You pet died because he either took two whirlwinds in a row or while attacking Lurker he was standing in the water taking the damage ticks.
My pet was standing in the middle of the platform on stay since buffing started. He didn't move. Lurker got fished up, I marked him, and sent me pet to attack, but the pet was already dead. Before I had given him any commands at all, after he'd been sitting in one spot for about 5 minutes. The way it happened I figured it had to be some kind of bug, but I won't be able to try and repeat it until next week.
@Cranch: Pet is always on passive. Only thing I can think of is that I *may* have told the pet to attack before the tank engaged, though it's very unlikely, and I couldn't very well check the combat log mid fight (and it was too long to check after).
I'm going to chalk this one up to bad luck and/or inadvertent stupidity. We'll see what happens next time.
Last edited by Pixen : 04/10/08 at 12:04 PM.
Originally Posted by Bula
"They were bad, stop trying to figure out why bad players do bad things."
On Lurker, I positioned my pet where all of the melee DPS was standing, while I went off and chilled on my little platform. My pet (stay, passive) died the second Lurker popped out of the water. Why?
That happens when your pet gets the initial aggro on Lurker (i.e., you told your pet to attack while Lurker was flying out of the water or it's on aggressive.) Use your combatlog to answer questions like this!
How directly do Cheeky's spreadsheet DPS numbers translate into actual in-game DPS? I show myself at about 1172 dps with standard buffs on a mob (higher with Sunders on it ofc) but at our last Gruuls and Mags raids i was only about 900. For that matter, on no fights (Kara, ZA, Gruul, Mag) am I able to get that number. Assuming 5 sunders I should be close to 1350dps - again I rarely see anything above 900.
I am using Recount to parse my personal dps. Pets are merged (as far as I can tell).
I am mousewheel spamming a 3:2 macro with IAofH on at all times. SP group normally.
Am I missing something or have I not fought the boss these numbers actually work out on? I'm gonna go ahead and assume I am doing something wrong.
Recount seems a little buggy on pets since 2.4: Generally it is me and a destro warlock running the same version, both with "Merge Pets" enabled. In my Recount window, my pet is listed with my data (I don't know if my pet is counting towards my DPS), however sometimes when the information is reported to chat, my pet is listed as a separate actor (and adding his DPS to mine gives me higher DPS than my 'Merged Pet' DPS). I don't think this would be due to other players not having 'Merge Pets' enabled, either (unless they are the ones writing it to chat):
-- Sync self
Recount:SendCommMessage("RECOUNT",serialdata,"WHISPER",target)
-- Sync pets
for i=1,#serialpetdata do
Recount:SendCommMessage("RECOUNT",serialpetdata[i],"WHISPER",target)
end
Suggests that Recount will honor every player's pet settings.
How directly do Cheeky's spreadsheet DPS numbers translate into actual in-game DPS? I show myself at about 1172 dps with standard buffs on a mob (higher with Sunders on it ofc) but at our last Gruuls and Mags raids i was only about 900. For that matter, on no fights (Kara, ZA, Gruul, Mag) am I able to get that number. Assuming 5 sunders I should be close to 1350dps - again I rarely see anything above 900.
I am using Recount to parse my personal dps. Pets are merged (as far as I can tell).
I am mousewheel spamming a 3:2 macro with IAofH on at all times. SP group normally.
Am I missing something or have I not fought the boss these numbers actually work out on? I'm gonna go ahead and assume I am doing something wrong.
Cheeky's spreadsheet accounts for 100% uptime of the debuffs you put into it, and 100% uptime on 100% optimally performed shot rotations. This is very rarely the case (shatter, infernals, switching targets, feigning, moving pet due to damage, etc), and can account in part for the discrepancy you're seeing. That, and Cheeky's sheet will calculate the average dps you will do under these conditions based on roll probabilities. It is entirely possible to do significantly higher or significantly lower than your projected dps, based on random luck alone.
Originally Posted by Bula
"They were bad, stop trying to figure out why bad players do bad things."
