Yeah, it's random, and yeah, no one can really get a large enough sample to be statistically significant, but one thing I've begin to notice is that the chance of resist is higher in Illidan phase 2, Illidari Council, and other fights with more than one mob (especially more than one boss-level mob). This, of course, makes sense, since (presumably) each mob has a chance to resist, and if any resist, you fail with them all. Quite frustrating, but if you get Salv or Tranquil Air (even just for the first minute or so til you get a successful FD), and, more importantly, feign every time the CD is up until you get a success, then you generally will be fine.
Actually I'm not a 100% sure, but I thought, that this was changed a few major patches ago.
The whole feign death mechanism was changed to a partial resist. This means, that you may feign death with 4 of 5 mobs and only for the fifth mob your FD resists.
For example on a Kael'Thas-Fight during phase 4 and 5 the phoenix may resist your feign death, but Kael'Thas won't. You'll get a aggro-reset for him, but not for the phoenix.
This is, as stated above, not a 100% sure.
I please someone to correct or verify me.
I’ve decided its time for me to seek advice from those of you who are really good at picking apart a toon, spec, shot rotation, etc. Ive been reading these forums for ages and respect this communities advice.
So I used haste potions when able and did my best to time my cool downs. Mana was not an issue tonight and on many fights recently it has not been an issue either. Anyhow, if someone has some time to give me some heads up as to what I can do to perform better I would appreciate it.
Personally I feel I should be performing considerably better then I am currently and I’m just not seeing why.
-RD-
Edited - I forgot to mention i used to use a /cast macro and have switched to a !cast.
First, you need to take Kill Command out of your shot macro. See Manito's Modified 3:2 Steady Shot Macros. Explicitly invoking KC in the macro tends to clip your autoshots. You will see around a 5% dps increase by going to the new macro.
Second, your group makeup was not optimal for a hunter (you had a feral druid and enhancement shaman in the raid but you weren't in their group.)
Third, you should be able to improve your gear easily. Learn to use Cheeky's spreadsheet. Get a Bloodlust Brooch, and the SSO neckpiece. Get Angelista's Revenge. All of these should be dps improvements (even though they'll cost you hit and may require you to regem some other items.)
*edit* forget the SSO neckpiece, you picked Scryers, unfortunately.
I need some opinions here, is the badge bow really as bad as my tests are showing?
So I have the bow from Prince. It has +19 Agil which I love and 2 more AP than the badge bow. I'm 100% survival spec. All the hunters in my guild were telling me I had to get the badge bow that it would make me way more powerful. So I plunk down 150 badges, the last of which I just got last night. So now I have 0 badges.
I put the same scope on the bow as I have on my current bow. I go to Dr. Boom, and I start testing.
First I want to test my old bow, then my new bow. I remove all trinkets with procs, dismiss my pet, etc.
I just cast auto-shot and let it go for 100 shots. I do this on both my old bow and my new bow, and guess what, my new bow is anywhere from 30 to 40 less DPS than my old one. I ran the test a few times.
Man am i pissed.
So WTF gives?
Is (+2AP AND +19Agil) > +9.5 DPS for a survival hunter? It sure seems to be.
Switching back to my Prince bow for now. I'm just incredibly pissed now I'm out 150 badges, it took me forever to get them.
I need some opinions here, is the badge bow really as bad as my tests are showing?
So I have the bow from Prince. It has +19 Agil which I love and 2 more AP than the badge bow. I'm 100% survival spec. All the hunters in my guild were telling me I had to get the badge bow that it would make me way more powerful. So I plunk down 150 badges, the last of which I just got last night. So now I have 0 badges.
I put the same scope on the bow as I have on my current bow. I go to Dr. Boom, and I start testing.
First I want to test my old bow, then my new bow. I remove all trinkets with procs, dismiss my pet, etc.
I just cast auto-shot and let it go for 100 shots. I do this on both my old bow and my new bow, and guess what, my new bow is anywhere from 30 to 40 less DPS than my old one. I ran the test a few times.
Man am i pissed.
So WTF gives?
Is (+2AP AND +19Agil) > +9.5 DPS for a survival hunter? It sure seems to be.
Switching back to my Prince bow for now. I'm just incredibly pissed now I'm out 150 badges, it took me forever to get them.
Any ideas?
In my experience a 7/10/34 build showed some improvement for me when I was using the CoRS with moderate passive haste (55 passive I think + a DST) and an 2:3macro. When I was 0/28/33 a slower bow (ZA, Arp One, Ancient Amani) did far superior dmg with a 1:1.5 macro (swapping to a 1:1 if a haste pot/rapidfire/bloodlust was around). But as they say, your millage may vary.
