Tazlin,

If that were true, wouldn't everyone be having the same problem? I think there is a problem with your macro, or, perhaps you play with extremely high latency?

it looks like the without CC present macro i posted that i'm using is firing in this order

steady
auto
steady
auto
arcane
auto
multi
auto---delay here
auto---delay here
steady
auto
steady
auto


looks like it's clipping, sure dps was alot higher than just steady/auto, but how can i correct the clipping?

macro should be

steady
auto
steady
auto
random multi-shot or arcane
and then just resume with those when they are off cooldown right?

Just use a macro like

/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot

And weave in arcane and multi by hand. Cast sequence macros more often than not lower your DPS.

So here's a quick question, and one that can't be answered by Cheeky's spreadsheet. A hunter pal and I have been discussing a bit of theorycraft the past few days and we are trying to figure out our best trinket setup for the highest possible dps on fights such as brutallus. He and I are in different guilds and he has a tick better gear than I do (he has 3 all three SWP pieces whereas I only have the bracers (darn our zero-sum dkp)). Also, in his group, he has a solid chain of drums the entire 6 minutes of the fight whereas in my group, I am the only drum-giver. He is able to maintain 2700-2800 dps on Brut while I maintain 2650-2750 dps.

We have virtually every hunter trinket you can get besides the swp one (we are only to twins, they have just killed twins) so our combos vary fight to fight depending on how much time we actually have to stand and shoot (like brut) and how often we need to run around (for fights such as felmyst). We know that there is such a thing as haste cap, and in my case (using badge xbow (he uses the twins bow)), I can cap with a drum/rapid fire, and I get INCREDIBLY close with a drum/quick shot proc. He, on the other hand, has a slower attack speed and doesn't come as close to cap in the same situations that I do, but he is still close enough. We are wondering if, with solid drums, and almost constant quick shots up, is dst wasted? Or, if dst's haste is NOT wasted (it procs 11 times per brut fight), would madness benefit us more, or would berserker's call?

The way I see it, being that I only have one drum, and after that drum, I pop a haste pot, I still have about 80 seconds until my drum is back up...that is 80 seconds that I only have a quick shot (if it procs) to be hasted. It is also 80 seconds for dst to proc and in that 80 seconds, it can proc potentially 3 times, adding 30 seconds of solid haste (20x3 = 60 seconds on CD and 10 x 3 being the 30 seconds hasted (it would still be on CD as I popped my drum)). For the next 30 seconds of drum + quick shots, I could get only 1 dst proc in (10 seconds left over for the CD of dst, 10 seconds for it being up, 20 seconds for another CD), so that would be 4 dst procs per round of drums x roughly three rounds of that (though only 3 dst procs in the last round because he dies). Of those 4 procs, only one would be wasted, right? So of the 11 possible dst procs, 8 would be used, three wouldn't be. On top of that, Madness procs roughly 13 times per fight and that doesn't count overlaps so it's safe to bet that it is an almost constant buff which, at my gear level, is about 250-280 attack power bonus (yes, it's armor pen). Berserker's call on the other hand is 360 attack power every 2 minutes. So does the 280 constant attack power with 8 useful dst procs outweigh 360 x 3 attack power with 8 useful procs? Or would a madness/berker's combo be better than any combo with dst? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated Hunter Community, and thank you in advance.

I hate to ask this since the effective "haste caps" have been discussed thoroughly already.

I know that extra haste isn't wasted... it's just doesn't provide as much of a benefit after the 'cap'. What I don't understand about what I just said is that haste lets you shoot faster ALL the time rather than waiting for procs or cooldowns. with 151 haste for example and the chicken bow, quickshots alone will put me at 1.67 attack speed which is about as fast as you're gonna ever shoot. Isn't this a good thing? It basically means that any substantial haste proc (DST, QS, Haste pots, abacus, Heroism) does the same job as rapid fire (seeing as rapid fire puts you at you max shooting speed almost regardless of your setup).

To me I'd think this is a very advantageous situation to be in seeing as you're shooting a 4:3 or 5:4 rotation unhasted anyways.

So the questions are:

A) Does the stat tradeoff between haste and other stats (agi, crit, etc.) really make that much of a difference (seeing as it's hard to model the value of haste in cheeky's).

B) Do you really make up SO much dps when blowing your cooldowns that its better to shoot slower so that your rapid fire isn't as "wasted" (i.e. you'd be hitting harded with the extra agi/crit/ap you could have and RF would still take you to ~1.6 or 1.7).

again, sorry to beat a dead horse here

That was not a quick question, and is better answered by a combat simulator, which as far as I know does not exist. Your rough math is also hardly accurate, 13 Madness procs is an uptime of 130 seconds, in a 6 minute fight, so it's hardly up all the time.

You won't be able to model it as well as your trying, due mostly to RNG.

I think the big issue is that if you're at that fast of an attack speed, seeing haste procs, like Rapid Fire, Heroism, Haste Pots, etc, has a much higher chance of messing up your shot rotation. From what I understand, Steady Shot doesn't scale with Haste quite the same as Auto Shot does. It is possible to get to a point where your auto shots are coming faster than your steadies can, thus screwing up your rotation pretty badly. (The worst I've seen for myself is chaining three autos or three steadies, but I'm only running 84 haste with the Crossbow and have ~150ms latency)

And as to the stat trade-off question, that tends to depend on the piece of gear in question. I personally dislike the haste gear from BT/MH because it's just not enough to make up for the weaker stats on those peices. For example: I would not equip the haste belt over Don Alejandro's simply because Don Alejandro's blows it out of the water. (At least that's what I think. ^^; )

You probably want to use berserker's call as your first trinket in almost any situation if you stack it with tbw.