Dear mana-using bretheren:
Given the three types of hunter, which one loses the most DPS from not having a resto-shaman, an SP and JoW. Which one can dump excess mana generated (if there is any) into extra DPS and how much would that be? Would it be best if I placed a resto-shaman with an Agi totem and mana spring/tide with said groups or would you prefer a sole SP? Finally, how much DPS loss do you accrue given either spec and a worst-case-scenario group where you get neither shaman nor SP, nor JoW?
MM hunters will lose the most DPS from mana starvation. They basically have only one viable means of DPS, which is "use everything you have, as often as you can". Mana potions alone are insufficient (depending on the spriest, an spriest alone might be insufficient too). Note that using mana potions locks them out from using Haste potions though, which can be a large boost to their dps.
Survival hunters, depending on gear, as far as I can tell use as much mana as MM if they have it to spare, but can also get by without, thanks to no talent points invested in not using aspect of the viper, and no talent points invested in spamming our most expensive shot. They also have a decent mana regen on crit talent to tide them over between potion cooldowns. Note that using mana potions locks them out from using Haste potions though, which can be a large boost to their dps.
BM hunters, again depending on gear, have the most to gain from excess mana, in that they usually do a relatively mana efficient rotation, while having the option to supplement it with either more shots or more expensive shots if they find they have extra mana. Spamming fel mana potions will generally get me through most fights doing probably 90% of potential DPS (assuming pet doesn't die, in which case the ressing will bone me for the rest of the fight with mana help), using only super mana pots will have me switching to probably 60% dps if I want to avoid going oom. I personally don't think haste potions are terribly useful as BM with multiple haste procs, so don't mind using mana potions on cooldown with this spec. If I have an spriest and threat is solid enough to go all out, it'll generally be using super mana pots on top of the VT regen.
All specs should see noticeably DPS gains from 100% JoW or spriest (especially with the free pet healing thrown in).
Since you mention shamans, getting a mana spring + mana tide I find is a decent substitute for spriest when using moderate DPS rotations. The biggest thing about not giving your hunter a shaman though is that it implies you're not giving him a heroism. Heroism is a massive buff for BM and Survival DPS, probably for MM too. If faced with either getting a heroism and being conservative on mana, or getting infinite mana but no heroism, I'd generally chose the former.
Recount seems a little buggy on pets since 2.4: Generally it is me and a destro warlock running the same version, both with "Merge Pets" enabled. In my Recount window, my pet is listed with my data (I don't know if my pet is counting towards my DPS), however sometimes when the information is reported to chat, my pet is listed as a separate actor (and adding his DPS to mine gives me higher DPS than my 'Merged Pet' DPS). I don't think this would be due to other players not having 'Merge Pets' enabled, either (unless they are the ones writing it to chat):
-- Sync self
Recount:SendCommMessage("RECOUNT",serialdata,"WHISPER",target)
-- Sync pets
for i=1,#serialpetdata do
Recount:SendCommMessage("RECOUNT",serialpetdata[i],"WHISPER",target)
end
Suggests that Recount will honor every player's pet settings.
Not 100% sure if this is what you're talking about, but there's two options in Recount. One to collect data for pets and merge it, and another list of options on what actors to show on the Recount window. Uncheck the box under show: pets, but leave the check under data for pets, and it should not show your damge w/pet, while ALSO listing your pet seperate.
I have heard different things from several other hunters, but:
Should I or should i not use bite on my ravager? it has cobra reflexes/ gore 9 on it, and I am a BM hunter, with 35-39 crit raid buffed.
I got the [Tsunami Talisman] today what i am wondering is wether i should aim for DST? and if i got it would i replace the Talisman or the [Berserker's Call]
I have heard different things from several other hunters, but:
Should I or should i not use bite on my ravager? it has cobra reflexes/ gore 9 on it, and I am a BM hunter, with 35-39 crit raid buffed.
Bite has a higher average damage and a higher damage per focus than gore. When you're maximizing dps, you should use it.
Last edited by Pixen : 04/11/08 at 9:22 AM.
Originally Posted by Bula
"They were bad, stop trying to figure out why bad players do bad things."
Ok, I'm an MM hunter and I was helping a friend do gruul's mag's and lurker (failed attempt at lurker).
I was wondering if anyone could help me find out why my overall DPS is so low. When I look over other hunter DPS charts for Mag's or Gruul's I see insane numbers.