You have to do something other than a pure auto shot tests for starters. Go fire off some actual shot rotations or you'll never get a good picture of what your raid dps will be. Remember that it's the stuff in between your auto shots that determines how your dps looks. Try a 1:1.5 vs a 2:3 with each and then you can decide if you're pissed or not. For now, don't panic, you might just have to adjust your play to your new xbow speed.
...I'm 100% survival spec....the hunters in my guild were telling me I had to get the badge bow that it would make me way more powerful.
The badge bow is indefinitely better for BM spec. The speed of the badge bow is very nice with Bm talents. SV might be entirely different. Did the other hunters or you take this into account?
Originally Posted by fmellish
I just cast auto-shot and let it go for 100 shots. I do this on both my old bow and my new bow, and guess what, my new bow is anywhere from 30 to 40 less DPS than my old one. I ran the test a few times.
A few things here. First off, as the SV hunter you should be more worried about keeping EW up than your overall damage/dps. That means as much agi and crit as possible. Your damage will always be less than theirs unless they well and truly suck. If you want to dance at the top of the damage charts you gotta put on those Beastmaster shoes.
Secondly, I'm going to assume that you don't normal raid by casting autoshot and then wander off to make a sandwich. Why would you test you weapons this way? Dr. Boom can be a decent comparative test between weapons, but if you want anything even closely resembling what your actual dps during raids you're going to have to test as close to raiding as you can. That means using your normal rotations etc.
Secondly, I'm going to assume that you don't normal raid by casting autoshot and then wander off to make a sandwich. Why would you test you weapons this way? Dr. Boom can be a decent comparative test between weapons, but if you want anything even closely resembling what your actual dps during raids you're going to have to test as close to raiding as you can. That means using your normal rotations etc.
I haven't stumbled upon a rotation macro that is reliable yet.
I weave my shots by hand staring at Quartz the entire time making sure to never squash an autoshot.
As far as my testing methodology, I realize in a raid I will be using a different rotation, but since these bows are the same speed and my passive hasting is the same, the rotation would be the same. Thus as long as the test is the same the result should be reliable. In other words, I'm not trying to get a feeling for what the damage output of the new bow is, I'm simply trying to determine apples to apples which bow will give me more personal DPS. I just want to compare the two weapons to each other.
In reality I did do my max DPS rotation until OOM on each bow and the shot count and shot type percentage was the same, so it was an exact reproduced test using my auto/steady + arcane/multi, and my sunfury bow came out at 1050 DPS to the new bow's 1013 DPS.
So which ever test I've done, assuming the same exact same test on each bow, my old bow always comes out with more DPS.
I'm just miffed, I want my badges back. I wish there was a way in this game to test something before buying it. 150 badges is a lot of badges, imagine buying a $50,000 car without being able to test drive it first, and then when you get it you find out it doesn't work as well as your old car, but oh well you're out the money anyway.
And yes the other hunters knew i was survival, but they are BM and they have never played survival.
Maybe this is why the armory doesn't list the badge bow as an upgrade for me. Could the armory be that smart? I just assumed it was a bug in the armory that was preventing badge bows from showing.
First, you need to take Kill Command out of your shot macro. See Manito's Modified 3:2 Steady Shot Macros. Explicitly invoking KC in the macro tends to clip your autoshots. You will see around a 5% dps increase by going to the new macro.
Second, your group makeup was not optimal for a hunter (you had a feral druid and enhancement shaman in the raid but you weren't in their group.)
Third, you should be able to improve your gear easily. Learn to use Cheeky's spreadsheet. Get a Bloodlust Brooch, and the SSO neckpiece. Get Angelista's Revenge. All of these should be dps improvements (even though they'll cost you hit and may require you to regem some other items.)
*edit* forget the SSO neckpiece, you picked Scryers, unfortunately.
I've debated about Kill Command but the last thing i read was that while it can have an impact on a shot rotation, that the end result was a 5% loss of dps without it. Perhaps i read that wrong and ill go look it over again.
Raid makeup varies a lot however, i would say i rarely get an optimal group. I would still expect more from my own dps regardless.
I use Cheecky's spreadsheet all the time for all gear scouting and choices. The Angelista's revenge is ~1 dps increase and the Bloodlust Brooch was ~7 dps increase. That's about all that I could sqeeze out from gear readily available. As for the neck I would agree and wished they would change the Scryer neck but i doubt that will happen.
Any other input? I welcome good and bad critiques.
I've debated about Kill Command but the last thing i read was that while it can have an impact on a shot rotation, that the end result was a 5% loss of dps without it. Perhaps i read that wrong and ill go look it over again.
Manilo's macro still fires off KC, it just does it in a way that reduces auto shot clipping. Go check it out.