As for madness vs DST, it's tougher to decide between. The higher your armor pen, the higher the value of madness becomes, although I can't say for sure if it every comes out above DST as I don't have one of my own to play with.

Hey all, I'm a novice at the theorycrafting side of things and am just getting my head around timings, shot rotations etc.

I'm currently using a 2.9 speed bow, which is reduced to 2.1 speed with my talents, quiver etc.

I can crack the shot rotation fine with steady>auto>steady>auto etc, but everything goes peetong when I try and incorporate any other specials into this. Also I am prone to the odd bit of lag, graphical, as my PC isnt the greatest.

I'm using a macro given to me by my old class leader:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=1 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pet, dead] null; [target=pet, noexists] null; Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

and tbh, I think its absolutely awful.

When kill command procs, it messes up any timing that you had.

I want a shot rotation macro that allows me to spam it, with it firing off hefty DPS, either auto>steady and arcane, or auto>steady and multi etc. is there a way of making a macro to do this?

Also, whats the best way of incorporating kill command into my rotations?

Lastly, when rapid fire / haste trinkets are used, should I just practice catching the timings right?

#showtooltip
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

I think that should work a lot better.

Hey guys. Before I pose my question,I'd like to mention that though I love and respect the spreadsheet, I'm not currently set up to use it. Please keep that in mind if you reply.

I've seen it discussed that Darkmoon Card: Crusade is one of the better hunter trinkets. I'm curious about how it stacks up with my current setup (DST and Berserkers Call)

I've searched for an answer to this, and can't seem to find one without dropping another $40 for another copy of excel. Any help would be much appreciated.

I just replaced a Kara ring with Angelista's Revenge last night, and it brought me well below the hit cap. I'm noticing that a lot of the post-Kara gear does not have any hit, so I'd just like to ask what I'm supposed to do about it?

- Gem for +hit in every slot?

- Keep pieces with inferior stats simply because they have +hit?

- Play below the hit cap? How far below is acceptable?


Currently I have 129 hit with two 8 +hit gems; I could get more +hit gems but at this point I'd have to start mismatching socket colours and overwriting Delicates.

Don't fret about not quite hitcapping.

You can also look for gear upgrades with hit. DPS upgrades should be easy to find if you replace PvP gear with PvE gear. Check out Nyn'jah Tabi Boots (Badges) or Belt of Deep Shadow (Nether Vortexes) for +hit PvP->PvE upgrades.

You can eat +20 Hit Rating food to help make up the difference until you get gear with more HR on it.

Got some time before I head out so I figured I'd post

Well this is a WWS of my BT the other day, just wondering if there would be any improvements I should work on.

(BTW: I was BM that night, I'm nomally survival but figured I'd get a change of pace since we were on farm bosses. I had 95 hit which again was meant for my survival spec, however we do raid with a boomkin so that 3% from hit will get me hit capped as BM.. assuming she kept it up )


WWS Loading...

I've answered a bit of your question in another thread, though I did it with far less words.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17999-h...11/#post831453

See the thread linked, and then the last post in the thread too. Unless you input it manually, Cheeky's doesn't account for using trinkets at the same time as cooldowns, however it's commonly accepted that Berserker's Call with TBW is the best combo. With a fast weapon DST and the Sunwell trinket become null. Madness is very very good. If you are using an EA rogue, or boomkin, then just make sure you're not going over hit/armor pen caps.

It's not a very conclusive test. For an accurate response we would need to see WWS. Armory links to the gear setups they were using would help a lot too, but no conclusion can be drawn w/o WWS. It could be that hunter #2 has a less efficient shot rotation, lag, dumb pet, or just poor RNG. I assume you do not raid with a boomkin.

My guild raids with a boomkin 90% of the time so I socket for crit over hit. On the few times that he's not there, I don't change my gear any. The reality is that 1% hit is approximately equal to 1% crit, but most hunters swear on hit because it shows a minute mathematical gain in DPS and because nobody likes to see a "Miss" popping up on the scrolling combat text.

Thanks Kam.. I will post WWS as soon as they posted...
I am looking for all ways in to increase DPS and my shot rotation might be the issue.
I have tried popular macros and good old timing, but didnt see HUGE changes either method.

Honestly Dc, at your level of progression, I wouldn't worry about hit anyway. I can tell you that I have 111 hit rating myself and on brutallus get 2700 dps. Another guy who socketed hit and caps only gets about 2400. Also, a good hunter friend of mine in a different guild with slightly better gear, but with only 96 hit gets about 2900 dps on brutallus. In t5 content, hit was like instant dps increase, but in BT, hyjal, and SWP, it isn't as much of an issue.

And for someone without access to Madness, would the card/BC combo be preferable to to dst/bc?

Highly unlikely. Questions like these really shouldn't be so common. Use the spreadsheet.

Either way, there is no way you're seeing 100% uptime. From experience, Proc Mechanics, and the modeling in Cheeky's spreadsheet you'll never see close to 100% uptime.