Granted some of my shots were mistakes, like the one Silencing shot >.>
I would post a link to my armory but all it would show is my PvP gear.
Basic stats are (these stats are unbuffed)
2269RAP
26.88% Crit
140 Hit
Shot Rotation is asa follows: Start fight off with Aimed Shot, Auto, Steady, Arcane, Auto, Steady, Auto, Multi, Auto rinse repeat.
Note: Hunter's mark is up. Also, Kings, AI, Major Agi pot and Agi food are the buffs.
Ok, I'm an MM hunter and I was helping a friend do gruul's mag's and lurker (failed attempt at lurker).
I was wondering if anyone could help me find out why my overall DPS is so low. When I look over other hunter DPS charts for Mag's or Gruul's I see insane numbers.
Granted some of my shots were mistakes, like the one Silencing shot >.>
I would post a link to my armory but all it would show is my PvP gear.
Basic stats are (these stats are unbuffed)
2269RAP
26.88% Crit
140 Hit
Shot Rotation is asa follows: Start fight off with Aimed Shot, Auto, Steady, Arcane, Auto, Steady, Auto, Multi, Auto rinse repeat.
Note: Hunter's mark is up. Also, Kings, AI, Major Agi pot and Agi food are the buffs.
If anyone has an opinions as to how I can increase my overall DPS, I'd be very greatfull
A few things stand out, but more from a BM perspective. Your pet is only doing 12% of your overall damage and your use of aimed shot. I've got somewhat equivalent equipment, but as a BM I usually do 1100-1400 on Gruul and Lurker (my pet does a full 1/3 of this). You might love MM, but the way the game mechanics work right now, BM is going to be the highest dps at your level of gear and progression.
A few things stand out, but more from a BM perspective. Your pet is only doing 12% of your overall damage and your use of aimed shot. I've got somewhat equivalent equipment, but as a BM I usually do 1100-1400 on Gruul and Lurker (my pet does a full 1/3 of this). You might love MM, but the way the game mechanics work right now, BM is going to be the highest dps at your level of gear and progression.
I'm pretty much MH geared. Most of my gear, however, is optimised for Survival. The need for a Surv hunter on my server isn't that great, so I respec'd MM for a much higher DPS and Dmg doing role.
Also, another point I should make. I don't know how a Raid BM spec works. Sure I lvl'd BM and was BM pretty much the entire lifespan of my hunter, but as for BM rading, I'm clueless. (I'm going to take a look at the BM thread to see if I can work that out myself instead of being told )
I switched to BM about 3 months ago. I went from a consistant 7 or 8 on the dm to consistant number 1 or 2. I do around 1200 to 1400 dps normally. I have mostly ssc/tk gear. I don't think i'll go back to MM until i get T6 or better.
Yet again I have to come to these forums, asking for macro assistance. I recently specced back to BM, and I've been having some trouble fitting kill command into my steady shot button.
I'm well aware that there's macros I can spam 20 times a second and get a close to perfect rotation with, however I'm not very fond of these, as in my opinion timing the shots is half the fun.
Neither of the two have worked, i.e kill command haven't been used at all. Is there any way to combine steady and kill command into one macro without including /cast !auto shot, or are my only options either to succumb to the spam macro or manually click on Kill Command whenever it's up?
I'm in need of some help on Brutallus. We killed him for the first time last week, then beat the enrage timer by a decent bit on a one-shot this week, so our overall DPS isn't hurting. However, our GM is pushing the hunters to try to bring it higher. I know what I'm capable of, but right now, I'm serving as warlock support with this group set-up: Me, 3 warlocks, 1 ele shammy. Obviously I have to pop Fel Manas constantly and if you look at the Autoshot percentage, you should be able to tell that I got painfully low and had to put up Viper for at least thirty seconds. Our high number of caster DPS classes makes sense to buff them, but I am frustrated that I can't seem to do anything to bring my DPS up. I use the generic 3:2 macro, modified for LB.