If you really want to improve your dps, get a better group synergy. The dps gains you get from your missing group buffs far exceed what you can get from any single item (with the exception of Thoridal.)
I haven't stumbled upon a rotation macro that is reliable yet.
I weave my shots by hand staring at Quartz the entire time making sure to never squash an autoshot.
As far as my testing methodology, I realize in a raid I will be using a different rotation, but since these bows are the same speed and my passive hasting is the same, the rotation would be the same. Thus as long as the test is the same the result should be reliable. In other words, I'm not trying to get a feeling for what the damage output of the new bow is, I'm simply trying to determine apples to apples which bow will give me more personal DPS. I just want to compare the two weapons to each other.
In reality I did do my max DPS rotation until OOM on each bow and the shot count and shot type percentage was the same, so it was an exact reproduced test using my auto/steady + arcane/multi, and my sunfury bow came out at 1050 DPS to the new bow's 1013 DPS.
So which ever test I've done, assuming the same exact same test on each bow, my old bow always comes out with more DPS.
I'm just miffed, I want my badges back. I wish there was a way in this game to test something before buying it. 150 badges is a lot of badges, imagine buying a $50,000 car without being able to test drive it first, and then when you get it you find out it doesn't work as well as your old car, but oh well you're out the money anyway.
And yes the other hunters knew i was survival, but they are BM and they have never played survival.
Maybe this is why the armory doesn't list the badge bow as an upgrade for me. Could the armory be that smart? I just assumed it was a bug in the armory that was preventing badge bows from showing.
Hmmm. I don't know a good rotation for SV spec, otherwise I'd happily share it with you. Have you tried playng around with Cheeky's spreadsheet? You can model various rotations in there and see what should be optimal. It will also tell you if a specific item will be a dps upgrade or not. That's how I test things.
I understand your frustration with the crossbow. I'd be ticked too. The only thing I can suggest there is to put in a ticket and plead your case.
As far as the armory, I'd assume it was a bug and it's not that smart. The spreadsheet lets you enter nearly everything you can think of: talents, pet training, gear, buffs, etc. I'd rely on that - and common sense.
Best of luck. If you do decide to put in a ticket, please let us know how it goes.
Would anyone be able to help me out with my question about 1 page back? Is it worth dropping over 1 percent crit and a little bit of damage to equip the Valestalker Girdle and get closer to a 1.9 attack speed for Manito's improved macro? Or is 1.96 AS suitable enough at the moment?
Would anyone be able to help me out with my question about 1 page back? Is it worth dropping over 1 percent crit and a little bit of damage to equip the Valestalker Girdle and get closer to a 1.9 attack speed for Manito's improved macro? Or is 1.96 AS suitable enough at the moment?
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Optimal speeds for the 3:2 macro are between 2.1 and 1.9 You're fine staying where you're at.
Optimal speeds for the 3:2 macro are between 2.1 and 1.9 You're fine staying where you're at.
This is my first post and I'm already questioning someones tips... Sorry for that.
But I understood it this way:
The 3:2 macro results in a real 3:2 rotation between 2.1s and 1.9s attack speed. That doesn't mean it's the optimal speed, because the (close to) 1:1 rotation you get when your speed is faster than that is even more effective.
This is my first post and I'm already questioning someones tips... Sorry for that.
But I understood it this way:
The 3:2 macro results in a real 3:2 rotation between 2.1s and 1.9s attack speed. That doesn't mean it's the optimal speed, because the (close to) 1:1 rotation you get when your speed is faster than that is even more effective.
Am I really getting this wrong?
Around 1.9 speed the difference (bar T6S4) between 1:1 and 3:2 is marginal, it is still a small advantage for the 3:2 though. But the mana issue becomes more and more pressing. The same mana could in a 1:1 be used for Multishots etc.
But the reality is, test it yourself. Nobody can say "you will see X DPS increase by going *** rotation". It is highly individual.
I've noticed that every question in this thread is about gearing for dps or shot rotations, but I have a gearing for aspect of the viper question.
So I've been having extreme mana issues on my hunter while raiding, and thought it might be a good idea to get two green "of the falcon" 1h weapons. Is it a good idea to use them for Aspect of the Viper along with 2 +30 int enchants, or should I just use two 1h weapons itemized for dps?
So I've been having extreme mana issues on my hunter while raiding, and thought it might be a good idea to get two green "of the falcon" 1h weapons. Is it a good idea to use them for Aspect of the Viper along with 2 +30 int enchants, or should I just use two 1h weapons itemized for dps?
Interesting question.
I think the precise answer will depend on your gear as to how much more Int you need to acheive the required mana regen.
Anecdotally however, for my self I picked up two epic daggers with DPS stats on and put the +30 Intellect Enchant on them.
