]
53 haste rating, and therefore reduces my attack speed to 1.96( identical to the wolfslayer's attack speed after talents)
In answering this, please note that my offhand in the former case would likely be a dagger of bad mojo.
The second half of this question is, Should I even bother with the weapon haste or would I be better off "forcing" an occasional arcane shot into my rotation? If I did that I would spend the badges to replace T4 pants, and likely obtain the new physical dmg badge ring.
Please let me know what you folks think and thanks for your time!
The idea is good if you don't gimp your other stats. Simple as that.
2.7 speed weapons aren't the best for 1:1, they are best of the easily obtainable weapons for that. A better speed is 2.6 which ends up at 1.88 as BM.
The 2.0 speed thing has nothing to do with nothing, it is the result of improper attention to what happens. Basically the thought behind it is "Steady Shot = 1.5 second cast, Autoshot = 0.5 second cast, combined they give 2.0 seconds." Well as I'm sure you have noticed, there is in fact a little hangtime when you fire Steady until Auto fires, and that during Quick Shots you string them much tighter together. That's because Steady Shot is also benefitting from the inherent BM haste. It's actual cast is 1.09 seconds. That means in theory that autoshot could be 1.59.
But testing has shown that Autoshot doesn't always need the 0.5 seconds to cast, if just being cast before the previous cast is finished. It is terribly confusing to me personally.
The point is, don't chase around for a speed you don't need. However, it must be said that a 2.8 speed weapon can soak up a fair bit more passive haste before it gets clippy during Quick Shots. Hence the crossbow stacks better with haste than WSR.
What's going on with Hunter's Mark overwriting/refreshing now? According to the 2.4 patch notes
Hunter’s Mark: Hunters with Improved Hunter’s Mark will now properly overwrite Hunter’s Mark cast by Hunters without the talent.
I specced 5/5 IHM yesterday (for my new raiding guild with steady supply of spriests), and had no trouble overwriting the non-improved marks. However, the non-IHM hunters were overwriting mine as well.
This is happening whether or not the mark gets charges from shots. I've not tested to see if accumulated charges from shots are being lost due to overwriting, or if they are retained. Has this been tested?
My guess is that Blizzard broke something they consider to be too much effort to fix. This is the first time you are able to refresh imp HM with untalented one. They say that HM does not lose the charges with the "new version".
This is working correctly, once improved hunter's mark is on a target any Hunter's mark (improved or not) will refresh the duration of the existing mark (not overwrite it).
The buff does not change in any way just the duration remaining.
I'm finding it rather hard to pin-down the exact nature of your new 2.4 mana issues. While it's clear your passive regen has gone down due to the int-spi synergy I don't see how exactly it should differ from pre-2.4 given that you're permanently casting and thus OO5SR.
Either way, the specifics of the mechanic and it's subsequent change are not what I'm inquiring about. What I'm trying to establish, from a raid-group setup, is what spec of hunter have what kind of weakness vis. mana regeneration and how much this impacts the raid.
Given the three types of hunter, which one loses the most DPS from not having a resto-shaman, an SP and JoW. Which one can dump excess mana generated (if there is any) into extra DPS and how much would that be? Would it be best if I placed a resto-shaman with an Agi totem and mana spring/tide with said groups or would you prefer a sole SP? Finally, how much DPS loss do you accrue given either spec and a worst-case-scenario group where you get neither shaman nor SP, nor JoW?
The raid I have to set-up is quite cloth heavy and I generally prefer to hand SPs over to a (non-pala, non-tree) healer group and a mage/lock/Ele-shaman group, netting "leftover" dps, spare tanks and holy palas/trees in a sole group with practically no party-buffing. A recent poster in the Mage Help thread noted his hunters were gaining SP affections over himself (which given his arcane manawhore spec I should tend to think is a net RDPS loss) made me think, what exactly is the loss/gain ratio of dropping eg. a warlock's SP for a hunter's. The effects of regen to the mage class are well known to me, and I have a rather clear impression of the LT/SB ratio issues locks have, but how regen affects hunters is quite a mystery and I'd like it if you could shed some light in a clear, dumbass-proof way.
Well, the theory is that Hunters shouldn't los any regen during Raids.