As far as gear goes, I am torn between using Bloodlust and Madness, or Swiftness and Madness. While we were learning, I tried swapping off the trinkets and noticed no discernable difference on Recount or WWS. I realized that I logged out with my fishing pole, I normally use HoD with, of course, 35 Agi. Also, I have Twinblade of the Phoenix, which I was using until I picked up my new haste neck. The anvil has not been finished on our server yet...25% yesterday...and we've been boned on the T6 bows. I also have Legionkiller, but the crit from Serpent Spine seems to be making it a smidge better.
We are using a lot of things to lower Brutallus' armor, besides an SV hunter. Would it be worth trying my cat out instead of my WS to see if that increases DPS? My pet DPS did go up a couple of months ago when I finally picked up my WS.
I'm frustrated and while I don't want to blame the difference in DPS between myself and the top hunters our GM keeps talking about on stacked groups and gear, I can't help it, as when I look at WWS, that seems to be the only core difference.
Forgive the commentary from someone who hasn't killed Kalecgos yet, but having looked at a fair few WWS parses of Brutallus, my suggestions would be:
Tell your raid leader to get a ret pally or even a prot pally to keep JoW up
or
Get two more BM hunters, stick all 3 in a group with a feral tank and a resto shaman dropping GoA + Mana Spring + Tide
or
Get get yourself thrown into the group with the mages and shadowpriest - you'd buff their damage about as well as you buff the warlock's damage, you'd also buff the shadow priest's mana regenned to the whole party, and you'd buff your own damage a lot.
Failing one of the above 3 things, I think you're pretty much boned for mana.
I'm in need of some help on Brutallus. We killed him for the first time last week, then beat the enrage timer by a decent bit on a one-shot this week, so our overall DPS isn't hurting. However, our GM is pushing the hunters to try to bring it higher. I know what I'm capable of, but right now, I'm serving as warlock support with this group set-up: Me, 3 warlocks, 1 ele shammy. Obviously I have to pop Fel Manas constantly and if you look at the Autoshot percentage, you should be able to tell that I got painfully low and had to put up Viper for at least thirty seconds. Our high number of caster DPS classes makes sense to buff them, but I am frustrated that I can't seem to do anything to bring my DPS up. I use the generic 3:2 macro, modified for LB.
As far as gear goes, I am torn between using Bloodlust and Madness, or Swiftness and Madness. While we were learning, I tried swapping off the trinkets and noticed no discernable difference on Recount or WWS. I realized that I logged out with my fishing pole, I normally use HoD with, of course, 35 Agi. Also, I have Twinblade of the Phoenix, which I was using until I picked up my new haste neck. The anvil has not been finished on our server yet...25% yesterday...and we've been boned on the T6 bows. I also have Legionkiller, but the crit from Serpent Spine seems to be making it a smidge better.
We are using a lot of things to lower Brutallus' armor, besides an SV hunter. Would it be worth trying my cat out instead of my WS to see if that increases DPS? My pet DPS did go up a couple of months ago when I finally picked up my WS.
I'm frustrated and while I don't want to blame the difference in DPS between myself and the top hunters our GM keeps talking about on stacked groups and gear, I can't help it, as when I look at WWS, that seems to be the only core difference.
Hunters have a lot to gain from decent group setup.
Being in the caster group basically buffs their damage, and you get very little in return.
A lot of the top parses, ours included, run a ret paladin for constant JoW which basically means mana is a non-issue for hunters. It's pretty much impossible to run out, not counting extreme RNG luck - and therefore freeing up the pot timer for haste pots instead.
An optimal hunter group would look something like:
BM
BM
MS/Fury warrior
Enhancement Shaman
Feral Druid
Other than that, your damage/shot seems a little low. You may want to consider running one SV, one BM if one of you has the gear to support that. Gearwise, you seem okay - although a Dory's Embrace would probably be nice, if you have the badges lying around. You're also a bit overloaded on hit.
Otherwise, barring a terrible rotation, the main thing buffing a hunter's damage is group setup - esp. BM since the pets have a lot to gain from "melee" buffs (UR/BS/SoE).
And I was wondering, given my current 2.07 speed, if I would be hurting myself by going to the new badge xbow given that I have DST and use haste pots fairly often. I have read that it's possible to go "too fast" using this macro and I've also read that as your haste increases, this macro will work out to a 1:1 rotation in bursts. Which one is true? I don't have access to Cheeky's spreadsheet at the moment, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't modeled this macro yet. Thanks in advance.