If I need to switch to AotV these daggers are equipped and I can continue a Steady Shot/KC rotation until the next pot timer is up.
Ensure, of course, that your using all mana supplements possible; Mana Oil is obvious, but many in my guild had forgotten Demonic Runes existed.
Around 1.9 speed the difference (bar T6S4) between 1:1 and 3:2 is marginal, it is still a small advantage for the 3:2 though. But the mana issue becomes more and more pressing. The same mana could in a 1:1 be used for Multishots etc.
But the reality is, test it yourself. Nobody can say "you will see X DPS increase by going *** rotation". It is highly individual.
But the question I meant to ask isn't "Which rotation is better?" but "Isn't more haste always better?" (Of course by not sacrificing no more other stats than equal)
Im using Badge bow with 105 haste rating and using 3:2 macro, with no BL throughout the whole fight
coz shamans are normally rotated to melee group for multiple BLs
Question.
How should i use my rapid fire, drums, haste pot in the right order without clipping too much autoshots and decreasing my dps?
On my last brut kill, i managed only 1988dps with 1 burn
This is how i start off normally for brut.
1. Pop BW/Rapid fire/Haste pot at the same time
2. Drum after rapid fire ends.
3. Repeat.
Should i use haste pot or drum with rapid fire? or not use pot/drum at all with rapid fire?
And is it bad to pop rapid fire with aspect of the hawk procced?
Im using Badge bow with 105 haste rating and using 3:2 macro, with no BL throughout the whole fight
coz shamans are normally rotated to melee group for multiple BLs
Question.
How should i use my rapid fire, drums, haste pot in the right order without clipping too much autoshots and decreasing my dps?
On my last brut kill, i managed only 1988dps with 1 burn
This is how i start off normally for brut.
1. Pop BW/Rapid fire/Haste pot at the same time
2. Drum after rapid fire ends.
3. Repeat.
Should i use haste pot or drum with rapid fire? or not use pot/drum at all with rapid fire?
And is it bad to pop rapid fire with aspect of the hawk procced?
Any high dps hunter please help
I really dont meet the "high dps hunter" criteria, but any haste you use that puts you under 1.5 attack speed is excess. You are already running roughly 1.9 attack speed (I am assuming BM?), so basically any of your hasted effects are going to drop you into a tight 1:1.
Its my experience as a 1.93 attack speed hunter (78 haste) that allowing one haste effect at a time, and attempting to maximize the total amount of time under haste is the most beneficial. Rapid fire plus IAOTH proc is going to not utilize all the haste effects you are applying. When this happens, I would wait until IAOTH drops off and then use RF right after.
Hi i was looking for some help with my DPS, i think I'm capable/geared to do more DPS then I'm currently doing(mainly on Brutallus, but other fights as well). I'm BM 41/20, my attack speed is 1.96 and use this DPS macro
I always have horrible group makeups though since im THE ONLY hunter ever in the raid.. Its usually a resto shammy, mages, locks pallys etc. And me. With NO benefit for my dps. We don't have a raiding Ret pally either so please don't suggest better group makeups etc..
Is there a better macro? An old guildie gave me this 1 after i accidentally deleted my old 3;2 macro.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
When DST proc, how i can switch? My doubts are all about macro's reset.
The "reset=1.62" has nothing to do with how the macro functions when hitting it or if the haste changes due to DST. Changing this to 2.0, 1.0, 3.5 or any other number won't change a thing. The "reset=xxx" portion of the macro just resets the macro back to the beginning of the macro if you do use it for xxx amount of seconds.
I really dont meet the "high dps hunter" criteria, but any haste you use that puts you under 1.5 attack speed is excess. You are already running roughly 1.9 attack speed (I am assuming BM?), so basically any of your hasted effects are going to drop you into a tight 1:1.
Its my experience as a 1.93 attack speed hunter (78 haste) that allowing one haste effect at a time, and attempting to maximize the total amount of time under haste is the most beneficial. Rapid fire plus IAOTH proc is going to not utilize all the haste effects you are applying. When this happens, I would wait until IAOTH drops off and then use RF right after.
with rapidfire, my autospeed goes to 1.36
with drums and hastpot it goes to 1.48
so to maxmise my dps, i shouldnt use rapidfire with beastial wrath?
I was wondering if anyone could recommend a macro to get the most damage out of being survival. My hunter Krakkle on Bladefist has semi-decent gear but i somehow get out dps'd by ret paladins in greens, which kinda kills my WoW ego haha. I know survival is the "raid spec" but I was told that you're supposed to get crazy dps out of it too, and I'm just not seeing it. Any advice would be super, thanks.
06/02/08, 12:03 PM