However, personally I have seen a change. I need to chuck Fel Mana from 5k mana on every CD, as well as Drums of Restoration. And still I risk going OOM despite having Elixir of Mageblood and Manaoil on my weapon. It wasn't like that before.
That is in a 'no mana return' scenario.
It feels horrible to see the mana vanish like that and never using any of the heavy shots or any other heavy mana ability. However it should be noted that with something as simple as a mana totem I will be fine for a very good while, and with JoW I doubt it will ever become an issue.
Spriests are not needed for Hunters, but a little something in one way or another is indeed very much welcome.
Past few days I've been trying to get a solid number on how much dps my survival spec brings to the raid beyond what I see on Recount. I remember reading something general on the issue, posted by Lactose, but I can't remember where it was. As most could guess I'm mostly interested because of Brutallus, and sadly I lack a WWS for our one kill so far.
I was bouncing up and down between 1550-1700 dps on our longer tries, with one more hunter and 5 melee dps in the raid. I'm thinking that's a 400ish dps loss from me not being BM, considering group setups and such, and lately when reading the survival thread here on EJ some hunters make it sound as if that amount of DPS isn't made up for by Expose Weakness. The melee group is always 3 rogues, 1 enhance, and 1 retribution.
Question is basically what amount of raw dps these 3 classes each gain from 300ish attack power, taking into consideration that they all have pretty much end-game BT/MH gear.
Took my hunter to SSC last night for the first time, I got put in the "leftover" group I guess. Ret pally, rogue, rogue, MS warrior, and me. Lovely. The other hunter in the raid, the one with 20 hit rating? Yeah, he got the shadow priest. Le sigh.
Two questions from the two fights I did get to do. On Lurker, I positioned my pet where all of the melee DPS was standing, while I went off and chilled on my little platform. My pet (stay, passive) died the second Lurker popped out of the water. Why?
Second, we did Leotheras. I could not for the life of me figure out why my pet was dying to WW when he was nowhere near it, until I got hit with it and learned that it had a nasty dot attached. What do most hunters do with their pets on this fight? Just pull it out waaaaay early so it doesn't get WWed? I got killed by the other ranged classes on this fight :-/
Originally Posted by Bula
"They were bad, stop trying to figure out why bad players do bad things."
What's going on with Hunter's Mark overwriting/refreshing now? According to the 2.4 patch notes
I specced 5/5 IHM yesterday (for my new raiding guild with steady supply of spriests), and had no trouble overwriting the non-improved marks. However, the non-IHM hunters were overwriting mine as well.
This is happening whether or not the mark gets charges from shots. I've not tested to see if accumulated charges from shots are being lost due to overwriting, or if they are retained. Has this been tested?
It isn't being "overwritten" by lesser marks. The improved is being refreshed (even by non-improved).
Two questions from the two fights I did get to do. On Lurker, I positioned my pet where all of the melee DPS was standing, while I went off and chilled on my little platform. My pet (stay, passive) died the second Lurker popped out of the water. Why?
Lurker is a buggy fight for pets, but I've never seen that. I'm just happy we don't have to do him anymore.
Originally Posted by Pixen
Second, we did Leotheras. I could not for the life of me figure out why my pet was dying to WW when he was nowhere near it, until I got hit with it and learned that it had a nasty dot attached. What do most hunters do with their pets on this fight? Just pull it out waaaaay early so it doesn't get WWed? I got killed by the other ranged classes on this fight :-/
Um use a raid warning and pull him out. Or even safer, don't bother sending him except in demon phase or after 15%.
Two questions from the two fights I did get to do. On Lurker, I positioned my pet where all of the melee DPS was standing, while I went off and chilled on my little platform. My pet (stay, passive) died the second Lurker popped out of the water. Why?
You pet died because he either took two whirlwinds in a row or while attacking Lurker he was standing in the water taking the damage ticks.
I found the best place to put my pet on stay is directly across from the platform you jump down next to (opposite platform from the triangle one with the lake in the middle of it). With avoidance pet talent whirlwinds should only be doing damage every other time. Two piece tier 5 really makes this fight easy for hunters otherwise you might need a mend pet after the whirlwind that hits your pet. Just make sure the pet isn't standing in the water and attacking.
04/09/08, 3:49 AM