I'm a Beastmaster, mostly raiding Karazhan, first Gruul kill last week, overall progress is rather slow. After buying Bloodlust Brooch and Dory's Embrace for badges, I now have around 130 badges again. Yesterday, the new badge vendor opened and now I wonder what to buy.
During the advent of 2.4 I was rather sure that it'd be the crossbow. But now I finally did some spreadsheet work and was surprised that the crossbow would add only ~10 DPS in my current gear setup. Apparently, I lack quite some haste to even out the advantage in speed on the Wolfslayer rifle. Since I play dwarf, I'd lose 1% free crit also.
According to the spreadsheet, it would be more benefiting dps wise to buy the pants (which I could do right now) and the ring later. I heard the ring was "best in slot for BMs" - any opinions on that?
Also the only item with +haste I own is the MgT chest on normal difficulty, so I wouldn't gain a lot of haste if I bought the new one.
Another possibility would be 2h axe + crossbow. But this would present the problem of over 150 more badges to go while not gaining a lot of dps to help my raid here and now.
Another issue are shot rotations.
Currently I use a 1:1 castsequence macro because it's easy to manage and delivers rather good dps. Cheeky's Spreadsheet agrees to that.
Now I feel I'm wasting some time when quick shots aren't up. Normal attack speed is 1,93, with quick shots it's 1,70 which seems to be very good for a 1:1
Could I try a steady shot spam while quick shots is not up? I have something like this in mind:
I think it'll have to be something spammable, since I am raid lead too and have to watch at least 5 of my 9 mates in case they are standing in some void zone again. Therefore, staring on Quartz all the time won't do.
I don't want to sound like a whiner or someone who wants other people to do his work but I've simply come to an end with my wits.
Armory Profile - yes, I know, green sockets are bad, they'll be fixed (8 agi and agi/stam for blues) before the next raid.
Also aldor rep for shoulder enchant and neckpiece proc is on the list.
I see that I logged out in my mighty Shattrath item set. Currently I use [Drape of the Dark Reavers] and [Hourglass of the Unraveller]
I appreciate the responses from both alienangel and selece. I'll try to address things as linearly as I can. In summary, what I got from both of you is that I'm pretty much boned in our current layout. I had multiple attempts where I couldn't even pull much past 1600 DPS, whereas on things in BT and Hyjal, I can push, if not break, 2k.
There have been two of us (hunters) in for both Brut learning and the two kills so far. The two groups look like:
BM, SPriest, Mage, Mage, Resto Shaman
BM (me), Warlock, Warlock, Warlock, Ele Shaman
I was in the Spriest group before, then got swapped after the other hunter, who is usually SV, when to BM. I had dropped Eff. for IHM for our rogues before being swapped out of the group. Now I'm stuck without Eff and without an spriest. We don't run with a ret pally, and I haven't truly had JoW kept up since killing Nef pre-BC. =^(
We used to have three consistent hunters in total, myself and another BM, then the SV who recently went into BM. The other BM was one of the two to actually get Archi's bow.
I and the other active hunter in-guild are both painfully aware of how low our shot damage looks. We've been watching as many hunter PoV vids for Sunwell bosses as we can, and all of these hunters have Black Bow or Bristleblitz and are getting much larger numbers than we are with our Serpent Spines.
I am hit-heavy with Choker of Endless Nightmares and HoD, however, I had Choker and Twinblade on for the kill, which actually put me at 140. I'm hoping to be able to start swapping some Glinting gems out for 10 crit this coming week, I just need to double-check my desired layouts in Cheeky's. As far as Dory's is concerned, I'm saving the badges for (argh) the xbow and a ring. I got sick of trying to gouge my eyes out doing PuG heroics, so I'm not in any kind of surplus.
What should i do first, I run Kara, Gruul's and ZA once a week with my guild. I would rather get the GLoves and Leggings and wait for a better Ranged weapon from Kara ( were uptill Dragon Hawk in ZA )
Plz advise - Anvil is at 99% as i type this.
* Edit *
I am Currently BM - Once i do hit 700 agi UB ( without LR ) and were in SSC and TK/ i want to Respec to Survival.
04/10/08, 10:37 AM
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